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Italy 23 Scotland 20: Scotland's last minute defeat in Rome



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Andrea Marcato's last-minute drop goal handed Scotland their fourth defeat in this year's RBS 6 Nations – but Frank Hadden's men avoided a second successive wooden spoon by the skin of their teeth.
After conceding a penalty try during a poor start, Scotland scored two tries in 20 minutes through Ally Hogg and Mike Blair.

That was more than they had scored in the previous seven matches but they failed to build on it and Marcato struck the winning kick after a poor pass by Dan Parks had gifted the Italians a second try.

Italy maintained the attacking edge as they sought the five-point lead they needed and three came from Marcato's 35-yard penalty in the 71st minute.

Italy's Kaine Robertson tries to avoid Scotland's Mike Blair and Alasdair Strokosh Picture: Getty


Paterson completed a perfect Six Nations kicking record – to follow his 100% World Cup stats – by levelling from the 22-metre line two minutes later.

But Italy pinned Scotland back and Marcato won the game with a last-minute drop goal in a central position 22 metres out.

The Italians celebrated with Scotland's only consolation their superior points difference of three that saves them from finishing bottom again.

Scotland flanker Alasdair Strokosch admitted Frank Hadden's side were "gutted" after their dramatic last-minute defeat.

He told BBC 1: "We're absolutely gutted.

Italy's Marco Bertolami jumps for the ball with Scotland's Alasdair Strokosch


"We started the tournament badly but felt we progressed with every game up to the England match (Scotland won 15-9). We hoped to build on that here."

"It was a solid performance in the first half but we took our foot off the gas I think," said Strokosch, whose side led 17-10 at the interval.

"We dropped our intensity. We'd had lots of bodies coming onto the ball and flying in but in the second half we didn't have too many options."


The full article contains 305 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 March 2008 3:32 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Six Nations
 
1

Dave Scott,

St Albans 15/03/2008 15:29:30
Yeah, I feel for DP but he blows 'hot and cold' too often ... however it's not as much as I feel for the rest of the team. I know DP will be giving himself a bad time and it's fair to say that the whole team lost a bit of discipline in the last 21 mins but that would have been easier to bear if we had still been 7 points to the good.
Given the disastrous attempts at long passes in the first half surely Hadden should have issued a mandatory "NO LONG PASSES GUYS".
I'm sorry DP, I think you mean well, but you're not adapting to the way the match is going. I'm sorry FH, I also think you're a 'good man', but you're not getting the team clicking at the calibre they need to be.
Jake White anyone?

Also thought the ref was a bit retentive regarding the penalty try ... but quite a few good 'spots' during the game. Thought he was lax with Italian play at the ruck, and there was a lot of 'taking players out'.

It's about taking your chances though, so WELL DONE ITALY.
2

Exiled Highlander,

15/03/2008 15:35:52
Taxi for Hadden!!

And take Parks with you. How many final chances does this idiot get? How many times has he made basic, schoolboy errors which cost Scotland dear? The boy simply can't pass the ball to save his life, and his kicking game is inept as well. So why does he get a place in the starting XV?

I'm utterly fed up with watching the same players who have failed to deliver so many times before being given yet another chance, only for them to blow it. Last week was a freak against an England side who played possibly their poorest 80 mins of the last 30 years. We cannot allow that fluke win to colour our judgement of an appalling 6N campaign. This side must be ripped apart and rebuilt, and this must start from the top.

Frank Hadden is quites simply NOT an international coach. He clearly does not know how to handle international standard players, and he is clearly out of his depth on the tactical side. He is small-minded & petty (witness his ill-tempered remarks last week after winning), he appears unable to motivate his squad or to instil any kind of winning mentality in them. His coaching team appear to be doing nothing to assist.

We know we don't have a talented squad at present, which makes it all the more imperative that they are coached correctly and they are given the opportunity to play to the best of their limited ability. Hadden is a schoolteacher, not a coaching visionary. Time to send him back to the classroom and obscurity where he belongs. He can take Parks, Cusiter, Henderson & White with him.

Fundamental change is required, and it is required NOW! Wake up SRU!!
3

Exiled Highlander,

15/03/2008 15:46:54
#1 - Er, can you give me one occasion (just one!), when Parks has even blown "lukewarm", never mind hot? The guy is an overpaid, egotistical liability who doesn't get nearly as much criticism in the media as he deserves. I don't care if he's the nicest guy on earth - he's not an international class rugby player and if he had any dignity and self-respect he'd realise this and withdraw himself from the squad. Clearly he doesn't, so someone needs to do this on his behalf. He's an embarrassment.

As for Mad Frankie Haddock - he's a mealy-mouthed, grudge-bearing, weak-willed, spineless nonentity. Unless this was in the job specification for Scotland coach I can see no point in continuing the employment of a man who has proven unable to meet the SRU's incredibly low criteria of success. If he had any dignity or feeling for Scottish rugby, he'd realise that he's failed miserably and resign, but obviously he's putting self-interest first and what's best for the country second (hoping for a Williams-sized payout, no doubt).
4

Scotch on the rocks,

Buckinghamshire 15/03/2008 15:48:44
Absolutely disgusted.

