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Burley proved wrong as Hearts youths prosper



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Published Date: 28 November 2008
HEARTS BEAT
Exclusive series

PART 2
Behind the scenes: club is reaping the benefit of youth academy, says John Murray
CRAIG Gordon's £9 million move from Hearts to Sunderland pulled John Murray out of a hole, in the eyes of his critics.

Murray, youth academy director at Tynecastle and the man in charge of overseeing scouting, signing and coaching of youngsters, has been readily compared with his counterparts at Easter Road. Kevin Thomson, Scott Brown and Garry O'Connor earned Hibernian millions of pounds having developed from youth to first-team level. Derek Riordan remains an Easter Road prodigal son and Steven Fletcher is expected to be Hibs' next multi-million pound departure while Callum Booth's reputation already belies his teenage years.

Hearts, some would say, have had no such embarrassment of riches in recent years but Murray stresses his club are anything but behind the times at youth level.

"People forget that Kevin Thomson did youth time at Coventry City, Scott Brown was at Rangers first," said the amiable Northern Irishman. "At that time, Hibs had nobody else to play. No disrespect to them but they had a very small squad and a low wage budget which gave young boys a chance early, to develop quicker.

"We have boys here now like Andrew Driver, Christope Berra and Eggert Jonsson who are worth a lot of money; it is all about timing. If we sold these guys tomorrow, we would make millions of pounds."

The current Scotland manager George Burley was another who seemingly also took a dim view of the talent at Murray's disposal. Burley, during his brief tenure at Hearts three years ago, expressed surprise at the quality of youth players compared to what he was used to dealing with in England.

"I had a few different views to George," recalls Murray, who can at least smile about such verbal jousts now. "But he was a good coach, a good manager.

"If you want to look at England, you could ask why there are 55 million people and they can't find left-sided midfield players."

While Burley was not, in truth, at Tynecastle for nearly long enough to make a full assessment of the youngsters within Hearts' system, the matter clearly still irks Murray, who points out that several of the under-19 squad of 2005 "are in the first team now".

Murray doesn't do vague answers. Hard work is more his thing, 12 hour days at the Riccarton training complex routinely followed by taking in youth matches at weekends. The man brought to Edinburgh by Jim Jefferies, then as a first-team scout, more than a decade ago, hardly ever sees Hearts play "I get to the odd midweek first-team game," he said. "I get more enjoyment from watching the young boys play."

Murray's main competition when securing youngsters comes, he says, from both halves of the Old Firm. Celtic even made an approach to lure Murray himself to Glasgow last season, an offer he rejected out of hand without so much as scrutinising the terms on offer.

"Rangers and Celtic have spent a lot of money on youth development but this season at every level, Hearts and Hibs are competing with them. Hibs' Under-19s are top of the league just now.

"Youngsters get a chance here where maybe they wouldn't with bigger clubs. There are different challenges here, boys are not put under pressure to do things they are not meant to do. Here, we can bring them through at a slower pace.

"There is nobody who has walked out of here who I thought should have had a first-team chance and didn't get one."

Hearts have sold three youth players to England in recent times, Manchester United securing the services of David Gray and Daniel Galbraith, while Kris Paterson moved to Blackburn Rovers. The Tynecastle club did, however, attempt to re-sign Gray on loan in the last close season. Their current under-19 team, ironically in which the Hibs-supporting Craig Thomson has been the star of the campaign, defeated Celtic 3-0 earlier this month.

"Liverpool and Man Utd are watching our players every week," Murray said. "If they like what they see, we will get offers; if that offer isn't good enough we will say no.

"I'd rather have a player who wants to be here than one who doesn't. I tell all the parents, if the lad doesn't 100 per cent want to be here, don't come. We want players who want to play here long-term."

Given the often turbulent nature of off-field events in Gorgie, it is testament to his work ethic that Murray has remained in place and with increasing responsibilities under Vladimir Romanov. The academy director has, in turn, full admiration for the Lithuanian businessman.

"One thing Mr Romanov appreciates is if you are honest with him and tell him the truth," explained Murray. "Even if you disagree with him, tell him you disagree with him. I have had about four one-hour meetings with him. We talk about the future, what we are doing. At the moment he is happy and happy with what we are doing.

"He is a football person, when he comes and watches the academy games you can see he is very enthusiastic about the boys playing in Hearts colours. He loves football. People say he has a lot of faults but, I can assure you, he loves football. He is very knowledgeable, he knows everything that is happening at this club. He is a very shrewd man, who can come in here and talk about players that you wouldn't think he knows about. He has asked time and again for a list of all the players at the academy, from the age of 11 upwards then he will mention those names back to you in conversation.

"Every year the budget gets raised. We are currently negotiating to buy a couple of young Scottish players and we are looking for more. Anything we put to the board with regards the academy, we normally get it, be that facilities, coaches, players or scouts."

