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SNP's new role for Scotland on world stage

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Published Date: 07 August 2007
PIPE bands parading in New York have become a familiar example of Scotland's presence on the world stage.
But events such as Tartan Week in the United States could be in for a revamp as the Executive launches a wide-ranging review into how Scotland is represented abroad.

The Executive's international strategy is under scrutiny in a shift of direction under the new SNP administration towards higher-profile political and commercial contact.

Scotland's man in Washington, Michael Kellet, is leaving his job in the British embassy and ministers have yet to decide how - or even if - he will be replaced. It is understood staff at Scottish Development International (SDI), the Executive's global inward investment agency, could take on a more wide-ranging role in the US.

Direct political contact with other countries has already been given a higher profile under the new Holyrood regime with the creation of an external affairs role within the Office of the First Minister. Alex Salmond espouses closer links with the likes of Norway, with whom plans are being mooted for a joint energy grid to share the spoils of North Sea oil and gas production. Linda Fabiani, the new minister for Europe and external affairs, has just returned from Brittany where she has been supporting the Lorient Festival of Celtic culture.

But opposition parties fear "SNP globetrotters" are unnecessary as Scotland is represented through embassies and consulates of the UK.

Among the priorities for the SNP is better representation at Europe. Earlier this year, a leaked report from Holyrood's top official in Brussels revealed Scotland's interests were being routinely ignored by Whitehall during negotiations and that Scottish ministers and civil servants were being kept "out of the loop" by London counterparts.

A senior SNP figure said yesterday: "It is quite clear Scotland has been underperforming in Europe, even in the context of devolution. The feedback from officials was that the Welsh Assembly was getting more effective representation at Europe."

He also hinted Scotland could be making more contact with other countries to discuss "policy issues" on social legislation or joint initiatives such as the EU's Northern Periphery Programme - a scheme to improve transport and education in remote areas of Europe such as Scotland's Highlands and Islands.

Although support for Tartan Week is unlikely to be withdrawn, insiders say there could be a greater emphasis on events outside New York in order to maximise news coverage of the event.

Professor Douglas Yuill, director of the European Policies Research Centre at the University of Strathclyde, said: "There is already a lot of contact between Scotland and Europe, including civil servants based in Brussels. Scotland is not unique in this - there are also representatives of the Spanish regions and the German Länder, for example. The EU emphasises the importance of exchanging policy ideas between countries."

In a recent exclusive interview with The Scotsman, Scotland's top civil servant said officials were prepared for a greater emphasis on international relations under the SNP regime. Sir John Elvidge said: "We will continue to have a strong and probably a stronger presence in Brussels. I don't see a barrier to talking to directly to the Commission. We already have a directorate concentrating on international relationships. It would be easy for that directorate to evolve as the scale of our work develops."

Mr Kellet, the highly regarded First Secretary of Scottish Affairs at the British Embassy in Washington, is leaving his post after being promoted within the civil service. Although the Executive wants to be represented in the United States, it is unable to say whether it will have any future presence in the British embassy.

Mr Kellett was unavailable for comment yesterday, but a spokeswoman for the Executive said: "Michael Kellet has over the past two years been very effective in representing the Scottish government in the USA. The Scottish government will continue to be represented in the USA, whose relationship with Scotland remains important."

David McLetchie, Scottish Conservative chief whip, said: "Scotland sits at the top tables in world affairs through being part of the United Kingdom. Historically, the Union has been the platform which has spread the influence of Scotland across the world. We don't need the SNP Globetrotters to do that job for us. Where there is a genuine international dimension to the devolved responsibilities of the Scottish Executive then well and good - otherwise it should be home fixtures only."

• Additional reporting by Peter MacMahon

FUN WITH LITTLE IMPACT IN MANHATTAN


TARTAN Week has always generated more headlines in Scotland than in the United States where it takes place.

The annual event, which celebrates the Declaration of Arbroath, receives £650,000 in funding from the Executive because of its usefulness to VisitScotland and Scottish Development International (SDI) in promoting Scotland to an American audience.

But although kilts and pipe bands in Manhattan create amusement for New Yorkers, it is far from clear whether the event has made any long-term impact on visitor numbers in Scotland.

Ministers are understood to be examining how the event programme can be improved to attract more attention for Scotland in America. .

Official representation of Scotland abroad remains under the control of Westminster and British embassies, although Scotland has its own officials at the British embassy in Washington and in Brussels.

Labour's Holyrood administration was keen to avoid diplomatic clashes with Labour counterparts in Westminster but the SNP is less concerned, as witnessed by last week's insistence that the saltire should be flown from government buildings.

Alex Salmond has already made his intentions clear by meeting four European Commissioners from other countries on his recent visit to Brussels.

Jim Mather will be the first SNP minister to make a public speech in North America when he addresses the charity he founded, the Scotland Funds, in Toronto on 15 October.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 August 2007 11:45 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Tartan Week
 
1

Richardinho,

07/08/2007 00:15:36

It is vital that we take every opportunity to develop commercial and political links with other countrys. Pipes and drums are great, and have their place, but there must also be a place for the hard headed business men in suits.

