Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


St Andrew's Day: The new battleground?

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date:
03 November 2007
ST ANDREW'S Day became the new battleground yesterday in the debate over Scotland's identity, as the First Minister unveiled how the event was to be marked for the first time under an SNP government.
In a flurry of Saltire-waving and patriotic songs, Alex Salmond said Scotland would celebrate its patron saint on 30 November with events around the country, heralding the start of a new, two-month winter festival.

The First Minister insisted it would be a celebration of Scottishness and denied he was using it as "SNP propaganda".

But opposition MSPs accused the Scottish Government of hijacking St Andrew's Day for its own political purposes and warned against attempting to use events to further calls for independence.

George Foulkes, a Labour MSP for the Lothians, said: "What the SNP is wanting to do is to try to link the flag and Flower of Scotland and St Andrew's Day with their political philosophy of separation and narrow nationalism.

"I think the Saltire, the anthem and St Andrew's Day are the possession of all Scots, not just in Scotland but overseas. It is part of our history and international, and should not be to do with one political party."

The winter festival will take in three uniquely Scottish events - St Andrew's Day on 30 November, Hogmanay on 31 December and Burns Night on 25 January.

Information packs, which include Saltire flags, have been sent to nurseries and universities, while leaflets have gone out to schools suggesting ways to celebrate St Andrew. The exercise is costing just under £6,000.

A website lists events around the country, including ceilidhs, concerts and a "living history" demonstration to recreate elements of the Battle of Culloden, where the Jacobites fought government forces.

It is not only in Scotland that St Andrew is celebrated on 30 November. Around the world, from Abu Dhabi to Washington DC, there will be balls, dinners, lectures and concerts.

Mr Salmond said: "St Andrew's Day is a celebration of Scotland at home and abroad. It is a chance to enjoy the multicultural Scotland we have become. But it's more than an excuse for a party - it's an opportunity to celebrate our history and our talents.

"You would have to have the most enormous Scottish cringe to believe there is anything wrong with celebrating your own nationality while respecting others.

"People in Scotland and across the world celebrate their nationality while respecting other people's identity. It is part of being a self confident country."

The First Minister said St Andrew's Day was for all political parties. "This is not SNP propaganda; this is Scottish promotion," he said. "The Saltire does not belong to the SNP - it belongs to Scotland."

Tourism bosses welcomed the new winter festival as an opportunity to increase the number of visitors over the winter months and boost the economy.

Gavin Ellis, the chairman of the British Hospitality Association Scotland, said: "Any efforts to promote Scotland as a must-do destination in the perceived off-season is to be viewed as a positive move."

He said it was up to tourism operators to make the most of the opportunity.

"It is not just the parties - Scotland is a fantastic place to visit in the winter. If it helps focus business as to what it can do to make itself more appealing when there is spare capacity, then people will come, and it is up to the industry to create additional attractions for our guests to visit," he said.

However, Josh McAllister, the president of Edinburgh University Students Association, said he was concerned that the use of flags, which were also sent to schools by the last administration, could be seen as propaganda. "If the Westminster government sent Union flags to every school, college and university in Scotland, would the SNP support it? Most students know that any national identity is about a lot more than a piece of cloth," he said.

"The general point here is whether sending out flags is the best use of civil servant time and public money."

Jackie Baillie, the Labour MSP for Dumbarton, said the government should not be telling people how to celebrate St Andrew's Day. "Anyone who has seen the success Ireland has had with St Patrick's Day would want that same celebration for St Andrew's Day," she said.

"However, the real secret of a great St Andrew's Day won't be about government orders. It will be about local people and local activities. Rather than telling people what to do on St Andrew's Day, the SNP government would do better to listen to the Scottish people."

The Scottish Government's plans come at a time when the Conservatives at Westminster are questioning the devolution settlement as unfair to the English, and commentators such as Kelvin MacKenzie of the Sun have criticised the Scots for spending money rather than earning it.

Peter Lynch, a senior lecturer in politics at the University of Stirling, said the SNP was trying to "build a nation" in a similar way as Westminster was promoting a sense of "British values and citizenship". He went on: "I suppose what the SNP are trying to do is to make Scotland look like a nation state rather than a region of the UK."

Professor Tom Devine, professor of Scottish History at Edinburgh University, welcomed a celebration of St Andrew's Day by unionists and nationalists.

However, he said education had to improve so people had a "balanced" sense of Scottish nationalism.

"Symbolic tokenism [like St Andrew's Day] is not unimportant but insignificant to the need for a full scale re-engineering of teaching not just Scottish history but also the Scottish present and future," he said.

"We would have a more relaxed relationship with England if we knew about our national history and relationship over the years. The danger is, because of educational difficulties, people have grown up with a number of myths and beliefs, most of which are insignificant but some of which can be difficult.

"The most important single thing is to ensure that future generations have a proper understanding of where they come from and also Scotland's position in the world."

This year, only public servants have the option of a half-day St Andrew's Day holiday, but in 2008 all civil servants will get the day off and it is hoped businesses will follow suit.

Page 1 of 1

 
1

,

03/11/2007 00:51:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1110988, Article id was mapped to record!
2

walter,

03/11/2007 00:56:27

The 30th of November will make me feel no more Scottish than any other day, just being Scottish is a celebration and I feel that way every day.

3

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 03/11/2007 00:59:18

Great to see. A natìonal day for a natíon. Alex was right when he said that only cringers would find something wrong with it.

And the rest of the article is made up from cringers' comments. What on earth are they afraid of?

4

Aqwes,

Edinburgh 03/11/2007 01:03:13

"Josh McAllister, the president of Edinburgh University Students Association," is a Labour party member, and was the Labour Party candidate for the position of EUSA president.

The Herald ought to have disclosed this.

George Foulkes, a Labour MSP for the Lothians, said: "...I think the Saltire, the anthem and St Andrew's Day are the possession of all Scots, not just in Scotland but overseas. It is part of our history and international, and should not be to do with one political party."

Maybe your party should ave done more when they were in power to celebrate St Andrew's day, the saltaire, and Flower of Scotland, than give us an "optional" day off.

5

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 03/11/2007 01:06:25

1. English voice...

I've just reported that comment as unsuitable.

6

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 01:15:01

Well, well. I have another nationalist impostor trying to make me look bad by using a similar username.

And denigrating my original post

How original and very, very, very childish.

7

Senga Jean,

Scotland 03/11/2007 01:18:45

Well personally I love Scotland ..good bits and bad bits..hoping the good bits will outnunber the bad bits in time...I will not smile upon those who do not share my dream. In fact those who hate and diminish Scotland...hate and diminish themselves. Why does Scotland attract the crazies like #1#2#4 etc

8

AJ of Fife,

03/11/2007 01:19:27

Wee Eck has his haund on the pulse and Scotland has never been in better haunds!

9

,

03/11/2007 01:21:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111021, Article id was mapped to record!
10

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 03/11/2007 01:24:53

11. English voice. Who was talking about you cringing in post 3?

I was talking about the article

11

,

03/11/2007 01:27:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111032, Article id was mapped to record!
12

,

03/11/2007 01:31:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111039, Article id was mapped to record!
13

,

03/11/2007 01:32:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111042, Article id was mapped to record!
14

,

03/11/2007 01:35:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111047, Article id was mapped to record!
15

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 01:35:43

13. Jock Tamson

A load of nat-brats have copied my username somehow and are posting as me.

The only one from me is #1.

16

,

03/11/2007 01:37:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
17

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 01:39:08

WAY TO GO, THE SNP.....WAY HAY

18

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 03/11/2007 01:39:31

get your point, English voice...

19

,

03/11/2007 01:39:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111059, Article id was mapped to record!
20

,

03/11/2007 01:40:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
21

,

03/11/2007 01:40:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111061, Article id was mapped to record!
22

,

03/11/2007 01:41:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111062, Article id was mapped to record!
23

,

03/11/2007 01:44:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111068, Article id was mapped to record!
24

,

03/11/2007 01:45:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111070, Article id was mapped to record!
25

,

03/11/2007 01:46:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111075, Article id was mapped to record!
26

,

03/11/2007 01:47:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111076, Article id was mapped to record!
27

,

03/11/2007 01:47:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111077, Article id was mapped to record!
28

The Pict.,

Canada 03/11/2007 01:48:03

Great! Another astute move by Scotland's PRIME MINISTER. Yes that's Alex Salmon I'm talking about.

All the cringers must be doing a super cringe now. AM 2 and Hugh V MacLaughlan leading the way as usual.

Slainte'

29

,

03/11/2007 01:49:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111080, Article id was mapped to record!
30

,

03/11/2007 01:50:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111082, Article id was mapped to record!
31

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 01:51:18

I AM THE REAL ENGLISH VOICE AND I VOTE SNP

32

,

03/11/2007 01:52:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111086, Article id was mapped to record!
33

Hotel Yorba,

Glasgow 03/11/2007 01:53:03

Foulkes isn't even Scots, so no wonder he doesn't want to celebrate. Might be a different story if St George though.

Salmond should start pushing for a Bannockburn day, instead; this is what the people demand. A celebration of Scots nationhood every year, just like the Irish have with St. Pats day. A time to focus in on what we are, where we came from,where we are going.

34

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 01:53:33

WAY TO GO THE SNP

35

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 01:54:54

#36 is an obvious Troll

Not dotty enough

Scotland does not have sufficient dots to be self-sufficient.

You need the English subsidy, have you people never heard of the dot...com boom.

Well it is in London, yes London, that's where all the dots are at.

Get used to it.

36

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 01:55:01

FOULKES IS A DEAD PIECE OF ROTTEN WOOD LIKE THE REST OF LABOUR
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP ENGLISH VOICE IS A BUSTED FLUSH

37

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 01:57:28

48

Read the other threads, labour admits Scotland can go it alone, i am in for the long haul tonight
Do not set your alarm clock

38

AJ of Fife,

03/11/2007 01:57:38

okaaaaay!

39

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 03/11/2007 01:58:39

I suspect the non breaking space is the reason for multiple voices

40

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 01:58:56

50

you will have to do better than that to flush me out

I AM THE SEEKER OF THE TRUTH MY MY

SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP

41

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 01:59:34

I hope that English voice.. with the two dots doesn't show up.
He is mad!

42

,

03/11/2007 02:00:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111101, Article id was mapped to record!
43

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:00:39

WHAT EVER
YAWN YAWN YAWN
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP

44

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:01:56

COME ON LETS GET THIS THING KRANCKED UP

45

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:02:09

SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP

46

,

03/11/2007 02:03:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111107, Article id was mapped to record!
47

,

03/11/2007 02:04:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111109, Article id was mapped to record!
48

,

03/11/2007 02:05:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111111, Article id was mapped to record!
49

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:05:31

#51. .An English voice

...and miles to go before I sleep

50

,

03/11/2007 02:05:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111113, Article id was mapped to record!
51

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:06:20

WE ALL LIVE IN A YELLOW SNP, YELLOW SNP
AND WE ALL LOVE ALEX

52

,

03/11/2007 02:07:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111115, Article id was mapped to record!
53

,

03/11/2007 02:08:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111117, Article id was mapped to record!
54

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:08:42

WE ARE THE SNP, SCOTLANDS CHOICE

55

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:09:10

LABOUR BLEW IT BIG TIME WE ARE THE SNP

56

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:09:43

BENO AND DANDY WE ARE THE SNP

57

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:09:54

#65. N?vaScotia™

Like those pr**ks from Kirkaldy did in St Andrews after they saw Breaveheart at the Cinema.

Very brave
Very Scottish
Very SNP

58

Edward,

03/11/2007 02:10:40

I seem to recall that the SNP when in opposition wanted more effort for St Andrews day, even to the extent of having a public holiday. Labour and the Libdems at the time were not interested
Now that the SNP are in government, it seems they are keeping that promise
Its excellent that the Scottish Government are pushing Scotland to the fore as apposed to the unionist parties who like to pretend they support Scotland and would rather have a watered down celebration

59

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:12:05

TATTY TATTY SAT ON THE WALL AND SAID.........
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP

60

?yrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 02:13:24

English voice BEGONE

61

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:14:18

WHEN SCOTLAND IS FREE, ENGLAND WILL MELT INTO A LITTLE COUNTRY WITH NO POWER ..WELL DONE

62

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:15:12

76

IS THAT IT? COME ON .SAME RABBLE, SAME TROLL

63

Edward,

03/11/2007 02:15:44

The website for the winter festival including St Andrews day is at
http://www.scotland.org/

64

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:15:47

#74. An English voice...

