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Salmond in line of fire as new MP calls Kalashnikov critics 'racist'



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Published Date: 12 September 2008
By HAMISH MACDONELL
Scottish Political Editor
ALEX Salmond was drawn into an embarrassing racism row yesterday involving his newest MP and a suspended councillor.

Glasgow councillor Jahangir Hanif was suspended from the SNP last month after video footage emerged showing him firing a Kalashnikov assault rifle in Pakistan and inviting his children to do the same.

Mr Hanif apologised for his actions and was
suspended for two months by party managers.

But the controversy over the so-called "Kalashnikov councillor" was re-ignited by John Mason, the new SNP MP for Glasgow East, yesterday.

Despite the widespread criticism of the councillor's actions, Mr Mason defended Mr Hanif and accused his critics of being both "racist" and "colonial".

The new MP said: "The repeated attacks on the SNP's Councillor Hanif are coming across as thinly disguised racism. Many countries in the world allow guns to be used freely."

He also said: "While being opposed to freely available guns, including airguns, in Scotland, I totally support the right of other countries to take a different view.

"Once we start implying other countries are second-rate because they have a different opinion from us, we are surely being racist."

The MP also said he thought the two-month suspension was "a bit severe".

Labour used Mr Mason's comments to draw the First Minister into the row, claiming it was outrageous to brand every critic of the councillor a "racist".

Cathy Jamieson, the acting leader of the Scottish Labour leader, used First Minister's Questions to demand an apology from Mr Salmond for Mr Mason's comments.

Ms Jamieson also quoted from a letter sent by the councillor's daughter to Mr Salmond in which she accused the First Minister of taking the issue lightly. Mr Salmond replied: "I don't accept that the matter has been taken lightly by the SNP.

"Suspension from a political party is a serious matter. Councillor Hanif's actions have been condemned by the party as being extremely unwise."

The First Minister suggested the Labour Party was trying to seek party advantage through "what somebody might have said about somebody". And he accused Ms Jamieson of raising "internal party matters" rather than First Ministerial issues.

Ms Jamieson then asked: "Could I ask the First Minister if he agrees with his colleague John Mason who has branded critics of the SNP councillor as racist?"

"No", he replied.

BACKGROUND

JAHANGIR Hanif acquired the nickname 'Councillor Kalashnikov' from the press early last month when extraordinary video footage emerged of the councillor firing an assault weapon on a range in Pakistan.

The 46-year-old Glasgow councillor had taken five of his six children into the mountainous border region of Kashmir two years ago to shoot the AK-47.

He then let his children fire the assault rifle.

Mr Hanif's daughter, Noor, said: "We were taken in a van with blacked-out windows. We were shown how to use the gun. We all shot the gun."







The full article contains 495 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 September 2008 11:05 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

Steve,

Bo'ness 12/09/2008 00:01:09
Cathy... go home!
2

S'me,

Edinburgh 12/09/2008 00:13:36
The sad thing is... there's more to come...
3

subrosa,

12/09/2008 00:29:17
For Cathy Jamieson to question the First Minister on a matter of internal SNP politics is beyond the pale for FMQs.

Hopefully someone in the SNP will raise the question of the 'ill' ex MP for Glasgow east's expenses for using his front room as an office at the price of £500.000 to the taxpayer.
4

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 12/09/2008 00:30:46
Mason was 100% correct. Labour are being racist.
5

subrosa,

12/09/2008 00:30:59
'The 46-year-old Glasgow councillor had taken five of his six children into the mountainous border region of Kashmir two years ago to shoot the AK-47.'

Lies. The person concerned was NOT a councillor when the incident happened. I shan't go on ...
6

frank mcbride,

lusitania 12/09/2008 00:40:35
#2, CG.

That idiot'll be the candidate that won the greatest number of votes of any in the 2007 Local Elections. The idiot who overturned the 3rd biggest Unionist majority in Scotland.

Pray tell, what's your claim to fame? Was it voting Unionist in Stirling?

#3, S'me.

You're so right. Isn't it wonderful!!!!!
7

Lobeydoser,

12/09/2008 00:41:20
Did the councillor meet any other Brits, honing their skills with AK-47 assault rifles, in the Kashmir mountains?
8

Fifi la Bonbon,

12/09/2008 00:41:30
Mister Mason is an odd wee fellow and no mistake.

