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Published Date:
30 November 2006
World to celebrate Scotland's patron saint St Andrew's day to be marked by events across the globe And 30 November will become a national holiday
Key quote "This celebration of Scotland beyond our borders reflects the way we have always looked to the rest of the world to share values and cultures, exchange ideas and develop trade." - Jack McConnell
Story in full IT WAS a date once ignored by almost everyone. St Andrew's Day, 30 November, barely registered on Scotland's cultural and economic radar. Just an ordinary 24 hours in the Christmas run-up.

But today, in an international symbol of Scottish pride never seen before, 67 nations will come together to celebrate Scotland's patron saint. Flags will fly, glasses will be drained and the willow shall be stripped again and again from Papua New Guinea to Montevideo.

The day will begin when a saltire is unfurled on Auckland Harbour bridge in New Zealand - 12 hours ahead - and continue with events in the likes of China, Uganda and Brazil.

And across Scotland's major cities, for the first time there will be co-ordinated activities organised by local societies with the encouragement and assistance of the Scottish Executive. Altogether a record celebration for a once-forgotten patron saint.

To confirm its new status, MSPs yesterday passed a bill to make 30 November a national holiday, while the Royal Mail unveiled the first UK stamp to carry an image of St Andrew.

The global celebration is Scotland's latest export. The Executive underlined this by helping send packs to British embassies with bunting, postcards and information about St Andrew.

As Scottish pride swells across the world, the hope is that trade, tourism and cultural links will increase.

The aim is to market Scottish culture and make our patron saint contribute an estimated £50 million to the economy, as his neighbour St Patrick charitably does in Ireland.

Confirming the new ambition in his St Andrew's Day address, Jack McConnell, the First Minister, said: "St Andrew's Day will be celebrated in countries in every corner of the globe - from the United States to Uganda; from Slovenia to Papua New Guinea; and from China to Argentina.

"This celebration of Scotland beyond our borders reflects the way we have always looked to the rest of the world to share values and cultures, exchange ideas and develop trade."

Scotland's target is to emulate the success in Ireland of St Patrick's Day, which in Dublin alone contributes £54 million based on the average daily spend of the one million visitors the five-day festival attracts each year. The first festival was held in 1996 after the country grew weary of watching huge St Patrick's Day parades in Boston and New York and realised it offered nothing to match.

In Vancouver, St Andrew's Day will see the launch of the Scotland Fund, a charity designed to funnel tens of millions of pounds of philanthropic donations from the successful Scottish diaspora back into Scottish projects.

The charity is modelled on Ireland Funds, which last year raised more than £18 million from affluent Irish-Americans. George Reid, the presiding officer of the Scottish Parliament, will attend tonight's launch.

Canada was chosen to kick-start the charity on account of the 4.2 million residents who consider themselves of Scottish ethnic heritage.

Dennis Canavan, the independent MSP who piloted the public holiday bill through parliament, said he hoped it would generate a change of attitude. He said: "If St Andrew's Day were recognised at home as a national holiday, that would enhance national celebrations and help to promote Scotland on the world stage.

The bill will be a parliamentary proclamation in favour of making St Andrew's Day a national holiday."

However, the question of how St Andrew's Day should be marked has puzzled most, as, unlike, for instance, Burns Night, it lacks a recognisable theme. Tonight, ceilidhs will be held in Edinburgh and Stirling, while Glaswegians will attempt to dance the Gay Gordons on ice. An edible replica of the Stone of Destiny will be unveiled in the Great Hall at Edinburgh Castle, then cut by Chris Paterson, the Scottish rugby captain.

Yet what exactly is the correct manner to celebrate a saint who never set foot in Scotland, though his tooth, arm bone, kneecap and some fingers apparently did? It would seem to involve a generous contribution to the homeland.

St Andrew's Day to be national holiday


A BILL to make St Andrew's Day a day of national celebration in Scotland was passed yesterday in the Scottish Parliament.

Independent MSP Dennis Canavan, who first introduced the bill two years ago, received backing from all sides of the parliament. The bill eventually won the support of Jack McConnell, the First Minister, who initially voiced doubts.

It would create a holiday on St Andrew's Day, or on the following Monday if it falls over a weekend. But Mr McConnell has said it should be a substitute for a local holiday, rather than an additional one.

A Holyrood committee endorsed the bill, but said employers would not be obliged to grant it as part of employee holiday entitlement.

Addressing the chamber during a final debate on the bill, Mr Canavan stressed the importance of marking the day as millions of expats around the world do every year.

"If St Andrew's Day was properly recognised at home as a national holiday, that would enhance those international celebrations and help promote Scotland on the world stage," he said.

Tom McCabe, the finance minister, said the bill was "symbolic" and a signal of greater celebrations and awareness of St Andrew's Day.

"We believe that the government needs to take the lead in promoting the celebration of St Andrew's Day," he said.

"We have invested over £300,000 this year on St Andrew's Day events."

Stamp of authority


THE first postage stamp to carry an image of Scotland's patron saint was unveiled yesterday.

The design, depicting St Andrew, is among a collection of four stamps issued to coincide with the national day.

Jack McConnell presented a special framed edition of the stamps to Celtic footballers Gary Caldwell and Kenny Miller at Edinburgh Castle, which is also featured in the collection.

Other iconic Scottish images making up the set include the Lion Rampant and the Saltire.

SLOVENIA:


The Slovenian-Scottish Friendship Society is hosting an event in Ljubljana, the capital, attended by the local mayor, 250 prominent members of the business community and, as a guest of honour, the Provost of North Ayrshire, Drew Duncan. Scottish pipers will be playing while actors will entertain the guests with recitations of the work of Robert Burns in both English and Slovene.

POLAND:


Tradition in Poland dictates that St Andrew's night allows the future marital status of a girl to be predicted. The Scots saint tends to use hardened wax, instead of a crystal ball . One ritual involves pouring melted wax through a key and into a bowl of hot water. The hardened wax is then scooped out of the water and held to the light. The shape it casts on a wall is used to determine the girl's future.

FRANCE:


The Auld Alliance is toasted in whisky at a pub in Paris, appropriately named the Auld Alliance. Patrons who arrive in a kilt tonight are entitled to a free dram, while the menu offers haggis, neeps and tatties. The music is that of the pipes, and there is a competition for the best person dressed in tartan. On Saturday night, the southern town of Montpellier will host a St Andrew's Day ball.

AUSTRALIA


Links to Scotland's patron saint Down Under are marked in different ways.

Traditionally, the Burns Club in Canberra is hosting a special St Andrew's Day event for over 300 guests.

But the Royal Melbourne Hospital is marking St Andrew's Day in recognition of the number of bone marrow transplants which take place between Australia and Scotland.

BRAZIL:


The St Andrew Society of the state of São Paulo begins its celebrations with a round of golf. Formed on 11 February, 1924 by 19 Scots drawn from the textile, engineering, banking and railway industries, the society has flourished over the decades. The first official banquet to celebrate St Andrew's Day was held the year the society was formed . A dinner-dance follows the golf competition.

NEW ZEALAND:


The first St Andrew's Day celebration of 2006 was in New Zealand. The 30th of November dawned first in Auckland where, at first light, a giant saltire, stretching 7 metres by 3.5 metres, was hung from the city's Harbour Bridge by Thomas Robertson, the principal of Kelvin Road School and a member of the Scottish Country Dancing Association.

RUSSIA:


In the city of Pskov, university students take to the celebration of St Andrew's Day with a rigour rarely seen in Scotland. Prior to 30 November, there are lectures on Scottish history and national characteristics. The highlight is a play, St Andrew's Day in Glenbervy, a historical farce set around a laird's estate in the 16th century. Students dress in historical costume and act out the story.

INDIA:


The Scottish Country Dance group in Madras have met each Friday night in members' homes to indulge in their passion for Strip the Willow since the mid-1970s. Tonight, however, the group, under current chieftain, Mrs Lakshmi Ramakrishnan, will hold their annual St Andrew's Day dinner, with the haggis provided by whichever member, relative or family friend has recently visited Scotland.

MALAYSIA:


The Selangor St Andrew's Society was established in 1877 and draws its membership from Scots, descendants of Scots, and Malaysians or others interested in Scottish culture. The highlight of the year, with the possible exception of Burns Night, is the St Andrew's celebration.

This year's event is to be held tomorrow night, when pipers will perform and guests will be dressed in their best tartan.

PAPUA NEW GUINEA:


The British High Commissioner will host a traditional St Andrew's night, with free-flowing whisky and Scottish fare, such as haggis and other delicacies, as a means of celebrating the departure of his deputy and the arrival of his replacement.

The missionary, James Chalmers, or Tamate as he was known, is one of Papua New Guinea's most famous Scots residents.

ZAMBIA:


The Caledonian Society celebrates the date with an annual ball, Scottish fare and an array of whiskies. The music ranges from the traditional skirl of the pipes to local Zambian hits spun in the wee small hours by the resident Scottish DJ. The event, in Lusaka, is the responsibility of Deirdrie Bailey, secretary of the society that unites expats with enthusiasts of Scots history.

THE US:


Almost every state has a Scottish society. The Illinois St Andrew's Society, founded in 1845, will crown its own Heather Queen, who is given life membership to the society and expected to act as an ambassador. In Washington DC a glittering reception will be held at the British Embassy, while on Cape Cod, the Highland Light Scottish Society will enjoy a St Andrew's Day dinner.

The full article contains 1844 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Faye,

Scotland 30/11/2006 01:12:54

Is Joke McConnell is setting things up for Independence?

2

Freeman Stand,

30/11/2006 01:21:42

If we're having a national holiday, it must mean we're a nation. If we're a nation, we must be independent. It's time.

3

BillyB,

30/11/2006 02:00:59

12th july also should be a pubic holiday.

4

Scottish Lass,

Louisiana 30/11/2006 02:11:17

Down here on the bayou my St Andrew's flag will be proudly flying.

5

Texas Katie,

US 30/11/2006 02:51:08

Here we celebrate 'Texas Day of the Scots' as first proclaimed by President George W Bush when he was Governor of Texas, the St Andrew's flag will be flying in our street.

6

Bryan johnston,

Auckland 30/11/2006 03:30:56

have to say it was good to see the old flag flying on the bridge this morningon the way to work. 1st break was fantastic a round of shrotbread and irn bru for all in the office, finishing after work with a fine wee malt in the local, just a pity the haggis down here is terrible.