My powers of perception are truly mind-boggling, even if I say so myself.

65

,

03/11/2007 02:16:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111132, Article id was mapped to record!
66

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:16:54

#81. An English voice…

Very modest people the English, even if I say so myself.

67

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:17:33

79

THATS THE WAY TO DO IT, NOW LETS SEE WHO WILL GO TO BED FIRST, I BET IT IS YOU

SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP
SNP

68

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 02:18:13

Why do the SNP think they own Scottishness.

It is cringeworthy to watch fatty and his merry band plaster on fake smiles and say trite things in auld Skaytushnuss, ye ken likes by the way gadgy.

69

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:18:29

#84

CAN I JOIN IN THE FUN ?

70

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:19:19

86

Why yes, come on in and join the snp

71

Richardinho,

03/11/2007 02:19:35

the Scotsman newspaper and George Foulkes in cahoots together in order to try and pick fights and create conflict between Scotland and England where there is none-yet again!

Shame on them!

72

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:20:41

85

Yes another monika, now i know who they all are, i am the master at flushing out the dead wood

73

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:20:49

#85. Andy Dufresne

It's the way you tell 'em

Tell 'em again for me big boy

74

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:21:55

Come Unionist monikers, come and get me
SNP

75

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:22:44

85

Tell them for me to, dont leave me out

76

,

03/11/2007 02:23:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111147, Article id was mapped to record!
77

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:24:29

malta
staples
am2
niko picked my nose
janis
ev all pathetic low lifes


SNP
SNP
SNP

78

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:25:05

LOOKS LIKE I AM GETTING THE UPPER HAND

SNP
SNP
SNP

79

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:25:31

OH, I NEARLY FORGOT.

SNP

80

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:25:42

SNP

81

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:25:50

100

82

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:25:58

100

83

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:26:11

FOR THE SNP

84

MacAskill,

03/11/2007 02:26:24

£6,000 seems too small a sum. It should be given at least the same amount of funding the ponds at Holyrood get.

85

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:26:25

YES WHAT A RESULT

86

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 03/11/2007 02:26:36

Had this for 10 years. It's from a desktop publishing thing from 1995.

€  ‚ ƒ „ … † ‡ ˆ ‰ Š ‹ Œ  Ž   ‘ ’ “ ” • – — ˜ ™ š › œ  ž Ÿ   ¡ ¢ £ ¤ ¥ ¦ § ¨ © ª « ¬ ­­ ® ¯ ° ± ² ³ ´ µ ¶ · ¸ ¹ º » ¼ ½ ¾ ¿ À

etc

87

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:28:43

SNP

88

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:29:39

$%^&**((_+_)(*&^%$£"£$%^&*()_+_)(*&^%$£"£$%^&*()_)(*&^

found this in my pants

89

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:30:41

That must be one of the fastest hundreds ever.

You Jocks would never have made it without the English to hold your hands.

Without the Union you are nothing
Together we are strong

Rule Britannia.

90

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:31:19

well said, now vote SNP

91

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:31:46

I here for the 1000

92

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:32:36

The 100 is a pussy cat

93

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 03/11/2007 02:33:08

105
.AEv, what boring symbols

94

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:33:30

10% of 1000 mark has gone..

SNP

95

Richardinho,

03/11/2007 02:33:38

What a joke 'lord' foulkes is. been reading over the register of members interests on the Scottish parliament website; Foulkes gets 50,000 quid a year for three days work a month on some 'consultancy'. who says crime doesn't pay!

96

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:34:13

You to are boring, but i do not cry about it

97

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:35:06

Shoot the fool number 112, i will pay you

98

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:38:10

not getting your own little way english voice

99

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:38:16

111. .An English voice

Of course it has and things well get steadilly wosre, from now on in.

Never heard of the Hubbert Peak Production Theory dummie?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

100

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:38:45

am i to constant for you

101

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:40:04

116

i do not read links, waste of time

snp

102

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:40:49

This is to slow , im going to bed

103

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:41:38

well not yet

104

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 03/11/2007 02:42:56

þerhaþ§ Ï §hall just wi§h all the voice§ æ ƒond ƒarewell ƒor now.

Night, Meth§

105

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:44:34

#111. .An English voice

That flumoxed you your tiny Nationalist brain can't handle Links.

106

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:46:47

#122. An English voice…

Your links cannot harm me...

My Saltire, is like a shield of steel.

107

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:48:26

#123

Mine to is like a shield of steel, english voice is rattled yi canny beat it

108

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:49:18

NOW WHO AM I ?

109

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:49:36

#123. An English voice…

You don't have any steel

Remember Ravenscraig?

We shut it down years ago, striped out the machinery and took it back home with us.

110

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:50:13

1 DOT BEFORE MONIKA, NOW WHO WOULD HAVE DONE THAT

111

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:50:59

or was that Linwood

112

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:51:11

126

IS THAT IT, COME ON DO BETTER THAN THAT

113

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:51:15

or Bathgate

114

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 02:51:40

Such happy memories.

115

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:52:14

WE SPEND YOUR HARD CASH ON FREE MEALS AND ON NATS GOING TO NEWYORK

116

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:52:41

VERY POOR DEBATING

117

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:53:01

LETS PLAY SOME MUSIC

118

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:53:32

God save the bitch

119

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:53:56

or sweet chewing gum

120

,

03/11/2007 02:54:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111205, Article id was mapped to record!
121

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:54:33

or manchester going boom boom

122

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:54:50

or brighton going boom boom

123

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:55:18

god the english are hated at every turn

124

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:56:13

well anyway, we run them and spend their money

125

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 03/11/2007 02:56:46

Well here we go once again, when Scotland wishes to celebrate one of our NATIONAL ICONS, then the PATHETIC unionists get all upset to the point of, non communicado!!! They are PATHETIC as they are UGLY!!!! We all look forward to the day of SCOTTISH INDEPENDENC and away from the dictatorship of england. Amen!

126

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:58:16

3am

127

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 02:58:54

142

agreed

128

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 03:00:00

123. An English voice…

Your links cannot harm me...

I have just scoffed a sliced sausage and fried potato scone Doubler.

Washed down with Irn' Bru

I am SNP

I am Invincible.

129

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 03:02:56

snp

130

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 03:07:05

WHO AM I ? CLUE

G. O .A M

131

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 03:10:07

3.12 AM

132

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 03:16:15

Will the Real Slime Shadey Stand up?

133

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 03:19:06

AND BE COUNTED

134

An Beal Bacht,

Travelling in Nihlon 03/11/2007 03:22:31

To all the English Voices on this thread (bar one) keep it up. Get that bawbag oot fur good.

135

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 03:24:42

THANKS

136

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 03:25:15

#151. scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon

And so say all of us.

137

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 03:26:12

Testing

138

,

03/11/2007 03:26:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111249, Article id was mapped to record!
139

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 03:26:45

Ya beaut

140

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 03:28:40

AND ALL FOR THE SNP

141

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 03:28:47

Now then, would all the other An English voice...'s please go away?

142

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 03:30:09

NO, NOT ON YIR NELLY

143

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 03:30:37

P.FL..PS

144

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 03:30:58

you with the .An English voice require a lesson in imitation

145

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 03:31:42

GIVE THEM TO ME

146

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 03:33:15

#155. An English voice…

That's the whole point, who in their right mind would want the like of you, you rasist, anti-Scotish, foul-mouthed smarmy creep, speaking on their behalf.

Not the English or the Welsh or the Scotish, are you perchance from Ulster?

147

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 03:33:24

Lesson 1. Learn how to duplicate the name exactly.

148

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 03:35:38

The English are far superior to the Jockos. Gave themselves up to us, didn't they?

We run their little country for them and the ingrates can only moan.

149

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 03:36:49

164
POINT TAKEN GET IT POINT TAKEN

150

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 03:37:52

MR BROWN RUNS YOU AND SPENDS YIR MONEY YI MANK

151

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 03:38:19

163. An English voice…

Fakie!
Me foul mouthed?
link to a post where I have been foul-mouthed or racist?

152

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 03:41:38

168, Mini Me, post 1 is a good example of your foul mouth

153

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 03:47:59

Was he eating garlic

154

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 03:48:47

#164. An English voice...

You are a forger and a criminal, I'm going to tell the Governor on you and he will take your computer away.

When you were jailed, the last hope the nats had of balancing the books went down with you.

I hope you rot in hell.

For ever! you Islamist apologist and IRA mouthpiece/ringpiece Impostor.

155

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 03:54:02

#169. An English voice...

I didn't say that, I just thought it.
Some infantile nat conspirator posted it.

156

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 03:55:45

171, Namesake, imposter-not impostor. Don't know of anyone who posts under the ringpiece moniker

157

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 03:55:50

#170. .An English voice

Frog food will never touch my lips.

158

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 03:57:14

172, An English voice...
Apologies. I was not to know. It wasn't me either.

159

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 03:57:54

174. An English voice…

What about dog food?

160

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:00:31

Have you got some, 176?

161

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:02:55

Frog food doesn't touch a frog's lips either. Straight into the mouth from the tongue.

I like garlic sausage - French garlic sausage

162

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 04:03:55

#177. An English voice...

I did have but...but the dog declared himself independent and took it all away.

163

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:06:08

Scottish food ain't much though

164

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 04:09:15

#178. An English voice...

Got you!

Only Arsehire Scot accuses us of eating flies.

You will burn in hell for this you fat smug zero.

I am the one true voice!

165

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:10:10

An English voice...

Could be you are being left again with your own name. Good luck.

166

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:16:19

Me?

167

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:17:20

Thank you, 182.

168

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:18:02

Not at all, 184.

169

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:18:31

But I insist

170

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:19:24

Oh, well, all right. It was my pleasure.

171

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:25:39

VOTE SNP ALL ENGLISH VOICES

172

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:26:13

IT IS IN THE NANE OF GOD

173

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:26:56

WELL THAT IS WHAT T G O A W M WOULD SAY

174

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:27:14

GOING FOR THE 200

175

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:29:25

.An English voice. I always vote for one of the sensible UK parties.

176

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:30:27

what one

177

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:31:59

what one dam it

178

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:32:07

UKIP

179

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:32:34

trash

180

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:33:07

No I don't. Speak for yourself.

181

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:33:25

nothing party and always will be

182

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:33:26

I vote Tory

183

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:33:36

Labour

184

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:33:42

glad of that

185

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:34:12

libs for me

186

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:34:32

plaid cymru

187

An English voice...,

03/11/2007 04:36:46

Time for me to lie back and dream of England.

188

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:38:33

vote mec vannin and keep the manks out

189

.An English voice,

03/11/2007 04:39:53

204 chicken, stay till the end and fight for your flat land

190

An Beal Bacht,

Travelling in Nihlon 03/11/2007 04:50:49

English voice (bar one) heroic.

History in the making!

An epic battle is being fought today between the forces of good and evil. Who will triumph? Only Alex of the Wondrous Vision knows for sure.

This thread must be saved as it will, no doubt, be regarded in years to come as the Scottish Iliad!

191

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 03/11/2007 05:00:14

This thread will be deleted for the utter crap it is.

192

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 03/11/2007 05:04:54

Who else wants to be unconstructive make a mockery out of these threads and turn them into playground slagging matches.

Do these cowards have nothing better to do? You're no better than the hoodys sculking around some inner city seedy spar.

193

An Beal Bacht,

Travelling in Nihlon 03/11/2007 05:13:18

Haleakelaman,

Go to bed.

194

49th State,

Running about with Wee Willie Winky 03/11/2007 05:17:23

To the point, Saint Andrew's flag and the English are combined - and the USA's flag, Old Glory, has taking it's roots from them.

195

Lanna,

03/11/2007 05:23:33

and here I thought there'd be some interesting debate...

196

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 03/11/2007 05:25:38

Scunnert
I'm at work

197

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 03/11/2007 05:28:06

#212 Forget it Lanna. I hope the editor deletes the thread.

198

49th State,

Running about with Wee Willie Winky 03/11/2007 05:31:51

Why can't the Scots be free? After all, when the English took Scotland for thier own, they left no bill of sale or as such. The English have no right to the nation of the scottish people.

