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Minister says send convicts out to work



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Published Date: 09 September 2008
IN MATES in Scotland's biggest prison should be let out to work on major construction projects including new facilities for the 2014 Commonwealth Games, the justice secretary said yesterday.
Kenny MacAskill said it was "ridiculous" that there were 1,500 prisoners stuck behind bars in Barlinnie jail when they could be used to fill the labour gap in the construction industry. He said that instead of using prison gates as a "revolving door", offenders should be required to do "hard work" on building and engineering projects that could be hit by labour shortages.

Opposition politicians last night fiercely attacked the proposal that prisoners should be used to fill labour shortages. Labour MSP Paul Martin said: "If he's suggesting somebody who commits a vicious assault should be subject to rehabilitation by putting them on a building site rather than behind bars, that's a scandal."

But industry experts welcomed the plan, saying it would improve long-term job prospects in an industry that has suffered extreme labour shortages in recent years. Victims' groups, meanwhile, said they were comfortable with the move, claiming that public safety would not be jeopardised.

Speaking at a conference on the need for penal reform, Mr MacAskill said he was eager to involve the private sector in rehabilitating prisoners and reducing the prison population, which last week hit a record high of more than 8,000.

He said the construction industry was facing a labour shortage, despite the credit crunch, and suggested that sending prisoners at Barlinnie jail in Glasgow on building projects would be more productive than keeping them behind bars.

"We cannot go on as we are, where we end up with a situation where we have people who we need to be constructive who are stuck behind bars.

"It's in our interests when we have got the M74 north extension, the construction of the Commonwealth Games stadia, the construction of the Southern General Hospital in Glasgow, with Poles returning to their country.

"It's ridiculous that we have 1,500 people in Barlinnie. We need them out doing some hard work to make Glasgow a better place."

Mr MacAskill did not explain exactly how he proposed to get offenders involved in construction, but one way would be through tougher community sentences being planned by the Scottish Government. Ministers want less serious criminals "paying back" to their local community for their crimes, rather than being continually sent briefly to jail.

Another possibility is sending more inmates on work placements. Barlinnie has no such programme, but other jails run day-release schemes for "low-risk" prisoners. These include Saughton in Edinburgh, Perth and Shotts, and the open prisons of Castle Huntly and Noranside.

Mr MacAskill is keen to get more private companies into jails to train inmates, increasing their chances of securing a job on release and reducing the likelihood they will reoffend. This rarely happens at Barlinnie because of massive overcrowding.

Following yesterday's conference, Mr MacAskill held a meeting with the Wise Group, a charity that helps people back into work, to discuss his plans.

David Lonsdale, from CBI Scotland, welcomed Mr MacAskill's call, but cautioned that it could make it harder for builders to find work during the downturn.

"The minister is right to highlight the sector where that ought to be possible over the coming years, namely construction, with big projects in the pipeline in terms of transport and energy infrastructure, together with the Commonwealth Games. That's great news for job prospects over the medium and longer term; however the current downturn in housebuilding means that competition for available construction work is more intense."

Bernadette Monaghan, chief executive of Apex Scotland, which gives training to offenders, said the idea was good – provided the right offenders were picked. "We have had a lot of schemes in the past where we have tried to place people straight from prison into employment and it hasn't worked. You have to make them employable first. For example, you couldn't send someone on methadone on to a construction site," she said.

A spokesman for Victim Support Scotland said the group has "no problem" with the proposal. "We are confident that uppermost in his mind will be public safety."

But Mr Martin, Labour's community safety spokesman, said Mr MacAskill should be "ashamed" for suggesting that prisoners be used to shore up the construction labour market. "Victims will be horrified to learn that somebody who was the perpetrator of a serious crime is working on a building site," he said.

Bill Aitken MSP, Tory justice spokesman, said: "Frankly, the reduction in prison numbers is a budgetary-driven obsession on the part of the SNP government and they seem hell-bent on going down this route with a total disregard for public safety and security."

However, a spokeswoman for the Scottish Government said it was highly unlikely that serious, violent criminals would be sent to a construction site instead of prison. "I don't think he's talking about rapists being allowed to work on building sites," she said.

The idea of offenders being put to work on Commonwealth Games construction work was first suggested by Scottish Government officials in a document published earlier this year.

The consultation paper, entitled Glasgow 2014 – Delivering a Lasting Legacy for Scotland, said one benefit of hosting the Games could be more opportunity for offenders, or those at risk of offending, to acquire skills or be diverted from crime.