Does anybody wonder why we have a patron saint who never set foot in out country. Maybe time for a new one. Saint Walter Smith (if we qualify) Saint Frank Hadden (If we win) Saint Barrs (the maker of the best bru in the world) Saint Vladimer Romanov - not likely.

7

lobout,

Alaska 30/11/2006 04:15:41

Having moved to Alaska and seen all the cars with US flag bumper stickers I felt I had to respond with a St Andrews cross on mine.

8

Bret,

New York 30/11/2006 05:20:13

#3 What kind of holiday? Maybe you want ot read your post again.

9

Media 1,

Cape Town 30/11/2006 06:30:51

What is St Andrews day?

10

noremac,

St Andrews 30/11/2006 06:39:33

Where is Cape town?

11

EricBaku,

Baku Azerbaijan 30/11/2006 06:51:05

We had our St Andrews ball last Saturday night in Baku where 750 people enjoyed a great night of Scottishness.

12

Encephalon,

30/11/2006 06:55:21

St Andrew's Day-who cares?

More Brigadoon tartan and shortbread crap which will no doubt provide McConnell with even more exotic destinations to fly to.

13

Comment is Free,

U.S. 30/11/2006 07:18:31

Siol nan Alba go bragh!

14

mcsponger,

England 30/11/2006 07:32:45

Excellent, you are all so proud of Scotland that none of you live there.....

15

Dave,

Western Isles 30/11/2006 07:35:02

Inlcuding you mcsponger or are you not proud of Scotland?

16

mcsponger,

England 30/11/2006 07:43:30

Dave

No

17

St Andrew,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 08:02:13

Nothing like a bit of flag waving to bring out the patriotism of all those who abandoned Scotland.

18

Man in the middle,

30/11/2006 08:06:43

What's to be proud about living in Scotland?

19

Brumont,

Qatar 30/11/2006 08:13:23

With a name involving "sponger", I suspect we are not very proud of you either.
By the way, we, who live/work abroad, and remit back to Scotland, are a significant part of what keeps Scotland (and England) in imports............
We had our St Andrews night earlier, due to the clash with the commencement of the Asian Games, but a good time was had by all the 350 who attended.
Best wishes Scotland!!!!

20

tog,

30/11/2006 08:23:59

Nice to know that even more folks around the world will know that Scotland is the land where men wears skirts, bagpipes are played and we hunt the haggis. We already have Burn's night, Hogmanay and this strange beast called Tartan day. And how many more times must we hear "It's time" before next May. The SNP have come up with their most irritating slogan yet.

21

James, Edinburgh,

30/11/2006 08:25:27

I don't know why you picked on Zambia, apart from the fact that it begins with a 'Z'. I lived in Lusaka in the early 1970's and St.Andrew's day was 'THE' day on the Scots' Calendar. We took over a hall for the night, haggis was flown in from McSweens and the entertainers were flown out by British Caledonian Airways. Teachers Whisky suplied the prizes (and large quantities at that). On one memorable occasion, Kathy Kaye and her husband, Archie McCulloch provided the cabaret and two pipers from the British Caledonian Pipe Band were on hand to add to the fun. In actual fact, the Scots made a week of it, beginning in the towns on the Copperbelt and moving south to reach Lusaka for the 30th. (the 1st of December was a quiet day!)

22

,

30/11/2006 08:42:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 200122, Article id was mapped to record!
23

Doug,

Dunfermline 30/11/2006 08:45:05

Happy St Andrew's Day to Scots here and worldwide.

For those blogging in from outwith Scotland...please come home, we'll be needing your skills and talents soon.

The day I really want to celebrate however is INDEPENDENCE DAY !!!...and it can't come soon enough.

And for you Tog ( #20 ) it's time.

24

wayne bijlyeerheid,

30/11/2006 08:51:50

I notice one country that does recognise St Andrew's day, Jamaica, whose national holiday is Independence Day 30 November and flag is St Andrew's cross seems to have slipped through without a mention.

25

Biggar Mac,

30/11/2006 08:56:31

Some of us have come back to live in Scotland after spending our working life outwith this wonderful land.

Exiles probably celebrate St Andrews day (and Burns night) more than those who stayed at home.

#3 Billy That day is not relevant to Scotland.

26

Jim. Texas, U.S.A.,

30/11/2006 08:59:09

HAPPY ST.ANDREW'S DAY!

27

Topcat,

Glasgow 30/11/2006 09:00:48

I am glad we have so many people all over the world showing people that Scotland has some very good people. You never know what you had until it is gone!

28

williamx,

Delta 30/11/2006 09:03:41

Dream on boys and girls. I presume the Where's CapeTown blogger is a graduate of St Andrews University in Geography, one of the 30% Scottish students intake.I am surprised St Andrews University is not called "The English University of St Andrews" some thing like "The American University of Beruit"

29

Derek,

Southampton,England 30/11/2006 09:05:45

Good on you Scots, celebrate your national day. Scotland's a great country with a great heritage and you should be proud to fly the flag for the world to see.
(from an English nationalist)

30

Lock,

30/11/2006 09:05:58

Russia celebrating their own saints day?

Amazing!

31

Dave,

Western Isles 30/11/2006 09:08:48

Likewise Derek, happy St Georges day, when it comes.

32

Kev,

Edinburgh Scotland 30/11/2006 09:08:57

St Andrerws day great, not!, until its a public holiday its another day a the mill, no big deal.

33

Gusto,

30/11/2006 09:11:02

Thats a lot of free advertising for SCAPA....

34

,

30/11/2006 09:11:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 200188, Article id was mapped to record!
35

Lock,

30/11/2006 09:16:38

Surely in this 'secular' society of ours where religious bits and bobs are being driven out william nilliam Saints days should be punted as well.

What will the non Christians think? If I was a counciller I'd ban it!

36

Mr Thai Land,

Bangkok 30/11/2006 09:17:05

Maybe people should get their council's to organise parades or gatherings in parks with a bonfire with tatties in foil in it.

And, after a few drops of whisky, everyone (no matter what their race, colour or religion is) can sing this song as a way of showing their pride at being part of what could be a great wee country:

*********************************
I could tell the meaning of a word like serene
I got some 'O' Grades when I was sixteen
I can tell the difference between magarine and butter
I can say "Saskatchewan" without starting to stutter

But I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand

I could get a broken jaw from being in a fight
I know its evening when day turns to night
I can understand why Stranraer lie so lowly
They could save a lot of points by signing Hibs Goalie

But I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand

We fight - when they ask us
We boast - then we cower
We beg
For a piece of
Whats already ours

Once I thought I could make God a bribe
So I said I was in his lost tribe
Getting handouts can be so frustrating
"Get in line son, there's five million waiting"

I can't understand why you let someone else rule your land, cap in hand
I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand
I can't understand why you let someone else rule your land, cap in hand

*********************************
But then, I am only assuming from the comments on this notice board that those people who live in Scotland have finally found some dignity and self respect, instead of the bitching, self loathing keech that used to prevail.

Happy St. Andrews day to one and all.

37

Mr Thai Land,

Bangkok 30/11/2006 09:22:18

*35 Lock

You are right that national celebrations should be detached from religious festivals etc. But the fact that Scotland is finally trying to celebrate its people, past and present, is a humungous step. Let's just savour a moment that would have been near impossible to achieve this time last year.

I, for one, am proud of Mr Canavan for starting this.

38

,

30/11/2006 09:25:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 200218, Article id was mapped to record!
39

Craig Munro,

30/11/2006 09:29:47

Excellent stuff!!......now why couldn't we have done this sooner....say 300 years ago?

40

Reiver,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 09:32:09

If its only voluntary how can anyone in their right mind think that it counts for anything ... yes, it just shows the true power of the wee pretendie parliament ...

If the Stock Exchange is open for trading on St Andrews day the financial districts in Scotland, which includes most of Edinburgh and a large part of Glasgow, even some pockets managed from Dundee and Stirling will be open for business ... good to see Mr McConnell has his finger on the pulse (as usual !!!) ...

Mr Thailand ... Glasgow had the largest Irish population in the world following the diaspora from the potatoe famine - the Irish (not even considering that it was an Irish band the Scotti who settled here and gave us our current name) are very much a part of Scotland ... and as a fifth generation Irish Scot I'm glad the like's of you have moved to south east Asia ...

41

GP,

30/11/2006 09:35:50

34# well said Jim.
Texas and it's Scottish connections is a great place loved every minute of my time there. As with most of the other parts of the USA I have visited.
I just wished that we could allow all our cousins and absentee sons a vote on whether we get independence or not I think I know which way the vote would go.
I come from a long line of labour voters in fact labour party didn't exist until older relatives started it. But they would be ashamed of it now really ashamed.

It's a pity Joke does not have the power or the balls to proclaim it a national holiday full stop, no he had to say well if you want.
Wee timid cowerring beastie!

Burns night should have a public holiday after it.
Don't know about the 12th July BillyB but we should be able to celebrate our Scottishness and all things associated with it. Perhaps a Knox day would be more apt. I would do away with all the royal associated holidays and make our public holidays more related to our heritage.
New year and 2nd should definately be public holidays for many reasons.
St Andrews day
Burns day.
Knox or reformation day.
T in the park day (summer solstice)
Winter solstice
plus xmas and bxoing day

oh and of course - INDEPENDENCE DAY

42

bill-alba,

fife 30/11/2006 09:37:27

Happy St andrews day to all...(pity it isnt happy independence day 6th april)

43

bill-alba,

fife 30/11/2006 09:39:22

GP....boxing day is an english holiday and the 12th of July is a day some idiots wear a sash

44

Jim. Texas, U.S.A.,

30/11/2006 09:39:52

Mr. Thai Land (#38) I have always found Irish people to be the life and soul of any party!

45

Rubbersnap,

30/11/2006 09:52:09

Not being a Christian, patron saints have no meaning for me. I also live in a multi-cutural society where religion has many faces ... none of which I espouse!

Therefore, what's the point of a St Andrew's (whose own existence is unproven) Day??

Utter nonsense!

46

JohnDarroch,

johndarroch 30/11/2006 09:53:19

I have to hope Mr Thai land is trying to be ironic in some fashion

47

Kilted_kangaroo,

Australia 30/11/2006 09:55:43

Three peeple at skool said"happy Saint Andrrew's Day to me. Fiar made mah day it did. Ah canny wait 'til ah get mah oor Wullie or The Broons annual in a few weeks too. Geeze it's good tae be Scoaish.