199

,

03/11/2007 05:37:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111387, Article id was mapped to record!
200

An Beal Bacht,

Travelling in Nihlon 03/11/2007 05:49:31

Haleakelaman,

These 'English voices" are conducting a battle to eliminate one of the most obnoxious, racist, thread hoggin, anti-Scottish p****s on Scotsman sites. Reasoned argument is just grist to this guy's mill. He is spoilling it for everyone. Let them destroy him utterly.

201

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 03/11/2007 05:51:52

#216
Letting it ride is not one of my traits. Although I do have my countries' interest at heart I don't rule the World.
By the way, I'm curious, do you travel in some China province or wearing pretty polly?

202

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 05:53:31

Godd Morning All-its a pity that the topic has thus far been hijacked by morons. I hope to debate the issue with adults a little later once the Editor has sorted out the children.
Sorry does that sound pompous-dont mean to!!

203

An English voice:::,

03/11/2007 06:04:58

Oi fink I'm getting a rash.

204

An English voice:::,

03/11/2007 06:06:39

Knees up maava braan

205

An English voice:::,

03/11/2007 06:09:23

Morning....this is the day shift An English voice:::

206

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 03/11/2007 06:10:44

#219
see my post 209
moderator can't be worlking yet.

207

An Beal Bacht,

Travelling in Nihlon 03/11/2007 06:13:24

Haleakelaman,

Now that we've established a conection may I point out that these "cyber warriors" made it possible.

Scotland, as a nation and a country, is in greater danger than it has ever been. An end game is being played out and if we lose we will be gone for good.

Scots have always been good at assimilation so we may, as individuals, survive and prosper. But what of the nation? We need, as a people, to have this conversation - without the distraction of .An English voice...\.

208

,

03/11/2007 06:17:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111410, Article id was mapped to record!
209

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 06:44:29

223 Haleakeleman-my sentiments entirely.

210

Pilrig.,

Livingston 03/11/2007 06:46:00

222 - I was wondering why this threid had got some many posts at this time in the morning. Is this a private party or can anyone join in ?

211

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 06:55:09

St. Andrews day and the Scottish saltire -all Scotsmen Nationalist and Unionist, born or part of the ethnic diaspora, take great pride in Scotland and her symbols. With respect to my Nationalist friends you are entirely wrong if you think that Unionists are any less proud of their Scottishness. Our belief is that you can be both Scottish and British as you can be both English and British or Texan and American. If Alex salmond seeks to promote St. Andrew as a symbol of Scotland I for one back him to the hilt. If however he seeks to imply that he or the SNP have some kind of monopoly or right of first refusal over these symbols of nationhood then I would put him in the same category as other politicians who wrap themselves in the flag and claim it as their own-the BNP and george bush spring to mind

212

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 06:58:07

227 Pilrig-Morning! Seems you would need to clear that with "An EnglishVoice"!

213

Boy Wonder,

03/11/2007 07:03:19

227. Pilrig ... looks like the bairns have been up all night! When "Der Moderator" comes on after 9 or 10am, they're gonna have a fit with this thread!

I hope they delete the lot and let us start again ... with the eejit who started it being moderated!!!

214

A Better Way,

03/11/2007 07:22:57

Come on lads, let the BNP supporter write his shiite. He wins more people to the Scottish Way everytime he posts.

215

The laird.,

leadhills. 03/11/2007 07:25:13

jackie bailey and her coherts,
in the blue labour numpty party said the S.N.P. have to listen to the people of scotland, but perhaps in her mafia had listened to the people of scot land she would not be where they are today maggie broon started the ball rolling with blue labours brittishness day that had to be retaliated on especialy in scotland as a none runner,by trying to destroy our identity anything that helps to promote scotland and preserve our own unique identity in the world thould be welcomed and not ridiculled by any individual for there own personnal self interest, welcome to the new scotland free from unionist tyrany all the fake unionists are being found out and unravelled.

216

donald,

weegieland 03/11/2007 07:26:12

John MacLean, 1897-1923, renowned International and Scottish Republican Socialist, died on St Andrew's day suffering from pneumonia. He also suffered poverty after being sacked and blacklisted from his teaching job. He gave his only coat to a black Jamaican comrade and was living on pease brose. He opposed the rival Imperialist First World war and was appointed Soviet Consul in Scotland by Lenin and the Bolsheviks. The very British left never forgave John MacLean for supporting Scottish Independence. The real Maxton said that he could achieve more in a (real) Scottish Parliament in six months than he could in a lifetime in Westminster. There is an annual commemoration from outside Eastwood Cemetery, where he is buried, to his Cairn at Pollokshaws Cemetery, Shawbridge St, not far from Pollok Borough Halls.) Full details:- http://www.srsm.net/macleanarchive/

217

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 07:33:10

233 donald-a real honour to be associated with lenin and the bolsheviks!

218

,

03/11/2007 07:35:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111471, Article id was mapped to record!
219

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 07:36:51

As I Vexillologist, it gladens my heart to see the Saltires in the photograph in true blue-not that horrible faded washed out blue much beloved by some members of the nationalist movement

220

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 07:39:41

236-is that the REAL English Voice?

221

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 03/11/2007 07:43:09

If we are going to have another public holiday can we lose one of the May holidays instead. I don't mind a holiday about the end of November it breaks up the long haul from August to Christmas. But as an employer I don't want to be paying for anymore holidays.
As for saltire waving, kilt wearing, pipes-a-playing, best leave that for the tourists. We're Scottish and that's fine.

222

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 07:53:13

233 Donald-logged into the John McLean site-seems he was sincere in his beliefs. The sad thing is that whilst in theory,a socialist-communist society where all worked for the common good would obviously create a juster,more humane society how do you get such a system to work? Without the incentive of filthy lucre not many are really interested in work! The SA experience is a good example-the leaders in the ANC-Communist liberation movement in their red T-Shirts and Lenin caps ten years ago, now all wear Saville Row and drive Mercs! The new Political-capitalist elite in this country make the former rulers look like amateurs with the masses still basically mired in poverty!

223

walter,

03/11/2007 07:57:13

#9
I will not smile upon those who do not share my dream. In fact those who hate and diminish Scotland...hate and diminish themselves. Why does Scotland attract the crazies

Well there's a typical response, if you do not think as part of the collective then you are hated by them and accused of hating Scotland.
The groupthink may need a day set aside to clad themselves in tartan and wave flags just to prove to themselves they are Scottish.
Fortunately the majority of Scots are still capable of individual thought and are proud of the fact they are Scottish.
We do not need a specific day to celebrate being Scottish, just being Scottish is a celebration in itself.

224

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 08:04:08

241-Walter-good post!

Most of the rest of yous are I suppose still in yer beds! Where else to be in a November Scotland! hot as hell here!

225

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 08:04:10

241

Well said, GroupThink day is indeed unwelcome. Why do the SNP want to turn us into an American spectacle with their national pridein flag and country to the point of lunacy.

226

I'm no really here,

03/11/2007 08:13:03

George Foulkes, a Labour MSP for the Lothians, said: "What the SNP is wanting to do is to try to link the flag and Flower of Scotland and St Andrew's Day with their political philosophy of separation and narrow nationalism.

Sorry Lord Haw Haw, too late - always considered it that anyway - just like the English consider their St Georges Day.

Well done Sir Ek - we need to get rid of these Bleak Midwinters - whether seasonal or economist.

227

I'm no really here,

03/11/2007 08:15:36

I wonder if "An English Voice..." holds the same views about the St Georges Day rallies.

228

Goat Boy,

03/11/2007 08:16:27

Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer!

229

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 08:17:01

244-Im no really etc-St Georges day is not really big in england

230

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 08:18:16

244 Im no really-what about the bleak Midsummers!!

231

walter,

03/11/2007 08:23:41

#248
what about the bleak Midsummers!!

They're murderous

232

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 03/11/2007 08:26:38

It is time that we had a National Day and St. Andrew's Day seems as good a day as any. But a whole month of festivities? Edinburgh can be like living in Brigadoon for most of the year we don't need more tartan kitsch. We need an ecoomy based on high quality R&D, specialised engineering and high quality financial services, not Scotland dressed up as McDisneyland.

And by the way, who is Josh Mcllister? Put your money on this student NuLab hack spending the rest of his life as a full time grown up NuLab hack.

233

Tweedmouth,

03/11/2007 08:28:22

There seems to be very little difference between the SNP and the BNP when it comes to flag waving and rabble rousing among the gutter-educated element of both nations. Both think that hating your neighbour or a stranger is better than respecting your fellow man.

Flags and songs, slogans and nationalist hysteria - reminds me of 1914-18 and Lewis Grassic Gibbon's novel 'Sunset Song'.

If this is the level that nationalist politicians intend to descend to in Scotland then we are all in for a very rough time. The strategy is evidently to emphasise racial and cultural difference at all times, to foment hatred for our English enighbours, to drive wedges of division between British citizens on two sides of an imaginary line on the ground and to fan the flames of xenophobia, anglophobia and nationalism by any and all means.

Politicans are scum - and I mean ALL politicians. Divide and rule is always their main strategy and Alex Salmond appears to think it is the ONLY shot in his locker.

234

Derick fae Yell,

The St Andrews Hoose 03/11/2007 08:31:22

Vote SNP for better holidays!

I demand my 'best slogan' fee.

235

Meths,

03/11/2007 08:35:58

Off to the airport. Cheers all.

236

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 08:40:42

252-Derrick fae..where the hell have u been. Vote for me-I would throw in Victorias birthday and Rudyard kipling day!

237

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 08:42:48

Meths-is that the former Methalions-enjoy your trip. Coming to SA? bring yer Macintosh but dont worry about the jersey!

238

,

03/11/2007 08:44:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111596, Article id was mapped to record!
239

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 08:45:23

255-Rudyard Kipling-the well known Indian Author that is

240

Derick fae Yell,

The St Andrews Hoose 03/11/2007 08:46:35

Geoff - been busy and not had time to spend online.

Not so sure about Victoria day? but then again she was a bit of a wee minx, so that might be worth celebrating!

Little Known Fact: Rudyard Kipling was so named because he was conceived in Rudyard - victorian spa town down Cheshire way and a bit like Royston Vasey but with more trees and a lake

241

Mr Bob Dobolina,

Hootsmon and his masters voice. 03/11/2007 08:47:49

An English voice. Your comments are getting beyond comment and grossly inciteful. Please p155 off.

242

Scotsman in Dublin,

03/11/2007 08:48:11

It's bizzarre that people can find something to complain about this. Supporting independence should be nothing to do with this, its completely amiss that Scotland doesnt celebrate its national day. Whether the argument for the union is won or lost Scotland needs to be able to celebrate its own identity, this has always been suppressed because unionism is afraid of it. The labour party and others are in danger of looking anti Scottish by moaning about this and everything positive that the goverment do.

"Jackie Baillie, the Labour MSP for Dumbarton, said the government should not be telling people how to celebrate St Andrew's Day. "Anyone who has seen the success Ireland has had with St Patrick's Day would want that same celebration for St Andrew's Day," she said."
--How stupid is this guy? St Pats day is a public holiday in Ireland, part of the reason it is such a success. The Irish goverment spend a huge amount of money on Pats day celebrations and a huge amount of tourists come into the country for this reason. Are the Irish goverment telling people how to celebrate Pats day?

243

Montrose,

Angus 03/11/2007 08:55:16

George Foulkes says St Andrews day and the saltire belong to all Scots then why did the Labour party deny us this day as a public holiday? Why is the saltire being removed from county buildings in Angus where the Deputy Provost is a Labour man?
The so called Scottish Labour Party would rather we celebrate British Day and fly the Butchers Apron.
They just do not want to face facts,there union is about to break up like an old ship run aground.

244

pone300,

03/11/2007 09:01:19

Celebrating our nationhood is akin to Nazism? - Unionists, if that's your best argument you don't have one.

245

The true Seeker of the Truth,

at the kitchen table... 03/11/2007 09:01:34

254; a post from an endangered species.

Who were the last lot to, as you say; 'decide, without parliamentary consultation, to spend hard earned tax payers money directing how we then go about celebrating OUR own identity...'?

That would be lab/lib-dems last year would it not? What is the point of the liberals? None at all, I fear...

246

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 09:06:17

#263 Pone 360

You are the kind of slightly below average person that this flag waving is aimed at.

Please read the post again, it is not being compared to Nazism per se. But it is obvious that Alex Salmond is becoming more like RObert Mugabe by the day. Either that or embarassing himself with such cringeworthy populist garbage that cheapens Scotland.

247

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 03/11/2007 09:06:53

I thought Jackie Baillie was a SHE???