Subrosa is quite correct to say that Cllr Kalashnikov was not a Councillor when he allowed himself to be filmed taking his children off to a "camp" in the lawless badlands of Pakistan and introduced his children to the delights of the AK-47 automatic rifle. He was merely an SNP Prospective Parliamentary Candidate, and landlord.

Facts are important, aren't they!
9

Fifi la Bonbon,

12/09/2008 00:46:14
#8 - if Cllr Kalashnikov is an undercover asset in the fight against terrorism, you wouldn't expect him to want his cover blown? Mind you, it's such an unlikely identity he would make the perfect spy.
10

frank mcbride,

lusitania 12/09/2008 01:16:28
# 11, CG.

As erudite as ever, I see.

BTW, what is your claim to fame? Are you Dozy?
11

james 1st,

hamilton nz 12/09/2008 01:17:41
frankly this man was on a gun range in pakistan, i dont see any problem with his actions.
my opinion would be different of course if he had been out in glasgow green.
had he been at a sitting of parliament in westminster many of his critics might have been cheering
minor matter not worth all the attention that its been given
12

Steve Real,

Columbia/USA 12/09/2008 01:21:25
Is this what Scotland the Brave has become?
This is not the Scotland that I love.
Oh no.
No sir.
13

Fifi la Bonbon,

12/09/2008 01:27:08
Look, everyone, at #14 - somebody from the USA is upset about something!
14

Embra Don,

12/09/2008 01:32:05
There seems to be a bit of a parallel with the Sara Palin - photographed firing an automatic weapon in Kuwait. She had to get a passport for the trip, never having previously been abroad. Isn't strange how it was a photo opportunity for her - reinforcing her credentials as an all American mom.
15

Embra Don,

12/09/2008 01:41:37
Still no mention in the Scotsman of Henry McLeish's correspondence with the treasury re the benefits with-held over personal care. Mind you it probably doesn't qualify as news as labour would not have issued a press release on the subject. Sad really - this used to be a national newspaper rather than a new labour organ.
The newsnicht piece is here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00dcqt0/
16

Scullion,

Canada 12/09/2008 01:50:14
Let's make this a positive story e.g. at least he let his daughter fire the weapon so that shows a respect for women or at least he wasn't shrinkiing heads in New Guineau.
17

Royster,

12/09/2008 03:04:41
#6. Well that's alright then.
18

karinxxx,

12/09/2008 04:48:36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMi776jah1w

19

overton,

balmedie 12/09/2008 04:49:10
Not sure what the problem is with the gentleman firing a Kalashnikov - can someone enlighten me on that one?

It should be everyone's concern though, that Mr Hanif went to an Al Quaeda training camp to fire it.
20

Richardinho,

12/09/2008 04:52:37
'frankly this man was on a gun range in pakistan, i dont see any problem with his actions.'

Exactly-it's not as if he was firing at anyone!
We seem to be expected to be particularly outraged over the type of gun he was using-as if that has any relevance whatsover!
No one would bat an eyelid over some tory going out shooting defenseless animals on the other hand.

Talk about a lot of fuss over nothing.
21

jarmon,

america 12/09/2008 05:20:46
#16-why are so many posters anti american? Sure a lot of them can come across as a bozo. But please consider that those who post here have roots to scotland.My family had to flee for their lives after culloden,and they came here.And they fought and bled fighting the english in the revolution.Some of my family have been lucky enough to go visit the home castle on the isle of mull.These american posters probably see y'all as long lost cousins.They actually like you guys.In reading these posts i've come to see the scots think for themselves and have a great wit.Even those i may not agree with i respect.
22

Colin Wilson,

12/09/2008 06:59:48
"Once we start implying other countries are second-rate because they have a different opinion from us, we are surely being racist."

As is so often the case people are being accused of racism, not for views they've actually expressed, but for views that someone else has invented for them. We see the same tendency all the time in these columns.

I don't know whether John Mason has noticed, but it's normal for countries to challenge each other over different views they take about different issues. If Russia is challenged over its behaviour in Georgia, is that anti-Russian racism? Surely not. Alex Salmond needs to have a quiet word with him.
23

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 12/09/2008 07:25:31
When will Salmond come clean and condemn the lunatics in his party? Or does he agree with them?
24

subrosa,

12/09/2008 07:26:08
#9.