Murray believes a declining standard of youth player throughout Britain makes scouting for fresh talent tougher than ever. "Manchester United are going to Brazil to bring in 17-year-olds. You would think they could get players as good as that in Scotland, England or Ireland, but they can't."

The best player to have appeared on Murray and Hearts' radar within the last 18 months is Havard Nordtveit; hopes of luring the Norwegian defender to Edinburgh were ended when Arsenal were willing to pay £1.6 million, plus add-ons, for the then 17-year-old. "He is the only one I have seen in the last five years who I thought was already a great player."

Closer to home, the much-heralded Branimir Kostadinov and Dimitru Copil are yet to force their way into first-team squads. "A lot of people have built them up as superstars but there are no stars at this club," said Murray. "They have potential, just like the others. Dimitru could play at any level in Scotland but he has had issues with his parents and has been homesick."

The present for Murray and Hearts centres around proposals which have been submitted to Romanov, which would see a youth scouting network set-up in European countries such as Norway, Sweden and Denmark. "The education system there seems to be better," Murray added. "If you bring in players who are educated, you have a better chance of coaching them properly. They are more cultured in the way they play and their attitude is better. They appreciate things more and their diets are good."

Not that Lithuania is out of the equation. Arvydas Novikovas, a 17-year-old striker, has arrived in Edinburgh from Vilnius. "He looks an exceptional player," Murray insisted. "They think he is the best player they have produced in ten years.

"Vladimir wants to bring some of his own players in, which is understandable, so we have that, European scouting and an emphasis on bringing young Scottish players into the club."

TOMORROW: PART 3

How new-look Hearts are shaping up under Csaba Laszlo

The full article contains 1382 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 November 2008 10:37 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Heart of Midlothian FC
 
1

Championees,

The Emerald City 28/11/2008 00:15:32
Bto, your getting slow in your old age!
2

Maroon tinted glasses,

28/11/2008 00:24:27
Well done Ewen,
Another positive story from the JT's, The jury will still be out at the moment and actions speak louder than words but with the recent stability and their now being a visible structure forming for the future things will start to look up.
3

Victorshat,

28/11/2008 00:26:53
Pulled romanov out a hole too!!!
4

Maroon tinted glasses,

28/11/2008 00:28:18
#1 good to see the ablutophobes are once again more interested in stories from the CAPITAL than the pant wettingly hilarious implosion from tuesday night.
5

Maroon tinted glasses,

28/11/2008 00:31:22
#1 Given the disbanding of your own terrorist organisation will you and your fellow supporters be signing songs of praise at your next game for the deccan mujhadeen and their recent activities?
6

Victorian..,

28/11/2008 00:47:39
Cannot sleep. hi guys.
7

CALEDONIACO,

The Emerald City 28/11/2008 00:47:54
Now now lads, just having a wee bit of banter with your #1 fan BTO (maybe he's another moniker by now) as he has this fascination with you guy's, you might have noticed, but I for one have never said anything negative about HOM, so lighten up with the replies, you lot sound worse than ninny and royalty!

Good luck on Saturday, H 2-1 R and as you don't want us lot on you thread, I'll be off now like a good lad and thanks for the favor on Sat.


Ps 4 In a row coming your way, and you know it!
8

Choose a nameDr_Joseph_Phd,

Tynescos 28/11/2008 00:48:28
"We have boys here now like Andrew Driver, Christope Berra and Eggert Jonsson who are worth a lot of money; it is all about timing. If we sold these guys tomorrow, we would make millions of pounds."

Berra - £700k
Driver - £200k
Jonsson - £75k

Total = not "millions"
9

The Future's Maroon,

Edinburgh 28/11/2008 00:54:49
#8

Stay off the wacky backy mate. I may be wrong with the following but I am sure someone will either back me up or correct me....

Berra - offers came in for over £1.5m - Rejected.

Driver - Offers came in around the £1m - Rejected.

Eggert - No offers as yet, certainly worth a lot more than £75k
10

Maroon tinted glasses,

28/11/2008 00:55:52
#8 stay off the glue bud and then maybe it would help with your reading progression! Hearts turned down an offer of £1.5 million for berra at the start of the season.

God gave you two eyes and one brain, try using them in that ratio first before you start to babble. idiot!
11

Maroon tinted glasses,

28/11/2008 00:58:17
9 lol great minds, although i dont think the whacky backy would have made him that mentally impaired, i fear it must have been something opiate or solvent based!
12

CALEDONIACO,

The Emerald City 28/11/2008 01:00:55
#9, it's 5.04pm here (Seattle) and I can assure you I have never been an advocate of the wacky backy or the use any other kind of drug's, but thanks for the advice anyway.

Good luck on Sat! As I said I'll be off now, as it's getting closer to Guinness time.
13

The Future's Maroon,

Edinburgh 28/11/2008 01:25:07
Still doesnt excuse your silly post!