48

Wee John,

West lothian, Scotland 30/11/2006 10:03:03

Not before time.
Next, Independence.

49

GP,

30/11/2006 10:03:54

44# read my post again. I was referring to a previous post as far as 12th july.
Kneejerk reaction post from you, I accept your apology in advance.

Boxing day is a public holiday in scotland and I see no point in changing it.

Try and take your time reading things through fully.

50

Jim. Texas, U.S.A.,

30/11/2006 10:05:02

Rubbersnap, Why don't you get a wee rubber band, put it around your wrist and pull it until you give yersel a wee snap to wake you up to the fact that St. Andrew's Day is part of Scotland's heritage, whethr or not you espouse religion or not. People have the right to celebrate it!

51

Steve Evans,

Malta 30/11/2006 10:05:52

With Independance looming, will Scottish expats be returning back to their roots in droves ??

52

Stewie G,

30/11/2006 10:06:35

This is another attempt by the usual suspects to try and create a new Scottish identity based on a false notion that Scotland=Ireland. As a proud protestant nation we have never celebrated Saints days which are more of a RC tradition. I have no doubt McConnell and Statman O'Brien would make St Patricks Day a holiday here if they thought they could get away with it!

For the information of all you Jacobites- for the past 100 years the biggest and best organised celebration in Scotland is the annual Orange Parades traditionally held on the week preceding the 12th July- so Billy #3 has a valid point-certainly more valid than St Andrews Day.

53

alldon,

Aberdeenshire 30/11/2006 10:11:01

But Google isn't marking St Andrew's Day, so still some way to go there.

54

Pete McClelland,

30/11/2006 10:11:50

Stop yer blethering for a wee while and lets have a nice day!
Slainte!

55

Mr Thai Land,

Bangkok 30/11/2006 10:11:52

*39. Main in the middle.

Give over, son. Your having a laugh. Here are some great Scottish contributions to the world.

Whisky:

Be sure to spell it without an “e” or it is not Scottish!

The Fax Machine:

The concept of the fax machine was invented by a Scotsman in the 1840s.

Television:

John Logie Baird, the inventor of TV, was born and raised in Scotland.

United States Navy:

Yes, it was a Scotsman who founded the US Navy.

Penicillin:

Penicillin was discovered by Alexander Fleming and first mixed in a pharmacy in Edinburgh.

Refrigeration:

A Scotsman invented the refrigeration process in Australia in 1851.

The Telephone:

Alexander Graham Bell, the inventor of the telephone, was born in Scotland and lived their until he was 18 when his family emigrated to Canada.

Golf:

Scotland is home to the Royal and Ancient Golf Society and also the oldest golf course and oldest golf club in the world.

The world’s first cloned mammal:

Dolly the sheep was cloned in Edinburgh in 1997.

Pneumatic Tyres:

It was a Scotsman, John Boyd Dunlop that invented the type of tyres that we still use on cars and other vehicles today.

Economics:

Adam Smith, author of the book "The Wealth of Nations" was a Scot. This book is the first study and analysis of how commerce and free trade create the wealth of a country.

Ultrasound Scanner:

The next time you get an ultrasound picture of your baby at the hospital, you can thank Ian Donald, a Scot, who invented the technology.

Anaesthetics:

James Simpson pioneered the use of chloroform in anaesthetics.

RADAR:

It was a Scot who developed the technology that became RADAR.

Bank ATMs:

John Shepherd-Barron, a Scot born in 1925, invented the ATM.

Peter Pan:

J M Barrie, the author of Peter Pan, was a Scot.

Modern Brazilian

56

Arthur,

30/11/2006 10:13:13

I dunno what has happened since my school days
But during the 50's, on Nov 11th and Nov 30th schoolkids were actively encouraged to wear the uniform of what ever youth organisation they were in.
National Pride then devolution or not.
Now here in York, where I am serving my exile, I have just learned about this proposal for a national holiday
does Joke McConnells authority so far reaching that Scots working abroad will be able to take this holiday.
I had an idea ther is a former Indian Take away shop
up the road from me I thought of opening it as a Scottish takeaway, any ideas for what I might sell?

57

HIS,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 10:13:54

#53
Paranoia is never attractive.

58

Mr Thai Land,

Bangkok 30/11/2006 10:18:05

Reiver, you seem to think I am Scottish? On wat basis?

I just like to look at this discussion board as it has a uniqueness to it. It must be one of the few examples of people from the same nation attacking each other over things that, in many other parts of the world, would normallty unite people.

The French are proud of who they are.

The Germans are proud of who they are.

The Aussies are proud of who they are.

The Yanks are proud of who they are.

The Thais are proud of who they are.

Yet look at you lot....

59

wayne bijlyeerheid,

30/11/2006 10:20:11

Arthur 57
What about Finlay Curry

60

Sean G,

30/11/2006 10:25:50

#39 Pride about living in Scotland-not a lot- a nation with a proud history but sadly its best days are long gone -talking of former glories is like watching some grainy black and white movie.

Modern Scotland is nation of religious bigots-rather ironic considering so many are atheists-full of neds and violent drunks with a huge chip on their shoulders living in a relatively backward little country on the edge of civilisation!

Seriously-ever think why our ancestors arrived in Scotland-that cold damp inhospitable land at the most extreme point of the Eurasian land mass?-St Tropez it aint! Were they maybe trying to escape from the rest of mankind or just being anti-social?

That's why most of the people on this thread are overseas!

61

Sean G,

30/11/2006 10:28:39

Meant to add even the Romans didn't want us-they even went to the trouble of building a wall or two to separate us from their Empire!

62

Wullie Coyle,

Wullie Sarf London. 30/11/2006 10:30:12

All this chittering and nattering Over much pontification from so many blustering buffoons and self opinionated assholes
TRUE Scots know it " WE ARRA PEEPLE"
and we dinnae gie a shite for ony ithers.
God punished us enough when he gave us the English as neighbours but if we can put up with them we will survive.
Wullie Coyle frae Aberfoyle

63

Jim. Texas, U.S.A.,

30/11/2006 10:31:38

Stewie G #53 Everybody (well almost everybody) knows that saints days were celebrated in Scotland long before and ever since the reformation. Happy St. Andrew's Day Stewie G.

64

Wee Blether,

Shellharbour NSW Australia 30/11/2006 10:32:29

Just looked at my Aussie Easy-2-C calander,and there it is Nov.30 St Andrews Day,and all Scots and descendants (4,000,000 ) got a thank you for helping make Australia a great country, as well as writing the national anthem "Advance Australia Fair".

65

wayne bijlyeerheid,

30/11/2006 10:37:39

62
When did your ancestors arrive in Scotland then?
I bet it wasn't before 1840.
And I doubt if you've ever identified with our country.

66

Il Penseroso,

inverurie 30/11/2006 10:40:36

Slowly but inexorably we are on our way to regaining our confidence as a Nation after 300 years of brain washing. From the posts there are still some dinosaurs hingin' aboot, still draped in a union hangover. Never fear like the dinosaurs of old they are on the way out. To all Scots wherever you are have a great day. We all know what the next step will be!! Slainte

67

Wullie Coyle,

Wullie Coyle London. 30/11/2006 10:42:39

What are you all getting steamed up about ? You know it,I know it, We all bloody well know it" WE ARRA PEEPLE"
They blether on about MULTI CULTURE
but as a single culture nation the Scots have given more to the world than anyone. For our inventivness and sheer genius YE CANNY WHACKUS.
Heres tae us whas like us damn few an d their aw deid .

68

Nik,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 10:54:06

53.

Can you take your bigoted, primitive rubbish elsewhere please?

69

Sad to the Bone,

30/11/2006 10:55:24

Wis St Andrew no Greek or summit? Can we no hae a holiday that represents oor fair land and it's glorious people-
Burns night- celebratin drinkin and shaggin,
or
We beat the English in '67 night- celebratin footie and drunkeness-
or
William Wallace night- celebratin inaccurate history and triumphalism.
We'd do all of them better than celbratin a Christian Saint, when was the last time you sat in a church?
And does everyone get the day off or just the Christians?

70

Michael,

30/11/2006 10:55:36

Stewie G

Shame on you - a day to celebrate bigotry more of a treat than a day to celebrate the place we live and the the people who live here?

Happy St Andrew's Day to the rest of us.

71

Media 1,

Cape Town 30/11/2006 10:57:47

There should be a GREAT BRITAIN day! That would be better than the St Andrew's and the St George's days..There is relatively little to any celebration for these days. I remember living in Scotland and noticing that more people celebrated Burns day......

Scrap it from the calendar its ridiculous

72

Angus Og,

Scottish Borders 30/11/2006 10:59:58

As it's a national holiday, it should be automatically a holiday, and a bank holiday, not a local holiday, or a holiday that you can take out of the meagre allowance offered by your employer - but a national holiday.

We Scots already have fewer statutory holidays than the English and the Welsh, so one more day will go some way to redressing the balance.

73

Nik,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 11:02:50

72.

Stirring?

74

Alistair Stewart,

DUNDEE 30/11/2006 11:06:52

AS USUAL A HALF-WAY HOUSE from London-Labour-Led-Jack

This MUST be made a a FULL holiday where all banks and government buildings are closed.

It's like Devolution - a half-measure.

Let's vote the SNP in in May and get this and a whol elot more for Scotland.

75

AJ,

Fife 30/11/2006 11:11:13

Happy St Andrews Day everyone! Even to Wee Jack!!

76

moira,

Bangkok 30/11/2006 11:14:29

I never celebrated Burns' night or St Andrew's night in Inverurie.
In England a pupil wished me a "happy feast day" and here in Bangkok I have just attended a magnificent St. Andrew's Ball, complete with pipe bands,(not all Scotsmen) Highland dancing, Scottish Country dancing to the excellent Graham Geddes band from the Granite city (there were lessons to practice beforehand, thank goodness - well I couldn't remember how to do Hamilton House - can you?) haggis and oceans of whisky (well any excuse for some people).
At four in the morning they served soup and stovies, oatcakes and tablet.

A great night and all thanks to St Andrew!

77

Lord Pasternack,

Glasgow 30/11/2006 11:19:08

Because everyone knows St. Andrew loved a good ceilidh...