And Foulkes an auld blawbag.

248

Roy,

03/11/2007 09:10:55

Lord Foulkes is the Unscotsman's ever-reliable rentagob.

249

Montrose,

Angus 03/11/2007 09:13:16

Tweedmouth or is it fowlmouth wrote "There seems to be very little difference between the SNP and the BNP "
Well one is for the Union with knuckle draggers as members who can be likened with Adolf Hitler.The other is anti Union who do not want to be associated with knuckle draggers. The SNP have Asian Councillors and an Asian MSP. How many Asians are members of the BNP?
The fact is Tweedmouth we are two different countries like it or lump it. If you are not happy with the thought of an independent Scotland you can always cross the tweed.

250

Media 1,

cape town 03/11/2007 09:24:23

The people of Scotland have NEVER seen this day as a celebration. Its always been a low key day of little importance.

But as usual, Salmond and his dictatorship approach to what he now sees as HIS SCOTLAND, will do his upmost to instil his values on all the rest of Scotland, regardless of your view points and beliefs.

Once Salmond is done with, Scotland will be great again.

251

jockie,

somewhere 03/11/2007 09:35:45

I have never read such a load of tosh from so many for so long for so little

252

Riley Hamish,

Edina 03/11/2007 09:57:59

#270 MEDIA 1

I thank God for the many miles between here and SA.
.and Scotland already IS great again......just don't you spoil it by comin' hame !!!

253

Edward,

03/11/2007 09:58:03

#270 Media 1
Can you try and get a grip on reality!
Scotland has never been encouraged to celebrate St Andrews day, like the Irish celebrate St Patricks day as the government in London has never wanted to encourage any sign of self respect in Scotland for fear of it start to belive in its self! The English are starting to celebrate St Georges day. So why cant we celebrate St Andrews day or do you think we would get above ourselves!
Alex Salmond is not laying any claim what so ever to St Andrews day, he is fulfilling a promise that St Andrews day be celebrated more and is linking it to promoting Scotland - something thats been badly lacking for over 20 years!

254

Montrose,

Angus 03/11/2007 10:04:45

Media 1"Once Salmond is done with, Scotland will be great again"
No it will be back to being North Britain.
I can't see what all the fuss is about. Here in Angus St Andrews day has been a public hiloday for years.
Do you hear us moaning when TV presenters wear red roses on St Georges Day? No of course not.
"But as usual, Salmond and his dictatorship approach to what he now sees as HIS SCOTLAND"
Well at least he lives in HIS SCOTLAND and not in some far off land.

255

watcher4,

East Lothian 03/11/2007 10:06:45

Plenty of money this Government, spend, spend, spend. Nothing worse than forcing politics and religion down peoples throats. I know quite a lot of people who gave them the protest vote and are now regretting it.

256

Queen D,

Glasgow 03/11/2007 10:07:29

I can see absolutely nothing wrong in celebrating our national saints day.Other countries do it so why can't we?
Great idea to get the schools invoved so that they can learn ,not just about St Andrew but a little more about their own country and it's heritage.
Most of the history taught in schools is about everyone BUT Scots.
A big party to cheer up the dreich days of November sounds good to me!

257

BIG EYE,

Paisley 03/11/2007 10:09:36

What an astonishing country we live in!

The First Minister chooses to try and promote Scotland by sensibly trying to join up a number of important days in the Scottish and International calender and before you know it this is another SNP plot!

What is wrong in trying to promote your own country, why is someone criticised for bringing some "joined up thinking" that has the potential to further boost tourism and build some wealth in this country?

This thread is another fine example of what a disjointed nation we have become under the Union.

Alex Salmond is trying to build self respect and confidence in the Scottish Nation and as such deserves our full support....he has mine!

258

The true Seeker of the Truth,

at the kitchen table... 03/11/2007 10:11:25

271; cease spinniing and answer the question I made regarding your 'post' at 254; Who were the last lot to, as you say; 'decide, without parliamentary consultation, to spend hard earned tax payers money directing how we then go about celebrating OUR own identity...'? Like I said; lab/lib-dems sent out flags etc last year. And your point is?

259

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 10:12:54

One England...Many voices

Shut up...It is time we Scot's got a word in edgeways.

260

Jings Crivens,

Paisley 03/11/2007 10:14:11

Does anybody here actually know who ST Andrew was and why he is the patron saint of Scotland??

I bet most politicians don't and are using him as a political football

261

The true Seeker of the Truth,

at the kitchen table... 03/11/2007 10:17:20

Unionists must learn this basic fact; you are finished in Scotland. AS will ensure that this is so...

262

Conan the Librarian™,

03/11/2007 10:20:17

280
There are enough English voices for a choir!
But they are not singing from the same hymnsheet;-)

263

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 10:20:50

#255. Geoff, SA

Victoria Day is a public holiday in Edinburgh, I think?

I seem to remember getting a day off School for it, That was a long time ago, maybe things have changed.

Or will soon...Happy St Andrews Day, when it comes.

264

puskas,

East Kilbride 03/11/2007 10:22:33

No 114 ,

This thread is a good one.. The editorial staff have been asked to delete the multiple postings from person or persons that are obvious.

We should be able to have good debate on a popular subject without a neaderthal who is a discredit to him/herself for the stupid submissions ..

The editorial team will I'm sure delete this poster along with the posts and allow the thread to progress unhindered by an idiot or idiots.

Cheers.

265

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 10:25:46

270

Salmond's government is democratically elected as you should well know.The use of language like Salmond's dictatorship says far more about your shortcomings than it does Salmond.

Salmond will do his upmost to instill his values on all the rest of Scotland?

He is first minister and leader of his party and thats his job, but he cannot instill anything upon the people unless they agree with him at the ballot box.

Your real problem is the people stopped agreeing with you ,and you cannot understand why.The question is ,are they mislead (which is insulting to those people) or are you just incapable of understanding what 1 million Scots clearly do?
I will let those reading this be the judge.They also are governed by the same rule of course. Thats why we have elections and thats why we elected Salmond.If you have trouble understanding that,then you will have not only answered the question,but conclusively in my favour!

If you think the SNP is going away again you really are in for an education.No party ever achieved this level of support and did not become the government at a future date.They may dip again temporarily of course,but thats all it will be.The next surge will break the Unions back and it might simultaneously come from England.

Westminster managed(in part) to resist any claim by Scotland by telling her a pack of lies,and devolving some power,but she has to tell England the same lies of course,and the demand from a country with 85% of the population for independence would never be resisted.Too many heads would roll and one thing English MPs can be relied upon to do is preserve their own gravy trains.

272 They are of different persuasions !

Your comment is the least intellectually sound on this forum!

If you have a contribution then make it by all means.

What do you not agree with?
More importantly why!
Any idiot can criticise or put forward negatives.Lets hear your positive inp

266

Masque,

03/11/2007 10:25:50

I'm not interested in a mythical christian saint's "day". It's a lot of nonsense. The majority of Scots don't bother with their religion so why should anyone else?

Stuff and nonsense!

267

,

03/11/2007 10:27:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
268

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 10:32:17

259 Derrick-interesting facts about Rudyard! As to Victoria-dont be too hard on her-she did have a Scots lover who as you know reputedly called her "Wumin"!! Skandal!

254 Lib for life-good post. Its difficult not to get sucked in to flagwaving thing-potent symbols these pieces of coloured cloth. My political identity, for better or worse, was forged at a ridiculously early age, when as a precocious four year old, I was exposed to all the flag waving stuff in the streets of Belfast. I can tell you it was spellbinding stuff, that all the intellect and all the education in the world can not delete. Whilst i do not for one minute take the extreme view voiced by some that Alex salmonds brand of nationalism is in the same league as Herr Schikkelgrubers, I would bet that many of the kids in the head of article photo will remember that day for life, and may have been converted to the SNP cause at their tender ages.
For better or worse as you will.
The reality is that much of what we discuss here and in life generally is not about being persuaded by considering the merits of reasoned debate, but finding it impossible to escape the conditioning of our childhoods!

269

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 10:36:23

282-True Seeker-in his pen name and in the content of his post,illustrates my point in post 289.

The Crown rests its case!

270

,

03/11/2007 10:40:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1111857, Article id was mapped to record!
271

Walter Ego,

Durness 03/11/2007 10:53:28

Can we have a Council Tax Freeze Day as well?

272

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 10:54:10

Howsit media 1-hope you are well!

273

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 10:54:24

From the "FM goes back on St Andrews day holiday vow" linked to in St Andrews day link box at top of the page...

A Labour spokesman said yesterday: "The SNP ... are going back on their promises as quickly as they can. This is just another example of something they said they would do, but they're backpedalling now they're in power"

One Labour...Many Spokesmen...Not a grain of truth or integrity between them.

274

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 10:56:41

English voices all the lot of them.

275

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 10:56:53

292

True,but we should not dismiss the contribution he makes to the SNP cause.
A few more like him and independence is inevitable.
I cannot think of a better turn off than one of Englands sons volunteers a dosplay of his arrogance,and in so doing achieves the opposite of what he intended(which does not say much for his intellectual capacity of course)

276

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 10:58:56

Or as AM2 might protest...Sassenach Snake Voices.

277

Wullie Pullar,

03/11/2007 11:11:03

287. Masque

Far from being a myth, St Andrew's existence as a real, flesh and blood person is widely accepted and well documented.

"The majority of Scots don't bother with their religion"

Correct, but 2.1 billion people in the world do. Why not have national symbol that they can relate to?

I know exactly what you're trying to say, but like all the new breed of uber-atheists you are so full of spite you can't think straight

278

Not A Unionist or Nationalist ©,

03/11/2007 11:11:03

I don't mind us celebrating St Andrew's Day.

I do have a problem with politicians (of all colours) hijacking it for their own narrow sectarian reasons.

My own view is that any celebrations should be done to involve the people not to provide a political platform for speeches.

I want to enjoy and celebrate Scottish culture not be bored by some politicians.

279

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 11:11:26

284 Colonel Blimp-and a happy St.Andys day to you too when it comes along! Victoria Day is still a Holiday in Canada believe it or not! Whilst we still have a statue of Victoria(God bless her) in our City Square, our previously named Victoria embankment has been renamed after a liberation strugglist!
The old order fadeth..

280

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 11:12:41

Do I wish someone a Merry St Andrew's Day or a Happy St Andrew's day?

Has hallmark made a card and have the heavyweights at SNP important policy analysis devised a tasty chocolate snack for children?

281

Not A Unionist or Nationalist ©,

03/11/2007 11:13:05

#300 It's not just Salmond who does it in the SNP -if there's a photo opportunity in Dundee you can guarantee that Shona Robison will be there.

She's the sort of politician who would turn up to the opening of an envelope . . .

282

The Grandson of Winged Messenger,

03/11/2007 11:13:51

All my fellow Nats out there: if you really want to spice things up, buy your very own Saltire and get your other half to do a naughty dance to the sound of "Flower of Scotland"! But don't drown to much of the amber nectar, as you may turn into another Charlie Boy - doubt he's usually up to much! Oh flower of Scotland, it's time!

283

Linda,

03/11/2007 11:15:44

In no other country in the world would there be a cringe about flying their national flag on public buildings. It is not an SNP flag but an ancient symbol of Scotland the nation.

The fact that some "British unionist" councils (Angus) and previously some Labour councils took down saltires shows their lack of confidence.

To be a true internationalist you must first understand and have some pride in your own nation while respecting others.

284

Mandela,

Joburg 03/11/2007 11:16:52

Why does Scotland have two flags ?

285

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 11:18:50

300 EV

It wasn't me above impersonating you. If you read the post yesterday it was me who sussed how someone impersonated the Spook in Leith, reported the comment and posted the details of how it was done. If I was impersonating you I wouldn't have posted the details, would I?

You are sad enough as you are, with your opposition to St Andrew's day being marked in school and your vile Islamophobia without dilution by fakies.

286

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 11:19:43

298

There may be some truth in what you say,but a balance between the right to express a viewpoint has also to be found.Where we strike that balance is the question!
I would be most reluctant to refuse anyone a voice on any forum,because I recognise that the more opinions I have available the better informed I should be (and if I'm not it can only be my fault).That does not mean that I will not have a go at him/her of course. They will also have a go at me. Fair enough.Thats called freedom of expression.
Should we celebrate St Andrews day?.Its very much for the individual to decide whether he participates or whether he watches TV etc.Personally I would welcome any boost to tourism it might generate and if the world wants to come here and watch us parading up and down Princes Street in a Tartan Day type celebration,then I can hear a few hoteliers and the like rubbing their hands now.Freedom of choice should prevail here.It shall presumably anyway!

