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SNP rejects Labour offer over police pensions



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Published Date: 26 August 2008
By Angus Howarth
THE SNP and Labour remain at odds over police pensions after an apparent olive branch from the Westminster government.
Angela Eagle, the transport minister, yesterday welcomed a "positive" proposal from Scottish Labour under which London would consider extra funding if the police pensions system was reformed.

But Kenny MacAskill, the justice secretary, said re
form was already under discussion and Ms Eagle's offer did not address the extra cost of pension commutation and the need for equal treatment by the Treasury for Scotland's police and firefighters.

The exchanges were the latest in a row in which the SNP has accused Westminster of short-changing police.

UK-wide changes to pensions for police, firefighters and rescue services enable retiring officers to convert a larger part of their pension into a lump-sum payment.

The SNP has accused the Treasury of refusing to provide the funds to pay for this, but Labour has called on the SNP to pay up, accusing it of failing to face its responsibilities in government.

Pauline McNeill, a Labour MSP, also called for payments to police pensions to be removed from operational budgets and ring-fenced.

She said: "I have asked the UK government to recognise that if we reform our pensions finance system, then they should be prepared to provide additional funding to help meet the cost of our obligations."

But Mr MacAskill said: "This is a clear-cut case of spending rising in England and Wales in a devolved area due to a decision taken by the UK government, and thus Scotland should receive its fair share of extra funding."



The full article contains 271 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 26 August 2008 8:11 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 26/08/2008 00:27:16
Westminster, PAY UP and stop attacking our police.
2

tommy M,

26/08/2008 08:21:24
I AGREE! Pay up you scum! Just another example of Westminster yet again trying to crush Scotland into the ground.

We won't be crushed again.
3

MacGillicuddy,

26/08/2008 08:38:01
A clear-cut case of Westmonster Liebour short-changing Scotland yet again.
4

mr angry,

ayrshire 26/08/2008 08:41:41
This paper goes from bad to worse, the headline and slant to this are incredible, a 5 year old could work out that it is Westminster that is in the wrong and that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the SNP. labour trying to shortchange Scotland yet again and their lapdogs in Scotland trying to lie about the consequences.
5

,

26/08/2008 08:50:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

,

26/08/2008 08:56:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

Linda,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 09:02:57
Scotsman shoulds be renamed The North Briton as its bias is now beyond a joke.
8

Nikostratos,

26/08/2008 09:10:20
Dear Scotsman if you could plese crank up the anti snp bias a tad more we might see the end of cybernat activity. As they buzz off and build a new nest in far away remote place...siberia perhaps?
9

Nikostratos,

26/08/2008 09:11:02
#8 please...please...please
10

Alan B,

26/08/2008 09:12:54
Surely police employment conditions should be a devolved matter. Then this issue would not arise.

If devolution is to continue, then we really have to sort out the mess labour made of it.
11

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 26/08/2008 09:36:24
Is this blackmail or coercion?

Do things as we want, and you might get some money!

How Labour.

How Westminster.

How unionist.
12

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 09:46:34
I noticed in yesterday's 'Opinion' section, a 'Bury Free Press' journo having to make a grovelling apology to the NHS for a misleading headline, using the word "ailing" in connection with NHS 24. He admitted it was wrong, claiming it fell short of the Hootsman's " normally high standards".

Normally high standards? My Aunt Fannie!! Look at this headline! And yesterday's one about Chris Hoy "refusing" to endorse Sean Connery's message. Chris Hoy didn't even allude to Sean Connery, or his "message".

It saddens me to say this, but the sooner this rag is in foreign ownership the better. We might then get some balance, or maybe even real journalism.

My cousin Ananda'll sort this turgid, torpid rag out!
Sooner the better. So long JP. Maybe you could buy yourselves a wee island somewhere like your predecessors, the Barclays. Then you can cack handedly distort reality till your blue in the face.
13

Jwil,

26/08/2008 09:54:20
When are they going to get rid of that annoying advert that obliterates half the screen every time you get into this site, with no means of removing it before it decides to remove itself. It makes me hate the advertising company who place it (whoever they are) and this newspaper.
14

frank mcbride,

lusitania 26/08/2008 10:04:40
The SG removes "ring fencing" of LA monies, therefore creating more democratic choice and accountability.