78

,

30/11/2006 11:24:20
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79

Neil,

9% Growth party 30/11/2006 11:24:32

I suspect we are going to see civil servants getting an extra days holiday to count up the money their index linked pensions provide & businesses which have to actually make money to pay taxes to pay civil servants won't.

80

Gerry,

Galway Ireland 30/11/2006 11:28:30

Best wishes to all Scots on this St Andrew's Day. I hope Scotland does what the Republic of Ireland has done over the last century - utilise the millions of people of Scots ancestry to raise the profile of Scotland abroad. The celebration of st Patrick's Day here is now so big that in Dublin it is called St Patrick's Festival which lasts from the 14th to 19th of March (st Patrick's Day is on the 17th). On the Day parades are held anywhere Irish people live - the most famous being in New York where the annual parade is over 200 years old and is the only annual event on which %th Ave. is closed. Parades are also held in dozens of other Us cities, in Canada, in Australia in Beijing, Tokyo, Rome, Moscow etc. One of the most important aspects of the Day is the annual meeting between Irish political leaders and the US President at the White House and the annual Speakers Breakfast on Capitol Hill. Government ministers travel abroad and fly the flag. It works - more inward investment, more visitors etc. As for (53) - the holiday in Ireland has been celebrated by many Christian religions for centuries (the National Cathedral of St Patrick is Anglican) but now it is almost exclusively secular (ie non-religious), and regarding July 12th, surely that is innapropriate as it celebrates the victory and domination of one religion over another.
Happy St Andrew's Day to You All
Lá Fhéile Aindrias Shona Daoibh!!

81

Ged,

Manchester 30/11/2006 11:29:11

No real comment ,just want to wish everybody in Scotland a happy St Andrews day

82

Edward,

30/11/2006 11:29:48

#72 I dont think so
We prefer to celebrate St Andrews, no one wants to celeberate Great Britain

83

Norman,

30/11/2006 11:31:32

If today is a celebration of all things Scottish, then this messageboard is a prime example. All sorts here, interesting how there seems to be a majority of those abroad who happily celebrate it, while more living here are decrying the thing,for religious, economic, or just pure curmudgeonly reasons.

Scots have a chance to celebrate their country, whether home or abroad and those who live in Scotland but wouldn't classify themselves as Scots should feel welcome to join in. I'd say ignore those wanting to make any sort of capital out of it, and concentrate on a day for Scotland. As the years go by it will become much bigger and whether it's a holiday or not just now makes no odds. Remember not so long ago people used to work on Christmas Day.

Enjoy a Belhaven pint, eat some shortbread, read Sunset Song, listen to the Proclaimers, have a Forfar bridie, watch Braveheart, (or even better - Gregory's Girl), wear tartan, play golf, put some broth in a thermos flask (another Scottish invention), go to a ceilidh, moan about the new Forth Bridge - do whatever you fancy today as long as it's Scottish!

Happy St Andrew's Day!

84

Jim. Texas, U.S.A.,

30/11/2006 11:32:14

Edward (#78) I totally agree with you!
Moira (#77) Good to hear you had such fun! I hope you do not bump into Mr Thai the boring Scot hater in Bangkok!

85

Edward,

30/11/2006 11:36:08

Happy St Andrew's Day to all my fellow Scots, to our celtic cousins in Wales and Ireland, and all those Scots and freinds of Scotland overseas.
I hope that next year, Scotland decides its future and that its future is once again an independant country

86

Ged,

Manchester 30/11/2006 11:36:33

Second comment or question? is anybody celebrating St Andrews day in England, I certainly will as it,s my Fathers birthday born in Glasgow in 1921.

87

Astro Turf,

30/11/2006 11:38:27

More flag waving bollocks from the scotsman.

I guess that s why i dont read it because im not a little scotlander that thinks the world revolves around our hills na dour glens and our call centres.

88

Edward,

30/11/2006 11:39:47

I find it disapointing that Google, who make great play by celebrating St Patricks Day on there site as well as other celebrations and 'happenings' dont make any effort what so ever to have at least a St Andrews flag draped over the Google logo?
Come on Google wake up!

89

Astro Turf,

30/11/2006 11:40:38

52. No.

90

,

30/11/2006 11:40:50
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91

Pete McClelland,

Kirkcudbright 30/11/2006 11:44:38

#86
Hear hear! And a great day to yersel!

92

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 30/11/2006 11:46:08

Moira in Bangkok no.77. Next time you are home in Inverurie post me and I will show you just what a super place our town has become. Is Pattya beach still a beautiful place?
Gerry no 80 Many thanks for your kind comments and interesting suggestions. What a great race we Gaels are.

93

Media 1,

Cape Town 30/11/2006 11:46:24

Just a thought! I mean none of the Scots celebrate it anyway so what is the point of having it?

94

Astro Turf,

30/11/2006 11:49:53

Move St. Andrews day to Burns night, we already have a great celebration which is recognised worldwide. Two is pushing it.

95

Edward,

30/11/2006 11:50:36

#94 Take it your working from the brail version of this site then? I only mention that, as you would have to be visually impaired not to notice that Scots do celebrate both in Scotland and overseas. Is it because you havent been invited to anything?

96

James M,

Scotland 30/11/2006 11:59:53

Today I am going to watch Brigadoon and thingumijig on video (not dvd) listen to old Fran and Anna and Andy Stewart LP's.
I will also be eating much shortbread and drinking whiskey.
This is part of Scotland's culture that most of you lot would rather forget so to hell wi' the lot o ye, I am proud and happy.
Also I see that many of you are ashamed of your Christian heritage in doubting that we should be celebrating a day named after a Christian Saint. YOU ARE ALL DAMMED AND GOING TO HELL.
Now where did I put that old Lord Rockingham's X1 78 Hoots Mon.

97

Astro Turf,

30/11/2006 12:01:09

Andy Stewart

98

HIS,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 12:01:12

Let those who want to celebrate St. Andrew's Day celebrate. Let those who don't gie us peace and contemplate why they don't want to celebrate our country (which is what it boils down to).

99

Astro Turf,

30/11/2006 12:01:17

Kenneth Mackellar

100

HIS,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 12:01:21

100

101

HIS,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 12:01:39

Bu**er

102

Billy,

Germany 30/11/2006 12:02:42

Oh yes, we are celebrating St Andrew's day over here to. The Germans love Scottish culture, in fact,
I have probably learned as much about my country over here, as when I was living in Glasgow. The Edinburgh Tattoo is shown on the tv every year ,
and you can now get Walker's Shortbread in the shops. Happy St Andrew's day to all real Scots,
the rest of you could always go to work.

103

Pete McClelland,

Kirkcudbright 30/11/2006 12:03:19

#94,
you are a clairvoyant? You can see what we in Scotland are doing at the moment? I'll certainly be celebrating with my family this evening just as my father has been celebrating with us for many many years

104

YabbaDabbaDoo,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 12:03:58

Happy St Andrews day to all Scots and the Scots diaspora wherever you may be.
For the Scots whingers that don't want to celebrate it, I look forward to the day you change your outlook... have fun in the meantime regardless.

105

Dane,

Wick, Caithness 30/11/2006 12:04:32

A voluntary bank holiday. While the Assembly have the balls to bully the public over non smoking (Pro, by the way.) they lack any over objecting to business. While it is a voluntary holiday there will be no holiday. For all those who debunk Scotland, having lived in many parts of the world, it is still one of the best places to live. Having experienced 12th of July, I would never want to have anything to do with it again.

106

James M,

Scotland 30/11/2006 12:06:38

Today I am going to watch Brigadoon and thingumijig on video (not dvd) listen to old Fran and Anna and Andy Stewart LP's.
I will also be eating much shortbread and drinking whiskey.
This is part of Scotland's culture that most of you lot would rather forget so to hell wi' the lot o ye, I am proud and happy.
Also I see that many of you are ashamed of your Christian heritage in doubting that we should be celebrating a day named after a Christian Saint. YOU ARE ALL DAMMED AND GOING TO HELL.
Now where did I put that old Lord Rockingham's X1 78 rpm record Hoots Mon.

107

killjoy,

30/11/2006 12:06:55

how long before it has to be called Scotland day and the saint andy is dropped for not being inclusive

108

Kev,

30/11/2006 12:07:13

99 Well said,

BUT until its a public/Bank holiday like the Irish do theres no point to it, just another day at the office.


And to Astro Turf (95) "Two is pushing it."

WHY?

Southern Ireland and the North both have 11 Bank Holidays, we have 8 .

109

James M,

Scotland 30/11/2006 12:14:41

Re # 108 Well said. I take it that you mean St. Andy Stewart and not the good St. Andrew.

110

GP,

30/11/2006 12:15:43

83# agreed.
So what if Andrew was not from Scotland where was he from? what is our connection to him?
I know for a fact that patrick was not from ireland that does not stop them celebrating their connection.
The saltire is a truly great flag and known throughout the world. Used in the union jack the confederate flag and many others.

For those who associate him with religion - it didn't exist the same in his days as it does today, there were NO roman catholics or protestants so he is available for both.

enjoy and celebrate our great past achievements by all means but let's try and create some new ones and regain our rightfull place in the top echelons of science, medicine and manufacturing research. Not I use the word research as not much happened at home in terms of industry.

The future should be about how we once again educate our sons and daughters to not only do very clever things but also be ambitious enough to create industries both home and abroad in world leading technologies and services.

111

Hell's Bells,

Edinburgh/Dublin 30/11/2006 12:16:26

Comment Number 53

Yeah, you're right- Scotland is making frantic efforts to copy Ireland e.g. smoking ban, St Andrews Day celebrationsand maybe even independence. And why? Because these steps are economically successful, progressive and a step away from a bigoted history that you seem to want to perpetuate.

I am glad to seeyou are in the minority ; ) and to everyone else- Enjoy
Lá Fhéile Aindrias Shona Daoibh

112

AJ,

Fife 30/11/2006 12:16:33

HIS#102

What's butter got to do with the price of cheese?:)

113

ECHELON_1,

30/11/2006 12:25:00

AJ: It could be something else, but I can't believe it's not butter.

114

coffeeholic,

scotland 30/11/2006 12:30:42

I am english and know live in scotland and you scots have a fantastic country are great people and I hope you get your indepentence. I could not live anywhere else. All scots have a great st andrews day

115

HIS,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 12:36:14

Its gay cheese, one Scotland, many cultures.