The full article contains 906 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 September 2008 12:58 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish prisons
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/09/2008 00:04:35

And how does one propose to police such a project?

The Daily News will read,...

"Prisoner on the Run"!
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/09/2008 00:09:41

Ford Transit ~3,

Watching that mad film on ITV "Blue Velvet" a few about to be "Prisoners" there, 'HUH'?
3

drunken proffet,

Tassy 09/09/2008 00:17:04
Great idea, you are already paying for their keep. They are no doubt climbing the wall being locked away all the time. Start building railway lines. You will be needing the transport in about twenty years time. On the other hand, it is really too sensible to be accepted.
4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/09/2008 00:17:50

And the 'Terrorist Prisoner's' were given opportunity to plant bombs with the "construction industry" as were it has been suggested 9/11, although maybe not "prisoner's" , it is food for thought!
5

nolimits,

Far North 09/09/2008 00:48:11
If they do that, security should not be an issue. Inserting RF devices, or ankle bracelets will make tracking them easier. I wonder what the intellectually challenged bureaucrats at the EU would think about that........hmmmm?
6

Scullion,

Canada 09/09/2008 01:10:20
Driving along the New Jersey Turnpike you can see orange suited prisoners do a variety of clean up jobs. They don't appear to be too motivated.
However, I'm willing to go along with it if it helps rehabilitate some and doesn't put some able bodied non con out of work.
Still, I don't recommend giving them the keys to the bulldozer.
7

Willie Macleod,

Wick 09/09/2008 01:21:20
Sam Cooke and "Chain Gang" come to mind.

Is this the first meeting of minds Kenny and Guga I wonder!
8

Brian Hill,

09/09/2008 01:36:03
God idea. Society benefits from cheap labour. The inmates benefit from maintaining contact with the work ethic (some for the first time) and of course they 'escape' their confinement on a daily basis.

They should of course be allowed to keep a fair part of their wages so that when they are finally released they have some reasonable start up money to get them housed and ready for work, perhaps with the very firms which have employed them whilst during their confinement.

Overall, much better idea than a blanket raising of the off license age to 21 and killing off half price drink offers in the supermarket.
9

subrosa,

09/09/2008 02:00:53
Great idea. But be careful - suddenly all the liberals will be saying the prisoners will have to be paid the going rate for whatever job.

Would certainly sort out the men from the boys but will require much more professional supervision than is presently given to community service offenders.
10

Guga II,

Rockall 09/09/2008 02:07:21
Yet another idiotic idea from that waste of space, Kenny MacAskill.

The first thing that would happen is that they would start letting out all the violent neds and thugs, half of whom would abscond, the other half would just commit their crimes in situ.

The idea will probably be welcomed by the business community as they can request prisoners to work on building sites, probably at a very cheap rate, and put a lot of building workers out of a job. The building industry already employs a lot of Eastern Europeans as they can pay them far less than the going rate. Using prisoners would be a free gift scheme to them, and allow them to enhance their profits at the expense of genuine building workers.

I am all for making prisoners work for their keep, but the best way to approach this so that it is not detrimental to the majority of building workers, is to have them on chain gangs digging drainage ditches along the sides of the roads, clearing verges and similar. They could also be used to do gardening work for old age pensioners and the like, under strict supervision, of course.

Kenny MacAskill seems determined to empty the prisons as much as possible, which may have a degree of merit, but he appears to be unable to discriminate between non-violent and violent prisoners. He is already allowing violent thugs to be sent to open prisons, from which they can, and do, easily walk out.

Remember also, this is the amadan that doesn't want to gaol anyone under the age of eighteen, even if they are violent thugs and neds. He is also the man who is pushing for a raft of new legislation to prevent anyone under the age of 21 from getting access to alcohol, as well as rasing the prices of it; all because he appears not to want to enforce existing, and comprehensive legislation covering under-age drinking and loutish behaviour.

Kenny, will you please resign, before you do any more damage to the SNP. Wee Eck, get rid of this numpty.

11

Guga II,

Rockall 09/09/2008 02:11:59
#10 Willie.

I don't think so somehow.
12

Team Scotland,

FC UK No! 09/09/2008 02:32:07
Good Idea.

Most prisoners are more of a nuisance than a danger and if they can gain some experience to aid rehabilitation all to the good. Rotting away in ‘crime school’ is not in the long term public interest.