Every correspondant has agreed that Parks is not international quality and should not be even on the Scottish bench. Paterson should have played the entire match at 10. Cairns or De Luca should have played at outside centre. Henderson should not have been on the bench. Where were our other three-quarters options (from the bench)?

In summary, Frank Hadden bottled it and manufactured a defeat when we should have won comfortably. He has failed to see what is so obvious to everyone else and must now resign. It is time to move forward with a new coach with ambition that will bring young talent through. Yes, there is talent ... as evidenced in the Ireland A match, but Hadden does not know how to use it.
5

eckythump,

15/03/2008 15:48:53
Let's not even begin to contemplate blaming the referee for this defeat.

There is absolutely no reason why Scotland should have lost this match if the coach had selected the right team and replacements from the pool of players available in the squad and 'A' team.
6

jdships,

15/03/2008 15:56:58
Hadden wrote the script and Parks stuck to it - end of !
Surely FH has been found out now : once a brilliant schoolboy coach mainly because he had, at Merchi', probably the best crop of boys they had had for years
Nothing , really, more to say is there ?

Just walk away quietly Mr Hadden people will soon forget you as you have done nothing to be remembered by !

P.S. Blaming the Ref is irrelevant as No 5 quite rightly says.
7

Donasdhu,

Groveland, CA 15/03/2008 16:07:46
Sad day for Scottish supporters but there is a silver lining around this cloud. Parks will never play again for Scotland, the rest of Scotland knew that before this and most of the other games but Hadden is either so dumb or so arrogant that he paid no attention to the obvious. Hadden loses his job and we can begin again.
8

Edinburgh Pete ,

15/03/2008 16:10:39
Our 6 Nations has been dogged by bad decisions; On Selections, tactics, and plays during the game

Whilst they have not all been down to Hadden, and we have had our fair share of injuries and crap refereeing decisions this campaign will always be remembered for what might have been

Today may not finally bring to the end the debate re who is best for 10 but should confirm that Parks can never be considered again for selection in this pivitol role.

Hadden’s persistence with Parks as with Di Rollover has just cost him his job. Idiot !!
9

tatties n, neeps,

15/03/2008 16:10:50
Hate to say it ,it would have been better to have lost last week against England and brought things to a head,the win was more than enough to keep the anti-english brigade happy but sadly Scottish rugby is now at a very low ebb.
10

Jack Barr,

Tomigaya 15/03/2008 16:19:31
I dont believe we learnt anything in this match. We have known since last year that our flyhalf cant tackle, gives away too many chargedowns, is susceptible to having his passes intercepted, and is unable to boss a game at this level.
We even know that he wont run back to attempt and recover his mistakes. Even rugby commentators in Tokyo and Singapore know this yet one man in Scotland appears not. Paterson will never have the number 10 jersey so look to the future and blood a confident fly half who has the passion and determination to run back and cover his mistakes, the willingness to tackle and youthful confidence to run at the opposition and create space to those around him.
Cipriani, Hook, Tran-Duc have all been given the chance - Scotland have nothing at all to play for surely the time is now to give the opportunity to a playmaker who can gain international experience at flyhalf.
11

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

15/03/2008 16:19:56
Another exemplary master class from Maestro DP, FH's Chosen One, in helping Scotland to another defeat. Great pass to Parisse, though.............
12

inoui,

Jomtien 15/03/2008 16:25:04
With Dan Parks and the Ref on the field Scotland were lucky to get within 3 points. Italy had moments but never looked like getting this win. Well done Dan.
13

Skoosh,

Depths of Despair, Edinburgh 15/03/2008 16:27:28
Scotland were murder in the first ten minutes of the game, but after that, had the better of the first half and deservedly led at half time. Quite what happened after that isn't entirely clear, but 'we took our foot off the gas, I think' really doesn't do justice to the haplessness of a performance that saw us lose the second half 13 -3, despite having the lion's share of possession. I'd like to think we've seen the last of Dan Parks, but with Funtime Frankie in charge, don't count on it folks.

I don't agree that our players lack talent, but the essence of successful management/coaching is the ability to put on the field a team where the whole ends up being greater than the sum of the parts. Frank Hadden has shown very little to suggest he has the ability to do that and it must be time for him to bow out.
14

Exiled Tweedsider,

salisbury 15/03/2008 16:44:18
Agree with pretty much all of the above. Frank Hadden picked the team, coached it etc and must take the blame for 3 appalling performances (v France, Wales and Ireland) and 2 pretty poor performances (v England and Italy - lets be honest we beat England because they played even worse than we did). Now lets see if he has the guts, dignity and common sense to resign now rather than go through a prolonged lingering goodbye. Lets face it we have only a few games to gain world ranking points before the world cup cut-off at the end of the year. As it stands we will be seeded below Georgia
15

Rugby rules,

15/03/2008 16:45:54
That was crap.
16

eckythump,

15/03/2008 16:52:31
#12 There was nothing wrong with the referee!