'Subrosa is quite correct to say that Cllr Kalashnikov was not a Councillor when he allowed himself to be filmed taking his children off to a "camp" in the lawless badlands of Pakistan and introduced his children to the delights of the AK-47 automatic rifle. He was merely an SNP Prospective Parliamentary Candidate, and landlord.

Facts are important, aren't they!'

Indeed they are! What has the fact that the man is a landlord to do with this?

I'm surprised at you not recognising that this nothing to do with guns and Pakistan. This is to do with the bitter breakup of a marriage. It would seem his wife has supporters who have good connections to get so much publicity. Why has she taken over 2 years to bring this to the attention of the SNP and the public? She must have been aware of the incident and initially approved of it.

Her use of her children is a disgrace and more or less guaranteed to cause them problems in later life. I've seen so many adults badly affected emotionally because they were coerced by a parent into humiliating the other parent. As for the husband he should resign. He no longer has the respect of the public and therefore has no authority.
25

an interested party,

12/09/2008 07:34:20
what next ? a future cooncilor goes to Germany and does 120 mph on the autobahn and get derided for it cause our speed limit is 70

26

steve 1511,

aberdeen 12/09/2008 07:34:20
why would alec our great leader apologies for the actions of an m p from a different parliament? does cathy the eejit not realise there is a difference,why are liebour not condemning shotgun owning msp
27

Conan the Librarian™,

12/09/2008 07:57:18
29
When the Hootsmon goes out of business?
28

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/09/2008 08:19:42
Noor Hanif’s letter to Alex Salmond says that their father took them to Durra, which she describes as being in the “lawless area” and says that she has read that it is “the world’s largest illegal gun market”.

She’s right. Durra is in the FATA (tribal region) near the Afghan border. The literacy rate is 17%. Only one in thirty girls receives education. Each doctor serves 7,700 citizens. Only 43% of people have access to clean drinking water.

Terrorists operate with virtual impunity and the production of illegal replica weapons is the main source of income in and around Durra. Knocked up in a totally unregulated environment, in some cases by children, Durra reportedly serves jihadist and other militias, as well as the local citizenry.

John Mason says that if we are “implying other countries are second rate because they have a different opinion from us, we are surely being racist”. So does he think of the scenario which I outlined above “first rate”? I certainly don’t – and it’s in no way “racist” or “colonial” to say so. Mason’s argument is moral relativism at its very worst.
29

Jimmy Le Pie,

12/09/2008 08:22:00
sm753,

Have you ever seen the photo of Comrade Broon manning a machine gun on a helicopter involved in an illegal war.

Any thoughts on that???

Any thoughts on anything???
30

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/09/2008 08:25:32
#25 Overton

I don't think there's any suggestion that it was an Al-Qaeda training camp. But the fact that in Durra anyone can buy anything from handguns to rocket launchers should indicate something of the intended customer base. And apparently the test firing of live weapons in the streets and market areas is an everyday occurrence. It's not exactly a family fun day environment!
31

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/09/2008 08:27:29
#38 Jimmy Le Pie

An *allegedly* illegal war. Innocent until proven guilty. Even Jahangir Hanif!
32

sam the god,

12/09/2008 08:34:22
What is the problem here all this father did was take his children to a firing range and let them try shooting. He is no different than many thousands of parents in the UK I learned to shoot at a young age and both my children have been clay pigeon shooting under proper qualified instructors. They both enjoyed it especially my son who is visually impaired (registered blind) under proper supervision shooting is an enjoyable sport that can be tried by anyone. So all this father was doing is broadening his children horizons and if the children do not like shooting then they say that they do not want to try it again.
33

Scotland to prosper...,

12/09/2008 08:34:34
What has not been picked up by any newspaper was the Presiding Officers continual warnings to Cathy about her question not being relevant to FMQ's. She's a twisted wee sweety wifey who shy's away from the real issues because she knows she'll get a doin.

Yes Cllr Hanif was a silly boy but lets face it, he was not endangering anybody, he was merely taking part in a local activity. We have bowls, they have AK's.

It does not excuse Mason though, he should not stoke the fire. Idiot.
34

Linda,

Edinburgh 12/09/2008 08:36:36
We can understand Labour playing at party politics with this. Labour made a fuss when following impartial officials advice a Holyrood committee suspended Wendy for one day for breaking the law. (And who in Labour leaked the details of her expenses claims to the press?).
So two months suspension seems reasonable given what took place was an error of judgement but not illegal and no more than a local tourist attraction.