Those deemed a potential danger to the public should be excluded from non secure projects.


13

Willie Macleod,

Wick 09/09/2008 02:37:17
#16 Guga Sorry I have got you wrong on this

14

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 09/09/2008 02:41:10
McChain Gangs, ah'm lovin' it.
Picking up garbage in the highway ditches or running a weed whacker is good healthy rehabilitation.
Orange boiler suits and a big sign "Scottish prisoners at work for you" completes the happy picture.
Right out of Cool Hand Luke.
Without the bikini carwash scene, of course.
Are Broon and all those Labore handwringers ready for Cool Hand Kenny?
15

Willie Macleod,

Wick 09/09/2008 02:46:39
It is unwise for anyone to think they know a fellow posters mind better than themselves.

Although it happens on here a lot.
16

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 09/09/2008 03:51:09
#19 Neil Waugh,Old Strathcona, Not Orange boiler suits sunshine, PINK ones like Sheriff Joe Arapaio uses in the states.
Kenny McCaskill must have read one of my blogs!Working prisoners is an absolute must.
The usual negative leftie nonsense from 'cackling insanity' Guga. All condemnation, but SFA solutions.The idea is excellent, then I must admit, there seems nothing in the UK at the moment they couldn't screw up.They must be made to work.Idle hands do mischief make.If they are too knackered to lift their heads off the pillow at the end of the day, it would make everyones job easier.
Use 'rehabilitated' Cons to surpervise them.They screw up, add them to the change.What ever method they use, all it takes is brains,backbone and the will to do it.Ah! well we are talking about spineless Scotland now aren't we? Failed!
17

glaswegian at heart,

florida usa 09/09/2008 03:55:28
Months ago when I read about the overcrowding etc.in prisons,I commented that instead of doing nothing the they(the prisoners)should be out doing some kind of manual labour to help defray the cost of their keep.I'm glad someone is suggesting something along those lines.What took them so long?
18

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 09/09/2008 04:01:46
Perhaps using prisoners to remove garbage would make good use of their copious amounts of free time?
Work=privileges, like food.+
Sustained good work=TV at weekends.+
Sustained Exemplary work=1day off a month.
Skiving or committing assault,bad mouthing prison staff etc,=withdrawal of all privileges and back on to basic food,no frills and only water to drink.For 6months.Then re-assess. Easy, it is called the carrot and the stick.PhD's not required,just balls and common-sense.
Wallowing in hanky-wringing, which seems almost a religion in UK, will as usual result in the present downward spiral continuing unabated.Ideas? Thought not.
19

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 09/09/2008 04:07:55
#22 glaswegian at heart,Florida,usa. Likewise.It would appear that any imagination and common-sense left Scotland long ago.A nation renowned for the inventions and institutions it has contributed to the world,can't sort out a population of less than a small city in many countries.Who I might add live in relative peace and harmony.Previously Scotland=World leaders, now = Whining Losers,bereft of ideas which have solutions staring them in the face.How low Scotland has come in such a short time?
20

ARCHIE M,

AUSTRALIA 09/09/2008 04:18:18
WHAT IS SCOTLANDS UNEMPLOYMENT RATE ???
WHY NOT SPEND THE MONEY RETRAINING PEOPLE ON BENEFITS THIS WOULD INCREASE THEIRS AND SCOTLANDS POOL OF SKILLED AND SEMI SKILLED WORKERS AND IT WOULD BE PART FUNDED BY THEIR BENEFITS .
AS FAR AS THE CRIMINALS SCOTLAND SHOULD LEARN FROM SINGAPORE !!!!!!!!!!!!
NOT MANY CRIMINALS WOULD COME BACK FOR A SECOND DOSE OF SIX LASHES WITH A CANE. THE TIME HAS COME FOR SCOTLAND TO TAKE A STRONG STAND AGAINST CRIME AND STOP BEING WET NURSES TO THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT AND THE DO GOODERS !!!!! THIS WOULD SAVE THE SCOTTISH TAX PAYER SO MUCH MONEY IN PRISONS AND REHABILITAING .
THE SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT SHOULD VISIT SINGAPORE AND SEE HOW EFFECTIVE THEIR STYLE OF JUSTICE IS .
WAKE UP !!!!!
21

indune1,

Canada 09/09/2008 04:20:51

Great idea.

Picking up dog sh*te.

Removing graffiti.

Picking up rubbish.