116

,

30/11/2006 12:47:32
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117

James M,

Scotland 30/11/2006 12:48:19

Re 111 I can't believe that you don't know who St Andrew was, what school did you go to?
St Andrew was a Jew with a Greek name, brother of simon peter and was the first to recognise Jesus as the messiah. He was reputedly executed on an X shaped cross
He was adopted as patron saint of Scotland after the battle of Athelstaneford in 832 ad when the clouds had formed an x shape in the sky thus boosting the moral and giving victory over the English to a combined army of Picts and Scots.
A few relics of him (fingers, an arm bone a tooth, a kneecap) were brought to Scotland by St Rule previous to this and were kept in what was to be named St Andrews up until the reformation.

118

ILF,

Blackshawhead 30/11/2006 12:49:12

Oh god - how tedious. Surely Scotland doesn't need to proclaim itself in this shrill way. It reminds me of the pip-squeak in the school play ground desperate for attention and approval.

119

Dancer,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 12:52:11

Thank you #115. Hope you have a coffee with a wee Dram today. England looks like supporting our bid for independance.
O.L.R

120

Sad to the Bone,

30/11/2006 12:54:38

#116 very very funny,

the most famous scottish culture-----------penicilin, nowt like a good pun!!

121

Robert,

Kirriemuir 30/11/2006 12:55:29

Amazing, all the world seems to be celebrating St Andrew's day today, and its just after mid-day here in the great glens of Angus and I have not noticed any difference. I must have a peek outside to see what's happening; ghee, its pouring of rain and the winds at gale-force and, thank goodness, the sheep are still in the field! I'll slip ben the room and imbibe a wee dram of the best home-brew while it is not yet imbued by Gordon Brown's fiscal spirit!

122

nationalist,

West Calder 30/11/2006 12:56:48

Why is Joke McConnell getting invoved with St Andrew's Day.
This day should be celebrated by REAL Scots and not by the leader of the Scottish branch of the Labour Party which has held Scotland back for decades.

123

Duncan,

on tour 30/11/2006 12:57:48

Anything that promotes Scotland on the world stage is good. It will see our nation emerge from hundreds of years of oppression. Scots the world over are rightly jubilant and we should join them in that. This is a nation to be proud of, born and raised in adversity, it has forged us into the proud and generous people that we are, renowned for our hospitality, humour, and endeavour. IT'S TIME.

124

HIS,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 12:58:47

AJ
That would depend on where you consume it. Can we drop this, I'm feeling a bit queasy.

125

GP,

30/11/2006 13:00:59

118# I knew that I just wondered about fact not myths.
I live beside the saltire trail so knew all about the flags history and it is just as much myth.

So was he greek?
Did he truly exist, or is he a name to explain the story?
Can we get DNA testing done on the remains?
Many places claim to have parts of him.
Did he have extra fingers, legs, kneecaps?

And Athel was not english but an Angle as much as the east of scotland are descended from.
More Danish than english really.

126

AJ,

Fife 30/11/2006 13:02:31

HIS

Yup, it's gone too far!:)

127

ECHELON_1,

30/11/2006 13:04:16

118. Thanks for the history lesson. I thought some might be interested to read the following I just pulled off a website. Educational for me as I didn't many of these 'facts'.


The story of St. Andrew is a complex one, with different versions and interpretations. It is now impossible to know what is the "true" story.
St Andrew was one of Jesus' twelve disciples and he lived and worked as a fisherman in Galilee. He was the brother of Peter, another of Christ's disciples.
After Christ's crucifixion, one version of the legend is that Andrew went to Greece to preach Christianity, where he was crucified for his beliefs at a place called Patras, on a cross in the form of an X. However, the X-shaped cross played little part in early legends of St. Andrew and indeed in early versions of the tale, Andrew was nailed to an olive tree, not a cross.
Another version of the story of St. Andrew has it that he preached in the area around the Black Sea.
It was very important in the early days of Christianity that the bones of saints, and other articles that had been closely associated with them, should be preserved. This helped people to understand that Saints were real people, no matter how extraordinary their lives had been. These objects were known as relics and often the relics of the saints would be split up and parts given to different churches.
One legend says that a man who later became St. Regulus (or Rule) carried the bones of St. Andrew to Scotland. His ship was wrecked on the Fife coast, and the spot at which the ship landed became the site of the town of St. Andrews. A cathedral was built there which was started in 1160 and took 158 years to build (the ruins can still be seen today) and the town became an important site of Christian pilgrimage.
Another legend has it that two monks from the North of England went to Rome and brought back the relics of St. Andrew. One of the monks passed the relics on to the rei

128

Nik,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 13:04:43

117.

Cottage Cheese?

129

ECHELON_1,

30/11/2006 13:05:11

So Angus had banners made for his soldiers to carry to battle with the white cross on them.
One of the first times that Andrew is recognized officially as the patron saint of Scotland was at the signing of the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320. This was a declaration signed by many of the Scottish noblemen, as well as Robert the Bruce, asserting Scotland's independence from England.
St Andrew's relics disappeared during the Reformation of the Scottish churches, when the Protestant Church came into being and broke away from the Roman Catholic church. Now there are few relics of Andrew in Scotland. A fragment is in St. Mary's Cathedral in Edinburgh.
Other countries have St. Andrew as their patron saint - Romania, Greece and Russia. Scotland is one of the few countries to have one of Christ's disciples as their patron saint.
St Andrew's Day is celebrated on the 30th November.
It tends to be more popular with Scots who live abroad and there are many St. Andrew's Societies in places where Scots emigrated to. The St. Andrew's Society in Boston, in the USA, was set up in 1657.
St. Andrew's Day used to be a very popular feast day in Scotland as well. It was a common custom for farm workers and labourers to go "St. Andra'ing". They would catch rabbits and hares and later on in the day would feast and drink. There have been debates on and off for some time now about making St. Andrew's Day a public holiday in Scotland.
Many people wonder what they should eat on St. Andrew's day. Because Andrew was a fisherman, it seems appropriate to eat fish. Otherwise you could eat any traditional Scottish food. It used to be that a singed sheep's head was traditional!

130

Calum Crubag,

Alba, gu brath. 30/11/2006 13:10:00

This should be a holiday and yeah, we have a lot to be proud of going back to the old Gaels, Celts and others that built the likes of Calanais and the brochs to Logie Baird and Graeme Obree.

A holiday at this time of year would be good for people, for our culture and for the ecocomy as people would use it for leisure and shopping.

Mar sin dheth, an ath bhliadha, tha mi'n dochas gum bi la saor againn air La Naomh Anndra. Agus saorsa dhuinn cuideachd!

131

moira,

Bangkok 30/11/2006 13:17:22

Stop girnin abudy! I am actually learning lots from your comments! Keep them coming!

132

Sedov,

Scotland 30/11/2006 13:25:58

More proof that the Scots are the greatest internationalists in the world and that nationalism of the kind preached by Salmond and the SNP goes agaist our traditions and our culture.

133

John (A vote for the SNP is a vote for Scotland),

Blantyre 30/11/2006 13:32:07

Why are we so afraid to be proud of being Scottish.

I have had the pleasure of spending Canada Day in Ottawa and was overwhelmed by there sense of national pride.

It is my hope than an Independent Scotland will match that sense of passion that our Canadian cousins exhibit so proudly.

Being British is an anomaly, and increasingly we are seeing a resurgence in pride from our English friends in St George's day. I think England is a great country, any country that produced the likes of Magna Carta and Shakespeare can't be all that bad.

I hope to celebrate with my English friends there own independence day. I do no base my Nationalism on the dislike of another country. I base my Nationalism on the firm belief that the 18C. project of Britain is no longer tenable in the 21st.

134

John (A vote for the SNP is a vote for Scotland),

Blantyre 30/11/2006 13:32:38

Why are we so afraid to be proud of being Scottish.

I have had the pleasure of spending Canada Day in Ottawa and was overwhelmed by there sense of national pride.

It is my hope than an Independent Scotland will match that sense of passion that our Canadian cousins exhibit so proudly.

Being British is an anomaly, and increasingly we are seeing a resurgence in pride from our English friends in St George's day. I think England is a great country, any country that produced the likes of Magna Carta and Shakespeare can't be all that bad.

I hope to celebrate with my English friends there own independence day. I do no base my Nationalism on the dislike of another country. I base my Nationalism on the firm belief that the 18C. project of Britain is no longer tenable in the 21st.

135

,

30/11/2006 13:41:55
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136

Media 1,

Cape Town 30/11/2006 13:42:02

#135 : Take a look at alot of our school kids, they were make -up,they smoke, they curse,they look untidy,they never polish their shoes,their hair is untidy, their buttons undone, they have no respect for elderly people and will not stand up to let a aged person sit,they complain,drink and have no self respect!

Pride to them is a word they hear older people talking about, but it means nothing...National pride, well most of them dont where Scotland is on a map!

Not sure the same can be said of so many of Canada's young folk. They seem to have pride in themselves, thus leading to pride in their environment and then their country.

137

,

30/11/2006 13:42:59
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138

ECHELON_1,

30/11/2006 13:46:54

Frank. X FACTOR

139

The west awake,

Argyll 30/11/2006 13:49:34

133 - You are right, we have been great internationalists, but our visions and aspirations have been funelled through England/UK for too long. The UK has controlled how we interact with the world and it is very exciting to think we may be able to break out of that straightjacket in May. We will become truly internationalist again, after three centuries, as a nation equal to others.
What a wonderful prospect!

140

,

30/11/2006 14:35:33
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141

Donald Inbhir Nis,

Inverness 30/11/2006 14:35:46

# 20 works for a Labour MSP so we can expect the same level of comment as Douglas Alexander who seems so thick he can't understand what Culloden was all about.

Keep it up Tog, I love the outputs of Reid and Alexander about the SNP. Permadrunk Foulkes was in good form the other day.

For foulkes sake leave the sinking Labour ship, only the rats are left!

142

,

30/11/2006 14:38:21
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143

Edward,

30/11/2006 14:39:37

#140 Well put Jennifer

144

Mentorscotus,

SCOTLAND 30/11/2006 14:50:55

Happy St Andrew's Day all.