NuLabour does not like democratic choice and accountability, therefore Westminster NuLabour refuses to release monies rightfully due to Scotland.

NuLabour solution: reintroduce "ring fencing" and Westminster will release the monies rightfully due to Scotland.

Meanwhile, have the JP print lies about the real situation; NuLabour withholds monies legitimately due to Scotland.
15

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 10:10:33
#11 ochone,Sauchie, Clack's 26/08/2008 09:36:24
"Is this blackmail or coercion?

Do things as we want, and you might get some money!"

That's what Broon tried with the DUP in Stormont, with their £200 million bung. And that's turned to keech already.

This is unbridled hatred. Desperate grubbing destructive tactics, with Broon's excremental fingerprints all over it. Like everything else he touches now. He's got this anti Midas touch.
Unionists be warned. Best keep him away from that union flag he's so fond of wrapping himself in. It just gets everywhere that stuff.
16

Senga Jean,

26/08/2008 10:18:07
Why are Police Pensions a problem.? ANSWER. The British Empire was short of money so did not invest the 11% of salary police pay for their pensions. No capital fund so another Union Dividend. The money must come from the British Treasury because they "liberated" it from tha hands of the poor police and firemen. ANOTHER BRITISH DISGRACE.
17

subrosa,

26/08/2008 10:57:47
# 16

It wasn't short of money Senga Jean. It just decided to throw it all at supporting the US and their flawed actions in Iraq and Afgahnistan. Unfortunately for our military in these theatres it didn't throw any their way to ensure their safety. Our military has the worst equipment in Europe.

This government were warned years ago that the 'new' communications system was badly flawed but they still went ahead with it. Now a soldier on the front line is lucky if they can talk to a colleague 20 yards away and the battery life of the telephones is a joke. Soldiers are now instructed to turn off their phones until 'needed' in order to save battery life.

Is it any wonder Brown and his cohorts are visibly detested by our troops? After his 'visit' last week to them I doubt if he'll be rushing back. Des Browne hasn't visited for any photo calls recently has he? I've heard he's feeling upset because Brown is ignoring him. Think he's more upset because he'll be losing his ministerial car shortly and dumped on the back benches.

I do hope the SNP government are firm in holding WEstminster to account with the police pensions. John Swinney's doing fine so far and he's tenacious.
18

Climate change is a fraud,

26/08/2008 10:59:48
UKIP rocks!

We'll get you out of the EU and save Scotland from socialism.

Post Office Closures (EU Directives 97/67/EC, 2002/39/EC)

Scrapping weekly bin collections (EU Directive 94/62/EC)
19

morris,

edinburgh 26/08/2008 11:03:51
10
Alan B,
26/08/2008 09:12:54

Whilst that is undoubtedly true ,surely it reinforces the claim that treating Scotland differently when its the SAME parliament at Westminster controlling this,CAN ONLY BE by design and intention and the Justice Secretary would be failing Scotland's Police if he was less than vociferous on this.This is Westminster picking a fight with Edinburgh,another clear example of what Labour claim is invariably their "genius" attempt to camouflage that they are in fact guilty of doing something remarkably similar to where they try to apportion blame!

Devolving any powers to Scotland must of course be accompanied by the funding neccessary to operate the system,or what in fact happens is WESTMINSTER STEALS EVEN MORE MONEY FROM US WHICH SHE HAS NO RIGHT TO HAVE!


Devolution of the purse strings is what we need.
All taxes raised in Scotland being retained in Scotland.
INDEPENDENCE is the only way this can happen.

Labour in Scotland.Your loyalty to Westminster at the expense of the Scottish people is DISGUSTING and so are newspapers/bog rolls which print biased nonsense of course.
WE WILL NOT FORGET THIS!
20

Nikostratos,

26/08/2008 11:04:03
#10 Alan B

"employment conditions should be a devolved matter"

Employment conditions devolved to the arch thatcherite Alex Salmond(we did not mind her economic policies).
Can't see that going down well with the Police service why he could even try to privatise the service.