#14 totally agree, especially re: England game. If they played against us like they did today we would have lost by 50 at least.
17

big al in exile,

keswick 15/03/2008 16:57:43
was this not the day ceasar was knifed, i think its time hadden and parks were similarly dispatched.
we could argue we have lost most of our backs to injury, but the scrum has been poor all year.
we have no penetration , the game line seems incapable
of being broken by a scottish player forwards or backs.
with the exception of blair, and the back row, we seem to be poor. in most departments. the coach is only a master at inventing excuses for a poor performance including the shape of the ball.
its a pity we beat england else he would be gone.
grab jake white now. before england and ireland do.
18

Dave Scott,

St Albans 15/03/2008 17:30:31
'Blame' is too strong for what I was attempting express. There is a huge difference between blaming the ref for defeat and expressing concern about some of his positioning.
Watch the game again on iPlayer (how sad is that?) and compare the penalties awarded, at ruck situations, to Italy but not awarded against them for identical offences.
Didn't say the PT was wrong just 'retentive' - he could have permitted one more phase. I give the ref a good score overall but, without blaming, saw a few forward passes and blocks go unnoticed which were not in Scotland's favour.
19

Exile1874,

Wits end 15/03/2008 17:41:43
No! No! No! No! No! What a disgraceful decision to pick Parks at 10. What on earth was Hadden thinking of? Parks should never play for Scotland again (and argueably should never have in the first place) and Hadden must leave.

I am willing to accept that we may not have the most talented squad in Scottish history, but I don't accept that it is the poorest. We have many very good players who are either not being given a chance or have not been playing to their potential when picked.

Why, when there are plenty of wingers with potential in Scotland (and also other utility backs who could play there) does Hadden move our best playmaker to the wing when Walker became unavailable instead of giving someone else a chance? Why does he leave a good winger in Simon Webster out of position at centre and not move him to the wing instead when Walker became unavailable? Why does he bother taking Ben Cairns with the squad and then not even give him a chance to get near playing (especially when he has put the less versatile and previously dropped Henderson on the bench in his place)? How can Hadden think that putting Parks in the squad, let alone the team, is a good idea? What must you be thinking if you are a developing player in Scotland (either in the A team or a young player somewhere else) when even an injury does not offer you the chance of getting a step up to the full side? How could it ever be considered a sensible decision to go with only two backs subs (particularly when one of them is Henderson)?

20

eckythump,

15/03/2008 17:41:44
#18 If you spent as much time watching the players in iPlayer you'd soon see that it is them that loses a game not the ref. As many refereeing errors go the other way in any game as against your own side. Ignore the ref, concentrate on the players and how they have been coached or the game-plan which they have been dictated.
21

KD,

15/03/2008 17:55:38
I've always been a Hadden fan but I'm sorry, Dan Parks at 10...THIS MUST NEVER BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN AGAIN!!!

I still think he's a decent coach but I cannot understand the selection policy. We had such a great opportunity to bring De Luca in (or Cairns) in at 13 with Webbo on the wing but why on such a good pitch for running rugby with great weather bring on a kicking 10? We were then left with two No.12s playing in the centre just to slow things down even more once poor Danielli went off.

Scotland should NEVER have lost this game. I feel gutted for the team.
22

Leon MacRackpipe, catering and medical manager,

15/03/2008 17:58:07
Scotland had somehing like 65% territory 55 mins in. The only tries the Eye-ties scored were ones we gave them.

By the way - France to beat the boyos. WOuld like the Welshies to win the slam, but the 66% rules says only 2 home wins on a normal 6N weekend.
23

Exiled Highlander,

15/03/2008 18:16:08
#21 KD - What has Hadden done to make you think he's a decent coach? By "decent", you are implying that he does more good things than bad. So name a SINGLE thing he's done right in this season's 6N. Better still, watch his post-match interview with the BBC, in which he defends DP to the hilt, whilst hinting that some OTHER players didn't have a good game. He then blames the ref (as usual), injuries (even though the players who have been injured should have been dropped anyway - thus the injury list has actually HELPED Scotland!) and states categorically that it was the penalty try which cost Scotland (rather than DP passing directly to the opposition). He even says that Scotland have made progress in this season's 6N.

On the debit side - He picks the wrong players in the wrong positions, his tactics are abysmal, he can't motivate or engender any kind of team spirit, his sides make elementary errors at crucial times, he fails to make the right sustitutions at the right times, his public utterances have been cringeworthy and embarrassing for a man in his position.

On the credit side.....he's not Matt Williams..........

He clearly has lost touch with reality and must be moved out immediately. Too many times Scotland have made it easy for teams to beat them - that comes from the coaching & management team, and they should carry the can in the first instance. The new coach will deal with the failures on the park in due course.
24

Bruce the Lionheart,

Arbroath 15/03/2008 18:16:56
Why has no one including the commentators not mention the forward pass that resulted in the try to tie the scores. It was passed from outside the 22 and was caught inside the 22 = forward pass. Sore loser? Maybe but we should have won.
25

Exiled Highlander,

15/03/2008 18:26:46
#24 - I'm very glad we didn't win! It's obvious that the management & coaching staff are quite simply not up to the job, along with a number of players. The only way the complacent SRU will do anything is for Scotland to lose and lose badly. If we want to improve, we therefore need to take a few defeats, get rid of the dead wood and hope that the SRU actually appoint someone with some genuine coaching credentials this time (I think Frank got his coaching certificate from the back of a cornflake packet). It's the only way, otherwise we'll continue to wallow in this sea of mediocrity for evermore.