287

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 11:22:01

#300...

You Already said that at #1

Sobered up?

288

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 11:23:12

306 Linda-I would have no prob about flying the Saltire but in my case it would be next to the Union Jack. In theorythat should satisfy most of the people but in the paraphrased words of(Lincoln,Roosevelt?-I forget) "You can please some of the people some of the Time...etc"

289

Logie Almond,

03/11/2007 11:26:41

What a grotesque sight to see fat Alex mouthing the words of Scotland the Brave with these schoolkids.

290

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 11:28:51

307 Mandela-Sawubona Madiba!

Actually Scotland has a few flags-the St Andrews Saltire(type) Flag(There are other saltire flags) the Union Jack(yes and you CAN call it the UJ on land) which flag is actually a Royal Flag,the Lion rampant-the old scottish royal flag,the Scottish royal standard with the Lion rampant in the 1st and fourth quarters, not to mention the Scottish version of the Union.!

291

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 11:29:44

312 Logie-:-)

292

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 11:31:03

307

The Saltire is Scotland's flag .IE a silver cross on a sky blue background was adopted after the Battle of Athelstaneford by the victorious Picts who saw it as an omen of success.
There are other contenders of course but this one seems the more likely explanation to me anyway.

Silver is not used in heraldry apparently for some reason , so white was adopted,and the blue became darker (but why I have no idea).I also dont pretend to understand what I just said! Im just repeating what was said to me.

The Lion Rampant is the standard of our Royal household as far as I know (Red Lion on Golden background)and probably adorned the shield of the king etc.

However I m sure somebody more learned than me will correct this in fine detail.Until then I hope this helps.

293

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 11:35:12

303 Andy- A truly Joyous St. Andrews day. The snack will be sugar coated chocolate beans called "Andys"

294

Transparent?,

Scotland 03/11/2007 11:36:52

Ok, "An English Voice ...", so now we know you are a member of the SNP. At least that makes sense of your drivel!

295

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 11:39:16

315 Morris-Hi Morris-your info is all correct.The darker blue may have come from the influence of the royal navy on the basis that the dark colour is basically more fade resistant. Not the first time such mundane considerations have influenced flag colours-the old Rhodesian colours green and white were chosen partly for their excellent resistance to the harsh African sun.

296

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 11:42:27

Sorry, Morris-one other point-was there not also some story about St.Andrew feeling himself not worthy of being crucified on a cross the same shape as that of Jesus?

297

blarney expat observer,

03/11/2007 11:46:27

305 Grandson

All my fellow Nats out there: if you really want to spice things up, buy your very own Saltire and get your other half to do a naughty dance to the sound of "Flower of Scotland"! But don't drown to much of the amber nectar, as you may turn into another Charlie Boy - doubt he's usually up to much! Oh flower of Scotland, it's time!

I think we know rather more about you than we want to now, don't you! Wouldn't the funeral dirge which you seem to enjoy so much wreck the mood, or am I missing something here? (On second thoughts, don't answer that one!)

298

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 11:47:14

311

Geoff

There will be few people in Scotland who have advocated independence as often and as long as I have,but even I would recognise that as long as Scotland's people have neither been asked nor declared in absolute certainty what their desire for Independence is,then no one can object to both flags flying side by side.WE are both the ancient nation of Scotland (well Alba actually)and part of the United Kingdom .Until Independence the Union Jack/Butchers Apron has every right to be flown.
I don't like what it represents,but I recognise it has a right to be flown in that it represents people who hold views other than those I hold,and the nation that I want to see Scotland become, will always allow freedom of expression of views,even though we disagree with the content and debate vigorously against it.

There is a clear difference between favouring one flag over the other and refusing one the right to be flown. After Independence it changes of course.The Union flag has no legitimate place in Scotland,but then it presumably has no legitimacy in England Wales and Northern Ireland either? The Saltire has to come out for a start !

299

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 11:50:24

I find the printed hat, which offers outstanding value at £1.25 the most tasteful of the lot.

I must admit to having been sceptical before seeing the printed hat.

http://www.partydelights.co.uk/seasonal/st_andrews_day.as...

I find this hat a wonderful metaphor for the good taste of teh SNP.

300

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 11:52:02

319

I have heard this version also .I have little regard for the teachings of any religion so I tend to ignore it,but there is no doubt that this is a genuine contender as you rightly point out.

Fair comment.

I prefer the Pictish punch up version but that does not mean I am correct of course.I'm not quite old enough to have been there ,contrary to what some people would have you believe!

301

The Grandson of Winged Messenger,

03/11/2007 11:52:16

320 blarney: don't insult our national anthem, even if you do purport to be Irish (or whatever your confusing moniker is supposed to imply!) How would you like it if I started making cliched and stereotypical jibes about "the little people" and how you're all too fond of the Guiness! You have been warned: if there's one thing I won't put up with, it's insults to the National Anthem!

302

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 11:53:28

Sod it, put me down for a couple flags and a helium Scotland balloon as well. St Andrew's day only comes once a year after all.

303

,

03/11/2007 11:56:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1112027, Article id was mapped to record!
304

blarney expat observer,

03/11/2007 11:56:41

324 Grandson: "national anthem"? It was a much ridiculed rugby anthem which somehow caught on - you are sad, aren't you? And please don't reply to this post - we've all heard about enough about you to last a life time!

305

Not A Unionist or Nationalist ©,

03/11/2007 11:57:31

#324 Actually I know some nationalists who don't like "Flower of Scotland" that much - not from political reasons but musical reasons.

306

celticsnowdrop,

03/11/2007 11:58:42

The union of the flags says it all and I love being a scot and try to keep the traditions of scotland alive for future generation. I voice my opinions as it is the right given to all by the people who fought the war and I vote at every election with pride not for the politicians but for the women who fought for my rights before I was born.......grow up people, others fought for freedom of speech but would hang their heads in shame for the amount of dribble we are reading today and wonder what it was all about........Scotland like the rest of Britain has rights.......use those rights wisely

307

An English vo¡ce...,

03/11/2007 11:59:49

To everyone else, please check the dots after the moniker - the SNP cyber drones are using an ellipsis (Alt 0183), not three dots - if you copy the dots the cyber drones is one symbol, mine is three separate dots

308

The Grandson of Winged Messenger,

03/11/2007 12:00:01

328 Not etc: you are nothing short of a fence sitting philistine!

309

Phil C,

03/11/2007 12:00:12

These are excellent ideas for those who dream of a strong independent country, and by association those who seek to belittle our country. The great history is there and a great future might yet become a reality. We need to strengthen our Scottish identity in the face of continued apathy from the watered down, 'can't be bothered doing anything', unionist inclined 'Scots'. Whether these sleepyheads will ever wake up remains to be seen though! It's the tough job of the rest of us to try to shake them into some kind of action, some kind of positive nationalism.

The real McCoy Scots love having fun and taking pride in our national identity. Even if waving the flags, maybe even singing the songs, is a bit cringeworthy sometimes, the more passion, the more emotion, the better.

Oh and why do they keep dragging out that long-discredited eejit Fatty Foulkes. He would pour cold water on anything worth doing.

310

The Grandson of Winged Messenger,

03/11/2007 12:00:54

330 EV: you really are up yourself, aren't you!

311

An English vo¡ce...,

03/11/2007 12:03:09

332. Well, at least those of us who have some patriotism know enough that embracing terrorist friendly policies and grabbing at any scrap of support, even radical Islamist support like the SNP is oding, will not leave much of a national identity. Only a strong, united Britain can stand up to the threat of Islam.

312

,

03/11/2007 12:04:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1112047, Article id was mapped to record!
313

Gervas,

Andorra 03/11/2007 12:04:15

The reason Scots traditionally do not make a big thing of St. Andrew's day is due to Presbyterian suspicion of the veneration of saints (they misunderstand this practice and confuse it with idolatory). I think we can now put that behind us as a people and make it a bigger party than St. Patrick's!

Whey not celebrate the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain on November the 1st as well?

314

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 12:05:19

326. An English vo¡ce...

Get your self one of Andy's hats, some of Blarney's Guinness and have a wee sing-song.

Why not take some of galactic Cannibal's 'shrooms.

And have a Happy St Andrew's Day

Dude!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfN25v4zwQY

315

Phil C,

03/11/2007 12:05:48

#333 Grandson

He's so far up himself, you can only see the soles of his shoes! (Based on some film with John Geilgud, I think)

316

Broomagebairn,

Falkirk via Kazakhstan 03/11/2007 12:06:43

somebody throw a blanket over that Pr*ck"an English voice", obviously his wife was out of the house for a while this morning !
While we're at it throw one over wee puddin' face. It must be dangerous for wee Ecky troot at this time of year, with a heed like his folk must be forever tryin tae shone a candle in ees gub

317

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 12:08:15

306

Wise words dear Well said!

Hugh McDiarmid (Christopher Grieve) once said and I quote" Without nationalism,you have nothing to be international with"
This was in response to a televised question from a young journalist,who asked How can you be a self declared communist and internationalist,whilst supporting Scottish nationalism.Surely the two are incompatible.

His answer was so simple but it destroyed that young reporter,and you could see his red face on a monochrome screen!

An even better one was Oliver Brown who manged to secure less than 0.1% of the votes cast.When asked what he thought of the result,he declared that he was well satisfied with it. The reporter asked him
How?

You hardly got any votes at all!
Yes replied Oliver, but I aimed my campaign at the intelligentsia and it would appear that I have their unanimous support!

318

Not A Unionist or Nationalist ©,

03/11/2007 12:08:43

#331

Did I say I didn't like it? I said that I knew nats who didn't particularly like it but for musical reasons - I didn't say I did not like it myself.

When it is sung properly it can be extremely uplifting - when sung badly it can be goddamn awful.

319

FreeAethist,

03/11/2007 12:08:48

Funny thing isn't it... Just think, how shocking (NOT).. a Nationlist Party (our SNP), being attached to our symbols of nationhood... er.. Flower of Scotland, as opposed to that other thing God Save (whoever). For once, lets celebrate! None of the other buggers ever had the you know whatsits to stand up to Westminster! While we are at it, lets remember the Bruce and Wallace.

320

,

03/11/2007 12:11:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1112069, Article id was mapped to record!
321

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 12:12:59

NaUoaN-Ok you fence sitting Philistine.331 says you cant be there-you HAVE to be a NAT or a UNIONIST. You're making the debate untidy-the Thought police are watching you Buster!

322

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 12:15:01

And of course, you'll have to change your name-how about Now a Unionist or a Nationalist? That way you get to keep your initials!

323

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 12:16:56

343 GH

No, 100% Scottish me. Well, ancestors came over from France in the 15th Century. So missed Wallace by a couple centuries - does that count or should I f*ck off back to France.

Well ... until you and your Union make us the same country of Euroland and you sell out Scottishness in the Union into being little more than Northern Euroland.

324

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 12:17:06

#336. Gervas, Andorra

I'm sure that I am not alone in my ignorance of the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain.

Was it anything do do with King Alfred burning the cakes? Or The Germans pinching King Canute's deck chair?

Our Knowledge of what went on during the dark ages is sadly limited.

I wonder why that is?

325

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 12:18:13

Just heard a lovely one from the weatherman on CNN"Even though this Hurricane is no longer a Hurricane.."??!?
(Relevance?-soory Mr. moderator)

326

Phil C,

03/11/2007 12:18:30

#341 NUN

Lots of people don't like Flower of Scotland...so what? This is typical unionist trivia and diversion from the point. We don't all have to like the same things, but we do need to unite in the same spirit.

Being 'not this' or 'not that' is not particularly helpful. Though I think your loyalties are as clear as our fine mountain water! I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are undecided. Once people like you can make your minds up, we might get somewhere.

327

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 12:19:05

Actually now I think about it, my parents are both English, 3 Grandparents Scottish, one Australian.

I think that qualifies as too much mixing of the gene pool to be Scottish as the SNP would like.

My eyes are not set too close together under a sunken brow with hairy knuckles dragging the floor screaming about how I want to punch an Englishman for Bannockburn.

328

qche,

Caracas 03/11/2007 12:20:41

Your Alex minister he is not only a great first minister but he is a fun person too! A carnival for two months! Yay!