However Bill Aitken is a Tory hypocrite. How many Tory Councillors and MPs should have been suspended for firing weapons in UK - many used to kill animals and birds?
35

Jimmy Le Pie,

12/09/2008 08:37:42
AM2 welcome back. I thought you'd retired!

Was the war in Iraq based on the fact that there were weapons of mass destruction, ready to strike???

Where were/are the said weapons???

Allegedly???
36

Jimmy Le Pie,

12/09/2008 08:41:37
sm753,

Any thoughts on the 10p tax rate??

Any thoughts on the cosy relationship between Maggie Thatcher and Comrade Broon??

Have you ever had an original thought, or do you just write what you are told??

37

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/09/2008 08:42:23
Just out of interest, is the good councillor originally from the North West Frontier province? If so, there's no real problem with him going there , to visit relatives etc. If not, his visit would seem, at best, ill-advised, at worst, sinister. The history of British Muslims doing the grand tour of that part of Pakistan has been a tad worrying to say the least.
38

John S,

12/09/2008 08:47:28
#38: I was appalled when I saw the picture of Gordon Brown smiling on board a RAF Puma helicopter while sitting behind a General Purpose Machine Gun.
As they chatted, the airman let go of the gun, which swung round and came to rest directly in front of Mr Brown, making it appear as though he were the gunner.
A Press photographer travelling with Mr Brown seized the moment and started taking pictures of the smiling PM. http://tinyurl.com/5qkxym
P.S. This does prove that our PM has a sense of humour.
39

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/09/2008 08:47:48
#43 Dave

Unfortunately, I don't think the Hanif kids had much fun. Have you read Noor's letter to the First Minister? The full text is posted on SNP Watch and Kezia Dugdale's blog.
40

Brodric,

12/09/2008 08:54:53
31 - Subrosa - good point here.

One of the things that kind of worries me though is the firearm involved. The Kalashnikov is no ordinary rifle. As the assault rifle of choice of many armies and terrorist groups, and notwithstanding that all rifles can be used for lethal purposes, it can hardly be compared with the kind of rifle used by civilians at rifle ranges or for game purposes. This is also not the kind of rifle that ordinary civilians use.

And, with this in mind, I would feel concerned that one would allow one's young children to use an assault rifle.
41

Jimmy Le Pie,

12/09/2008 08:58:18
I find all this nonsense about the tribal areas of Pakistan/Afghanistan being awash with weapons used by AQ etc a bit hypocritical. Did the West not flood the area with millions of weapons so the 'freedom fighters' could drive out the Russians????

Lets get our Independence and sort ourselves out before worrying about the rest of the world.
42

brownlie,

12/09/2008 09:13:27
51 sm753

" ... as we get to see the true nature of many of its members, supporters and even legislators"

Are we to assume from that generalised statement that if a politician from a certain party does something wrong that this illustrates the true nature of many of its members, supporters and even legislators?
43

Mr. Richard C. Normuss,

12/09/2008 09:23:50
Well done Mr. HAMISH MACDONELL, being a staunch unionist I thank you for your report deriding these animals aka SNP.

The more you and your fellow right wing journalists at Johnston Press rubbish these incompetents' the better.
44

brownlie,

12/09/2008 09:24:25
58 Chairman Gordon

"Terrorist don't use shotguns" - I would have thought a terrorist would use any weapon available.

If you get shot would you comfort yourself by saying "It's only a shotgun, thank goodness it was not an AK47"?
45

Jimmy Le Pie,

12/09/2008 09:31:10
58

What weapons were used in the 9/11 attacks??
46

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

12/09/2008 09:37:35
Mason is an idiot - throwing in the "racist" comment only pours oil on the fire. Those who use the word with impunity tend to be those who don't have a clue what real racism is all about.
47

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

12/09/2008 09:40:35
Just one thought - is Mason accusing his own party of being racist because they suspended Hanif?
48

brownlie,

12/09/2008 09:42:49
64 Chairman Gordon

I think you'll find that the IRA found a use for shot-guns.

If you travel in America you can find guns and gun-ranges a-plenty with all sorts of weapons available. Does that mean they are all terrorists?
49

brownlie,

12/09/2008 09:44:01
67 sm753

Who does the filing and for what purpose??
50

yockel,

12/09/2008 09:47:30
Plenty of places in Europe you can legally fire or own a Klashnikov. Are Labour saying they don't want to be part of Europe?