Enjoy yer Guinness!
14

Ex-Pat Stanton,

Melbourne 28/11/2008 01:47:57
Roll up! Roll up! Roll up!

Get em while their hot... Hearts players for sale. One previous owner. Genuine offers only...

Well, come on, it does read a bit like that doesn't it?
15

jamtart,

Beechboro Western Australia 28/11/2008 02:14:29
Dr Joseph Phd or should that be Dr Joseph Phuud.

A complete and utter fannie.

HMFC onward and upward

TOGETHER

MON THE JT'S
16

,

28/11/2008 03:54:53
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17

,

28/11/2008 04:00:04
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18

Championees,

The Emerald City 28/11/2008 06:39:43
Bto my predictions are,

It's squeaky bum time for your lot this Saturday.
HOM 2 your mob 1.
Your new moniker won't last into 2009.
Also, 4 in a row coming your way.
I also predict you know that!
Not to mention the HOM lad’s will be pi$$ed that your on this thread.

Who need’s Nostradamus? LOL.


19

,

28/11/2008 06:41:39
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20

Championees,

The Emerald City 28/11/2008 06:46:35
So was the roman empire, I did'nt know that about the golden one.
Does he get paid OT for it?
21

,

28/11/2008 06:51:36
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22

Championees,

The Emerald City 28/11/2008 07:03:29
Bto,11.08pm here, must get to bed ate to much turkey today (thanksgiving) then some Guinness. Did an exchange last week, my WAMU gave me 1.51, changed 241 got 169 for it, I'd be lucky to get 156/157 in the am.
One happy chappy, and hopefully even happier come Sat night!

Be nice to the HOM lad’s, and see if you can keep you name? Goodnight.
23

Championees,

The Emerald City 28/11/2008 07:17:46
Ooops should be.
Bto,11.08pm here, must get to bed ate to much turkey today (thanksgiving) then some Guinness. Did an exchange last week, my WAMU gave me 1.51, changed 241 got 159 for it, I'd be lucky to get 1.56/1.57 in the am.
One happy chappy, and hopefully even happier come Sat night!

Be nice to the HOM lad’s, and see if you can keep you name? Goodnight.
24

,

28/11/2008 07:57:04
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25

The Maroon Seasider,

Dunbar 28/11/2008 08:33:45
Does anyone have the link to Part 1? I missed it, and cannae find it.
26

GeorgeCowieOrWalterKidd?,

28/11/2008 08:39:38
"some would say, have had no such embarrassment of riches in recent years"

I take issue with that. Everyone knows that you don't get a good crop of young players every season - it goes in cycles. Before Riorden and OC'onnor they had a number of lean years while Hearts churned out McLaren, Naysmith, Johnston, Severin, Ritchie and co, not to mention advancing the careers of young players picked up from other clubs like McCann, Weir and Webster. Even during our supposed lean years we still produced Craig Gordon, who brought in as much as three of the Hibs players mentioned fees combined.
27

Motherwell Jambo,

Desk in M'well 28/11/2008 09:34:16
#25 Part 1 is listed as 'Ogilvie offers heartfelt defence of Romanov and insists: no 'war' with SFA' on the right hand side.

Enjoy.

It's still good to be a Jambo.
28

,

28/11/2008 09:38:25
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29

scorchio,

West of the Pecos 28/11/2008 09:40:44
I personally don't credit Murray with any of it.
If someone can tell me that HE pipped any club for the signature of Craig Gordon, they are talking mince.
Right now Berra is worth money, good money. Driver and Wallace are getting there. That's all I see, and I'm seeing them week in week out.
Craig Gordon would've walked over hot coals to sign for Hearts as a boy, same with Christof Berra.
30

,

28/11/2008 09:44:34
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31

Langenburger,

28/11/2008 09:52:29
Lousy headline and a real cheap shot at someone who would have won us the league.
Self justification all the way from an underachiever.
And unusually benign reporting throughout so much so it reads like a press release.
32

GeorgeCowieOrWalterKidd?,

28/11/2008 10:03:01
#29 Signing them is only half the battle. You then have to develop them into good players. The players Hibs brought through basically played together from a young age and were all put into the first team at round about the same time so benefited from that. Even Hibees admit they got lucky as they had no-one else to play at the time. And HIbs only got big money from the OF because those players breakthroughs coincided with the OF cutting back on transfers and having to go local. It's notable that there weren't exactly line-ups to sign any of Hibs payers - the OF battled between them which probably raised the final selling price. There's no way Celtic would have paid 4m for Brown if Rangers hadn't also been trying to get him.

When you examine the Hibs crop in detail, maybe they peaked too early - only one is really showing the potential to be a genuine star like Gordon (i.e. could play in the EPL) - Scott Brown. The rest are like lots of players in Scotland who shine briefly, maybe go to the OF, then scuttle off back to their old clubs, often via the English lower leagues. Steven Whittaker hasn't even played for Scotland yet - even our most unsung youth product, Robbie Neilson, has more caps! And SW was the one player from Hibs I really wanted Hearts to go for as we're weak in that area.