2

I'm no really here,

07/08/2007 00:20:48

"Historically, the Union has been the platform which has spread the influence of Scotland across the world."

And the result is that when anyone sees the union flag they say it's the English flag. Historically, this "platform" has promoted an image of bagpipes and kilts, and not much else. We need a proper representatives to promote Scotland, and I dare say they will be well received though-out the world, and some countries may be shocked to find out that there is business to be done without going through England.

3

Haggis The Great,

Dunfermline 07/08/2007 00:22:03

David McLetchie, Scottish Conservative chief whip, said: "Scotland sits at the top tables in world affairs through being part of the United Kingdom.

What utter nonesense from the mouth of this Tory Unionist letcher. The comments themselves describe everything that is abhorant about the Unionist cause!

4

CRAGman,

Capital city Edinburgh 07/08/2007 00:28:40

Let's hope we don't end up with Scots pubs everywhere like the Irish bars to be found worldwide. They make you cringe - and you cannae even get a pint of 80 shilling in most of the Scots pubs I've seen abroad.

5

FrancesP,

07/08/2007 00:37:00

I've read this article carefully, and a sense of unease - nay, horror - crept up on me as I neared the end. Surely everyone has spotted the glaring omission that drives a coach and horses through the cardinal rule of Scotsman journalism. Come on, you really can't leave us hanging like this. You must tell us what GEORGE FOULKES has to say on the matter!

6

The Strategist,

07/08/2007 00:37:43

I suspect McLetchie is simply jealous.. After all if any one of the "opposition" parties had won the election they'd have to do as they're told by their bosses at Westminster. Thankfully the SNP don't have that restriction.

7

Royster,

07/08/2007 00:46:06

As a unionist I have no problem with Scotland pushing itself forward on the world stage. However, the Scottish taxpayer will be wholly-picking up the bill for something which is essentially a duplication. Moreover, you have to wonder whether Salmond is going beyond his remit and whether, in theory, all this could be challenged by judicial review or the Audit Office. This reminds me of those left-wing London councils which used to put signs saying 'Welcome to Lambeth, a nuclear free zone' as if Lambeth had anything to do with defence policy.

8

I'm no really here,

07/08/2007 01:12:07

#7 We are already picking up the tab for "being at the top table". Maybe we can use that money to more effect by ourselves, or is that part of the "Scottish Spending" that isn't actually spent in Scotland, like the Scottish Office at Westminster.

I think the 'Welcome to Lambeth, a nuclear free zone' was more to do with their unwillingness to have any nuclear facilities built there, or have any nuclear material stored in, or transported through Lambeth. I don't think that Lambeth intended to unilaterally scrap the nuclear weapons it had built, so the defence of the realm was in good hands.

9

I'm no really here,

07/08/2007 01:25:31

#5 Even worse, they never asked Ian Rankin what he thought!!!

10

Name,

07/08/2007 01:42:46

English oot, Blacks oot, Asians oot. Keep Scotland "Scottish".

You racists and bigots are PATHETIC.

11

I'm no really here,

07/08/2007 01:48:57

#10, there is no call to talk about #7 like that. This is a public forum and he is entitled to his opinion.

12

,

07/08/2007 01:53:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 852162, Article id was mapped to record!
13

Royster,

07/08/2007 01:55:26

#8. I don't think there was any kind of nuclear establishment any where near these places, it was just people on the council spending taxpayers money in areas way outside their remit.

14

Canada,

Canada 07/08/2007 01:58:24

A real nation does not sit at the top table of world affairs as an infant, an underling, seen but not heard, represented, supervised, controlled, by a superior, even benevolent adult. When the nation becomes a mature adult it puts away childish habits and finds its own voice in the world. Welcome to the responsibility of adulthood Scotland. Looking around the UN., what took you so long? Stop being a persistent underling, grow up, stand free, stand tall. Per Diem! Seize the moment!

15

T. MacIntosh,

Toronto 07/08/2007 02:47:49

It's high time Scotland formed it's own international ties and spoke for itself.Pleasant to see most agree here..get rid of the English neck collar.

16

Guga II,

Rockall 07/08/2007 03:05:41

McCletchie and the other unionists are talking garbage. Scotland is not represented. It is usually an afterthought, at best.

Even our "representative" at the English embassy in Washington is only a First Secretary, which is the bottom of the pile as regards senior officers in the diplomatic corps.

The sooner we are independent and can fully represent our own country overseas, the better. The colonial power does not serve us well; it never has, and it never will.

17

W Smith,

Middle East 07/08/2007 03:08:01

Salmond has already 'globetrotted' his way to England to hang out with left-wing anarchist Lyndsey German of Stop The War Coalition.

Salmond has spoken in public at these rallies knowing full well the muslims in the audience are militants not moderates.