I for one do not think that a single win over the worst England side of the last 30 years is acceptable. We need change, and if it means we have to lose a few games for the SRU to sit up & take notice then so be it. I'd rather that than the alternative, which is to continue down the current path to rugby obscurity.
26

eckythump,

15/03/2008 18:29:45
#24 you are pathetic
27

Slippylizard,

Rock 15/03/2008 18:37:48
Will Hadden now have the decency to resign? He really should do. Ever since the world cup I have been convinced he is NOT the man for the job. We have actually seen the team go down hill since the world cup. The SRU really needs to step up to the mark here and start taking some responsibility.

The press were talking about other coaches jobs being on the line but not his, they obviously felt embarrassed about Hadden,how come he isn't ashamed?
28

eckythump,

15/03/2008 18:40:33
Congratulations to Wales. Shows what a good coaching team can do for a side. Oh, sorry - it wasn't that at all, it was because all the referees favoured Wales this year wasn't it?!?!
29

Dorfl,

South 15/03/2008 18:59:09
Only seen the highlights so far, but enough in just those to say:
1. Hadden's decision to load the bench with forwards wrong.
2. Parks intercepted..what a surprise
3. Italian try wasn't - Pass was 2m forward at least
Sum of the parts...TAXI for HADDEN & DP can carry his bages.
30

Exiled Highlander,

15/03/2008 19:05:31
Congratulations to Wales - they've been the best team by a country mile this season, I'm glad they've got their reward.
31

ronburgendy,

Kirkcaldy 15/03/2008 19:10:09
I hate to say it but i'm actually a little bit glad we lost as finally Hadden will go and Parks along with him. We are not that bad a side. We have a lot of talented players who given the right coaching and played in the correct positions can play exciting rugby and win matches.

Our players play against the Irish and Welsh every week in the Magners League so its not as if we should be running scared of the likes of Hook, Henson and Williams. Edinburgh have played and beaten them already this season so why is it when they put on a Scoland top they suddenly develop an inability to play basic rugby.

Its time to players who are playing well and on-form into the team. Edinburgh have been scoring some fantastic tries this season and Glasgow have a few exciting backs. Dump the deadwood like Henderson, Parks and Walker who have offered nothing, not just this 6 Nations, but in the World Cup and previous 6 Nations.

We just have to look at what Wales have done with a good sqaud and a coach who makes the correct decisions with regards team and tactics.
32

Dave Scott,

St Albans 15/03/2008 19:12:34
20 eckythump.

Eh, where have I said that the ref lost us the match? where did I say that the team weren't responsible? You're obviously on some self-righteous stint at the moment and willing, vicariously, to place the blame on the team and/or coach. How noble you are on the 'don't blame the ref' ticket.(Ahem .. NOT !!!)
Just learn to read I said I was NOT blaming the ref. Anyone can make these pious pseudo-fair pontificating statements about not ' shooting the ref' but in doing so it's not a real analysis. The one thing that all players ask for is consistency from the officials - otherwise how does one interpret the refs INTERPRETATION of the rules? Why is it wrong to suggest that the referee also had weaknesses?
If one of these weaknesses gifts the opposition a try, is it wrong to remark on it? If he omits a forward pass which 'gives' a second try, is it wrong to make any kind of indication of that? NO !!
Read my post again and you will see that any 'blame' is laid with FH and, particularly, DP - loathe as I am to blame anyone.
As for your "Oh, sorry - it wasn't that at all, it was because all the referees favoured Wales this year wasn't it?!?!" ... just grow up and make decent observations rather than massaging your ego by trying to score petty little points.

3 Exiled Highlander.
Take your point, I can't remember a huge performance from DP but he has played well in a few ... just trying to be fair.
33

Dave Scott,

St Albans 15/03/2008 19:14:41
30 ExiledHighlander

Absolutely, Wales have had that 'spark' and cohesion ... which, sadly .............
34

Glasgow Expat,

Desert 15/03/2008 19:15:40
Well it has finally happened. Rugby Union has morphed into Rugby League. What a complete and utter bore fest all these games have been. Shaun Edwards won Wales the Grand Slam. Why don't they just merge the codes now?!

And Parks not putting his body on the line when he should have gone down on the ball in front of the Italian forwards knees in the first 10 minutes just sums up his attitude towards Scotland.

Other than that I'm sure "the guys" will take the positives from it, regroup and bore us all again the next time.
35

Richardinho,

15/03/2008 19:16:47
F*cks, sake, there must be some way we can stop being sh-ite at this woefully dull game?!
36

JBA,

15/03/2008 19:23:04
Not only should Hadden be given his jotters but also Mc Kie and his cronies must go, it was they who re- appointed Hadden after the poor World Cup performances, and it was they who managed to decimats professional playing numbers in Scotland by closing the Borders. Competence and ambition must begin at the top
37

eckythump,

15/03/2008 19:24:42
Dave Scott

My point is that all your points regarding the referee are irrelevant to todays result or the predicament of Scottish rugby.

You say the PT wasn't wrong just retentive. OK. I say it was the right decision and whether it was retentive or existential or whatever is irrelevant.