145

Pipie Tosh,

Toronto Canada 30/11/2006 15:00:58

I grew up in Montreal,Canada and my dad came from Dunblane, Perthshire. The St. Andrew's Society of Montreal had a very prominent place in that city and also in my life. In the 1950's they sponsored the St. Anndrew's Society pipes and drums later to become the Black Watch Cadet pipes and drums. (instruction was provided by the members of The Black Watch Royal Highland Regiment of Canada pipers and drummers) The society had an annual ball. This was THE social event of t he year in that city with debutantes and all. All of Montreal's elite attended the ball for their daughters coming out night.

I personally joined the cadets in 1959 after already accomplished playing the pipes for two years. I was 10 years old ! I went on to become the Pipe Major of the Cadets and later P/M of the 3rd Battalion Black Watch of Canada. Since those days I have played pipes in many parts of the globe including the UK, Hong Kong, Indonesia, USA, Japan and of course Canada....................Thank you St. Andrew........especially the Montreal Scciety !!!

This day should be a holliday and we should be able to outdo St. Patrick around the globe..........lord knows I've played in many of his parades !!

146

SC,

dundee 30/11/2006 15:08:49

True nonsense. Google.co.UK didn't even celebrate it on their homepage (unlike St Patrick's and St George's).

Most foreigners I meet do not know Scotland exists. It's just part of England where whisky comes from!

It is time for us to leave to leave the UK... and join the world!

147

YabbaDabbaDoo,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 15:19:38

Pipie Tosh - all the best to you!

148

Laxdad,

U.S. 30/11/2006 15:34:52

St. Andrew wrote, “Nothing like a bit of flag waving to bring out the patriotism of all those who abandoned Scotland.”

The quarter-million-plus Scots and Scots-Irish who settled in what became the United States between approximately 1690 and 1775 not so much “abandoned” Scotland as were driven from it. First, the people of Southwestern Scotland, especially the borders, were displaced to the Ulster Plantation in the early seventeenth century, from whence they moved on to the backcountry of Pennsylvania, Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia. Then, especially after Culloden, many highlanders resettled to the Cape Fear River and Piedmont regions of the Carolinas and Georgia. After the Revolution, they spread across the continent, taking with them their culture and mores.

Three very good books address this subject. George MacDonald Fraser’s “The Steel Bonnets” tells the story of the border reivers. David Hackett Fischer’s “Albion's Seed” examines all four major pre-Revolution migrations from the British Isles to what became the United States and follows their consequences down to the present day. “Albion’s Seed” is among the most enlightening books of history I have ever read. “Born Fighting,” by James Webb, focuses on the Scots-Irish migration and its role in the evolution of the Populist strain of American democracy. “Born Fighting” also seems to be something of a political manifesto by the author, the new U.S. Senator from Virginia whose recent victory gave the Democratic Party its one-vote majority in, and control of, the U.S. Senate.

The misguided policies that forced the Scotts-Irish and Scottish migrations deprived Britain of immense talent and drive, albeit among a class of people whom those in power disdained. “Good riddance” was their attitude, but at least twenty of the forty-three men who have held the U.S. Presidency descended from these migrations. Fischer writes, “Of those four cultural groups [New England Puritan, Tidewater Cavalie

149

Edward,

30/11/2006 15:53:10

#148 I agree its a disgrace that Google have chosen to ignore that its St Andrews day, but there more than hapy to celbrate St Patricks, St Georges and Haloween on there site
I have sent an e-mail to there office inLondo, unsurpringly I have not received a reply
I think all Scots from around the World should bombard Google for ignoring St Andrews, its not an event or celebration thats confined to Scotland, but it is global after all, so what are they thinking?

150

Doug in Glasgow,

Doug in Glasgow 30/11/2006 15:56:27

Hi everyone I run a 40 man company in Ayrshire and we decided this year for the first time to give everyone the day off to celebrate St. Andrews Day. We will do this next year and the year after, so long as our company is around and our nation exists.

151

GP,

30/11/2006 16:13:55

152#
I take it the women didnae get the day aff?

152

GP,

30/11/2006 16:14:44

152# just joking.
PC correctness and all that.

153

John F.,

São Paulo 30/11/2006 16:17:23

To mark this great day I wore a MacMillan tartan tie to a business lunch. Since the green and yellow colours are similar those of Brazil it was a great success. I´m always proud and pleased to see the positive image Scotland has among Brazilians. A couple of days ago after I gave a presentation some people came and told me how much they had loved trips they had made to Scotland. "Eu adoro a Escócia - o país mais bonito do mundo" was one ecstatic which I could only agree with - Scotland is the most beautiful country in the world!

154

Pipie Tosh,

Toronto Canada 30/11/2006 16:30:41

# 148

I think that we place too much faith in "GOOGLE"

I'd like to know who died and made them the world's utmost authority.........what happened to good auld fashioned "reference books" . I know for a fact that St. Andew existed in all of the world's encyclopedia's

PS. The St. Andrew's Society of Montreal was formed in 1835.........32 years before Confeferation, so it has been celebrating Nov. 30 longer than July 1st (Canada Day).........and making sure that the whole city knows about it.

With the political situation in Quebec; it surley separated the Scots from English in that city !!!!!

155

The Claymore.,

NS, Canada. 30/11/2006 16:31:07

#15 mcsponger: Thank your lucky stars we don't all live there. If all the Scots were to come back & live there the place would sink. It would be standing room only.

156

Celtic Lass,

England 30/11/2006 16:42:33

Hi everbody. A Very Happy St. Andrews Day from a woman born and raised in England but thats were the connection ends. My parents were Celts and I am very proud to be associated with the Scottish and Irish traditions. Currently, I am seeking to 'return' to Scotland to live and work, and enjoy a quality of life I have not known in England for many years. On my many visits to all over Scotland, the hospitality I have been shown is unsurpassed! I am thoroughly enjoying all your comments even the moaning minnies! I particularly enjoyed the cheese exchange! Well, have a fantastic evening howsoever celebrated!

Mar sin leibh agus tapadh liebh - Catriona

157

Sedov,

Scotland 30/11/2006 16:49:36

# 151 I admire your optimism and spirit, which,in my opinion, would be far better channelled into the real struggle for a better future which lies , not by making new boundaries under petty untopian nationalism, (thus further dividing an already divided society) but by embracing the true meaning of internationalism which is breaking down the boundaries of all oppressed countries and unting all working people against the tyranny of the nation State which is become more barborous each day.

158

The west awake,

Argyll 30/11/2006 16:58:09

Pipie Tosh - Your piping skills are obviously way above my own humble efforts, but from one piper to another go well. I am often touched by the affection our diaspora holds for us.
Slainte

159

William Gouinlock,

Atlanta, GA, USA 30/11/2006 17:11:27

I take today as a secular day- not a kristian- and do celibrate Scotland! I'm of Scottish descent from the Borders and Edinborough, though my ancestors have been in the New World since 1835. I've traveled twice to Scotland and will bring my young family the next time!

The Best for Scotland and All with Honor!

160

Dr, Christopher Pratt,

Prishtina, Kosovo and the USA 30/11/2006 17:16:30

Dear Friends,

Greetings on a glorious St Andrews Day, 2006!

It is with the greatest of pleasure that I send warm greetings at the time of celebration of St. Andrews Day to all my fellow clansmen and to our brothers and sisters of the heather around the world.

Clan Grant is not just a historical society, it is a living clan whose members consider themselves extended family and kin and who keep their heritage alive through participation in many gatherings and events around the country. We support and further the efforts of the Clan Grant Society USA in preserving our common Grant heritage.

We are united by our deeply felt connections to our shared heritage, our ancestors, and our desire to preserve the traditions of that heritage our participation in Clan Grant Society USA literary, charitable, historical, educational, cultural, social, and recreational activities.

How will you and yours celebrate this St. Andrews Day?

Each of us can help share the celebration of contemporary and historic Scotland. Go beyond Braveheart, Burns and golf to tell the stories of your family, the part of Scotland where your people lived and worked, how they came to where you are now and repeat these stories often. Visit our Society website: http://www.clangrant-us.org/clangrant.htm . Arrange a gathering of family, friends, neighbors and take pictures.

Send your photos and stories of your St. Andrews celebration to our Craigellachie Editor, Holly Grant-Wilson-Floyd, craigellachie@comcast.net .

"Cuimhnich air na daoine on tàinig thu."* Remember those from whom you are descended.

Jimmie and I look forward to hearing from you and seeing you again when we return to the States from our work here in Kosovo. We fly home to Asheville, NC on December 6th.

STAND FAST in your work, with your family and your home.

"Moran taing," Many

161

Toronto Tam,

Canada 30/11/2006 17:19:12

#53 Stewheid G.

You claim that ;
"This is another attempt by the usual suspects to try and create a new Scottish identity based on a false notion that Scotland=Ireland."
By virtue of your own narrow minded bigoted points of view you in fact support the very position that you are against. I would say that you most definitley have Irish blood in you!!!!!!!!
It is people like you that remind me why I choose to live here and to raise my sons in a country devoid of the outdated tribalistic hatreds that you would promote.
Growing up in Scotland I always felt that I had to be "More Scottish" or to prove my Scottishness because I had Irish grandparents on one side of my family, something that I always kept quiet about. I am now proud to be a citizen of one of the best countries in the world AND I am also proud of my Irish ancestry while remaining a TRUE Scotsman forever. Stewheid, dae yersel a favour and read a Scots history book and ye'll discover how interwoven the history and cultures of Scotland and Ireland are and puleeze, try and drag yersel intae the 21st century and join the rest us celebrating this day.
Happy St. Andrew's day to one and all.

162

Edward,

30/11/2006 17:23:16

#159, What on earth are you on about, I was talking about it being disapointing that Google have chosen to ignore St Andrews Day completely. Nothing was mentioned about petty nationalism, Im proud to be a Scot, shame that your not

163

Flora,

NY, 30/11/2006 17:45:20

Congratulations Scotland on your holiday! Pardon my ignorance, but who was St. Andrew and why did he become a saint?

164

silemairin,

England 30/11/2006 18:03:31

Happy St Andrews Day to you all.

from a member of the Campaign for An ENGLISH parliament.

A glass will be raised to you all.