So this is how Salmond the great 'economist' promotes Scotland as a place to do business then is it ?

Keeping in mind he welcomes communists like Bill Wilson into the party.

LOAD OF RUBBISH!

18

The Fly Fifer,

Fife 07/08/2007 03:46:53
19

MacIan,

07/08/2007 04:10:03

"10. Name / 2:42am 7 Aug 2007
English oot, Blacks oot, Asians oot. Keep Scotland "Scottish".

You racists and bigots are PATHETIC."

Where did THAT come from?? Where in any of these posts was stated an opinion which deserved such an exercise of indignation.??

The answer is of course no where. Which says a great deal about the writer, and brings to mind epithets as "insecure", "paronoid", "blustering"
"irrational". I disagree with Royster on just about every occasion he writes but neither he nor any of the posts deserve such abuse.

20

MacIan,

07/08/2007 04:13:01

(Except maybe The Fly Fifer and W Smith on a bad day.)

21

The Fly Fifer,

Fife 07/08/2007 04:25:13

MacIan, I deserve abuse ..... moi ... why? because you disagree with me or you dislike me or you feel an inadequacy when fronted by some-one who can think?

22

MacIan,

07/08/2007 04:36:26

22. The Fly Fifer, Fife / 5:25am 7 Aug 2007:

It was intended as something to lighten a really awful
and useless post. I'm sorry it fell appart, even if I never agree with you.

23

The Daleks,

07/08/2007 04:47:56

#10

Have you got some unusual form Tourettes Syndrome?

Where on earth did that illogical outburst come from?

24

The Fly Fifer,

Fife 07/08/2007 04:53:58

MacIan If I listed ten things I think you would agree with me on at least three ............

want to try ?? might lighten up the post :-)

25

somerferg,

oz 07/08/2007 05:13:34

#25 oops I think you missed the point !

26

Red Mosquito,

East Kilbride 07/08/2007 05:14:07

What an unusual concept, a country wishing to determin it's own place in the world.

Better be careful, it might catch on.

27

Dave M,

07/08/2007 05:21:31

I'm just back from a holiday in West Coast America.

It was interesting to hear some comments relating to Scotland.

For example, "You're from Scotland? Do they speak English there?"

Also, "Tell me, do you need to get a ferry from England to go to Scotland?"

Maybe we DO need more publicity over there!

28

Haggis The Great,

Dunfermline 07/08/2007 05:41:07

#25

The Fly Fifer, yes, you are still an absolute disgrace to the name Fife. I have no doubt it takes a lang spoon to sup with you.

You are full of irrelevance.

29

Jim P,

07/08/2007 05:41:40

#7 Royster

"the Scottish taxpayer will be wholly-picking up the bill for something which is essentially a duplication."

...and the duplication can be removed by Scotland dealing with its own affairs ie by having control of foreign policy.

30

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 07/08/2007 05:48:50

David McLetchie, Scottish Conservative chief whip, said: "Scotland sits at the top tables in world affairs through being part of the United Kingdom."

The questions for David McLetchie should be these: on an issue (and there are many) in which there is a difference of interest between Scotland and England, whose interest does the UK's representative favour? Whose interest would a Scotttish representative favour?

31

Colinton Jimmie,

07/08/2007 05:49:45

Every time that I have visited the US, I have been impressed at how high the profile is of Irish tourism relative to how virtually imperceptible is Scotland's profile. UK tourism is invariably directed at beefeaters and London related themes. Enough said.

It is interesting to consider the thoughts recently expressed by Alastair Campbell, the former "real Prime Minister", to the effect that electoral events earlier this year in Scotland barely registered in the London psyche. MacLetchie and his ilk will have to do better than his comments reported in this article to be taken seriously.

32

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife News Room 07/08/2007 05:57:07

A little too much of the wrong sort of Scottishness at home here....

Too many people are condemming Salmond for trying something new.

I watched the program about Telford last night, good job *he* tried something new!

33

The Fly Fifer,

Fife 07/08/2007 06:01:27

Be precise mannie from Dunfermline,

what do you think is irrelevant in my views .........

34

Scotsgait,

on the web 07/08/2007 06:11:22

This sums up perfectly the difference between the labour and SNP views of Scotland. Kilts & kitsch v representation & reality.

There's no doubt which will be best for Scotland.

35

Conan,

Here 07/08/2007 06:20:35

If it takes wearing a kilt now and again to lead to an INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND, ok, I'll wear the damned thing. Its a small price to pay. We can work on the finer details of our national identity and purpose later - after we are an INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND. Keep yer eye on the the prize my laddies and lassies.

36

Royster,

07/08/2007 06:27:09

#30. Yes, and the costs will go up ten-fold.