You say there were Italian forward passes and blocks unnoticed. I say Henderson blatently knocked on before Hoggs try and many of our players blocked Italians.

Point is these decisions usually balance out and I am sick to death of people using officials decisions to mask the inept performances of the Scottish team management and players performance.

So yes. I am on a crusade for Scottish rugby fans to wake up and stop even insinuating that match officials are in any way responsible for our predicament and I am proud to take that stance. At least I can accept our failings. Which happens to be the only way to improve.
38

Leon MacRackpipe, catering and medical manager,

15/03/2008 19:36:12
It's painful, but maybe the loss brings things to a head. Supporters are going to lose the will to live if Hadden remains in charge.

Just think - this time last year Wales were in EXACTLY the same position! They beat England at home, but lost to Italy in the final minute by the same scoreline, and now look at the boyos!

And we took the spoon!

Progress all round?!

Bet now on Scotland taking the slam next year!
39

Leon MacRackpipe, catering and medical manager,

15/03/2008 19:40:47
BTW, is Andy Robinson really the solution? I think he's a good coach, but I thnk he needs someone along side him.

Maybe Lineen?

I don't know about Jake White - firstly Gordon McKie may be worth 230K per annum, but I don't know if the SRU would shell out that sum for a world cup winning coach.

Secondly, anyone looking at Scotland might see them as potential reputation wreckers, and Jake White doesn't need his reputation wrecked.

Perhaps a less established coach or a coach with smething to prove like Robinson is what we'll get.
40

eckythump,

15/03/2008 19:48:47
#39 I agree with your observation that Andy Robinson does not stand out as a definite solution, his performance with England being the obvious blot on his copybook.

Also, what world class winning coach is going to choose Scotland over either England or Ireland who are in a similar position regarding their current head coach?

So I would go for Lineen in charge with Robinson as forwards coach, but quite open to other suggestions. But perhaps they don;t want the job anyway?
41

KD,

15/03/2008 19:57:16
Dream team- Jake White in the top job with Lineed as backs coach and Robinson as forwards coach.

The SRU would never go for it though. 1) they need to find replacement coaches for the pro teams and 2) they won't shell out the cash for White.

Still my ideal team tho
42

KD,

15/03/2008 19:57:42
Apologies to Sean LineeN!!!
43

Lederblix,

15/03/2008 19:59:42
#38: we didn't take the wooden spoon - Italy did on points difference.
Incidentally I understood FH's contract is on a 'year by year' basis, and he had to have 40% success this season for it to be renewed - does this not mean his tenure is automatically terminated now?
44

BigRon,

15/03/2008 19:59:53
Well Hadden nearly got what he wanted, namely, avoiding defeat. His selection of Parks cost us the game. Dan isn`t an international player simpe as that.
even if we had scraped a win his selection of Parks itself should ensure Franks departure.
Hadden has been too cosy with some of his favourites.
Interesting to hear from Shane Williams that the Welsh players have the fear of God of Shaun Edwards.
Next coach will probably be Sean Lineen but I`m unsure he is the right choice.
45

Dave Scott,

St Albans 15/03/2008 20:03:35
37 Yeah sure, but in your pontificating you are imputing that I am either trying mask our own ineptitude or trying to hold the officials responsible - No, my discourse is more considered than that ... but neither am I trying to exempt them (players AND officials) from responsibility. I'm not being unfair. Read my opening sentences - I made my primary criticism of the Scotland coach and no 10. So, I think you picked the wrong target for your crusade!

With your 'crusading' attitude you appear to allow no analysis or criticism outside of the players. It's too 'Corinthian' and out of touch (pun intended). Most referees that I got talking to, in my playing days, were more than happy to talk through their game. Criticism ON THE PITCH was punishable ... and rightly so. The best refs were the ones who accepted where they'd made a mistake especially those who knew that they'd made a tight call, an over-eager decision or a wrong decision and apologised. The worst were the ones who thought they were beyond reproach. Unfortunately your defence of any criticism permits the latter type of ref. to carry on regardless. Of course we're all human and make mistakes ... that's a given. You may notice that I credited the ref with a few good 'spots' during the game.
" I say Henderson blatantly knocked on before Hoggs try and many of our players blocked Italians." hence my reference to iPlayer - let's look at it.

It's not rocket science to say 'things balance out' - such a truism is hardly worth mentioning and it isn't helpful. Surely the balanced approach is to assess what happens in each match, good and bad, and work to improve the standard of one's playing, refereeing, spectating and post-match analysis.

Where I believe you lack discernment is in your sweeping opener "My point is that all your points regarding the referee are irrelevant to todays result or the predicament of Scottish rugby." I agree with the latter part about the predicament of Scottish rugby, but his decisio
46

Dave Scott,

St Albans 15/03/2008 20:04:04
40 eckythump ... Gatland went to Wales !!!
47

Dave Scott,

St Albans 15/03/2008 20:06:26
Tail end to penultimate post should have concluded:

Where I believe you lack discernment is in your sweeping opener "My point is that all your points regarding the referee are irrelevant to todays result or the predicament of Scottish rugby." I agree with the latter part about the predicament of Scottish rugby, but his decisions most definitely are not irrelevant to today's result. What type of meaningless soundbite is that meant to be?
48

eckythump,

15/03/2008 20:16:55
#45 you are not talking on this blog to referees you played with today. Maybe I got your intent wrong, but look at entries 8, 12 and 24. The opinions expressed on referees do not add anything to the debate on todays game, Scottish Rugby, or rugby in general. And I have seen many similar posts every time Scotland loses. Surprisingly I don't see posts saying "that referee missed that forward pass of ours" when we win? In general, with regard to officials decisions, you might as well say "if only the goal post had been 90cm wide instead of 100cm".