165

tyson,

Annapolis, Maryland 30/11/2006 18:31:26

Many thanks laxdad (150)! You addressed my feelings as a member of the diaspora completely and well. I have often heard it said that Scotland's greatest export has been Scots. It is amazing that after over two centuries in America, many members of my family still identify as Scots. I have not looked into returning to live, but have the feeling doing so would be difficult due to government regulation of immigration. Also, I am happy and proud to be an American. Have a festive St. Andrews Day! (even you, posters 15 and 18).

166

Ginevra,

Whangarei, New Zealand 30/11/2006 18:34:19

For entertainment at the end of year dinner last night of our Alliance Française we had a couple of Scottish fiddlers to mark the occasion of St Andrew's Day. They were very well received. Only wine was drunk, no whisky.
Now it is 7.30am on Friday here.

167

Phillip,

30/11/2006 18:34:36

As for those who wish to know why those of us of Scottish descent living abroad don't move back to Scotland, I'll give you a short answer.

It's too hard to get in if you left more than a generation ago. My family left Scotland and came to America while we were still a colony of England. Personally, I'd give anything to move back and leave this sorry land of Bush-ites. But your immigration policies make it far too difficult if a person isn't independently wealthy.

168

Wayne H,

Canada 30/11/2006 18:37:02

The comments posted above hilight something that I have been feeling since I visited Scotland. I am of mostly Scots descent but Canadian for several generations. My ancestors, I am certain, all had their own reasons for leaving. They may have "abandoned" Scotland. I can't say.
I am proud of my heritage, but in my mind and heart there are 2 Scotlands. First is the beautiful country with mountains, streams and lovely cities and towns and with proud women and men who have been great and have made the world a better place, both in Scotland and around the globe. Second there is the country with the smell of urine in the alleys, trash on the streets and Irn Bru tins and crisp packets lying in the streams and small minded people who would rather whinge about what a crappy place Scotland is and not get off their collective arses to try to make it better.
I will recognize St. Andrews day by reflecting on the good and hoping that the worst will get better. I fear that it will be a long time before the population of Scotland catches up to people who live with the atitude that it is not okay to throw your trash on the street and who believe that you should be proud of where you live, wherever it might be, and you should help build it up and not tear it apart.
Happy St. Andrew's Day to all.

169

rab, glasgow,

30/11/2006 18:37:12

166. silemairin,/ Thank you very much. We wish you a very successfull campaign my good man.
Slang.
It is time.

170

rab, glasgow,

30/11/2006 18:39:12

169. Phillip /Go for political asylum, it works for every one else.

171

Jim. Texas, U.S.A.,

30/11/2006 18:39:58

I wonder why my comment was regarded as unsuitable!?!?????????????

172

lorraine,

fife 30/11/2006 18:48:25

why do we not celebrate that great man andrew carnegie? how many foreigners know he was born in dunfermline, in scotland. how many americans know who the carnegie hall is named after and where that man came from. i didn`t know it was his birthday on 25th november til i read it in the scotsman article. thanks for an interesting and informative report.

173

Flora,

New York, USA 30/11/2006 18:55:52

Good post #163, I also believe it is for this reason that many progressive thinkers in Britain tend to be atheists. Britain and Ireland have been torn apart by religious hatred for centuries and it is obvious this dynamic continues today. I am sure it is not what Christ had in mind and if it is I guess I too would not want to participate in this sort of faith. Perhaps this turmoil is why statistics show England has the highest rate of atheists in the world.
But, what about the Episcopalians, they also believe in saints, do they not? They too are protestant. So why is he singleing out the Irish RC? The modern day bible fundamentalists in my country refer to themselves as saints as well. How is one man’s doctrine (written by man) any more accurate than another’s.

Why not celebrate St. Andrew...if anything, it is more for the sake of tradition than for the sake of religion.

174

Top Twiddler,

temporary Toronto 30/11/2006 18:58:35

Penrose Fish and Chips, Toronto. Nearing Anstruther quality.

175

Edward,

30/11/2006 18:59:36

Yes Ive noticed some comments have been removed , for no apparent reason, somebody at the Scotman is being overly sensitive

176

Edward,

30/11/2006 19:01:59

#174 Lets be honest Lorraine, there are that many Scots who are famous and who contributed to the world at large, so perhaps St Andrews Day is a celebration of them all collectivly

177

Top Twiddler,

temporary Toronto 30/11/2006 19:02:19

The English regime has used diplomacy as a ploy to gain time and advantage. It has uniformly defied resolutions demanding full independence. Over the years, Scotsmen have been threatened by English officials, electronically bugged, and systematically deceived. Peaceful efforts to gain independence have failed again and again -- because we are not dealing with peaceful men.

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the English regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal philosophies ever devised. This regime has already used brainwashing against it's Welsh neighbors and against Irish people.

178

HIS,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 19:05:37

Media 1 #137
Leave our children alone. Apart from a tiny minority they are just fine, not the way you paint them.

179

HIS,

Edinburgh 30/11/2006 19:07:31

Top Twiddler
Calm down The sad reality is that our only real enemy is ourselves.

180

Top Twiddler,

temporary Toronto 30/11/2006 19:12:28

Sorry about the last comment... I think I had some bad Canadian haggis for lunch.

181

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 30/11/2006 19:25:01

I was going to make a comment about how many catholic crosses Rangers fans wave at football matches (3) but I won't as I'd better not

182

C. Taylor,

California, US 30/11/2006 19:36:03

Let me enjoy wearing my tartan in peace today - since I'm none too proud of being American these days I'd at least like to be proud of my Scots heritage!!

183

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 30/11/2006 19:42:13

So instead I will mention that the Scotsman thinks St Andrew's Day should have a theme.

Can't say I agree as it a personal thing, as can be seen by the postings. The diversity has to be applauded. No doubt it will evolve but at the moment the overriding sentiment seems to be of good will and recognition to Scots from Scots and non-Scots. So that's not a bad start especially as the good will and recognition is reciprocated to all who wish us well.

Maybe that could be the theme. With the best will in the world, I look forward to seeing Jack McConnell and his herd beavering away at their desks next year when I am on holiday.

Now, here's a song I heard to sing at St Andrew's night

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba you are my home
You're the land I swear my allegiance to
And I will never be alone
Like a true love the world has never known
I love you, you're my homeland, you're my home

And though I may travel far away
You are my homeland, you're my home

Those are the only bits I can remember.

184

Ian mhor,

Germany 30/11/2006 19:56:19

It seems to have escaped notice, but Saint Andrew is also the patron saint of Russia.

185

Ian mhor,

Germany 30/11/2006 19:58:01

It seems to have escaped notice, but Saint Andrew is also the patron saint of Russia.

186

Toronto pete,

canada 30/11/2006 20:09:05

I would like to wish all people a happy st andrews day and especially to my brother in law from clydebank who has had st andrews day parties for many years,raising the flag on the flagpole that came from the old clydebank football club field.
Hope you have a great party Wullie.

187

Angus Mor,

God's Own Island 30/11/2006 20:23:25

We heard you the first time Ian mhor!

By the way, a saint, of any name is for the world to celebrate by anybody who believes in saints so enjoy, wherever you are!

188

Chigbo,

Lowell MA 30/11/2006 20:25:16

#19 and all Scots,
"By the way, we, who live/work abroad, and remit back to Scotland, are a significant part of what keeps Scotland (and England) in imports -#19"

I am surprised that Scots also live and make money in foreign lands while they are sacking Africans from their own place. What hypocrites!

189

rab, glasgow,

30/11/2006 20:26:36

185. Jock Tamson, /The next line goes like this.
"Alas as long as wee joke mCONnell is in power
away from home I.ll rome".

190

rab, glasgow,

30/11/2006 20:29:54

or roam,or madrid,or berlin, anywhere but ther,

191

Wayne H,

Canada 30/11/2006 20:35:15

Chigbo 191: ???

192

Virgil,

Vancouver, BC 30/11/2006 20:50:24

The time here now is 12.44pm and I have yet to hear anyone on CBC or local radio mention Saint Andrew or that this is Scotland's National Day. At noon I tuned in TV and did a remote Jiggle and still no mention of our Patron Saint. Surprise, since I read in the Scotsman that here in Vancouver we are launching a Scotland Fund. Called a few fellow Caledonians and again it was the first they had heard of it. I grant that I do not belong to any National Society where members may keep the cards close to their chest. Good Public Relations and Marketing is recommended to those here and in Scotland who wish to promote this day. I will visit the Legion this afternoon and wish all a Hppy St.Andrew's Day.

193

Virgil,

Vancouver, BC 30/11/2006 20:55:32

Fortunately it will sound like "Happy" St.Andrew's Day....and my extended wishes to all of you.

194

Menzies,

Canada 30/11/2006 21:12:19

The saltire is flying on my car today. To the wet blanket (the politest term I could come up with but not what I'm really thinking) who commented that we're all so proud of Scotland that none of us live there: you probably thought you were being a wit but when you don't know the circumstances which forced people from their homeland, you should leave those remarks alone. Canada may be home but Scotland is the homeland and we're proud to call it so. Very proud.

Happy St. Andrew's Day, everyone else.

195

ECHELON_1,

30/11/2006 21:18:06

191 Chigbo.

I think you'll find that most Scots working abroad aren't taking any jobs from locals. Many are skilled workers. I personally have worked in 2 countries where the employer had to prove to the govt. auth. that they had tried to seek someone of my skills in country and could not source them. In another 3 countries this didn't have to be demonstrated but I was brought in due to my skills. I know and have met many Scots from many industries that have been in similar positions. I personally do not have [too] much issue with non British people coming to the UK to work, however what i do not agree with is when these foreign workers are paid crap wages. If employers had to pay for example a Polish tradesman what the market rate for a British tradesman then perhaps we wouldn't have so much of a problem. You can't simply blame the companies however, because if one is doing it then the others cannot compete. The government needs to get on top of this issue, especially with the likes of Bulgaria being allowed into UK. The criminal element is another story...what have we done!?

196

Pipie Tosh,

canada 30/11/2006 21:22:15

#195 Virgil

Check with the Vancouver Police Pipe band......... if there is indeed anything special today ..........they, as the official band of the city are sure to be involved....if not I'd be surprized that they were not invited !!!

Have a Great Day

197

ECHELON_1,

30/11/2006 21:23:23

197 Menzies, Canada.

Well said. I came back to Scotland in 2002 after spending the previous 10 years overseas in various locations. Throughout that time people used to joke that I was like a tourist information rep for Scotland because I would talk highly of it. You don't have to live in Scotland to be a proud Scot.