That's what annoyed me the papers went on and on about Hibs playing young players and Hearts signing foreigners. It was like we'd NEVER had a youth policy, when in reality that was just a two-year lean period (out of which came CG). Good to see us getting the praise now.
33

Choose a nameDr_Joseph_Phd,

Tynescos 28/11/2008 10:07:42

I'm aware there was interest from Wolves for Berra and it's possible they were willing to pay £1.5M and Burnley £750k for Driver but here's the rub...

Football clubs are struggling to find credit at the moment. Don't expect a mediocre player's supposed summer 2008 value to translate to January 2009.
34

GeorgeCowieOrWalterKidd?,

28/11/2008 10:16:06
#33 That affects all clubs who are selling. Conversely, players could be bought for less.
35

,

28/11/2008 10:29:18
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Choose a nameDr_Joseph_Phd,

Tynescos 28/11/2008 10:29:31

Correct but expect much less transfer activity as a whole.
37

,

28/11/2008 10:35:13
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38

Big T,

28/11/2008 10:43:03
First thing first I am a ST holder at Hearts.

The bottom line is that Murray has NOT pulled through the talent. I have met him on a few occasions and he comes across as a disciplinarian that verges on being a bammer.

If he had had O'Connor, Brown and Riordan at Hearts he would have hunted them as being "corner boys" insread of purely focusing on their football ability.

Hearts are NOT bringing through enough talent for a club reputed to be the 3rd top team in Scotland.

Sad but true.
39

Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 10:45:25
37

Tesco....on the path to become the biggest and most succesful Company in the world...£1 in every £8 goes to them

Harrods....a wee shop with over priced stuff....I mean £5 fur a carrier bag?

Woolworths....the original pound stretcher....god help them they gave it a go...
40

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28/11/2008 10:46:18
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41

GeorgeCowieOrWalterKidd?,

28/11/2008 10:46:54
#38 "he comes across as a disciplinarian" No bad thing. Hibs fans have long been complaining about the "ned culture" in their young players - it's amazing how many players with bad attitudes who get into trouble in town they churn out. John Collins tried to introduce more professionalism and look how that turned out!
42

,

28/11/2008 10:48:14
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43

We love fitba,

google! 28/11/2008 10:48:15
Is the Scotsman still part of the Hobo/SFA/Weejia anti-Hearts conspiracy then?

Seems you're falling over yourselves to praise this "well-written" article... any negative news is obviously a "total non-story" of course.

You can have it one way or the other, folks, but not both.
44

Engels74,

28/11/2008 10:50:52
This is full of contradictions.

1) "Liverpool and Man Utd are watching our players every week," then he says "Manchester United are going to Brazil to bring in 17-year-olds. You would think they could get players as good as that in Scotland, England or Ireland, but they can't."


2)He then has a go at Hibs for not producing Thomson + Brown by saying "People forget that Kevin Thomson did youth time at Coventry City, Scott Brown was at Rangers first," He then admits Hearts " are currently negotiating to buy a couple of young Scottish players and we are looking for more"

3) Finally Murray seems to know alot about Romanov when he's only had 4 ONE HOUR meetings with him since he has been the owner!

This is a PR exercise for the Vladsheep!!!! Keep following the path!
45

GeorgeCowieOrWalterKidd?,

28/11/2008 10:51:08
#43 What you mean like Hibs fans falling over themselves to pick apart any remotely positive story about Hearts?
46

Big T,

28/11/2008 10:51:52
#41

What are Hearts trying to produce?

Upstanding members of the community or footballers?

47

,

28/11/2008 10:53:07
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48

GeorgeCowieOrWalterKidd?,

28/11/2008 10:53:36
#43 Not to mention the fact that there are more Hibees and Bluenoses commenting on this story. I don't see Hearts fans falling over themselves to praise this, just some like me commenting on parts of the article they like or don't agree with.
49

GeorgeCowieOrWalterKidd?,

28/11/2008 10:56:47
#46 Both hopefully. Or are you saying that Riorden, to choose one, couldn't have benefited from being told to grow up and focus on his football? They guy's wasted a massive opportunity because of his attitude and the fact that he can't keep out the pubs for a week - and he's still trying to sneak into Edinburgh establishments - at 25 years of age. It's notable that Alex Ferguson is one of the hardest taskmasters around who expects his players to toe the line. No coincidence he's also the best at bringing through young players like Giggs, Butt, the Nevilles, Scholes, even Beckham etc who are renowned for their professionalism.
50

,

28/11/2008 10:57:54
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51

Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 11:00:09
BTO

Cant stand wine....

Now that Woolies has shut the doors....where are you gonna get yer Christmas presents from?