I'm coming to Scotland for Hogmany to enjoy things in great Scotland.

You know 'e is like the headmaster of my old school. Educated, responsible and defending the interests of the schoolchildren and the school.

You are very lucky to have an imaginative statesman in charge of your great country.

329

Maggie,

South Dakota USA 03/11/2007 12:23:59

I for one will be waiving my wee Scottish flag any chance I get, one in my car and one on my Harley D,
we Scots are loved all over, not so the English
any English remarks just exuse them, so full of jealousy to see Us Scots a Nation again FREEDOM.

330

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 12:25:34

#350. Andy Dufresne

well you wouldn't

You being English and all, old bean.

That would be unpatriotic

331

getinnnn,

Scotland 03/11/2007 12:25:50

Let's shift the bonfire night to St.Andrew's day and put the British Parlaiment on top of it!....or George Foulkes......Our Patron Saint's Day was too much ignored by Unionist Governments....maybe because it is a day for Our Scottish Nation which they want to destroy.

332

Generalissimo Hernandez,

03/11/2007 12:26:33

If you're Scottish now, how can any change in the future going to change that?

If Scotland was subsumed in a country called "Euroland", as you put it, I'd would still be Scottish.

333

Phil C,

03/11/2007 12:27:10

#350 Andy

Great news!!!! You don't need any Scottish blood to feel Scottish.

I know lots of people from other countries who live here and they feel feel Scottish. Some are even Nationalists. If your impression is of knuckle dragging, hairy things then more fool you and you are exactly what we don't need here.

334

beech hedge,

Blairgowrie 03/11/2007 12:28:57

I've read all the unionist junk that has been written about this article and surely it must be obvious to anybody that to promote Scotland (as Alex Salmond does)must be good,anybody who does'nt support us would be better of leaving and joining thier pals south of the border.By the way I have plenty of friends in the south (england) but that does'nt prevent me from being a Scottish Nationalist nor them from being English Nationalists.

335

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 12:29:31

355

Glad to here it.

We can still be Scottish in the United Kingdom then and by your own admission the SNP are just trumped up partitionists with all this hoo-ha.

Having some bally-hoo with tasteless plastic crap is not representitive of the Scotland the majority want to see.

336

Queen D,

Glasgow 03/11/2007 12:31:06

What's it got do with an English man anyway?Particularly one who insists on bringing any topic round to racism?( of which I am singularly fed up)
I love seeing our flag flutter in the breeze/gale
I think as a symbol of national identity it is perfect.
There are countries all over the world whose national pride is embodied in their flag,why not Scotland?
As I said before St Andrews day celebrations will brighten up an otherwise dreich time of year and to the business man who would like a May holiday changed to November rather than an extra holiday,I'm in the same position.The cost of wages has to be found somewhere.
Fly our flag and be proud say I!

337

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 12:31:10

#350

You being French

You may be interested to learn that St Joan heard voices in her head, English ones.

They were yelling - "Burn the Witch".

Sound familiar eh?

338

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 12:31:51

74 "English Voice" Idiot - the post you link to is me exposing Meth's plan to steal monikers. Idiot - if I had a "secret plan" do you think I would have debunked it, posted the details and got rid of the fakie Spook in Leith. Idiot. And do you think I copied my own moniker further down the thread. Idiot. I like your use of Idiot all the time, by the way, Idiot. I like your posts - they are xenophobic, anti-Scottish and bilious - a perfect advert for alot of unionist contributions. Idiot.

Idiot.

339

Phil C,

03/11/2007 12:32:38

#359 Andy

You don't get it, do you. Shame really.

340

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 12:33:07

346 Andre du Fresny-vous et Francais! Buggeray off en votre pays d'origin. Dans l"Ecosse nous permitez les natives seulement! Vive le Salmond!

341

Phil C,

03/11/2007 12:34:22

#362 Ayrshire Scot

Do you really thing EV is an idiot??!!

342

Generalissimo Hernandez,

03/11/2007 12:35:29

Andy

I think you'll find we still are Scottish in the United Kingdom.

That's no reason not to celebrate our differences as well as our similarities.

Althought I feel Scottish, European and to a lesser extent British, I don't want to see one homogenous mass.

343

Phil C,

03/11/2007 12:35:37

#364 Goeff

The guy's about as French as Yorkshire pudding or boiled faggots!

344

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 12:35:42

350 Andy-that makes u Auscoglish then?

345

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 12:38:01

369 Idiot.

The actual person who was impersonating you admitted it on yesterday's thread, later on. It was me who pointed it out. Idiot.

346

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 12:38:17

369


PS.....

........

Idiot

347

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 12:38:50

Hi Phil. :)

348

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 12:39:26

369 Idiot

I liked your post on Islamists putting pooh in our food - you really are a vile. low life racist idiot.


PS.....

,,,,,,,,

Idiot

349

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 12:42:10

373 Ayrshire

It was the SNP voters working at world famous Scottish brand name McDonalds putting pooh in our food.

http://www.collectorsconnection.org/library/Pooh25thAnn.jpg

350

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 12:42:20

362. Ayrshire Scot™

How many of the Blighters are there?

I counted five clearly(to the trained eye) different ones.

But some that appeared identical, were clearly different and some were just being duplicitous.

Is that clear?

Or is it just one schizo?

351

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 12:42:35

More enlightened commentary from the real English Voice

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1746432007#comme...

Idiot

352

An English Voice™,

03/11/2007 12:42:43

370. No, I'm the REAL Ayrshire Scot!

353

morris,

Edinburgh 03/11/2007 12:42:49

341

I am both Nationalist and semi pro musician (well I was anyway),I have even been known to sing, although that in itself is a matter of opinion ! My case comes upon Monday.Murdering songs in the first degree ie.

I personally love the song,having once detested it.
Most SNP members prefer SCOTS WHA HAE,and thats their choice of course.However as one who stood at Murrayfield and refused to sing GOD SAVE etc and insisted upon singing Flower of Scotland instead (and look what happened) it has now been adopted by the people and that is conclusive I would say.You can debate the song for ever.The people have spoken and I cannot see it being changed now.I did once meet the late Roy Williamson who is the author of the song, but I also heard that a certain gent called George Weir from Peebles was involved.Whether that has any truth is irrelevant of course.

Much as I love the melody of Highland Cathedral,its not on .Does it have lyrics anyway ?
Ive only heard a pipe tune.
Any answer welcomed here.

It does have one obvious disadvantage however. It has one note (Flower ie) which bagpipes cannot paly and Im sure you have all noticed it !
Otherwise its fine.

354

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 12:44:36

375 Col B

the worrying thing is that it is hard, apart from the punctuation, to tell the racist, bigoted xenophobic idiot English Voice from his imposters - his real posts, such as the one about Muslims putting pooh in our food and his now deleted one about "burning" certain types of people are pretty similar to the invented one's of his impersonators. He is an idiot

355

FreeAethist,

03/11/2007 12:45:43

#378 Personally, I love Scots Wha Hae but for most people it is a bit grim.... Flower of Scotland is a little more uplifting. Cheers

356

getinnnn,

Scotland 03/11/2007 12:45:55

The Unionist bigots have been the real "separatists" for 400 years: They allways have tried to separate Us from all feelings of Nationhood and are constantly ramming U.K down Our throat and falsely calling the "U.K" Our Nation: But We are still here and We are Growing: My nation is Scotland!

357

An Engl¡sh Voice™,

03/11/2007 12:47:15

370. The real Arsehire Scot

358

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 12:51:43

383 EV

idiot. The actual person who is impersonating you admits on yesterday's thread, after I pointed it out. How I wish I hadn't now, I must have forgotten just how asinine and vile you really are.

So denying writing the posts about Muslims putting pooh in our food, just as you denied writing the post that got deleted about Muslims?

idiot.

359

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 12:52:56

382 - Strange, that is the same moniker that popped up when you were getting impersonated yesterday. What a classy debater and intellect you are.

Idiot

360

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 12:54:25

386

Idiot

361

Lynda the Lass,

Too Far Away 03/11/2007 12:58:23

#306

Good observation! What's wrong with showing a bit of pride and a feeling of identity with our heritage?

#303

Odd enough, Hallmark doesn't have a St. Andrew's Day card. Yet. They've got one for just about everything else so it's just a matter of time.

362

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 12:59:56

Serious point. How is it possible to fake an identity on this post(bear with me-computerly challenged) I thought they only allowed a name linked to an email address once? Like the graffiti all over our city walls-even here in darkest africa-it spoils the neighbourhood. Banter apart,these modern techno forums are interesting and valuable debating arenas. This endless imposterism spoils and confuses the thread. Maybe the Moderator needs to include in his list of rules the stip that anyone caught hijacking an identity would be banned from the blog?

363

morris,

Edinburgh 03/11/2007 13:01:00

380

My thoughts also,

Slainthe Mhath!

364

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 13:02:39

389 English Voice

the second link goes to the thread where several of your more violent, intemperate, sociopathic posts were also deleted.

Sad to see a "man" reduced to threats of violence against those with whom he disagrees politically. Smacks of fascism, as do the rest of your mephitic, miasmal slimey posts.

idiot

365

wayne bijlyeerheid,

Traitor's Gate 03/11/2007 13:03:29

english voice is well named, coming across exactly like an english voice.
Whiningly arrogant and as annoying as fingernails scraping a blackboard.

366

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 13:04:40

EV - do you remember writing this
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1734112007#c...

Or are you going to deny using threats of violence as well as denying writing the anti-Islamic posts as well?

Idiot

367

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 13:05:52

394 Wayne

beware, if you disagree with him he gets threatening and violent, or starts posting vile racist anti-Islamic drivel.

More to be pitied than scorned. Or scorned and pitied. Or laughed at.

He is an idiot.

368

morris,

Edinburgh 03/11/2007 13:06:10

390

You can open as many email accounts as you like.You can therefore have as many identities as you like.Try it and you will see just how easy it is. I operate numerous e mail addresses but its so I have increased storage for free.ie I post things I don't want to lose to myself!

People who talk to themselves are probably off their trolley but they could just be computer literate I suppose.

369

westview,

Up the pole 03/11/2007 13:07:47

Talking about flags, why do we tolerate the English flag having prominence on the UK navy flag poles. The red cross of St George covers most of the flag with some token gesture of a tiny union symbol in the corner. If itis a british navy and not an english navy then fly the proper flag. The St Andrews flag will look good on our navy soon.

370

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 13:08:54

397 - English Voice - are you going to deny writing the violent posts at 560 etc on this thread as well?
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1734112007#c...

You are clearly a delusional, violent socio-pathic loner, possibly an alcoholic with diseases which cause extreme body odour. And an idiot. I note you are not gentlemanly enough to retract the accusation that I was faking you, even though the real faker admits it on the otehr thread and it was me that points it out and how it was done. I wouldn't touch you with a ten foot pole, let alone impersonate you.

371

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 13:12:04

#394. wayne bijlyeerheid, Traitor's Gate

We could make Nov3... English Voice Day!

Any suggestions on how we might celebrate it?

372

An English Voice™,

03/11/2007 13:15:12

Toodle pip then 'English Voice...'

The sooner we banish all the English from this site, the better. Maybe the hootsman will start supporting independence too!

373

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 13:16:25

400

St Andrew's flag is on the Russian Navy ships.

Must we constantly have the parochial Scot spouting forth in invented conspiracies? There is a world beyond estate cornershop where you buy your instant foods high in carcenagens.

Just you run along and buy yourself a printed hat and a 6 pack of super and leave uniquely identifying ships to the grown ups.

374

Phil C,

03/11/2007 13:16:46

#402 Good idea, but it looks like we may have to change the name of this new day quite quickly! See #403.

375

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 13:17:05

403 EV

I note you don't deny being the author of sveral posts on the SNP poll thread which threaned other posters with violence - because it was you and we all saw your spectaular melt down and childish tantrum. Do you not think threatening violence over a political disagreement is fascism?

And I note you still do not apologise for accusing me of being your faker. Apart from the delusions of grandeur and self-importance you entertain in thinking I would bother whne your real posts are laughable anyway, why did I point it out and how it was done.

You sir are a deranged, self-obsessed pompous, violemt, loon with personality disorders that have sped past borderline. And an idiot.

376

morris,

Edinburgh 03/11/2007 13:23:38

400
have a look at this !

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:UK-Navy-OF7-Flag.svg

What this mean exactly I am not sure .