Removing needles from parks.

They would get paid according to the sh*te, rubbish and needles they turn in at the end of their shift.

But that's only after a 5-mile run at 6am.

I'm thinking tartan worksuits. Dress MacLeod would be best.

22

terry osser,

morden 09/09/2008 04:40:09
lrts start by getting ministers into work
23

Mark Renton,

Edinburgh 09/09/2008 06:08:51
I say "Put the useless boogers to work, but don't waste a cushy construction job on them, send them down to clean the sewers. Hopefully they will get flushed away with all the other fecal scum."
24

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/09/2008 06:12:51
Why pay someone to do a job when you can get a convict to do it for peanuts ?

Except it wont be peanuts. The 'supervisors' from the SPS will have to be paid after all.
25

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/09/2008 06:16:22
MacAskill sez the cons will fill the gap in the construction industry.

What labour gap ? Doesn't he know there's been a down-turn in the industry with the inevitable lay-offs ?
26

james 1st,

hamilton nz 09/09/2008 07:21:00
when a prisoner is released for such a commitment who would be responsible to ensure that they do not commit crimes or abscond. would the person making the decision be held personally responsible?
would the minister who has made the proposal be held personally responsible?
i doubt that either of the above would be the case and the victim of any crimes thereby commited would simply be told "hard cheese"
the cost of finding any absconders would of course be met from the police budget which would mean even poorer policing than at present, as policemen searching for already convicted absonders would not be availabe to investigate new crimes
27

Louis Catorze,

09/09/2008 07:27:33
What about bricklayers, labourers et al? How would they be punished if they led a life of crime on the side?
28

McMillar,

Fife 09/09/2008 07:30:39
Potentially a great idea. Must be a range of work that could be undertaken. Interesting to see how this one develops.
29

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 09/09/2008 07:40:12
At least it's a better idea than the Westminster government's plan of forcing people who HAVEN'T committed a crime to do unpaid manual labour just for being unemployed.
30

Jock's Away,

Africa 09/09/2008 07:51:00
Is Scotland so flush with public money,and Manpower assets, so rich that the prison service can keep repairing Victorian institutions. That it can afford to pay for the them to idle in prison for years.
There are those that are a danger to the public, however the system the foundation of Scottish life dictates thy are released after "PAYING" their dept to society.
Don't tear down the Ideas, Enhance them. Yes it would need physical management(CAVEAT:NOT JUST ANOTHER QUANGO)Think out side the box.
A numbers of letter and ther Labour SMPs are based on fear and risk. News Flash LIFE IS RISK, no midwife ever slapped a new born to start life with the promise "You will have a good risk free life."
Loose the politicing and it can be achieved.
31

,

09/09/2008 07:51:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
32

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 09/09/2008 07:52:50
Where does MacAskill dream these ideas up? Is somebody advising him? Is somebody trying to fit him up?
33

Mikey,

09/09/2008 07:53:16
Why not just make the team responsible for it's members? One escapes, they're all locked up! That way, everyone keeps an eye on everybody else! Oh, and make sure the only prisoners selected are those with less than say, four months of their sentences left.

No doubt there'll be the usual screams from those who have never had a real job in their lives, Liebore pols, union leaders etc.

Seriously though, this is probably unworkable, but it opens the debate!
34

an interested party,

09/09/2008 07:53:24
and the dole que grow longer

fair enough convicts cleaning the roadside but taking work from tradesman, food from babies mouths

Ill though out hyperbole

35

Bigwull,

edinburgh 09/09/2008 08:05:53
There are plenty of "honest" individuals on benefits in Glasgow that should be given 1st crack at this are there not?
36

Brodric,

09/09/2008 08:22:21
Great idea - agree with nos 13 and 14.

Prisoners should work for their keep and should be forced to help keep their families too.

Its not just the cost of keeping them in prison; their families are often left on benefits, subsidised travelling to the prison, and so on. So why shouldn't they work. Taking their liberty away doesn't mean that we should take away their lives.

And it could also help with rehabilitation of convicts when they are released, especially at the level of employers, when they are seen as people who made a mistake - especially those at low level crimes.