37

Hugo, Ayrshire,

07/08/2007 06:37:11

" Earlier this year, a leaked report from Holyrood's top official in Brussels revealed Scotland's interests were being routinely ignored by Whitehall during negotiations and that Scottish ministers and civil servants were being kept "out of the loop" by London counterparts. "

Having read this, I am surprised anyone still tries to claim that Scotland's interests are adequately served by the Whitehall officials.

38

Scotsgait,

on the web 07/08/2007 06:38:46

#37 "the costs will go up ten-fold."

And the returns ?

39

St Andrew,

Edinbugh 07/08/2007 06:39:30

Odds on that MSP's and ministers won't be slow in arranging contact visits abroad.
Doesn't matter what party they belong to an SNP MSP freeloader is a Labour MSP freeloader is a Tory freeloader is a Lib Dem freeloader!

40

Cadgers,

Perth 07/08/2007 06:42:47

#5 :-)

41

Jock McNasty,

In the field 07/08/2007 06:45:41

Good stuff, Alex Salmond.

#14 Canada - Per Diem ? Eh, aye, eighty quid if you don't mind. Thanks.

42

Royster,

07/08/2007 06:49:37

#39. Good point but I don't think running diplomatic missions brings in much business anyway. It's usually down to cost and these can only be influenced by a) economies of scale b) expertise or c) massive tax breaks at the expense of the tax-paying population.

43

Royster,

07/08/2007 06:51:40

#28. No. Americans need more holidays and some of them, like many people in the UK, need to spend more time looking at an atlas.

44

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 07:02:41

So the British Embassy in Washington is not going to replace the Scottish representative there and this turns into let's have a go at the SNP?

Like 'so now what are you gonna do'?

Shame that in a piece which dwells so much on Tartan week, the Scotsman misses the opportunity to point out that Tartan Week is a 100% American initiative which they decided to have in order to commemorate the role that Scots had in the founding of the USA.

The Declaration of Independence being widely regarded as having been modelled on the Declaration of Arbroath, hence the timing, and upon the initiation obligation of Scottish and Irish freemasons who were prime movers in the fledgling US independence movement.

It has only been lately that Scotland has had any direct input at all, notably with the former FM turning up for Tartan Week in a non-tartan kilt which certainly raised the profile, if only with Scots back home.

Imagine, one of the most lucrative markets in the world decides to have a spotlight on us and we're still squabbling about shortbread and tartan.
Here is a customer saying 'can we have some more?' and we're worrying if this projects the right image of Scotland?

Compare this with the problems that the multibillion dollar world of Formula One has had in trying to sell its product, or FIFA in trying to promote the World Game, in the USA and you get some idea of the scale of the potential.

45

Media 1,

cape town 07/08/2007 07:05:40

Scotland has been part of the union for 300 years, but only we really understand what that means. Most English folk think the union is a flag, its us Scots who are more inclined to discuss the union, its benefits and its negatives.

Point is, people across the world dont see Scotland as part of a union, they see Scotland as Scotland. The union jack to them is British and British is English. But that is only their understanding of the union topic, it does nothing to change Scotlands position as Scotland. The famous nation of inventors, whiskey, kilts and bagpipes HAS ALWAYS been famous for just that. Scotland is a close friend of America and France, not to mention many other nations, and our part within the union has nothing to do with that. In other words, we have always been independent to those outside of Scotland, and we always will be.

I think its great to promote Scotland abroad, but I would not want any campaign that tried to expose the union as a bad thing. I would simply want a Scottish campaign about Scotland to be broadcast to other nations.

46

JB2003,

Hong Kong 07/08/2007 07:11:27

I have such a hoot reading these comments. I love the NATIONALISTS that want everyone to know that they're a NATIONALIST and want an INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND. I also love the writers who want everyone to know how Scottish they are by writing in colloquial auld Scots. Then there's the UNIONISTS who equally want to bang on about how the SNP are a one-policy party with an all-style no-substance media-friendly leader hell-bent on power!

Great stuff folks. You're all headbangers!

47

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 07:13:51

#12
Faye ... love yer ode to John Smeaton ... brilliant.

Anyone who has ever encountered the Londoncentric mentality that exists in Inglaterra del sur will appreciate why wee Eck
...and Nicola 'five dinners' Sturgeon are actually oan the right track here.
Why so Londoncentric are they w.r.t. anything north o' Watford Gap ... they don't even know where Sheffield is on a map.

48

JB2003,

Hong Kong 07/08/2007 07:16:47

As the Chewing the Fat boys would say: "Oh the banter!"

49

john z,

07/08/2007 07:18:41

whisky, not whiskEy.

50

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 07:20:05

#27
Red Mosquito ...
aye yer right laddie ... sounds a wee bit too dangerous ehh ... bloody hell ye will be asking folks to think for themselves ehh.
Nahh thats a wee bit too radical ... even wee Eck and "five dinners" Sturgeon urrnae up for that.

51

Craig Munro,

07/08/2007 07:21:17

* 46 Royster

"I think its great to promote Scotland abroad, but I would not want any campaign that tried to expose the union as a bad thing."