377

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 13:27:55

On the other hand, maybe Merry St Andrews day, with all that flag waving and printed hats and the inevitable joker who turns up in the Tam O Shanter hat would be a good thing for the SNP voter.

It is clear they have a hateful negative outlook on life.

My suggestion is we support them in there aims and maybe, just maybe, we can revisit them in a few years when they are feeling better about themselves and see if silly flag waving has had an improvement on the crime and impoverishment they create with their current negativity.

378

Phil C,

03/11/2007 13:28:21

#402 Col

I think we could be a bit naughty on this new day. Just once a year mind. We could spend time on English websites & blogs spreading the word about the miserable Scots bleeding England dry by claiming all those benefits and not paying tax and being ant-English and taking over Westminster and don't forget to tell them the oil's dried up and........

Maybe this will stir a bit of passion into them for English Nationalism and stir them from their arrogant unionist apathy.

We might get a result!!

379

Not A Unionist or Nationalist ©,

03/11/2007 13:33:55

#378 I can detest and love it - depends as you say on who's singing or who's murdering it!!

Like "Scots Wha Hae" too - an oft quoted alternative to FoS.

380

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 13:35:51

#403. An English voice...

I had an English voice too, or so my school friends thought, when I returned after spending a few of my formative years in your green and pleasant land.

I too, exchanged it for one of my own and have never looked back.

381

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 13:38:05

410 Phil C

excellent idea. Where shall we all pop of to for a bit - the Telegraph, the Mail? Where did that cowardly cut English Voice congeal from? And where has he gone? You would think a stiff upper lipped chap like he would apologise for saying I was his faker (eh, Col B?) and perhaps apologise for his profuse threats of violence the other day. You can imagine my sorrow and regret watching the poor soul having his wee cyber break down tantrum. Idiot

382

E. Smith,

Texas 03/11/2007 13:38:07

Correct me if I'm wrong, but posters are fighting over whether to celebrate a winter festival centered around an "imported" saint foisted upon medieval Scots by Norman overlords who were trying to urge St. Andrew's veneration as a Roman Catholic foil to the Celtic Christian rites that the population favored.

Since that time, John Knox's Protestant Reformation established a Presbyterian state church which very few Scots attend with any regularity. St. Andrew incidentally spends his winters in Greece--a more appropriate place for a "winter" festival or better yet New Zealand or Australia on November 30th.

And no, Texas isn't preparing to leave the Union, but we can (if we so wish) divide ourselves into five states.

383

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 13:40:03

414 I think it is national day rather than a religious festival that is intended

384

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 13:41:16

410

Phil

Many a true word has been said in jest and I suspect you are correct.

When do we start.lets get orgainised chaps!

A will be big shuggie frae Glen Michael.

385

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 13:41:45

#410. Phil C

We could even give our brains a rest on this fine new holiday and just cut and paste the off the shelf vitriol posted by EV... and his chums.

386

kimba,

03/11/2007 13:42:59

410. Just try it pal, your worst nightmare is about to come true,the people of England are about to realise their mistakes,and with 50 million plus,you willnot stand a chance.

387

An Engl¡sh Vo¡ce,

03/11/2007 13:46:32

418. good post, Kimba, keep up the good work

388

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 13:46:46

#413. Ayrshire Scot™

What was the name of that ancient Thracian fellow?

389

An Engl¡sh Vo¡ce,

03/11/2007 13:47:36

To other posters, as the childish SNP cyber drones have stolen my old user name (English Voice...) is shall use this one - please ignore the posts from my impersonators further up this thread

390

Queen D,

Glasgow 03/11/2007 13:51:25

If they would speed up Flower Of Scotland a wee bit it would sound better.
At the pace I have heard it sung at rugby matches it sounds distinctly dirge like!
Try singing it at a jaunty pace and it improves no end!
I whistle it fast all the time and it fair cheers me up!!

391

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 13:53:13

418

Nice work Kimba The snp needs people like you.

392

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 14:00:20

I believe him

That haughty arrogance is difficult to replicate

Believe me, I have tried.

393

K¡mba,

03/11/2007 14:00:33

419 CHEERS ENGLISH VOICE

423 MORRON!

394

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 14:01:10

422

It was written and often played in 3/4(Waltz time)usually and I think thats the problem possibly.I have actually played* it on a keyboard in 4/4 time and its totally different. Whether anybody would like it or not is another matter.

When I say played I use the word ill advisedly.I am a guitarist possibly,but never a keyboard player!Even I know that!
However with autochord I can survive enough to record it using a sequencer and save a perfect copy.Its a poor substitute for talent of course.

395

An Engl¡sh Vo¡ce,

03/11/2007 14:02:47

425. Kimba

Kimba, I fear you have misunderstood me yet again. When I said "good post" I meant good for a brain damaged knuckle-trailing buffoon such as yourself. I certainly did not mean to encourage your mad rantings or signify any agreement with your frankly ludicrous and childish nonsense. My wife and I think you are a disgrace, but an amusing one. We often stop by here just to see what meaningless crap you have posted and have a good laugh at you.

When I said keep up the good work, it was merely a passing acknowledgement of the effort it must take a mor(r)on such as yourself to type at all.

You are a loathsome creature, and I am ashamed to be English because of trailer park, drug addled trash like you.

396

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 14:03:14

425

Ill presume that is a play on MORRIS and you can actually spell it!

397

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 14:03:27

I have slain the mighty An English voice…

I claim his armour as my prize!

398

An Engl¡sh Vo¡ce,

03/11/2007 14:07:18

429

No, it was I who finished off the mighty An English Voice, you merely wounded the beast.

I claim his armour (and his pictures of warships) as my prize

399

SEUMAS,

tAIN 03/11/2007 14:07:57

once again a hootsmon journalist has stirred up a hornet's nest--she must be laughing all the way to the bank when she counts her bonus at the end of the month.
Alec Salmond is the democratically elected first minister of Scotland and it would be indeed curious if he did'nt promote Scotland---as for the inane ramblings of Baron Foulkes and the ex reverend Cairns who has now admitted that Scotland is a viable economy, press on fellow nationilists , they have been rumbled

400

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 14:11:20

429

I am amazed that anybody would want to impersonate him!

He is the last person I would want to be!

Even if I were him,he would STILL be the last person I would want to be.

401

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 14:13:33

400 Westview-the st.Georges type Cross appears on the naval flags of many commonwealth flags too-notably India and Jamaica. One suggestion made by a flag institute member was that the cross should be in blue-combining the flag of st george with the colours of st andrew. The flag of the Royal Fleet Auxillary and RNR is a St.Andrews Blue ensign, so some compensation

402

An English voice…,

03/11/2007 14:13:47

#430. An Engl¡sh Vo¡ce

I bow before your superior punctuation...

403

Geoff,

SA 03/11/2007 14:14:37

What I mean is an ensign with its main colour as St andrews blue.

404

Queen D,

Glasgow 03/11/2007 14:20:27

Andy Dufresne,the only negativity I see is coming from you,the real English voice and some addle brained lunatic with various monikers.
I leave you to decide,but since you are a fairly recent poster you may need some help from those of us who have suffered the extensive,mind blowing drivel for some time,under different guises of course!

405

Not A Unionist or Nationalist ©,

03/11/2007 14:24:32

#431 "ex reverend Cairns"

Why do some SNP posters insist on mentioning that Cairns is an ex-Catholic priest?

Is it actually relevant to the debate?

Or are you showing your own predjudices?

Or playing to the prejudices of others?

406

Not A Unionist or Nationalist ©,

03/11/2007 14:26:07

#428 Just ignore fishy pants Morris.

Yes I know that's an insult but it's kimba so it doesn't count . . . .

407

morris,

Embra 03/11/2007 14:29:43

433
I wonder Geoff .
Could it be that many nations once used their national flag upside down as a distress signal,and we cannot because despite the Irish part of the flag using a thinner line and therefore non centred cross,upside down it makes no appreciable difference ,and maybe this was one possible reason?

I'm grasping at straws of course.

Probably its just typical of attitudes generally.

Who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler ,if you think old ENGLANDS done?

Rule Britannia ,Brittania waves the rules.I suppose we should really be grateful that English nationalism is alive and kicking,even if it is insular and definitely NOT the same as the hand of friendship Scotland proposes under independence.

408

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 14:41:08

436 Queen D

I think you'll find on closer inspection that the negativity resides in another pretendy policy from the SNP.

I can think of nothing more depressing that waving a wee Scottish flag in a wee plastic Scotland hat cold and wet on a street corner during a Scottish winter.

This is the kind of nauseating nationalism hitherto only found on the streets of America.

As usual the SNP want to turn Scotland into Ireland, only there will be no merriment with Guiness ala paddy and murphy. Instead we will have to try not and get stabbed from wee neds who appitimise what it means to be Scottish as they have a half excuse to get bevvied and behave racistly towards to the English.

The SNP do not have a problem with Unions, they want to abolish the Scottish pound note and replace it with the Euro. The SNP have a problem with the English, because daddy told them they did a bad thing in the 14th century.

409

Col.­­­­Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 14:41:31

#429. An English voice…
#430. An Engl¡sh Vo¡ce

Alas poor Voice...I knew him not

410

Pilrig.,

Livingston 03/11/2007 14:45:22

440 - a Tory

411

Pilrig.,

Livingston 03/11/2007 14:47:38

434 - you pair still aroond ? Never mind, I suppose multi-posting beats hinging aroond street corners.

412

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 14:47:41

440 Andy

not sure it is all about flags. Was it not Gordon Bottler Broon who wanted a wee union fkag in every garden anyway?

Col B - which old thracian fellow, there were a few?

413

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 14:48:06

442

I'm no tory. I just hate the fat self assured smugness of the gimp pictured at the top of this thread.

How did the wee fatty manage to grow jowels that big. Snout in the trough.

Roll on the 14th of November. This budget is going to be hilarious.

414

Pilrig.,

Livingston 03/11/2007 14:50:04

There should be a national holiday on the feast day of the holy saint Andrew, oor patron saint.
Only bosses and anti-Scots would argue with that.

415

Pilrig.,

Livingston 03/11/2007 14:50:44

445 Nu Lab then ? same difference.

416

,

03/11/2007 14:50:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1112459, Article id was mapped to record!
417

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 14:51:01

444 Ayrshire Scot

You're right of course. Brown did embarass himself also trying to win a few votes flag waving in plastic beefeater hats.

That too, can be utterly condemned as tacky crap.

My problem is not just the SNP doing it.

We have our Gala days in almost every village. That is real community spirit.

You are right though. Alex Salmond is as cheap, tacky and populist as Broon. Quite pathetic.

418

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 14:51:35

445 Andy prefers the fat self assured smugness of his own gimpiness.

419

GalacticCannibal,

03/11/2007 14:53:32

337. Col. Blimp IV* / 12:05pm 3 Nov 2007

Sir, Dude, Your Lordship, Your Grace , or what every turns you on.

I am protesting over the flagrant use of my Galactic Cannibal name, you used in a demeaning context connected to SHROOMS.

Dude I'll have u know that SHROOMS are wild natural fungi and are not synthetically manufactured like nicotene (cigs-fags) .

SHROOMS do not kill millions of people every year as cigs-fags do.

When cooked in omeletes with onions , red peppers, etc they are delicious.

Another thing I am in the process of having my name Galactic Cannibal copy-righted. Once I have global CR then anyperson miss using my name will be taken to court.

On the bases of cease and desist or pay up.

GC

420

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 15:01:21

451 Cease and desist

421

Phil C,

03/11/2007 15:04:59

#449 AD The wee fatist pig!

Alex Salmond is NOT as cheap, tacky and populist as Broon.

422

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 15:07:45

453 Phil C - have you seen Andy's comments on women - I think he is a misogynistic homosexualist of the worst kind - here is a selection of Andy's views on women:

* It's vanity and women don't want to lost a boob and be less sexual than before.

* Refuse collecting is harder work and dirtier, equality means if lazy f*cking burds want the same cash they have to do the same hard work for it.

* Sadly, this namby pamby pandering to hissy fit burds just means they demand a softer job for the same cash.

* Let's classify being a woman as a disablity, as this article is based more on disability discrimination rather than sex.

* Get more women clearing the rubbish down the sewers, that's equality. (not just the top jobs)

* Buying sex for money is legal.

* BTW Benji, if you are for real you are a moron.

* Today a prostitute got beaten and robbed in a secluded car park where she went freely as part of a criminal act. Big deal.