Those not able to leave the prison should also have meaningful work, and I don't mean working in the laundry.
37

thinking,

Scotland 09/09/2008 08:31:46
Getting prisoners to work is a good idea.
Their 'cells' should be basic, no frills such as TVs etc.
They should be paid for their work and out of that pay should pay for their keep as if outside and if they want a tv etc they should pay for it themselves.
That puts them on more of a level playing field with the rest of us who don't get subsidised.
This way they will be used to working (many for the first time). They can be taught to budget their income and opt for job training to improve their skills.
This, hopefully, would reduce re-offending and also reduce the burden on society.
38

Strict Ivan Jellicoe,

Renfrew 09/09/2008 08:47:05
Simppler soultion - hang the bluudy lot of them
39

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 09/09/2008 08:50:18
Good idea, also can we have them picking up litter and cleaning graffiti.
40

bluehead,

edinburgh 09/09/2008 08:53:46
sounds like a good idea, we could always replace the prisoners with useless politicians, where they would be safely out of the way,and the british people would feel a lot more secure,we could start with the labour
goverment,what a relief that would be for all of us,to see that lot kept away from normal people.
41

Paddi,

09/09/2008 09:10:29
#25, i've got a btter idea, lets put them all in a boat and pack them off to some far flung island where they can break rocks for the rest of their lives, what about terra nullius ?
42

Foresight,

By the Water of Leith 09/09/2008 09:18:16

Why not conscript them into the army for the duration of their sentences ??
43

Strict Ivan Jellicoe,

Renfrew 09/09/2008 09:37:09
#56. Brilliant idea! Then they can become paid and professional psycopaths just like Michael Ryan
44

WKKB,

09/09/2008 09:49:05
"We cannot go on as we are, where we end up with a situation where we have people who we need to be constructive who are stuck behind bars.

Stuck behind bars??? Isn't that exactly where criminals should be? Possibly for lesser offenses (petty theft etc) they can be used for hard labour as part of their penance but don't put the serious offenders against people out there.

I think people who would normally be paid for such a job will also have something to say about it. Even if there is a labour shortage. The winners here are the prisoners and those who would normally have to pay for the work they're now getting done for how much????
45

WKKB,

09/09/2008 09:52:32
if government wants to use convict labour, treat them like the convicts they are and start up a chain gang system like they do in America and have done for years. Make sure the public sees them locked together, especially young offenders. Maybe then it will make them think twice before offending again once they are back on the streets. Public humiliation goes a long way with some.
46

,

09/09/2008 09:56:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
47

Finnzz,

09/09/2008 09:59:38
Excellent idea.
As someone who has overseen a party of young offenders on a work detail, I can confirm that outdoor work is of immense benefit to them. In fact, several of the youths carried out their cleanup work with dilligence and enthusiasm when they were warned of the alternative of their usual incarceration. The large majority were delighted to get away from the oppressive regime behind locked doors and were actually keen for the outdoor work to continue.
Naturally enough, the reports of their behaviour following release showed that those who had worked on these details significantly improved their chances of getting jobs and leaving behind the downward spiral into a life of crime.
48

Incandescent with Rage!!!,

09/09/2008 10:03:40
Prisoners cost the taxpayer approx £33,000.00 per anum, methinks 'hard labour' is a most appropriate action the Scottish Government can introduce!
49

Stop buy Scotsman,

09/09/2008 10:08:24
Sounds very good idea, the prisoners could be used to dismantled the Scotsman office for free.

STOP BUY SCOTSMAN.
50

Incandescent with Rage!!!,

09/09/2008 10:11:25
#63 Who would want to buy the Scotsman?
51

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 09/09/2008 10:23:52
#60 McKellarator

I do love the way you 'enlightened' people, as opposed to the 'hang 'em, humiliate 'em posse', consider yourselves so 'sane'. Your arrogant belief they you are so irrefutably correct is equalled only by your apparent inability to see the correlation between the inexorable rise in crime and the prison population and the liberalisation of the criminal justice system since the 1960s. The liberals have been in charge of the asylum since then , you really should accept responsibilty for what you've done.
52

JimC,

Kilmarnock 09/09/2008 10:29:16
Labour gap, tell that to my son-in-law who was just been put on a three day week, that's three days staying at home as there is no work for him or his machine. It really is true; these politicians are so out of step with the working classes that they cannot claim any right to represent them. And let’s not forget it was 47 SNP abstentions that failed to support paying monies back to the elderly for food preparation. The voice of the people? aye right Alex.
53

santa cova,

09/09/2008 10:35:14
#6 Charles
There are no SAS prisoners in our "jails" as far as I am aware. Great idea,put these degenerates to work,probably for the first time in their lives.
54