Expose, Royster....expose?

52

eddylongshanks,

york 07/08/2007 07:21:58

#48 Nope, they're all SCOTTISH and have been fighting amongst themselves since time immemorial

53

John S,

07/08/2007 07:22:19

David McLetchie, Scottish Conservative chief whip, said: "Scotland sits at the top tables in world affairs through being part of the United Kingdom.

An independent Scotland can do even better with 12-14 members of the European Parliament, a member of the Council of the European Union and attending the European Council (referred to as a European Summit), a member of the Council of Europe and then President of the Council of the European Union on a rotating basis.

There is also a seat at the UN and being member of the Olympic movement etc etc

Then Scotland would be sitting at the top tables in world affairs.

54

CJO,

The Maghreb 07/08/2007 07:22:54

14 - Do you not mean "carpe diem" ? As in seize the day rather than getting a per diem living allowance or is this another example of the hand out culture that pervades Scotland?

12 - Well done Faye, you have dragged the level of debate up by the scruff of its neck. You're a card.

On to the story (and like the overwhelming majority of Scots I am anti-independence and I voted for the Union) - In this instance I completely agree with the SNP. If the Scottish Executive is not trying to make a difference and encourage foreign investment into Scotland it shouldn't be there. Every thing else it does is merely re-arranging the deck chairs.

55

,

07/08/2007 07:27:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 852560, Article id was mapped to record!
56

morris,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 07:27:59

7

Whatever is proposed its certainly not a duplication!
We already have a representation as part of the United Kingdom a.k.a England.
What we want is a recognition of Scotland.
Westminster could stop this tomorrow morning by being a truly British Government whose purpose is not to play God and lord it over what remains of her Empire, whilst systematically favouring the south at the expense of everybody else.If the scots are wrong about this how come many in the North of England feel exactly the same way, and Wales !

There is absloutely no chance of that happening from a UK persective ,so we must do it ourselves.
47

We definitely do have a steep hill to climb and Unionists like you helped construct that hill!
From now on we are progressively doing our own construction .

Scotland has a brand which the world recognises and a culture which is second to none in its content ,it only requires marketing and we are home and dry.
The level of tourism we are capable of compared to our only having 5 million people is unbeleivable.
The problem England faces is despite her concentration of everything in the South and South East ,she may end up regretting this one day soon.
If she has a short term advantage over Scotland ,which is what I believe she has,then its of her own manufacture.It cannot be anyone else since 1707.
The times they ARE a changin!

57

Doh,

07/08/2007 07:32:48

Tartan underpants,

58

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 07:35:37

#58

ahh Morris dancing ...

Dae the English cousins still dae that when they are bein' pure dead ethnic 'n'at?

Ok so folk in Sheffield and Carlisle and Liverpool get a rough time from "soft Soooooothern Nancys" ... tell us sumfink new old bean.

"It just not cricket old chap"

59

donald,

weegieland 07/08/2007 07:38:13

The only racist comments I've seen here are from Unionists and Imperialists.

60

,

07/08/2007 07:38:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 852607, Article id was mapped to record!
61

Stevie G,

07/08/2007 07:39:01

58. morris, Edinburgh

In 1707 Scottish merchants welcomed the businessess advantages that being part of the UK gave to them

The union has kept Scottish industries going for centuries with orders placed for Britain. If Scotland was independent then these orders would have gone to English industry.

Scottish workers are no better than English workers and in terms of perfromance the Union's productivity is worst than the Far East

Alex Salmond is right to promote Scotland but only as part of the Union which would provide a more attractive package to customers

62

Stevie G,

07/08/2007 07:40:22

62. donald,

You obviously don't check out these pages very often, Scottish independance seekers are openly racist against the English

63

entropent,

07/08/2007 07:42:26

Many thanks to all for this thread, it is a good window into the Scot point of view. Which, after all, is why I like to hang around these fora.

#45 I did not know that about the Declaration; it is not taught in US schools (very little else is, for that matter...)

64

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 07:44:42

#61
Zoom ...
Naw if Scotland was the Tuscany of England Silvio Berlosconi would buy half of it (mibbee he has already)
A certain 'yesterday's man'
as in (former elected member for Sedgefield) and his wife wid be here oan their hols.

Plus ye might actually get some decent Italian scran instead o' the faeces that passes fur grub??

65

CJO,

The Maghreb 07/08/2007 07:47:19

#65 - You are kidding yourself if you thought the eyes of the World were on Scotland before 1707.

66

Alastair the First,

Dumfries 07/08/2007 07:49:29

Can I chip in my tuppenceworth, as someone who a few years ago spent a fair bit of time in the Middle East on business?

Some of my trips were as part of trade missions organised by Scottish Trade International (later renamed Scottish Development International). We had wee lapel badges of a saltire and a flag of the nations we were visiting (primarily the UAE). We had contact with the British Embassies and their staff did NOT like the fact that for official engagements we mainly wore kilts. They didn't like us exhibiting any sign of Scottishness, and wanted us to ditch our badges and wear union jack badges instead. Naturally we refused to a man (and woman). We found that as Scots we were well received everywhere, whereas even at that time, before the last Gulf war, being British was not a positive attribute in doing business there.