I hear Hertz are anxious somebody bails oot MFI....as they've just paid MFI their deposit on a new stand!
52

GeorgeCowieOrWalterKidd?,

28/11/2008 11:02:03
#50 None of that made any sense. Why do you bother?
53

Paulmac2,

Surrey 28/11/2008 11:05:28
52

He lives....er he's been sectioned in Japan...maybe that explains it!
54

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28/11/2008 11:06:25
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55

,

28/11/2008 11:08:07
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56

Big T,

28/11/2008 11:08:56
#49

So Jock Stein should have bumped Jimmy Johnstone when he was a young player?

And Busby should have got rid of George Best when he was in his prime?
57

,

28/11/2008 11:10:50
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58

,

28/11/2008 11:13:44
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59

Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 11:21:21
58

Or scrape marks on knuckles!
60

Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 11:23:29
58

Do they still have they old back street....i'll day it fur a fiver no questions asked teeth men in Embra?
61

,

28/11/2008 11:26:47
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62

Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 11:32:50
61

Don't you worry about Christmas....

Hope you don't mind...but I've sent you another Wattie style sleeveless cardigan with the traditional brown leather buttons and a tank top in matching colour!
63

Lion-O "Lord Of The ThunderCats,

28/11/2008 11:35:16
Why extend the scouting network when you can get FM09 for £29.99?? If it's good enough for Everton...
64

Jambo83,

28/11/2008 11:38:23
Ah, seeing so many bitter wee men obsessed with Heart of Midlothian Football Club just makes me even prouder to be a Jambo.

Your lives and your own teams must be SO dull if you get your enjoyment in reading and commenting on Hearts stories.

I know it's going against the apparent trend but I think i'll even comment on the actual topic itself!!

Hearts have some very promising players coming through and our future looks bright (just don't tell the deluded Hibs trolls like Sir Gay etc etc)
65

GeorgeCowieOrWalterKidd?,

28/11/2008 11:38:54
#56 I didn't say anything about bumping players. You seem to think it's a bad thing to have a rep as a disciplinarian. I say it's a positive and cite Alex Ferguson (and the players he develops) as a great example.
66

Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 11:38:58
63

That's what Lazlo uses to pick the team!
67

Royalist,

28/11/2008 11:39:11
A supercalygobalsistceltstheyareattrocious could be on the cards this Saturday.

I predict a bleak winter for the hapless hoops.

68

,

28/11/2008 11:39:42
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69

_NB_,

28/11/2008 11:40:34
Morning all, time for a round up of the weeks football events. I think Magnum Ous summed up the week best with his observation, "lets all laugh at Celtic!"
70

,

28/11/2008 11:41:11
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71

Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 11:44:06
64

"makes me even prouder to be a Jambo"

Does this mean you were not as proud as you could or should be?

Dear oh dear what will the other Ken's think?

I'm glad these threads have enabled you to improve your Jamboism...now I assume we can expect you to fully Jambo these threads up with some spectacular Jambo-astic nonsense!
72

,

28/11/2008 11:45:33
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73

Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 11:46:35
69

Careful Margaret....or you could kicked oot by the mod!
74

,

28/11/2008 11:47:11
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75

_NB_,

28/11/2008 11:50:57
#72 BTO

Practice makes perfect. The wheels came off the Celtic bus on Tuesday. Given fair refereeing, Celtic are there for the taking by any of the SPL diddy-teams.
76

_NB_,

28/11/2008 11:53:17
Where is the all new, clean & sober, Swordsman-lite today? I have a question for him...
77

,

28/11/2008 11:53:37
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,

28/11/2008 11:56:17
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79

Maroon tinted glasses,

28/11/2008 11:56:38
62, the sleeveless top!

is that the special edition scotland version with the yellow streak down the back, if i remember correctly it also comes with a free knife to stab people in the back and kneepads for when your old employer "comes" calling so you dont hurt your knees when you drop down rapidly to show your gratitude!
80

Maroon tinted glasses,

28/11/2008 11:57:41
77 so will you be changing your name to captain caveman then?
81

_NB_,

28/11/2008 11:59:04
#78 BTO

Take away a man's drink and all you have left is a husk. Good luck with the hair thing by the way.

The weekend is almost amongst us, as ever I will be getting my quota of the three S's. Happy days.
82

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28/11/2008 12:01:47
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28/11/2008 12:03:30
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 12:05:17
All time world club rankings:

1. FC Barcelona España 710
2. Manchester United FC England 628
3. Real Madrid CF España 602
4. Milan AC Italia 595
5. Juventus FC Torino Italia 584
6. FC Internazionale Milano Italia 532
7. FC Bayern München Deutschland 514
8. Arsenal FC London England 511
9. Glasgow Rangers FC Scotland 483
10. FC do Porto Portugal 405
11. AFC Ajax Amsterdam Nederland 400
12. Chelsea FC London England 397
13. Liverpool FC England 387
14. CA Boca Juniors Buenos Aires Argentina 374
15. Parma AC Italia 373
16. AS Roma Italia 361
17. Valencia CF España 352
18. SS Lazio Roma Italia 342
19. CA River Plate Buenos Aires Argentina 334
20. São Paulo FC Brasil 326
21. Club Atlético de Madrid España 287
22. BV Borussia Dortmund Deutschland 285
23. Paris Saint-Germain FC France 284
24. Spartak Moscow Russia 278
25. AS de Monaco France 277
26. Olympique Lyonnais France 268
27. SV Werder Bremen Deutschland 264
28. Club Brugge KV Belgique 260
29. CSD Colo Colo Santiago Chile 259
30. Glasgow Celtic FC Scotland 257

We welcome the chase.
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28/11/2008 12:06:41
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 12:08:26
#85 BTO

It is a mystery to me too. Maybe the compiler took into account their "worldwide" fan base...lol.
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28/11/2008 12:10:50
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Maroon tinted glasses,

28/11/2008 12:11:30
84 thats great but its all useless when your team is pi5h!
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 12:15:57
#88 MTG

What's your point caller?
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28/11/2008 12:16:04
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badger,

Edinburgh 28/11/2008 12:17:01
#44 engels

you should be doing your history essay instead of reading about the team your obsessed with!!!
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 12:18:00
#89 BTO

I am pretty sure that it was Ally who has converted McCulloch to a Center Back. Super Ally has the eye, he is respected by the players and fans. He is already a Rangers great, but his best maybe yet to come.

READY
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Daillyman,

28/11/2008 12:27:37
Nice to see every body getting into the Xmas spirit on the threads.

Should be a great atmosphere for the supporters of both clubs at Tynie tomorrow, Gers to come away 0-3 winners.

Tic to score 2 in the Caley match and split the points.
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Daillyman,

28/11/2008 12:30:48
95 RM

Not a bad record compared to,

Last 18 matches played away in the CL.

Away games 18
Goals for 11
Goals against 42
Total points 1
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28/11/2008 12:32:48
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 12:33:14
#95 Soraisis

p 18 W 0 D 1 L 17

Celtic's record away from home in the group stages of the CL. A total laughing stock and an embarrassment to whichever country you purport to represent on your tavels, or should that be travails...
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Daillyman,

28/11/2008 12:34:14
98

Naw just a new name for the threads. "PalofJames"
lol. as no one would want it.
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28/11/2008 12:34:26
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28/11/2008 12:34:33
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 12:36:13
#108 dv

Not worrying, just enjoying.
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Daillyman,

28/11/2008 12:36:22
103 RM

I just thought you liked stats. lol
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28/11/2008 12:38:03
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 12:38:17
Question for Celtic fans. Given that the club has played three CL's in a row which returns an additional £40 million in revenue, why are Celtic still £43 million in debt and can't put a team on the park to compete with Danish minnows?
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Red Dykes,

Tain 28/11/2008 12:40:20
Hearts - Journeyman team full of foreign dross who are making a living because the SPL functions at the level of the English Championship - My mate's a Jambo and barely recognises the first team some weeks - and thats not to mention who's in the dugout that Saturday.....Going nowhere - winning nothing - May end up as a 24 hour Tesco when Robbitov decides he wants his dough back
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Daillyman,

28/11/2008 12:40:36
111 RM

He also got a lot of praise for the double away to the tic in the 2-4 match. 2nd chapter coming soon
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28/11/2008 12:42:28
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 12:43:50
#116 dv

Care to elaborate on your abusive missive?
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28/11/2008 12:46:15
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Astaroth,

28/11/2008 12:46:58
Hearts = Woolworths.

Hibs = Jenners


GGTTH
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Daillyman,

28/11/2008 12:47:16
114 RM

Can't argue with you're stats.

Over the last 22 seasons 14 titles for the Gers and 8 for the tic. RM we could do this all day. The title is coming home to Ibrox this season. Bye the end of January the phone in shows will be full of tic supporters screaming for WGS's head much like last year with 6 weeks left in the season.

I think the wee man has done a good job for you're side, its just the purse holders @ Parkhead that wont open it, and allow him to buy top class players, and having pulled in at least 40mil over the last 4 seasons from the CL.
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28/11/2008 12:47:18
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28/11/2008 12:47:49
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 12:49:34
#120 soraisis

From Celtic's 2008 accounts, read and weep.

Celtic liabilities
Interest-bearing liabilities/bank loan 12,000,000
Debt element of convertible preference shares 3,027,000
Deferred income 820,000
Trade and other payables 16,224,000
Current borrowings 154,000
Advance payments 11,659,000

Total Liabilities 43,884.000
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 12:53:20
#132 dv

The london stock exchange:

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/en-gb

Celtic's annual report:

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/LSECWS/IFSPages/MarketNewsPopup.aspx?id=1931121&source=RNS
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I.J,

The Diggers 28/11/2008 12:53:24
Rangers fan - "Yous ur pure mince"
Celtic fan - "Naw, yous ur"
Rangers fan - "Naw, YOUS ur"
Celtic fan - "Naw, YOUS ur!"