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 09/09/2008 10:42:30
#66 JimC

Totally correct. It's the bleeding heart middle class liberal elite that are the cause of the mess. They're not the ones that have to try and live honest, hard-working lives on estates surounded by amoral junkie parasites. They can probably get a decent night's kip because they don't live next to some unemployable halfwit who lives a nocturnal existance. They don't need to worry about having the property they've worked hard for stolen or damaged by gangs of feral kids. Their parents probably don't have to be in by teatime because they're too frightened to go out at night.It's doubtful they don't have to worry their kids will be stabbed when they do nothing but be in the wrong place at the same time as some wee ned. The most they have to girn about is getting the odd speeding ticket, or in the case of our politicians, getting as much out of the trough as they can. Still, as long as they feel so smug and better than the 'hang 'em' brigade, that's alright then.
55

subrosa,

09/09/2008 10:46:41
# 56

The army doesn't want them. It's not branch of social services these days. It's a professional organisation presently being stretched beyond their manpower levels but taking on criminals? A definite no no. The regular soldiers would leave in even more droves than they are at present if that idea was initiated.
56

eric,

lothian 09/09/2008 10:50:43
Plenty unemployed in Edinburgh & Glasgow !But in the real world they will have to speak polish!
57

Miss H,

09/09/2008 10:58:21
I am not so sure about the idea of getting convicts to work on construction projects - I would rather see that done on a proper paying basis. However I am 100% behind the idea of making people pay something back as a form of punishment not just chucking them in jail. I would like to see them set to clear up litter, vandalism etc and environmental projects.

Draco - assuming you are not on the wimdup. Would you really like to go back to the 1930s which is what you appear to be arguing for? Have you ever read a history book? Do you have the slightest idea what living conditions were like for people in that era?

Get a grip.
58

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 09/09/2008 11:02:41
#71 Miss H

I do wish you'd read before opening your gob. Who said anything about going back to conditions in the '30s? Although I do recall the prison population was a good deal lower.
59

Helen,

09/09/2008 11:06:43
I wouldn't like to see prisoners being allowed out. They are in prison to be punished and part of that punishment is to be kept away from society.
They should have all privileges taken away from them...no TV, no pool table, no pleasure at all.
It's supposed to be a punishment. All this bleeding heart liberal nonsense about rehabilitation makes me sick. If you commit a crime you go to prison and if you don't commit a crime then you don't go to prison. Simple really....
60

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 09/09/2008 11:09:31
Provided it's not just a skive and there are further rewards and penalties built into the system, criminals may well find it far more pleasant to live a law-abiding life than to actually have to work. No more automatic rewards like being called "Mister", gyms, Sky TV, pool, drugs, cigarettes. The legal rewards in this list returned when a day's work is done.

And for goodness' sake just close your ears to the PC liberal commies who want to destroy this country and what it stands for. So far, demonstrably, their version of criminal correction is a proven failure. On drugs? Get more from the state ad infinitum (methadone). Have to empty your potty? Here's some cash. Sentenced to ten years? Get half of that rescinded.

Here's Sheriff Joe Arpaio's verdict on prison overcrowding "Arpaio believed that "courts, not head count" should determine when an inmate is released, and that no officer should be deterred from making an arrest for fear that the inmate would be released due to jail overcrowding." Contrast this with the recent McLeish utterings on reducing prison head count on the principle that because prisons are full we should take this into account when sentencing. Arpaio's idea of fine dining is ou of date food at 30c per day. None of this £33,000/year malarkey!




61

Salmond Rushdie,

09/09/2008 11:12:18
Do you think Kenny Mac has considered the reality of allowing violent and dangerous criminals onto construction sites while under the influence of drugs etc. Furthermore, what is it that a criminal can do on a construction site while locked within a chain gang?

Mind you, the SNP don't seem to appraise the cost or consequence of any of their proposals - so true to form I suppose.
62

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 09/09/2008 11:14:37
#76 Former Mr Angry

A man after my own heart. If we had elected judges and police chiefs in this country we'd soon get the standard of real justice that the silent, trampled-on, majority want and not the current old boys network living on another planet.
63

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 11:15:15
A good idea MY ASHER!

So, we let crooks out to work? Who for? Big companies like? Give them workers for free? Eh?

So how many law abiding workers will be laid off like?