IMHO Tartan Week should be renamed to Scottish Week, or maybe Scotland Week. Keep the pipes and drums etc as it's entertaining for New Yorkers, but let's emphasise the nation behind the show.

To claim that Scotland is well represented by UK people is plain nonsense - as has been pointed out, our interests are only represented if they coincide with the interests of England, which as everyone is now realising isn't necessarily the case.

67

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 07:50:22

#65
As someone who spends mucho tiempo servicing clients from overseas ... I agree Scotland is regarded by many as the northly part of Yorkshire

However wee Eck and "five dinners" Sturgeon need tae git oot mair and promote SCOTLAND ... rather than their own EGOS

That's why people are gettin a wee bit cynical o' wee Eck and the rotund one

68

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 07:51:10

#7 Royster

I suppose Salmond is no more going beyond his remit than McConnell did by spending money on Malawi.

69

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 07:52:40

#10 Name

it seems that you are the bigot my friend. No-one had mentioned any of that until you.

70

morris,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 07:53:00

66

Stevie


I detest racism,I belong to a party which detests racism,and my partner is English. many English people are members of the SNP including one of its leading lights!

There are people in Scotland who have all kinds of views but I can assure you any divisions along the lines of creed colour religion will find no home for them in the SNP>
The Labour Party would like this tag of course to become popular opinion,but its just not true.
In any case your own level of intelligence should tell you that to brand an entire movement is a generalisation which is the hallmark of stupidity.

There will be at the very least exceptions if not a complete opposite of what you claim.
Many English people are hostile to an indpendent Scotland,whilst others recognise they have nothing to fear from this and embrace it. I would never assume All English born people in Scotland think anythingin particular! They are individuals same as everybody else is.The same is true of the Scots.

71

Edward,

07/08/2007 07:53:25

'opposition parties fear "SNP globetrotters" are unnecessary as Scotland is represented through embassies and consulates of the UK'
Now that is funny!
Considering that carrer diplomats in the Foreign office are all drawn from the Eton/Sandhurst set and a jolly nice bunch they are too, are not going to do anything about promoting Scotland in any great detail

72

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 07:54:59

#70
Alastair ...
Just as an experiment ...
Next foray to Manchester or Leeds or Nottingham ...!
Get a swatch at the 'local rag' ... as in the local evening paper ...
Count how much stuff there is aboot London ... the locality ... and Scotland ...
... or the "Scotch" (as Yorkshire folk call us)

73

Alastair the First,

Dumfries 07/08/2007 07:58:53

76: I don't know what your point is meant to be.....

74

Boy Wonder,

07/08/2007 07:58:57

As has been admitted, we in Scotland have always been underrepresented in "Union affairs". So ditch them! We are quite a capable people and I say we set up our own embassies and consulates and speak for our OWN interestd and to hell with a Union that thinks we're a region of England!
Tartan Day shouldn't be thrown out altogether, but used a foundation to build on to educate people that, as in the past, without Scotland the world would be a poorer place. After all, without our kinsmen, much of the modern world might very well be lacking. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_inventions

75

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 07:59:21

#37 Royster

A typical Unionist one-sided view. You forget about the returns from the investment through increased business, tourism etc.

It really is time to take the blinkers off!

76

,

07/08/2007 08:02:44
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77

morris,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 08:04:27

60

If you have a point to make please do so. Tell us something new? That means you agree with me then!

Criticism from someone who agrees? I think you need to go 'ave a lie down ,or as I said in my opening line make whatever point you wish to make .
I presume you do actually have one!

78

Justy,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 08:07:07

It is about time that many parts of the world were told that there is more to Scotland than the kilt (a purely Highland form of dress) and all its accoutraments.


Justy.

79

morris,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 08:08:43

80

As I have clearly sated elsewhere some favour independence and some favour retention of the Status Quo.This is true on both sides of the border.

Considering I live with a girl from Merseyside I can hardly disagree can I?

80

Royster,

07/08/2007 08:09:02

#79. Connaughtboy. That's an old chestnut; what you are saying, in essence, is that the government knows what is best for the economy and that it can pick winners. Unfortunately, by offering the likes of tax breaks, it is gambling with other people's money; money which would be better spent by returning it to the people. Yes, you can always encourage investment in your country; but at what price? You also need to consider the return on the capital/tax payers's money. You may spend a lot of money on tourism but how much money do tourists spend and who benefits?

81

,

07/08/2007 08:09:35
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82

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 08:13:15

#64 Stevie G

You cannot be serious, can you??

My god you are serious! More fool you then.

83

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 08:15:22

#66 Stevie G

Being a Nationalist and liking the English are not mutually exclusive as you appear to think. And they say the Scots have a chip on their shoulder!