#46 England and Ireland weren't even remotely looking when Gatland was signed. And if you believe that Andrew has no intention of looking for a replacement for Ashton because he said so last week then you only have yourself to blame.
49

eckythump,

15/03/2008 20:18:10
#47 Italy 23 Scotland 20
50

Robinski,

15/03/2008 20:18:42
I think Hadden should be the Lions coach as he's very tacticle and strategic. It's just the bounce of the ball and his players who seem to take the wrong option all the time. And, btw, Parks for no 10 in the Lions test team. His kicking from hand is thebest in the world and against England his display was imaculate. His Italy performance was just a blip.
51

MC Frankie Haddock, resident DJ at the Buftie Club,

Down wiv da kidz post match conference 15/03/2008 20:22:56
#43 lederblix - we took the spoon last year man, an' da walez woz in da same posishun to us dis year man.

By da way, I fought we laid down sam PHAT CHOONS in da backs today, it'z just sad dat me MAIN MAN MC LORD PARKS VADER span da decks like he woz on a mega bad pill man.

Maybe he woz in a K-Hole?
52

MC Frankie Haddock, resident DJ at the Buftie Club,

15/03/2008 20:24:27
Listen, me main man MC Kie, right, he get 230K a set man, know wot I mean, AIIEEEEE?
53

MC Frankie Haddock, resident DJ at the Buftie Club,

15/03/2008 20:28:56
De referee, de shape ov de bawll, de bounce ov de bawl, it woz all butters peeps.

54

MC Frankie Haddock, resident DJ at the Buftie Club,

15/03/2008 20:30:13
MC Lord Parks Vader woz on da dark side today. May da force be wiv him.
55

Steve Evans,

Malta 15/03/2008 20:33:03
Its great to be Welsh this evening!! and that was not luck, but sheer effort from all the players in the last twenty minutes.
56

Wuerzburg,

germany 15/03/2008 20:33:25
35 . No there is not .
57

Venachar,

15/03/2008 20:40:36
I wish I was Welsh!!

Mr Hadden please do not come anywhere near Murrayfield on Friday evening your safety cannot be guaranteed.

A Scotland supporter!
58

Venachar,

15/03/2008 20:50:44
In all honesty Scotland should not have lost that match.

I just hope Phil Godman, Ben Cairns, Nick de Luca, Ross Rennie, Simon Webster, Hugo Southwell and the rest of the guys get off their backsides for the rest of the season and prove to Hadden, Graham and Tait what a bunch of plonkers they are by finishing as high up the Magners League as possible and score as many trys as possible in the process.





59

eckythump,

15/03/2008 21:02:56
#50 Surely that is Hadden as Head coach with Brian Ashton as backs coach and Eddie O'Sullivan as forwards coach?
60

Aubrey W,

Fyfe 15/03/2008 21:09:53
Even this Scotland side will win games now and then. The sheer arogance and stupidity of FH in supposing that the win against a poor England side (playing away, but always looking more likely to score tries) represented more than a temporary bump on the ocean bottom of achievement and performance says more about him than any scoreline. WE know see the truth of Matt Williams' assertion, that 'this is where we are and it will take a lot of time to get out of it'.

Italy are so far from being a good side that Scotland should have run riot if they really had progressed at all in this tournament.

Scotland are consistently poor because they have an ordinary coach coaching a team mostly consisting of very ordinary international players. Look to the rugby base below this for any hope. Only if the regional sides succeed will we know that there are enough players to compete at international level.

Ask one more question. Suppose that we replayed all the Six nation matches again. Would an objective person bet on SCotland to win any game but Italy? The message is a consistent one. It will be Italy and Scotalnd fighting for the wooden spoon every year unless we are very careful.

61

AJ Fife,

15/03/2008 21:12:25
Shove your hoity toity b*llocks up your *rse, The real deal is East Fife winning the 3rd division!

C'mon the Fife!!!
62

Steve Evans,

Malta 15/03/2008 21:33:41
60. Gatland will not have to buy himself a drink for years with what he has done to the Welsh team this year, you cannot argue with the fact at what he has done for the Welsh game has now produced results. Forward we now go, but as to my second team Scotland maybe its time to look to a coach from down under, or is Scotland too proud to find one on their own territory? Having a real celebration tonight!!
63

Dave Scott,

St Albans 15/03/2008 21:40:01
49 Eckythump (again)

Look, if I WAS homing in on the ref. I'd point out that stating the score only reflects n your opinion where 7 points are gifted to Scotland and my opinion where (possibly) 14 are given to Italy (although Parks was the real giver of 7 of them)

THEREFORE ... (wait for it) his decisions most definitely are not irrelevant to today's result ,,, QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM (when in Rome), plus it DOESN"T balance out (your truism) - there's still a 7 point credit in Italy's favour .