How idiotic can people on here be? Are you all thick?
64

Salmond Rushdie,

09/09/2008 11:19:02
#79

Yip - we're all really thick and you are far too bright for this forum - go away.
65

phemie,

Aberdour 09/09/2008 11:33:51
That a great idea, a chain gang in orange suits, fresh air and exercise!. The time will pass in no time, and they will be too tired to riot. Thats the answer and about time too.They will definitely not want to go back
66

Salmond Rushdie,

09/09/2008 11:40:53
I saw a documentary about a state in the US that made criminals in chain gangs wear pink suits. Talk about humiliating...
67

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 09/09/2008 11:55:53
Aye! put these wasters to work and it wont be long before they are attempting to tunnel their way back in to prison. Scumbags, the whole lot of them.
68

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 09/09/2008 11:59:44
#82 phemie, Brilliant idea and when you are drawing up your excellent plan,dont forget to leave room for a chain gang with "orange sashes"

Teeee Heeee Heeeee.
69

Brian Hill,

09/09/2008 12:06:40
Well love him or loathe him no one can accuse Kenny MacAskill of playing it safe as Justice Minister.

I think many of his radical approaches need fine tuning and one or two may even need to be dropped but overall he is making a determined effort to tackle some of Scotland's most difficult social problems, which is more than could be said of his predecessors.
70

Publius,

London 09/09/2008 12:07:49
Whenever I look at a big construction site I am impressed by the skills that seem to be involved - surveying, operating complex and expensive machines, bricklaying, plastering, electrics, plumbing, glazing. The days when building was all muscle and no brains are long gone.
Kenny MacAskill should tell us what hard work he has in mind for prisoners.
71

Miss H,

09/09/2008 12:08:03
72 You did.

You are bemoaning everything that is liberal, the entire concept of the welfare state.

Other than the brief blip that was Thatcherism that concept has been the basis of UK society and policy since 1945.

You want to go back to the way it was prior to 1945? Fine. But don't kid yourself it was better than it is now.
72

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 09/09/2008 12:08:56
I'm not sure that sending prisoners to work on building sites is a good plan as they can be dangerous places an it could be a health and safety risk to proper construction workersas well as to the convicts. Imagine the compensation which would be paid in the event of an accident.

My suggestion would be build prisons and recycling plants on the same site and let them spend their time standing at conveyor belts sorting plastic bottles from tin cans. Messy nasty smelly work but with little risk of doing themselves or others harm. There is always going to be recycling now. It will return to society a benefit at a cost that makes recycling worthwhile. It can also be carried out in a more secure location and is not taking jobs away from those who are willing to do them in the construction industry.
73

Strict Ivan Jellicoe,

#68 Draco was a wimp 09/09/2008 12:09:11
#68 Draco was a wimp
Draco – it’s you who sounds like a (bitter) bleeding heart middle class liberal elite!
Remember that it’s the middle class who pay the highest tax and keep society going.
The unemployed and underclass don’t pay anything, and the rich and upper class pay a modest fee to accountants to stash their cash away so that they don’t pay anything either.
Draco- go to university – work hard - get qualifications – get a better job. If you can’t beat them – join them.

74

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 09/09/2008 12:14:45
Yet another piece of characteristic idiocy by the non-thinking MacAskill.

Put yourself in the position of a construction site manager. Would you really want to be bothered employing convicts which would require constant supervision and would probably not have the skills to do most of the jobs you required of them?

This whole thing smacks of the grumpy old man comment in the pub which goes along the lines of "Put them all in the Army." The Army doesn't need convicts amongst its ranks any more than the construction industry does.

One day MacAskill is going to get fired because of his stupid comments. That day cannot come soon enough. He is an embarrassment to Scotland.
75

fiferjohn,

09/09/2008 12:38:01
now starting to talk sense .the americans have the right system chain gangs doing work on the roads and other things image the saving the council can make have prison labour doing all the cleaning and gardening jobs and how cheap it would be to get the roads fixed. and for security just put armed guards to watch them that should stop any of them doing a runner.
76

Wynn,

CLYDESDALE 09/09/2008 12:38:58
I resent the position taken by the Minister.
His idea leaves no space for satire let alone constructive criticism.
77

fiferjohn,

09/09/2008 12:47:08
bring back capital punishment as well that will clear a lot of the prison out .
78

Nic83,

09/09/2008 12:56:57
My god, common sense prevails!

I think this is a logical proposal. Jails are overflowing with petty criminals, we need more labourers and released prisoners need a chance to develop new skills. It only makes sense to put them to work.