As for SNP suspending a councillor for something he did perfectly legally before he was a councillor, what a bunch of wimps.

Grow up all of you.
51

All Politicians are the same,

Dublin 12/09/2008 09:49:10
Typical salmond weak on crime clueless on terrorism. He is writing letters to Iranian presidents who are visiting camps where insurgents are being trained to kill Scottish soldiers and giving a slap on the wrist to a member of his aprty seen in a training camp firing automatic weapons with their scared children. is this who we want running the country?
52

Jimmy Le Pie,

12/09/2008 09:50:29
Must be about time for Highland Mighty/British Pride to appear for his daily humiliation??

Or is that you sm666
53

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/09/2008 09:50:40
#65 sm753

Re. "bringing his party - and more importantly his country - into disrepute"

In that regard, he has common ground with John Mason. In March 2007, the Standards Commission banned Mason from attending council meetings for nine months for breaching the Councillors’ Code of Conduct. It was effectively a £1500 fine, as that's the amount he would have been paid as leader of the SNP group.
54

Pablo57,

12/09/2008 09:53:11
Hmmm. So Alex Salmond says in Holyrood yesterday "I think this whole chamber should unite in deploring and deprecating racism in Scottish society wherever it emerges." I must have missed his deploration and deprecation of the blatant racism observed and heard at Celtic Park on 31st August. As for John Mason , has he said anything about the overtly public racist and sectarian behaviour that happened in his constituency that day?
Deaf? Blind? Or just double standards?
55

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 12/09/2008 09:54:10
#75

In Dublin for the Leinster Edinburgh game flew over last night. I know that beinf from barra travel is an alien concept but for some people its quite normal.
56

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 12/09/2008 09:54:12
#75

In Dublin for the Leinster Edinburgh game flew over last night. I know that beinf from barra travel is an alien concept but for some people its quite normal.
57

FC Barcelona,

12/09/2008 09:55:48
what a fuss about ak47, any coffee shop in amsterdam will sell you this !!
58

brownlie,

12/09/2008 09:57:40
76 AM2

Was that when Mason vigorously and successfully challenged Labour's intention to have a committee solely comprised of Labour members?
59

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/09/2008 09:57:46
#77 Pablo

Why would he? John Mason is the guy who lodged a complaint about students hanging English flags at a Glasgow high school during the 2006 World Cup finals.
60

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 12/09/2008 09:58:21
#81

Really? not legally given dutch gun laws.

#71 Where in europe is it legal to own a fully automatic 7.62mm assualt rifle privately?
61

brownlie,

12/09/2008 09:59:21
80 Chairman Gordon

Thanks for confirming my original contention.
62

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/09/2008 10:00:29
#83 brownlie

The Evening Times carried the story. Here's an excerpt:

"Mr Mason occupied the chair normally used by the Lord Provost and refused to leave. The meeting had to be held in another room in the City Chambers.

He was protesting at new rules that meant decisions were taken by an executive committee of senior councillors.

Originally the committee was to be made up of only Labour councillors, but following his protest Mr Mason and LibDems' group leader Christopher Mason were allowed to join the committee.

Stuart Allan, the commission's chief investigator, said John Mason's actions had breached the Councillors' Code of Conduct by lowering public trust and confidence in himself, his office and the council."
63

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/09/2008 10:01:11
The real questions have yet to be answered. Where exactly did all this take place? I've read it was either in a camp or in the sort of 'street of gun sellers' that they have in that part of the world. Secondly, why was he there? If it was a camp of any kind, does no-one in the SNP find that worying in itself, given the sort of people that frequent them? People in elected office should be pretty circumspect in the company they keep. It says a lot about their judgment and their suitability for it.
64

brownlie,

12/09/2008 10:01:57
78 All politicians etc etc

Your remarks regarding Barra illustrate that if ignorance is bliss you must be extremely happy.
65

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 12/09/2008 10:02:56
When the going gets tough etc etc ... . What will Salmond be doing in 2012? President of independent Scottish socialist republic? Chairman of Royal Bank of Scotland? General Manager of Trump International Menie Estate? MP at Westminster? All 4?
66

All Politicians are the same,

Dublin 12/09/2008 10:03:01
#88

If you don't type anything in the box it rests to default! Dublin hilton very comfortable this morning, thx. Must try and get of your little island more.
67

brownlie,

12/09/2008 10:04:57
87 AM2

Thank you, and the Evening Times, for confirming my original statement that Labour intended to monopolise the committee and that Mason successfully challenged this.
68

All Politicians are the same,

Dublin 12/09/2008 10:05:23
Dave, you had nothing useful to say yesterday or today, how have I shot myself in the foot? No comments on your terrorist appeasing leader?
69

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/09/2008 10:09:34
#86 brownlie

Yes of course. He "sacrificed himself" for the "greater good". How could I not have seen that before? Ahem!