It's genuine intellectual debates such as these that make me proud to be Scottish.
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 12:55:15
#137 dv

the exact link is:

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/LSECWS/IFSPages/MarketNewsPopup.aspx?id=1931121&source=RNS
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28/11/2008 12:57:11
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 12:57:34
#136 LJ

Your pure dead funny so ye ur LJ.


Question for you LJ, are you a petty wee snob who lives his life sneering at things he does not comprehend?
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 13:00:16
#142 dv

All you need do is look at the liabilities ssection of the balance sheet, simple.
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28/11/2008 13:02:48
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I.J,

The Diggers 28/11/2008 13:03:13
#141 - No, I'm a petty wee snob who lives his life sneering at the pathetic cretins who support Celtic and Rangers. Hope that helps.

And it's I.J, not L.J.

I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank the Old Firm fans who have kindly allowed me to take up space on their story about Hearts' youth System.

Thanks kiddies.
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Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 13:07:04
126

Brian....I'm surprised you've fallen for the falsehoods quoted....

£40m?....how has one arrived at this chosen figure?

Another fairytale repeated often enough by Margaret in the hope someone believes her?

Our finances are easily checked and verified...our accounts are open to inspection....

Meanwhile at the death star?....mmmmmm....

one word......OFEX.....hahahahahahahah....
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28/11/2008 13:11:09
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 13:13:17
#148

Thanks for the clarification LJ. I now understand the source of your pain. You are an outside looking in kinda guy. With your pudgy nose pressed up against the window of life watching others have all the fun. Football is a passion; football forums are a place for friendly rivalry to flourish. If you don't understand this or if you diagree with it, my advice to you is to dry your eyes and GTF.
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Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 13:14:03
144

What's yer point Margaret?
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I.J,

The Diggers 28/11/2008 13:17:34
#152 - No problem MB, glad to set the record straight. Or perhaps the sun. Or the mirror. Dependant on which one is getting boycotted this week for bias.

Or biased-osity as a certain pundit might say.
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28/11/2008 13:18:18
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 13:19:17
#151 soraisis

Happy to oblige:

Celtic liabilities
Interest-bearing liabilities/bank loan 12,000,000
(A loan on which Celtic pay interest)

Debt element of convertible preference shares 3,027,000
(Money Celtic owe to D.Desmond currently held as preference shares in case of bankruptcy)

Deferred income 820,000
(Money Celtic have recieved that they have not provided the services for)

Trade and other payables 16,224,000
(Money Celtic owe to suppliers e.g the pieman, the electic etc)

Current borrowings 154,000
(celtic's unauthorised overdraft at time of writing the accounts)

Advance payments 11,659,000
(More money Celtic have recieved that they have not provided the services for)

Total Liabilities 43,884.000
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28/11/2008 13:25:43
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 13:32:09
#159 soraisis

He exits for the day a better informed, but broken man. After ordering his "pinty-poo" I bet his first words are to the nearest other patron, "Hey big man, did you know Celtic are £43 millinon in debt?"
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28/11/2008 13:36:34
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 13:39:20
#162 BTO

No doubt Big Jock was a great manager. It is a shame that his time at Celtic ended in a constructive dissmissal; he was offered the a new role as manager of the Souvenir Shop. Had he kicked with the other foot he would have been offered a place on the board.
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28/11/2008 13:40:00
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_NB_,

28/11/2008 13:41:49
#165 BTO

Their biggest off balance sheet liabilities are the 50,000ish fans who see the club as the football wing of the Republican movement.
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Helter Skelter,

28/11/2008 14:05:57
Celtic have liabilities of £43m ?

Persley €rse in yir.

Celtic's net debt is around £3M and at the end of this season there will be an opportunity to reduce to nil.
When I last looked wages were running at 48% of turnover which is within the limit recommended by touche ross.

Celtic's turnover this year will be around £65m - £70m which could be as much as £20m more than the rearrangerz....we get a £5m start straight off the bat from the larger season ticket sales. The laptops bored us all to death the last 12 months about Celtic's wage bill but after getting shot of Gravesen, they don't mention it any more ....you never hear them stirring up trouble about Hemdani and Darcheville who between them probably take in over £30k a week.
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Helter Skelter,

28/11/2008 14:10:59
We'll see minty on cash in the attic before too long ...mibees john greig's shaving brush from the seventies, an old tub of ian fergusson's plook cream, and one of gazza's oul' false breasts ...thirty boab the lot ladies and gentlemen.
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SWORDS MAN,THE GREY BLADE,,

DUBLIN,IN THE GREEN. 28/11/2008 14:47:39
Afternoon Ladeeez...Cant believe its Friday and no decent competition yet....Have to put that to rights,methinks!
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SWORDS MAN,THE GREY BLADE,,

28/11/2008 14:53:15
OK...Classic cop shows that best describe the great and the good of Scottish Football?