Anyway I wasn't homing in on the ref. since FH & DP have a lot to answer for.
I beginning to think that past your 'crusading' you don't really have points to make!

I thought the rest of the team performed pretty well but still think our discipline dipped in the last 25 mins or so.

GIve FH the Argentinian tour, like Ashton to NZ, and see what that produces. FH should take the A team too.

Hey AJ 61 - well done East Fife.
64

Egg Chasing Ape,

Demoralised 15/03/2008 21:46:05

Nice to see everyone agrees on the quite straight forward reasoning for a quite awful Scotland performance. However, I don't see why we can't comment on some really poor refereeing decisions?

Continually ping-ing Euan Murray, whose scrummaged with his back parallel with the pitch and not his Italian opposition whose back was at 45 degrees and facing down, mystified every forward watching this in my own club?? The scrum was certainly under pressure, but Nigel Evans decisions in this area were terrible and his penalty try decision was a disgrace!

I was actually happy for us to lose this match as soon as I heard of the decision to bring in Parks, in the hope that it hastens both his and Haddens leaving!

Hadden's post match comments made me squirm! More excuses and how the hell have we improved in every game!!!!! He is a laughing stock.

My friends and I spend a fortune every year following the national team, attending most 6N away games and I'm sure many posters here are in the same boat. Its about time the SRU gave some serious thought to their long suffering fans!




65

Big Smoke,

15/03/2008 21:48:25
Haddock be a man for a change and resign in the morning and save some face for yourself atleast.
66

Skoosh,

Edinburgh 15/03/2008 21:53:17
39 : "firstly Gordon McKie may be worth 230K per annum"....................

Are we talking £s or Embassy Coupons? Either way, that has to be the funniest thing I've heard in years, although 63 "GIve FH the Argentinian tour" runs it a close second. All FH should get after this is the sack.

Guys, whatever it is you're on, you really need to give it up before it does you some long term harm.
67

eckythump,

15/03/2008 22:21:38
Real points - crusading or otherwise

1) Scotland have some decent players in their extended squad
2) Said players are not playing to their full potential or not even being selected for the national 1st XV
3) Little improvement in national 1st XV has been seen since the sacking of the woeful Matt Williams
4) Frank Hadden has therefore not significantly contributed to an improvement in Scotlands results or performances
5) Scotland are likely to become a third-tier nation at the next World Cup unless drastic immediate improvement is made
6) The action most likely to improve matters is a new coaching team
7) The above action would have been most effective after the last world cup as there were coaches available with less openings for them to go to
8) The inability to acknowledge failings and deal with them is one of FH's biggest weaknesses (something he has in common with a few other people)
9) comments on referees change none of the above

And in case you hadn't noticed Dave Scott, the score is still Italy 23 Scotland 20 hence the irrelevance of your comments on the effect on todays result - and that is truely QED,
68

Blutto,

Chewing the sofa 15/03/2008 22:30:27
Parks cost us the game again!

I predicted he would cost us 7-10 points. He didn't. He cost us 14. We would never have had to defend the 5 yard scrum if he hadn't thrown one of three interception passes first. Can someone tell me the last time he played a game without throwing an interception, getting charged down or missing a tackle? He is the worst player ever to play for Scotland.

He should never get to soil the jersey again.

The fact that Hadden picked him as the safe option shows that he is unfit to be coach. If he had a shred of decency he would have resigned after the match. A championship in which we should have been title contenders has been a disaster.

Hadden must be sacked and the error-machine Parks dropped permanently.
69

Jaimeson,

Scotland 15/03/2008 22:30:41
What a load of wankers most of you lot are. The complaints and whingeing and the outright insulting comments about Scottish players and management remind me of the English supporters and media in the aftermath of their defeat last week.
Scotland tried something new this week and it nearly came off. Dan Parks did some things very well today and some things very badly, but that's no excuse for some of the foregoing disgraceful comments.
70

Edinburgh Pete ,

15/03/2008 22:34:45
Jamieson, please tell me where in the match did Dan Parks do something well?

The we can discuss the bad things which cost us the game. This team was ready to go with Paterson and Hadden bottled it and we suffered
71

eckythump,

15/03/2008 22:42:29
#69 Sorry - what was the something new Scotland tried this week?
72

Blutto,

15/03/2008 22:55:51
I am astounded that some fools can come on this site after watching Parks today and defend him. How much evidence do you need? I can only asume they are either family members or enjoy watching Scotland lose.
73

Jaimeson,

Scotland 15/03/2008 22:58:10
Blutto
The biggest fool who comes on this site is you
74

graeme mac,

the land of the bog.. 15/03/2008 23:07:55
whatever has happened to the Laird of the Kitywherever, gone very quiet on that front.

even he must see that it is time to move on from FH and co.