198

Meta,

30/11/2006 21:24:25

In spite of all the misery-guts out there the feelgood factor wins imho.

If I was a betting woman I would bet that our FM is grinding his teeth at the moment wondering what he has let out of the bag.

Saor Alba

199

Meta,

30/11/2006 21:27:42

Do you know anyone who tunes in to McConnell FM?

200

CANUCK,

30/11/2006 21:33:56

TODAY THE PATRIACH OF CONSTANTINOPLE, THE SPIRTUAL HEAD OF ALL ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS,EASTERN,GREEK AND RUSSIANS TOGETHER WITH THE POPE OF ROME, HEAD OF ALL CATHOLICS WORLDWIDE CELEBRATED ST ANDREW FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER.
THIS IS A MOMENTOUS OCCASION IN HISTORY. TWO CHURCHES THAT HAVE BEEN APART FOR NEARLY A THOUSAND YEARS HAVE BEEN DRAWN TOGTHER BY ST. ANDREW.
IT WAS THE PATRIACH WHO INVITED THE POPE TO COME TO CONSTANTINOPLE AND CELEBRATE ST ANDREW AS THE STARTING POINT FOR FINALLY BRINGING THE TWO CHURCHES CLOSER TOGETHER SINCE THE GREAT SCHISM.
AND THE POPE,THE FIRST EVER,AGREED.

WE SCOTS WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN SAINT ANDREW AS OUR PATRON SAINT SHOULD BE THE PROUDEST OF PEOPLES AND GIVE HIM THE RESPECT AND REVERENCE IN WHICH THE REST OF THE WORLD HOLDS HIM. HIS MARTYDOM, HIS FAITH HIS WORD IS WHAT IS REPRESENTED IN THE SALTIRE CROSS, OUR NATIONAL FLAG.
TO TAKE TIME OUT TO CELEBRATE AND RELECT ON THE TEACHINGS OF ST ANDREW SHOULD BE A JOY FOR US. WE OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO SAY THAT WE ARE SCOTS BECAUSE WE PRACTICE AND FOLLOW THE WAY OF ST. ANDREW.

OTHERWISE DITCH THE SALTIRE FLAG COMPLETLY AND STAY WITH THE LION RAMPANT, THAT YELLOW AND RED FLAG WITH AN ANGRY CAT ON IT, MAYBE THAT DEFINES WHO WE ARE MUCH BETTER ??

201

rab, glasgow,

30/11/2006 21:44:57

203. CANUCK /The flag of the clans deserves to fly alongside the saltire as a representation of Scotland
and her people.Her people are Scotland after all.

202

Meta,

30/11/2006 21:51:32

203. You should pass that information on to the authorities and media of Scotland. I think they missed it or are playing it down - with the emphasis on down.

203

Meta,

30/11/2006 21:54:25

agree, 204. But I think it should be his people are Scotland after all.

204

Meta,

30/11/2006 21:55:43

and the flag of the clans should be at half mast for a respectful period

205

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 30/11/2006 22:03:28

May I return all the wonderful good wishes sent to Scotland today from all parts of the world on this our special St Andew's celebrations. There can be no prouder race on God's earth than Clan Scotland.
It's time! Slainte

206

Iain,,

Tasmania 30/11/2006 22:13:51

#52 I reckon its time...

207

rab, glasgow,

30/11/2006 22:21:45

206. Meta / mibee,s aye mibee,s naw.

208

Iain,,

Tasmania 30/11/2006 23:02:32

shouldn't it be St Columba's Day??

209

2dogs in D.C.,

30/11/2006 23:11:57

#18-St.Andrew-my ancesters were removed-the clearances you know. #23--Doug- independance day is really where it's at. Anyway, happy St.Andrews all...

210

Alex R,

Hartford CT 30/11/2006 23:59:01

# 18 &15 Remind me of a brilliant letter in the Sunday Post a few years ago, this woman was responding to criticism of Scotland from Scots living abroad. " Yous that have left, have no right to criticise Scotland, you should be made to come back and suffer along with the rest of us"
Alex

211

E. Smith,

McLennan County Texas 01/12/2006 00:18:54

I suppose I started "celebrating" St. Andrew's Day yesterday when a Toyota SUV with a "Sco" decal and a Saltine on the bumper sticker pulled in front of my car in a residential neighborhood about 25 miles from President G. W. Bush's ranch. (Actually, it's a former pig farm, but I suppose he can call it a ranch.) I still don't know why the car was transported across the Atlantic. Perhaps the current Director of the Armstrong-Browning Library (dedicated to the poetry of Elizabeth and Robert Browning) at Baylor University was driving since the last two directors have been Scots.

My "observance" continued today as I coped with the worst weather Texas has had so far this year (sleet and freezing rain) which would certainly make any native Scot feel right at home.

My Scottish ancestors come from Ayreshire and Mull and my Ulster ancestors come from County Tyrone both from about the time of the American Revolution and three generations ago by way of Ontario, Canada.

212

roman zaraza,

Canada 01/12/2006 01:51:15

Saint Andrew was in Ukraine before coming to Scotland. Andrew or variations of it are popular among Ukrainians and those in the Diaspora

213

roman zaraza,

Canada 01/12/2006 01:54:46

Saint Andrew was in Ukraine before going to Scotland.

Andrew and variations of it is a popular name among Ukrainan males.

214

Jake,

USA 01/12/2006 04:06:42

170--amen! How many of the Scottish authors above ever actually go to Church? - seems there may be some hypocracy! The Scots abroad appear to be more patriotic and better organised than those at home--are you waiting for the government to arrange the celebrations for you?

215

MacKayLass,

United States 01/12/2006 05:08:03

Clan MacKay, highland clearances. We didn't willingly abandon Scotland. If I could get my family back to Scotland, I would surely do so.

216

Mr Thai Land,

Bangkok 01/12/2006 08:53:39

How many hundred's of years have you Scots been kicking the crap out of each other for? Seems like some things never change, eh?

It seems to me that Scotland has a lot to celebrate and a lot to be ashamed about too. But so does every country in the world. If you cannot get together and just be happy about who you are and where you all came from then there truly is not hope for your country.

When I was in Scotland, I thought it was a wonderful place. The three cities - Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow - all have nice aspects and the countryside in places like Ross shire, Skye and Mull is truly wonderful. The only thing that detracts from it is your attitude to yourself and your fellow countryman. People read far too much into discussion boards like these, but the level of anger against having a day of national pride really speaks volumes about you Scots. Get it sorted or there is no hope for you, whether you stay part of England or not.

And as far the forgettable person in the U.S.A that thinks I hate Scots, I am sorry to disappoint you but I dont hate any race or individual in life. Never have and never will. I even have asbolute tolerance for Americans. But if you think my comments are hateful then best not read them. I don't!

217

Aiken Head,

Berlin 01/12/2006 12:42:39

Fascinating stuff. This is an issue you could write a book about. I’d like to offer these thoughts:

David Hume would be a better figure for a national holiday (apart from the ‘holi’ element!) as:

1. he was a Scot.
2. He was a real historical figure rather than a fictional character in a myth that has caused, and is still causing, grief in Scotland (see some of the posts above).
3. He played a significant part (early) in the process of dragging Scotland and Europe out of the Dark Ages and is therefore well worth celebrating.

Any takers? No? I can’t get excited enough to go out and drink heavily either, but could some of the more religious contributors see the point?

It has been suggested above that England is the least religious country in the Benighted Kingdom. Sorry, surprisingly I think you’ll find that it is Scotland (recently reported in the Freethinker magazine I believe). One more thing to be proud of!

It is very difficult to manufacture an ‘instant tradition’ and anyway we’ve already got two. Burns is widely celebrated and Hogmanay is recognised worldwide as our bash to which everybody else is cordially invited. I respectfully suggest that not even Paddy’s Day equals that

218

Olwen,

Mauritania 01/12/2006 12:58:29

Well the hype about St Andrew's day certainly hasn't penetrated Mauritania yet (look it up on the map) but we flew the flag anyway...even though I don't have a clue who St Andrew actually was...and I'm sure I'm not alone there.

219

Scottie,

01/12/2006 13:04:08

Craig at 40, wasn't Scotland independent in 1706? I thought James VI of Scotland/James I of England was 1707?

Grand post at 134!

Christopher at 162, would you be able to tell me what "My blood is royal" would be in Gaelic please? I did contact a Gaelic translation website but never got any response. Thank you

220

catherine - married to a proud scottish american,

atlanta GA 01/12/2006 16:30:24

scottie - 222
my husband has something similar tattooed - it's a clan macalpin motto i think - 's rioghal mo dhream - i think that's the spelling - the translation being my tribe or my blood is royal.

and to all the rest - a happy st. andrew's day. here's to future independence!

221

Reiver,

Edinburgh 01/12/2006 16:56:59

59. Mr Thai Land - this lot is proud to be British ...

222

Reiver,

Edinburgh 01/12/2006 16:59:12

#222 your about 100 years out dude !!!

223

Duncan,

on tour 01/12/2006 17:03:00

The English regime has used diplomacy as a ploy to gain time and advantage. It has uniformly defied resolutions demanding full independence. Over the years, Scotsmen have been threatened by English officials, electronically bugged, and systematically deceived. Peaceful efforts to gain independence have failed again and again -- because we are not dealing with peaceful men.

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the English regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal philosophies ever devised. This regime has already used brainwashing against it's Welsh neighbors and against Irish people.

BAD TRIP WAS IT?

224

Ben Macdui,

57.07033 Degrees, North. 02/12/2006 00:06:43

GP, #126. "Angle". "More Danish than english really".

Wrong, the Angles were English.

Wikipedia. "Following the departure of the Angles from Anglia (Schleswig, Germany), the region was occupied by Danish Vikings.
"Angles" were among the speakers of Old Saxon". "Anglo-Saxon" the common language of England (non-Danelaw)".
Alfred's Orosius uses Angelcynn (kin) for England or the English people; Bede, Angelfolc (folk); however, we also find Engel, Englan (the people), Englaland and Englisch".

225

Scottie,

04/12/2006 12:45:03

Thank you Catherine @ 223 for reminding me of it, now I wonder how big a tattoo that would be and where I would like to have it :)

227, Wikipedia isn't really the definitive reference, anyway the Welsh are more the original 'English' than the Angles.


 

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