I.E...Sid Murray = Shoestring.
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Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 15:06:37
Not a cop show as such.....

Rangers = keystone cops
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SWORDS MAN,THE GREY BLADE,,

28/11/2008 15:08:50
Glasgow Celtic...The Professionals.
163

Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 15:09:29
Wattie = Miss Marple (with the Margaret Rutherford face)
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Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 15:10:37
Peter Lawwell and Gordon Strachan.....the untouchables
165

SWORDS MAN,THE GREY BLADE,,

28/11/2008 15:12:19
Alan McGregor...The Swinging Detective...
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Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 15:15:44
Ally....Frank Cannon
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28/11/2008 15:16:22
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Paulmac2,

Surrey 28/11/2008 15:16:26
Right who is gonna fire in with the Ironside gag?
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SWORDS MAN,THE GREY BLADE,,

28/11/2008 15:16:38
Any Rangers fan who believes in a Championship flag this season...Life on Mars.
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SWORDS MAN,THE GREY BLADE,,

28/11/2008 15:17:34
Kenny McDowall...Kojak.
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Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 15:17:58
183

Are you supplying the pies this year?
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SWORDS MAN,THE GREY BLADE,,

28/11/2008 15:19:23
Charlies I.Q. ...Adam 12?
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Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 15:19:54
The Celtic ladies team....Charlies Angels
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Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 15:23:09
Kris Boyd...Chips
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SWORDS MAN,THE GREY BLADE,,

28/11/2008 15:26:11
Wattie and Sally....Moonlighting.
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28/11/2008 15:27:13
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Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 15:27:56
Naka....Cracker
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SWORDS MAN,THE GREY BLADE,,

28/11/2008 15:28:56
Neil Lennon...Minder.
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SWORDS MAN,THE GREY BLADE,,

28/11/2008 15:29:41
GTG lads..back after my culinary skills are used in the kitchen...
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28/11/2008 15:30:32
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Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 15:37:14
Who would have thunk it....rice in Japan....

Just the same as when you asked last time...tall young and beautiful...

Let us know how the hooker looks thats about to arrive at yer flat!
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Royalist,

28/11/2008 15:39:02
An easy 3 points for Walters men on Saturday.

It'll be nice for the Hearts fans to see a full stadium.

Im sure they'll get a rousing rendition of "your only here to see the Rangers".

I can just see the jambos fans big purple bolloonlike faces splurting bits of pie in their permarage.
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28/11/2008 15:43:48
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Red Dykes,

Tain 28/11/2008 15:50:45
Caldwell - John Seargant
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Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 15:53:01
"I moved the couch, and everything"

Is she a big lass?
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28/11/2008 15:59:47
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Keith Mac,

Edinburgh 28/11/2008 16:03:12
How cool would it be if the Rangers fans broke into a rendition of the Coronation Street theme music - they should know it by heart by now!
189

Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 16:07:15
I thought she might have said Harrow!
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28/11/2008 16:32:54
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Paulmac2,

surrey 28/11/2008 16:41:21
206

Wowwwwww...there cowboy....I know Japan can be a lonely old place...and yer way a burd....but seriously....get a grip....that wee back door suggestion that yer ma friend...is something I'm not sure I'm ready for yet!

You're gonna have to wine and dine first...one step at a time me old son!

And before anyone asks....he's not my son...it's just a friendly turn of phrase...
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28/11/2008 16:51:51
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Daillyman,

28/11/2008 18:59:04
150 Paul

40 mil, over the last 4 seasons in the CL. Surly that approx amount of revenue would have been generated by making the group and knock out stages.
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Helter Skelter,

28/11/2008 19:20:48
210

Daillyman, £40m wouldn't cover Celtic's overheads for 1 season.
196

NBJT,

North Berwick 28/11/2008 20:05:28
Why are Celtic fans so interested in this article.

Any fans of a club that holds a minutes APPLAUSE for millions of people (all religions) who died keeping this country free should be too ashamed to show their green and white colours!!!!
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Daillyman,

28/11/2008 20:37:49
211 Helter

40mil from CL participation over 4 years, was the point, extra revenue, nothing mentioned about overhead.

213 Waspy

One thing to say points to RFC tomorrow.
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Conman,

On the moon 28/11/2008 22:26:59
?
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28/11/2008 22:31:48
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Conman,

28/11/2008 22:53:49
Celtic must be feeling the pinch since being knocked out of europe, they are charging £12 tomorrow to have your picture taken with the SPL TROPHY..
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Conman,

28/11/2008 22:56:00
I'd fancy a lot of Rangers fans to turn up too!
It's the only glimpse they'll get of it for a few years to come.
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Daillyman,

28/11/2008 23:40:35
226

You are being generous calling them prima donnas. Just overpaid to me.

 

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