# 73 how can you defend the indefensible- must be tongue firmly in cheek.

unfortunately there was a horrendous sense of foreboding after they brought in parks that this would happen- why could 99% of supporters see it but not the coaching team?
75

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 15/03/2008 23:31:47
Aye, they destroyed Scottish rugby when they killed off the Borders' clubs.
76

Rugby rules,

15/03/2008 23:40:16
one word - crap
77

Dave Scott,

St Albans 16/03/2008 08:35:21
67 eckythump - you again you naughty little wummer?

Oh 'real' points - great rhetoric and more pompous posturing - imputing that only you can make real points. The points you list are real enough but put more succinctly in "I'm sorry FH, I also think you're a 'good man', but you're not getting the team clicking at the calibre they need to be." (see post no. 1) ... which easily covers 2,3,4,5,6 & 8.

Now to your crappier rhetoric ... quote "all your points regarding the referee are irrelevant to todays result ". Oh wow, my points can't change the result, so what? ... another great truism? - excuse me while I stagger at how astounding that is ... NOT !!!

By by your own admission TODAY'S (i.e. yesterday's) result was conditioned by the referee (& officials) spotting (or not spotting) certain offences and/or interpretations.
I agree that the referee cannot affect the overall assessment of Frank Hadden's skills as a coach or Dan Parks at no 10 or any other matter you're trying to exorcise from your psyche but a referee/touch judge most certainly CAN affect the result of a match. Missing a blatant forward pass counts as one such instance.

I don't 'know you from Adam' but I'm pretty sure you would not be writing the same rhetoric had Scotland won 16-20. Frank would have made his 40% target and the only opprobium would have gone Parks' way for slinging a stupid long pass which was intercepted but thankfully, in the just scenario, the Italian no 8 passed forward and it was noticed.
No, the match did not just hinge on that one incident but since I think the rest of the team played very well that one incident proved costly psychologically and in terms of the eventual result.

It is my belief that the referee used the collapsed scrum/penalty try to make a point early on - a costly point for Scotland and a point which he did not consistently reinforce throughout the game. In that sense he affects the outcome. You're mistaken if the think refs are non-participati
78

Dave Scott,

St Albans 16/03/2008 08:35:48
You're mistaken if the think refs are non-participative ... therefore they do affect results ... Steve Walsh anyone?
However, if anything on our side lost us the match it was Parks' pass. Other than that I was really proud of our team. Even if DP's thrown pass had not inflicted such a great cost to the scoreline I would still be questioning FH's selection skills but had we won I would not be calling for FH's departure since he had met his target.

Oh yeah, 48 "England and Ireland weren't even remotely looking when Gatland was signed." - then why was the press full of Rob Andrew's uncertainty about Ashton. Why the big surprise in the English press that Ashton had got them to the final. There most certainly was talk about Ashton. There was also no doubt that EOS' job was on the line too. If England (primarily) and Ireland were substantially more attractive then Gatland would have waited. He saw potential in Wales and went for it. Surely there's a world coach out there who sees potential in Scotland ... you obviously do (points 1 & 2). If we can't get White what about Kirwan?

Anyway ecky ... I await your next bit of bombast. Have a peaceful day :-)
79

inoui,

Jomtien 16/03/2008 09:32:42
#16. usual missed penalties, wrong awards, etc, even got a mention from the beeb commentators. Seems to be par for the championship. Didn't make as many errors as Dan though!
80

Jakey_333,

London 16/03/2008 09:34:38
Whilst I understand the Scots upset at Hadden and Parks I am disappointed that there is little mention of one of the finest displays by a forward I have ever seen...Sergio Parisse... who was so far ahead of any of the other dross on the pitch it was unreal. At times he was not only the best forward on the pitch but the best back too! Andy Nichol looked an even bigger fool than usual when making him MoM. If there is a better player in the world right now I'd like to see him.
81

Jakey_333,

London 16/03/2008 09:37:09
Ooops....I meant making Strokosch MoM, obviously!
82

GavFaeMonty,

Oot o' mi tree 16/03/2008 09:53:28
And it's easy to forget Hadden's biggest crime - forfeiting the game against New Zealand last year. Disgusting, but had its fans at the time.
83

teribill,

Grantham 16/03/2008 10:10:43
Sadly game was lost on Thursday when Nikki Walker dropped out and Mr Hadden changed his plan by moving Chris Paterson away from stand off. Agree with most comentators that he should have kept him there and brought in Cairns at centre with Webstr on the wing. The delay in making the announcement of the change suggested a lack of confidence in Mr Hadden in what he really wanted to do. So far as the game is concerned the failure to go on from 17 - 10 early in the 2nd half cost us. We were on top but couldn't finish and paid for it.
84

eckythump,

16/03/2008 12:31:04
Dave Scott

OK you win, I've lost he will to live. You are long on words, short on logic. e.g. you berate me for not making any points, then when I do you say "imputing that only I can make real points". How the hell do I impute that?

Anyway, you're an idiot making ridiculous assuptions about me and not worth bothering about.
85

Dave Scott,

St Albans 16/03/2008 13:05:49
OK ecky, maybe I am an idiot - we all are at times ... the imputation was by your use of the adjective 'real'.

Please don't lose the will to live - even metaphorically ;-)
86

eckythump,

16/03/2008 16:59:05
Dave Scott

Are you a management consultant by any chance? You should be.