84

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 08:16:34

#83
numero ochentatres
Ahh so the Liverpool lass stole yer heart Morris old chap.

The vixen ... what ulterior motive Scouse underhand tactics did she use ... kidnapping our fine Scottish manhood with their wimminly wiles ... och the harlot !!!
Bloody Scouse harpie (sic)


SEE OLD CHAP

...I DO HAVE A SARCASTICO SENSE OF HUMOUR.

Y tu amigo??

85

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 08:17:29

#68 CJO

I think you need to read a bit more about the influence that Scots and Scotland have had on the world before you make any more glib comments like that.

86

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 08:18:33

#68 should read #69

87

David Hood,

Edinburgh / Wishaw 07/08/2007 08:23:37

'UNSURE of Whitehall's commitment to Scotland's interests abroad'

..... we are ALL MORE than 'unsure'. I am sure that most of Scotland is CERTAIN that it is a pretty low level commitment and little more than disinterest at best.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is seriously deluded. Or daft.

88

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 08:24:25

#90
el irlandes chico
que te pasa chico?
Yer no makin ony sense pally pal ... mibbee loast in translation or perhaps the Ether-net link to the Emereld Isle isnae bangin' oot sufficiant digital pulses tae compensate


as in
WHIT?

Spit it oot chico por favor muchacho

89

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 08:25:56

#84 royster

Your post bears no relevance to what I was saying.

It really is quite simple. It is exactly the same as running a business. You set up a sales department, you spend money actively selling your products and services (investment) and you increase your sales (return on investment)

Why are you having difficulty accepting this concept? It strikes me that your post is just "noise".

90

David Hood,

Edinburgh / Wishaw 07/08/2007 08:27:04

Oh - and remember it was not that long ago when the old Scottish Tourist Board etc wasn't allowed to do any PR abroad and it all had to go through the 'British' Tourist authorities .....

.... and that was when we used to get the 'British' promotions wiht images punting Buck House and London, with not much else - except maybe a (very) lone piper occasionally

91

AJ of Fife,

07/08/2007 08:27:41

Alex Salmond's star continues to rise, much to the annoyance of the Unionists on this forum!!!

For once Scotland is in a safe pair of hands and never has there been so much focus on the nation and it's politics!!! Good times are ahead!!

92

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 08:27:54

#92 Pilar

Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

93

pehman,

sussex 07/08/2007 08:28:16

66 stevie,
the bulk of the bigots and racists on this forum - from my perspective have been the brittish nationalists of which you are but one !

94

Edward,

07/08/2007 08:29:20

#69
Actually your wrong
In the 16th, 17th and early 18th century
the known world was what we would consider our back yard.
Scotland was an important trading nation, which traded with Norway, the Baltic, Rotterdam, France, the Hanseatic countries, Portugal. Through Rotterdam and Hamburg it had a reach even further!
Part of the reason behind the act of union was to put a stop to this trading, in favour of english merchants

95

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 08:29:54

#90
esperandote chico ...

... could ye miss oot oan "the Blarney" and furnish me wae a relatively logical rational explanation ... or mibbee ye made an early start oan the Guinesses this morn??

As in the Whiteinch ... the wan the barman leaves oan the tap o' yer pint o' the cerveza negra

96

Copper,

Falkirk 07/08/2007 08:30:27

David McLetchie ... is that the same TAXI McLechie that steals from the public purse when he uses his office in Holyrood to do his legal work and his staff to assist him and our paid equipement to phone, copy,fax etc etc etc
And our paid taxi s to transport all of them
And is still doing it

And the Tory Party see no wrong in all this ??????

97

Miss H,

07/08/2007 08:32:40

7 Royster

It is not duplication and money will not be wasted. We will be able to have more and better representation for the same cost if we get out of the status-oriented view of international representation and see it primarily as building contacts and backing Scottish businesses abroad.

To take just one example, the SNP has been promoting the 'Scotland House' model - that is not Scotland House in Brussels, but the one in Estonia. This model provides services both the Scottish and Estonian businesses that want to trade with each other; it's a way to share contacts and for both countries to be promoted. See this press release:

That is the kind of thing that we need to build on - it's much smaller scale than UK embassy operations but that is what we actually need. We are not going out for billion dollar arms contracts so we don't have to bribe anyone and we are not getting into a Ferrero Rocher competition for who can put on the most lavish hospitality. That is where the real waste lies.

98

donal mcdonald,

07/08/2007 08:33:42

"SNP globetrotters"

"Although support for Tartan Week is unlikely to be withdrawn,"

"create amusement for New Yorkers, "

Says it all! What a vision for the future of Scotland.

99

Miss H,

07/08/2007 08:33:56

7 Royster

It is not duplication and money will not be wasted. We will be able to have more and better representation for the same cost if we get out of the status-oriented view of international representation and see it primarily as building contacts and backing Scottish businesses abroad.