Ciao!
70

Jimmy Le Pie,

12/09/2008 10:13:57
I don't hear much howling from the Unionists about Martin McGuinness, former IRA man, being in government in Ireland???

Keep clutching at straws - your Union is falling apart, and not a moment too soon.
71

Jimmy Le Pie,

12/09/2008 10:15:13
Whatever happened to 'Britishness Day' Comrade???

Trying to be all things to all men and ending up being nothing to everybody.

Call a general election, now.
72

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/09/2008 10:17:09
Mason's use of the 'r' word was a cheap shot. I take it he doesn't consider those countries that allow female circumcision, the stoning of adulterers, the banning of women from driving, the restriction of education for women, the killing of homosexuals, the killing of apostates, the forced 'fattening' of girls, etc etc to be in any way backward? What's this thing that having a negative view about any aspects of another culture automatically makes you racist?
73

John S,

12/09/2008 10:17:57
2005 - Family holiday to Pakistan in 2005, before he became a councillor.
May 2007-Was elected to serve as councillor for Glasgow Southside Central ward.
Pakistan:- Whether for sectarian crusades, feudal family feuds or wedding celebrations, displaying of weapons and firing them at will has been spreading perniciously in all provinces of Pakistan. It is estimated that Pakistani society has approximately 20 million firearms with one of the highest citizen-to-weapon ratios in the world.Dec 27 2008
Nazar Mirzalkhel owns five AK-47 automatic rifles and two pistols. But he’s feeling vulnerable today. So he’s come to a market town in Pakistan in search of a new handgun and more bullets.July 2001
Customers with enough cash prefer the superior killing power of authentic Kalashnikovs, which cost about $250.
Benazir Bhutto wedding December 8, 1987,- .......in the streets after their wedding there were 100,000 political supporters dancing, singing, firing guns in the air.
74

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

12/09/2008 10:19:08
#90 Was it those nasty Unionists who suspended Mr Hanif from the SNP?

God they get everywhere . . .
75

MacGillicuddy,

12/09/2008 10:22:29
This is clearly the most popular story today. Two much more important stories concerning Broon and his alledged energy saving measures and his back tracking on his commitment last week to more fiscal autonomy for Scotland have attracted less than half the posts together that this one has.
That tells me ALL i need to know about the unionists!
76

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/09/2008 10:24:20
#88 Dave

It's not the firing of the gun that's inherently wrong. It's not the allowing his children to fire a gun that's wrong. You're right, many people use guns and let their children use guns in this country. I've been clay-pigeon shooting and enjoyed it immensely. Doesn't make me a terrorist, nor would it make the councillor a terrorist. But are you honestly telling me that you don't find it a bit disturbing that the man goes to a VERY dodgy part of Pakistan, well known for being a hotbed of anti-Western sentiment, and hangs around with people with guns. I don't suppose you'd be disturbed if he went shooting in some strange enclave in Idaho? It's the company he could be keeping, not the shooting, surely?
77

brownlie,

12/09/2008 10:27:08
92 Draco

Do you mean the kind of country, say Saudi Arabia, that Gordon Brown is consistently courting?
78

Calvinist,

12/09/2008 10:27:33
Hear the latest ‘Wee Eck’ joke?

Wee Eck wasn’t looking where he was going one night and bumped into a lamppost.
The following day he issued a press release stating that he accepted no responsibility for the accident which was clearly caused by a conspiracy between Westminster and the local authority who put the lamppost there in the first place.

Another one I heard was that a burglar broke into the FMs private office and stole some old personal papers. When he read the papers to his horror he discovered that Wee Eck had once had an affair------with Socialism!
79

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/09/2008 10:31:57
#98 brownlie

You'll not get me defending the hypocrisy of Gordon Brown. There again, I'm lucky that I'm not to be in a position of having to resign from my well paid job with BAE because the company sells to dodgy regimes. Would you? Would you tell someone to do so?
80

brownlie,

12/09/2008 10:33:57
101 Draco

Yes, I would. I have seen the devastation caused by weapons in Iraq and elsewhere.
81

Jimmy Le Pie,

12/09/2008 10:34:17
This is a non story whipped up by the desperate Unionists unable to face up to the fact their beloved Sleaze Party and their places at the trough are melting away before their eyes.