* Get the women down the sewers, that industry has been male dominated for too long, get them in the fish mongers as well, let's have some real equality.

423

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 15:08:15

453 Phil C

No, your right. Even Broon could hope for no better than silver if Salmond was in the field.

That guy is tackier than Grandparents day. Starting every public speech slaughtering a burns poem, or misquoting Scottish playwrites out of context.

424

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 15:09:09

454 Andy's enlightened views on women can be found on this thread - I post it because of the disconcerting habit of unionists like Andy and EV to attempt to deny their own vile posts when challenged on them:
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=164432200...

425

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 15:09:36

455 Why do you hate women, Andy?

426

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 15:11:58

454 Ayrshire Scot

You do make me laugh. What is sexist about that?

I am disspointed in you. Please do try and keep your cool this time, as I will be reporting any henceforth of your posts promoting the torture of enthic minorities by using them as fossil fuel. We know how you get when you get that red mist falls.

I took no pleasure in reporting your post, seeing you moderated, and your subsequent apology after being skewerd and roasted to your utter discredit.

427

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 03/11/2007 15:13:43

Re the importance of flying the flag. In the same decade that the McCrone report on Scotland's wealth via Oil and Gas was buried, the making of Saltires in Scotland was buried with it.

In the 70's there were no Saltires flying in Edinburgh. I began asking Tartan Gift shops why they weren't flying the Saltire and they said they would love to but couldn't get hold of them.

Hotels, stores and offices said the same, so I bought material from wholesalers and had flags sewn by students at Kirkcaldy Tech. They were immediately seized upon by Edinburgh shops.

Smaller flags were also gobbled up by their hundreds at Murrayfield and Hampden. More commercial guys got in on the act and I was able to concentrate on getting to university.

Point is, there has always been a desire for Scots to fly the flag but for political reasons they were denied this....as they were denied Scottish History in High Schools and only limited Scots History in primary schools. All of which was facilitated by Scottish Labour and Tory politicians I might add.

Bring on St Andrews Day and the Winter Festivities and well done the SNP.

428

Phil C,

03/11/2007 15:14:18

Ayrshire Scot. I admire your patience and tolerance with EV....and this Dufresne chappie does seem a bit wierd. Do you think he should be out by himself?

429

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 15:18:47

459 Brian Hill

Is this what you mean when you say you like to fly flag?

http://www.ageconcernkingston.org/images/Rainbow-flag.jpg

Or do you perhaps mean something else, and it was not meant literally.

430

MandyMac,

Glasgow 03/11/2007 15:19:38

If young people don't know their identity, culture or where they have come from, is that more of an education issue? It is time for the Nationalists to remove their tinted spectacles, stop romanticising Scotland, fix it!

431

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 15:20:17

460 Phil C

you are assuming that Andy Dufresne is out on his own. I think you will find that under a taxpayer funded care in the community scheme he is in fact using a computer under nursing supervision at our expense. I don't begrudge him that.

Did you see his vile comments about women - most distasteful do you not think?

432

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 15:22:21

461 Andy

why are you calling Brian gay just because he made a comment you disagree with? Denial or transference, or both?

Please gather your sadly ebbing faculties together long enough to make a coherent contribution on here, or do the decent thing and have a cyber crying breakdown and tantrum, then go lie down like English Voice (dearly departed and missed) did.

433

Phil C,

03/11/2007 15:23:24

#459 Brian- Well done you!! The unionists are still trying to dampen any nationalist feelings in their grey world. Just look at this thread. These boring little creatures reject any talk of flag waving, colour, festivals, fun, celebration of national identity as tacky and nasty. They just want an early night with a cup of tea. YAWWWWWWN!

434

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 15:25:02

451. GalacticCannibal

I apologise without reservation for taking the name of your revered SHROOMS although in my defence I cite that I used the form "'shrooms".

I wish you every success in any future litigation regarding your copy-righted name, as I do to AMD, Inc. Sunnyvale CA. in theirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM2

435

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 15:28:30

465 Phil

but they are in favour of Morris dancing and jamborees, if they involve illegal wars or dancing round a Trident missile shaped may-pole. A strange bunch.

436

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 15:30:45

465 Phil C

Wearing your heart on your sleeve in public. How does this equate to being Scottish?

Feeling safe on our streets, free education, and small class sizes. This would be a more appropriate celebration of being Scottish.

Touchy feely populism is no substitute for policy. While there are a vibrant community of *vegetarians and theatre-goers* in Scotland. A flag waving day with blue face paints and Tam O Shanter ginger bonnets is not on.

Get it up ye man.

437

Phil C,

03/11/2007 15:32:34

#463 AS - I read the posts. If that's our Andy D, then he's a horrible little creep and shouldn't be out at all, even under strict surveillance. He seems to posess the compassion and understanding of Ghengis Khan and has the penchant for honesty of Blair and Brown!

438

Boudica aga¡n,

03/11/2007 15:34:48

#468 Andy Dufresne / 3:30pm 3 Nov 2007

Andy, very well said. The SNP revel in these obscure priorities, like their law on Tartans, while ignoring pledges on police and class sizes. I enjoyed your post.

439

wattie>x 1,

03/11/2007 15:35:43

Our world wide respected culture and love off our nation never ended at the White Cliffs of Dover.
We lost our dignified nation status by treachery and deceit, but for centuries, refused to accept servility.
During the 19th and 20th Century in particular, our nation produced some of the most remarkable and memorable radicals in Europe. Our native people didn't require such strident , slavish chauvinistic garbage as Pomp an Circumstance and surely the most degrading off all world wide nation anthems - God Save the Queen (or King) which was highly insulting of our own Scottish nation.
Land of Hope and Glory-or Dope and Glory- would be more appropriate today. Where children as young as eight years of age during the great English Victorian era - which the other great English woman Thatcher idolized - used to toil for up to sixteen hours per day in cotton mills, down mines and sent to prison for stealing such a trivial thing as an apple. Recently they discarded the Union Flag used by the Tories as a symbol off English Establishment superiority; but shared it with the fascist BNP and the racist religious bigots off Northern Ireland. They no longer wish to be known as being English and their viicious football hooligans and terrorists are now described as being British, fully supported and backed by Brown's New Labour Party for electoral reasons. They have at last regained their own flag of St George which has been stained for centuries by blood and the plunder of so many Commonwealth countries.
Our own flag was forcibly buried by centuries off oppression and is a true and respectable symbol off the dignity that has been recently regained, and should NEVER, NEVER again be removed from our Globally highly regarded and respected nation.

440

kimba,

03/11/2007 15:37:50

425. NOT me but thanks anyway!

441

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 15:38:04

#470. Boudica aga¡n

What law on tartans?

442

Boudica aga¡n,

03/11/2007 15:39:27

#473 Col. Blimp IV* / 3:38pm 3 Nov 2007

The SNP are supporting some registry of tartans, probably to go with their new school packs and flag waving, while ignoring the small matters of police and schooling.

443

Guga II,

Rockall 03/11/2007 15:40:17

For Foulkesake George, why don't you do us all a favour and fall down a disused mine shaft.

444

Phil C,

03/11/2007 15:45:00

#468 & #470

SNP policy is being seriously curtailed by the unionist majority....for now. Any idiot can see that. Salmond is doing a good job, against the odds. All we need is a continuing growth of natiolism and the Nationalist hopes will be fulfilled. More people like you spreading your poison, just helps the cause.

Believe that this is all about flags and songs if you want. That's just a small but very visible part of it.

445

Boudica aga¡n,

03/11/2007 15:46:32

#476 Phil C / 3:45pm 3 Nov 2007

Andy, you clearly have them rattled. Keep up the good work.

446

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 15:49:39

476 Phil C

Are you a skinhead?

There is a worrying and menacing subtext to your posts.

The Saltire is a proud and quiet symbol that is utterly unoffensive and dignified.

Your repeated demands to takw ownership of this symbol and use it for your menacing seperatism and resentment of other races, specifically the English is not on.

Cheapening the national flag to teh tacky levels of the intolerant partionist is not on.

Get it up ye man.

447

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 15:50:36

#474. Boudica aga¡n

We have waited 50yrs for Labour to do anything about these things.

I'm sure if you bear with the SNP for a week or so you will see some progress.

Similar to this;

http://heritage.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=656&id=13...

448

Montrose,

03/11/2007 15:54:32

More police on the streets and smaller classroom sizes will come. The SNP have been in power(oh I like that IN POWER) for only 6 months. It will take time to repair 300 years of misrule from London and it's lackies.

449

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 15:55:26

479 Col B

I think Boudica is just the Maltese Dodger under another silly moniker.

450

Boudica aga¡n,

03/11/2007 15:57:16

# 478 Andy Dufresne / 3:49pm 3 Nov 2007

"intolerant partionist" - excellent stuff, great line! Sock it to them!

451

Boudica aga¡n,

03/11/2007 15:57:48

#481

you are best ignored.

452

puskas,

East Kilbride 03/11/2007 16:02:07

Why should anyone have a problem with the National Flag of Scotland.

Why should anyone have a problem with celebrating St Andrews day , Patron Saint of Scotland.

Why should anyone Scottish have a problem Flying the Saltire in all areas of Scotland..

No other country has so many quislings ....

I ask all Scots why can any Scot argue against and try to discredit our National emblems.....

453

Phil C,

03/11/2007 16:02:53

#478 Andy Duffer & your wee dog named Bou #477

I might be thinning a bit (well quite a lot really!) but that should be of no concern to you. There is certainly no subtext in my posts. It seems that your mind wanders a bit. And what's this "Get it up ye man" stuff? You seem to be losing the plot. Away and lie down for a bit.

454

puskas,

East Kilbride 03/11/2007 16:05:46

No 480. Montrose.

You make it simple Montrose... Of course the idiots will not understand ...

Education, Education, Education ... Nu-Labour failure..

Generation after generation have been failed by these liars ....

455

Queen D,

Glasgow 03/11/2007 16:17:40

Thanks for the musical information guitar player!

I think Andy Dufresne is typical of those doing down Scotland.
A sense of national identity is not a bad thing and it should be celebrated as other countries do.
THERE REALLY IS NO POLITICAL GAMBIT HERE EXCEPT FOR THOSE MAKING IT SO.
One has to ask why?Are the labour,conservatives and the other lot ,whose name escapes me,not willing to boost national pride and identity?
I sincerely hope they are trying to boost Scotland because that is what they were elected for(by the misguided,but non the less elected for Scotland)

456

Col. Blimp IV*,

03/11/2007 16:18:12

485. Phil C

Thanks a bunch for reminding me of that tripe.

Thank god for Glam-rock and Val Doonigan for that matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK_IJ08_IpM

457

Andy Dufresne,

03/11/2007 16:23:50

Here is a vid of Salmond having a wee sing song with some school kids.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7070000/newsid_70...

Fair play to him, that must have been uncomfortable and he knew he'd look like a penis for doing it. I like all the Saltires he's laid out. Not sure of the purpose, he thinks that flag is his own.

458

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 03/11/2007 16:37:19

Well said Morris 286. Good post.

As for morons like An English voice and Ayrshire Scot, their main mission is to sabotage any decent debate on these boards. They are well aware that a lot of very good information comes out of these posts, information which strengthens the Independence argument in a way which will impress neutrals and give added amo to those arguing for Independence.

The Unionists have no decent counter arguments so they are resorting to sabotaging as many of these threads as possible with trivia. The more serious among us should completely ignore these pin heads, thus limiting the amount of space given over to them.

Were this a newspaper with honest editorial I would expect them to remove most of the trivia but as it rather suits their cause, it will stay, who knows, an English voice may be a collection of Scotsman personnel.

459

,

03/11/2007 16:40:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1112728, Article id was mapped to record!
460

Hamish MacBeth,

Angola 03/11/2007 16:40:48
461

,

03/11/2007 16:47:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1112740, Article id was mapped to record!
462

qche,

caracas 03/11/2007 17:03:11

The racist unionist reactionaries have been given a cold turkey shower from this forum. May they rot in the guts of a dog in the sewer of Lethe.

463

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 03/11/2007 17:05:10

496

My comment worked a treat. And out comes the bigots......you are to be congratulated for your glorious bigotism. Glay va.

BTW come to Barra anytime mate, I'll be standing at the pier waiting for you. You'll recognise me easily as it may be the last you recognise.

464

Ayrshire Scot™,

03/11/2007 17:15:36

495 Dave

I think the point is to celebrate a nat