#14

let the free market decide(in the spirit of Salmond/thatcher) without Government(both Westminster or holyrood) interference Frank.that Democratic enough for you?
21

Nikostratos,

26/08/2008 11:07:15
#19 morris,

"WE WILL NOT FORGET THIS"

Whats that morris another of your threats well what is the consequences gonna be?
22

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 26/08/2008 12:20:51
If these are accurate quotes from Labour MP's and MSP's then it shows they haven't got a clue as to the tangled web of public sector, or for that matter the private sectors pension pension rip off.

Quite candidly they're opening their moths and lettying their bellies rumble.
23

morris,

edinburgh 26/08/2008 14:19:18
21
Nikostratos,
26/08/2008 11:07:15

What ARE the consequences going to be you mean.

Have you not seen the Glasgow East result then? Oh dear.
24

brownlie,

26/08/2008 14:21:07
21Nikos

Obviously, the consequences out-lined by Morris would be that sensible individuals would not vote for Labour.

For goodness sake, Nikos, give up the posting and see if you can tackle a four-piece jig-saw.

Do let us know how you get on.
25

morris,

edinburgh 26/08/2008 14:26:46
24
Thank You.
That is (of course)exactly what I mean,and its obvious to you and I suspect pretty well everybody else also!

26

Alan B,

26/08/2008 14:49:14
#20 Nikostratos

Your childish post tends to indicate you are a labour supporter. It is funny that those that are labour supporters only distinguish themselves on these theads by their lack of insight and intellect compared to all other parties.
27

morris,

edinburgh 26/08/2008 15:10:51
18
Climate change is a fraud,

Are You? Okay You said it!


Scotland is not suffering from Socialism.She suffers from a lack of it at the hands of a Tory government in Westmonster,soon to be replaced by another Tory government at Westmonster.The only difference is this incoming one makes no pretence about what they want.
The current Tory government tells fairy tories!
Hans Christian Broon needs to start packing!
28

morris,

edinburgh 26/08/2008 15:20:57
22
Buckpool Loon,
Cheshire 26/08/2008 12:20:51

I am surpised that no one has yet said it so I will!

WELL SAID SIR

No argument there .
29

Alan B,

26/08/2008 15:23:33
#morris

How do you come to the conclusion that scotland suffers from a lack of socialism? How would socialism (proper socialism, ie the state owning the means of production) help scotland.

Scotland suffers from slow economic growth and a lack of democractic accountability. Independence would sort out the democractic issues. But how would a scottish government creating a car company or talking control of all other industries solve anything for scotland.
30

brownlie,

26/08/2008 15:37:59
29 Alan B

How would socialism help Scotland?

A form of socialism that owned, for example, the energy companies would ensure, firstly, that any profits (which you must admit are enormous) would be public money for re-investment and, secondly, that price rises would be controlled.

The selling on these companies, just like Labour's PFI, were short-term gains and long-term losses.
31

Alan B,

26/08/2008 16:03:51
#brownlie

I am talking about socialism proper. Not social democracy (higher taxed capitalism) and not some public utilities in the hands of the state.

Having a nationalised electricity and gas company would not turn scotland into a socialist economy.

Socialism is where the most of industry is owned by the government/state. A mixed economy is where large companies/industries are owned by the state and you have others in the private sector. The uk had a mixed economy in the 70s. Although the labour party at the time was trying to destroy the private sector to allow more to be moved to the state as it tried to create a socialist uk. (eg Polcies like 83% taxation and an effective 98% taxation).

As i see it the real argument is how to manage a capitalist country. ie how much taxation and its purpose, how much international competition, the amount and type of employment regulation, competition policy and ownership of those companies.