I'll be in Glenrothes next weekend.
Will any of the Unionists??

No thought not
82

danielrober,

12/09/2008 10:37:46
Amazing.

Mr Mason is going to make me an ethnic minority in my homelands. Soon the SNP plans will have me ticking a Britsh ethnic box next to Scotish, English, Welsh, Northern Irish, etc, etc. Yet he calls people trying to slow down the gun culture racist.

I think Obama recently said its not 'racist be against Kalashnikov's on our streets'. The gun culture has gone nuts, with MACHINE GUNS in the hands of kids and councellors. Not a good trend and a terible example to kids.

Oh and for those of you who wish to call me a racist - i'm in a mixed race relation (14 years), have two kids and have had more fights than i care to remember with racist nutters over the last 20 years.

Mr Mason should just stop causing racist trouble. Really, stop it, NOW. ;-(
83

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/09/2008 10:38:26
#100 Dave

Had he been shown to be a former or present member of a gun club in this country would have made this a non-story. He might well be for all I know, though no-one has mentioned that. Indeed, much is made of him being anti-gun.

I'm glad you agree there's something fishy about his conduct. He might not be anti-Western, but in that part of Pakistan there sure as hell are a lot of folk who are. That, in itself, puts him at risk of being covered by that old adage 'you fly with the craws...' For a man who was, at the time, looking to be an MP, it wasn't exactly a display of astute judgement.
84

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/09/2008 10:40:19
#102 brownlie

Then, sincerely, I take my hat off to you.
85

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

12/09/2008 10:41:18
There are two seperate issues here.

1 Was Mr Hanif right in letting himself be videoed with the Kalashnikov?

On reflection I suspect that Mr Hanif probably regrets his actions - anyone who aspires to higher public office knows that the standards expected of our elected representatives is higher than that expected of the general public. Moreover, it is not the opposition parties who initiated any action against Mr Hanif but his own party - who, in all fairness, could argue that he was bringing them into disrepute. one could argue that the punishment was too severe but as I don't know the internal workings of the SNP nor know of any other past precedents it is difficlult to make any comment.

2 Were those who attacked Mr Hanif for doing so being racist as John Mason puts it?

No - if anything the attacks appear to have been of a personal and political nature than anything else. My understanding is that the original complaint that led to his suspension was raised by his ex-wife. Any subsequent attacks have been more about his suitability to hold higher office and bringing the SNP into disrepute. The test of whether these attacks are racist or not is to ask if they would still happen if Mr Hanif were white - I think the answer is - yes they would.



86

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/09/2008 10:51:13
#109 The Federalist

Surely, Donald Findlay QC found himself in a comparable situation? Keeping the company of some dodgy football supporters and apparently enjoying their sectarian songs, albeit 'ironically', has left most folk with a suspicion about him. The same for Councillor Hanif.
87

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 12/09/2008 10:55:56
#109 Dave

You still seem to be missing the point. It's not the shooting the gun that's the problem, it's the who he was shooting the gun WITH, that's the problem. And the fact he was a putative MP doesn't make it any better or worse. He could be a fishmonger or a spark, but if he goes to the NWP and, possibly, keeps the company of Jihadists or whatever, that's a worry.
88

Iain's,

Barcelona 12/09/2008 11:02:44
It is probably a racist smear against people from 'The Land of the Clean'.

But it is definitely a total lack of cultural awareness or respect for the traditions of North West Pakistan.

What else is there to do when 'up the Kyber'?

Local traditions are all about hospitality to visitors and that hospitality may include playing with guns.

In Scotland visitors (like some of my Spanish pals), may be allowed to dress up in kilts and stick a lethal KNIFE in their stocking. Does that mean that they are 'bad' people? No!

One rule for brown people, one for white, is it?

Those of Pakistani origen should think about any ideas they may have in respect of voting New Labour at the next election.

Vote them out!




89

Iain's,

Barcelona 12/09/2008 11:12:06
We were made to shoot guns at school.