However I don't think this should apply to violent prisoners - just to petty criminals and repeat offenders. Otherwise, a good idea I hope will be implemented, though I doubt it will survive the petty political dealings of the opposition parties.
79

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:05:40
Nic what do u work at?

Are you well, middle class? Yes! You say

"prisoners need a chance to develop new skills".

Well, lets make them into joiners and plumbers? Yes?

And let them take the jobs of law abiding tradesmen? EH?

Add them to the Polish joiners and plumbers eh?

All you are really advocating is more decent people are to be put on the dole. AND you are advocating opening up supply - and thus we will see lower wages and poorer conditions.

Yes, I will now get the gaol in order to serve my time as a plumber eh? That is a REWARD for criminality ya balloon.

AND it will mean less apprenticeships for out good youngsters. Is that what you want like?

Are you thick or just a middle class clown?
80

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:08:04
Chain gangs? Aye right. Fifer, will u want the cahin gangs on your street like?

AND what will that do for the poor prisoners eteem? Yes, they all get out the nick mate. It will simply mean BITTer criminals get out of gaol. AND they might come back up your street mate - after casing your joint whilst doing their chain ganger act. Would u like that fifer?
81

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:11:55
Yes, lets giove all th ecriminals apprenticeships. Never mind our children who are leaving school like.
82

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:13:31
So the money to train them is coming from where? Who will NOT get the money that is spent training them? Our children like?

Why not stop free school dinners as well - give the prisoners that money as well - they need better food eh?
83

,

09/09/2008 13:14:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
84

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:14:54
Phd?

Only way to get it is mug a granny? Yes, why not.
85

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:16:10
Brage, read my posts. WHOSE jobs will they be getting eh?

Society, my friend, should repay the debt to the criminals by flogging their ashers for them.
86

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:17:29
fifer says

now starting to talk sense .the americans have the right system chain gangs doing work on the roads and other things image the saving the council can make have prison labour doing all the cleaning and gardening jobs and how cheap it would be to get the roads fixed. and for security just put armed guards to watch them that should stop any of them doing a runner.

Yes why not fifer - lets fire all the workers in council gardening departments. What a great idea. Lets train them to do ur job and fire u as well. WHAT a wally.
87

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:18:59
Phd and mug a granny! Excuse me readers, just off to my grannies house.

I can see my Phd coming. Just call me Doctor Tommy Tanker.
88

Salmond Rushdie,

09/09/2008 13:20:43
#91

Whether Nic is working class, middle class or upper class, who cares? - at least he/she can read and write. Which is a darn sight more than can be said for you. Your grammar is appalling - LIKE.

You seem jealous or angry towards the Scottish middle class. Why?
89

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:23:58
The Scottish "middle class"?

Define the middle class! On ya go!

Are you referring to individualists? Greedy morons? Con merchants? General wind bags? Those who are all debt and no substance?

Anyway you define it.
90

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:25:04
Middle class ladies?

All make up - hair dye - funny walks and no knickers?
91

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:26:40

Ra ra ra...

Is that middle class?
92

Salmond Rushdie,

09/09/2008 13:27:35
#101

You are the one that used the term 'middle class' in #91 - not me.

'individualists? Greedy morons? Con merchants? General wind bags? Those who are all debt and no substance?'

You've got real issues.
93

fiferjohn,

09/09/2008 13:28:32
weeberty
the council could do a lot more of the jobs they need to do with free labour .they have a problem that they can't afford to do all the jobs they want to do.
and as for casing the joint it would be a bit hard in leg iron chain to each other and with armed guards that will stop them going anywhere.
nobody needs to be laid off it just means that there would be more labour to help.
it works in states in the usa so it should work over hear as long as we get it right and make it plain you go to prison and you lose your human rights.

94

brettgallacher,

edinburgh 09/09/2008 13:29:28
what conman thought this up, get a rapist , murderer to work on this project thus costing the private company nowt for the labour then pocket even more profit, but take it from me the poles, lithuanians will go ape over this
95

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:30:03

I know everything...

Middle class?

Do ya have 2 b divorced 4 times or more and go to sex
clubs?

96

WeeBerty,

09/09/2008 13:31:58
Fifer? U really are thick.

So the council will take on all the crooks and not use it to cut jobs. Eh? ANd conditions?

U muist be a woman - is that correct dear?

Yes lets train up rapists and