There is then areas for debate round ownership of public utilities like energy companies, rail, water. But having them nationalised is not anywhere near socialism.
32

brownlie,

26/08/2008 16:09:04
31 Alan B

Alan, I did say a form of socialism. You can tell from my usual nonsensical posts that I am no economist but it seems to me that a short-term expediency measure to sell off national assets, especially at cut-rate prices, is not a sensible move.
33

The Spook in Leith,

26/08/2008 17:02:17
So Westminster is picking a fight with the Scottish Gov again!! how immature can you get ? I wish we could have a general election soon coz it would remove some of the old dead wood.
34

,

26/08/2008 17:24:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
35

The Dark Side,

26/08/2008 17:38:57
#34: who's this McNeill female you allude to and what has someone been doing to her to make her scream her head off? Come to that, need I ask why the Scotsman removed your post?
36

,

26/08/2008 17:44:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

pehman,

sussex 26/08/2008 17:55:08

Angela Eagle, the transport minister, yesterday welcomed a "positive" proposal from Scottish Labour under which London would consider extra funding if the police pensions system was reformed


A'm I missing something here ?

Since WHEN, did a transport minister make policy decisions on police pay ?

And we have to bear in mind that w/minster gave the police their word last year on a pay deal, and then renagaded on it. So whats to stop them doing the same to a deal with Holyrood ?


38

Calvinist,

26/08/2008 21:07:24
Excuse me, but isn't SNP apparatchik and well-known political chameleon, George Kerevan a deputy editor of the Scotsman? Does this mean that the SNP are criticising themselves? Well there's a novel idea.
39

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 00:30:00
6. How are the pro-independence papers doing?

What are they called again?

You also neglect to mention that the papers that are INCREASING their circulation are the Daily Mail, The Sun and The Times; all UK, unionist and London-based publications.

Strange that.
40

Highland Mighty©,

27/08/2008 00:35:39
29. "Scotland suffers from slow economic growth..."

Scotland's economy grew on average at 4-5% a year between 1994 and 2006.

You were saying?
41

Brian Hill,

27/08/2008 02:34:48
The Scotsman, SOS and Evening News were valued at £160 million a couple of months ago (that figure may have slipped somewhat by now.)

Several companies were showing an interest including our old friend, Brian Soutar. Now wouldn't that be something. We would at least get a fair crack of the whip if Soutar took the paper over.

At which point I would begin buying it again after an absence of about 15 years (since Andrew Neil's days or it may even have been Linklater.)

No doubt 10s of thousands of other Scots would do the same.
42

stracathro,

27/08/2008 13:59:06
#39 highland mighty

yeah there is no scottish media - ever wondered why?

they've got a tight grip on scotland and they can't afford to lose it.

what are you going to do when we scots are independent & we do get our own media.
43

A Bobby,

Scotland 27/08/2008 16:07:29
The SNP made a song and dance about how fair they were giving us what amounted to an extra £200 per year. Great, it was appreciated, albeit, you could see they were making political gain from it and couldn't care less about the Police.

Some officers were converted to the SNP cause because of this, including the majority of the Federation office bearers who told us, 'you can trust the SNP, lets have a Scottish PNB, we will be tons better off.' Dooh, meanwhile, they left their brains in the bar the Peebles Hydro or the many Forces hospitality suites which echo to the sound of clinking glasses!

Now when the crunch time comes to paying loyal, hard working officers of 30 years, their pensions, the SNP have faultered. Why can't they say, 'hey boys, we will pay you at some point, but need to sort out the funding?' Is that too simplistic or is their aim to get the rank and file up in arms first? After all, they had it in their power to give us the £200! Mind you that sort of money is cheap in comparison to 20k plus.

Personally, I don't believe Labour or the SNP. They are all the best of buddies off screen. Both are trying to make political capital out of the situation. Both couldn't care less about the officers.

Take away our pension for which we pay for at 11% and you have a 'job' that no body would want. Despite the SNP trying to retain officers and recruit a 1000 more, what a load of old tosh. They haven't done anything that would induce me to stay on. Whats the point in getting your lump sum, which won't be as much as the English counter parts, not getting your pension, but getting the same wage for the same job, for the same shifts? Even the thickest of us can work out thats not a good deal, so hardly surprsing that it has a pick up rate of less than 3%.

Wake up Scotland, take a reality check!

 

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