Can I sue?
90

John S,

12/09/2008 11:30:58
The Northern Branch of the BLP are acting silly and racist, this maybe part of the tradition in that part of Pakistan and he wasn't a SNP councillor in 2005 and perhaps he was trying to teach his children the correct and safe handling of firearms at an early age.

Shotgun licences issued to eight-year-olds - Children as young as eight are being issued gun licences by the police, figures showed yesterday.
Forces granted 1,291 shotgun certificates to those aged 16 and under in England and Wales during the 12 months to October.
Figures released under the Freedom of Information Act showed that among the licences given to those under 16, 135 were handed to 13-year-olds, 81 to 12-year-olds and 33 to 11-year-olds. A further 19 were awarded to 10-year-olds, two to nine-year-olds and two to eight-year-olds.
Once issued with a certificate, children can shoot on private land as long as they are supervised by someone over 21.19 Apr 2008: http://tinyurl.com/6hnjp4
91

W Smith,

Middle East 12/09/2008 11:42:15
Hanif, the liar, tried to make out he had no connection to SNP before this incident.

Nice try you devious little man.

Here's a photo of Salmond with some bloke called Hanif dated 2001!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk_politics/2001/conferences_2001/snp/1554173.stm
92

W Smith,

Middle East 12/09/2008 11:45:07
While Salmond refuses to support the Scottish soldiers fighting the Taleban HE HAS NO PROBLEM SUPPORTING PEOPLE LIKE HANIF AND OSAMA SAEED.

ITS NOT JUST SPECIAL BRANCH WHO ARE ON TO YOU NOW MR SALMOND!
93

The Tin Man,

12/09/2008 11:57:45
I think the real question is how many turnips Mr Salmond could grow in the crease between his two chins?
94

Mcsnagpile,

12/09/2008 12:02:48
To make amends he could be photographed wrapped in an American flag and firing an M16. Or maybe he would not get any voters.
95

Jimmy Le Pie,

12/09/2008 12:10:35
W Smith

Will you be canvassing in Glenrothes, next week??

Will you be voting in the referendum??

Or will you be sitting in a Muslim country, drinking flash as your brain and liver give up under the onslaught of home made firewater, while you dream of the glorious days of the Empire??

I suspect the latter.
96

danielrober,

12/09/2008 12:31:37
You know i discuss education with lots of Brits of Asian origin. Mainly we dicuss public vers private school or the merits of a gap years. If there is a gap year is it before, during or after University.

Funny thing is i've never had a conversation on the merits of a Machine gun verse a Rifle with baynoet. Wow i must talk with some stange people.

Either that or Mr Masons view on modern Brits of Asian origin is just weird. Its not normal to give your kids a MACHINE GUN to play with. Its a parential choice, made for a persons own reasons. But as a parent i can say this is a bad example to show kids considering the growth of gun crime the last few years.

Most asian families don't have guns, would never dream of playing with a machine gun and to say its just normal is to insult the asian community.

Mr Mason your crazy.
97

Higgs Boson,

Glasgow 12/09/2008 12:35:20
Its debatable whether the coverage of this "scandal" has been racist but there is no doubt that it has encourage all sorts of racist bampots to come out of the woodwork.

I doubt whether this would have been a story if it had been a Christian with white face firing a gun. The Glasgow Evening Times has been irresponsible in the language it has used alleging the incident took place at "military style camp" which immediately becomes an Al Quaeda or terrorist camp in the minds of racists.

The Evening Times has been cavalier in its coverage encouraging these nutjobs. Whether the reporting has been racist, politically motivated or just the gutter press acting as it does is debatable.

98

Matt there,

Somewhere 12/09/2008 12:37:26
Hamish, for goodness sake. Stop topping and tailing Labour press releases.

Nobody in the real world is impressed!
99

Senga Jean,

12/09/2008 12:44:56
Now if he had said he was a pig with lipstick! (The Johnstone Press will do anything to hurt the SNP. The Labour Party are today's PATSY but tomorrow they may the Scotsman target. Irony?
100

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

12/09/2008 12:54:03
#123 "I doubt whether this would have been a story if it had been a Christian with white face firing a gun."

It was not just any old gun but a machine gun - can you imagine the response if an MSP had, for example, gone to the US and been videoed with the NRA shooting a Kalashnikov?

They would have been equally vilified by their own party and the press.

This is not about race but about race being used to divert attention away from an individual.