To take just one example, the SNP has been promoting the 'Scotland House' model - that is not Scotland House in Brussels, but the one in Estonia. This model provides services both the Scottish and Estonian businesses that want to trade with each other; it's a way to share contacts and for both countries to be promoted.

That is the kind of thing that we need to build on - it's much smaller scale than UK embassy operations but that is what we actually need. We are not going out for billion dollar arms contracts so we don't have to bribe anyone and we are not getting into a Ferrero Rocher competition for who can put on the most lavish hospitality. That kind of thing is actually about status, not making money.

100

Roy,

07/08/2007 08:35:14

The unionists are against Scotland adopting an international profile because they have been putting it about for years that independence means some kind of Hoxha-style isolationism. They don't like to see the new Scotland engaging with other nations.
Scotland is poorly represented by British Embassies, etc and we should not be surprised at that. Even wee Jack recognised that Scotland needed to plough its own furrow a little, even if his well-intended Malawian adventure didn't set the heather on fire.

101

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 08:36:56

#100
well ...
was that a Westland Helicopter flyin' by there?
Graft and corruption have always been the Tory and New Lay-Bore way ...

Problem is wee Eck and "la gorda" Nicola S. ... well mission creep ... cynicism ... etc ... goat tae keep them keen
...or they will git complacent ... yes?

102

morris,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 08:39:01

88

I would like to suggest that it was her brain which fascinated and impressed me,but she ended up living with me so shes clearly not as bright as I thought she was !

103

CJO,

The Maghreb 07/08/2007 08:39:57

# 89 - Can you give me examples of Scots World influence prior to the Union. Thanks. Since the Union the influence, especially via the Empire has been significant, prior to that...

104

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 08:41:44

#101
Ms. H

w.r.t. "The Ambassadors receptions"
... are aye pure Shectersen van der Bechtersen ... fu' o' eejits wae their snouts in the trough

Corruption ...
Greasing tyhe pole ...
Graft ...

so whits new?

105

Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 08:42:14

It is claimed that England's greatest prize was the Indian sub-contintent: the Jewel in the Crown?
However, during its history England did everything in its not inconsiderable power to militarily conquer stubborn, independent Scotland but never quite managed it, until eventually it dynastically and politically seduced its Northern neighbour.

In all probability the greatest prize England ever 'catched' was Scotland and now for various reasons is very reluctant to ever let it go!

The Union has ensured that for the past 300 years England has had a secure northern border, the continuation of the monarchy and protestant religion, access to Scotland's maritime waters which have subsequently produced the massive oil and gas bounty, its formidable manpower and, most of all, the genes of its remarkably well educated population, who intermarried with the English race!

A great deal of emphasis is always placed on the great political deal Scotland obtained in uniting with England? Nowadays, many would question this alleged bargain? The English can agonise all they like about Devolution in the Celtic Nations but they forget that the breakup of the U.K. began in 1922!

85 years later the Republic of Ireland is one of
the most prosperous small nations in the world with a successful economy, annual growth rates that Gordon Brown would die for, and GNP and GDP rates that far outstrip the fifth largest economy in the world!

106

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 08:46:53

#108 CJO

It is not my job to educate you. You seem to be particularly ignorant of our history. By your twisted logic, the Scottish Enlightenment (which took place after 1707) was a result of our Union with England i suppose.

107

,

07/08/2007 08:49:05
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108

George Mackay,

Dundee 07/08/2007 08:53:15

74 Morris. You're wrang. Disliking the English is what the SNP is all about. My Auntie Jean in Coupar Angus hates the English on account of what happened to her when we she went to England at the end of the war and she's voted for the SNP all her life.

109

morris,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 08:53:58

28

I take your point of course,but I suspect what was demonstrated here was the level of geography that passes for High School Graduate in the USA!

They have a large country to be fair and tend to spend a great deal of time on studying their own North American Continent,although I have heard from Canadians that the USA are just as ignorant of Canada ,and many think Alaska is still a separate country! They only recognise Hawaii because USA history includes Pearl Harbour!
I myself have been asked if I was voting Democrat or Republican in the USA election.There are people there who think everybody votes for the American president because he is the leader of the free world !

110

eddylongshanks,

york 07/08/2007 08:55:30

Where did you cut and paste that from Lachie Todd ?

111

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 08:56:24

64. Stevie G
The union has kept Scottish industries going for centuries, care to suggest a few?

My recollection is that the Union emptied Fife harbours when Scottish trade with the Baltic ports, Scandinavia and the Low Countries withered on the vide after 1707.

For the first century of the Union Scotland was crippled by carrying the UK national debt, run up in continental military advenures and building the British Empire.

If you a refereing to the expansion of the British Empire and the Industrial Revolution this really kicked in only during the latter half of the 19th century and by the end of WWI Britain was bankrupt and asking the USA for hand outs.
A situation which persisted until 1980 when the UK Exchequer began cashing in on revenue from North Sea Oil.

The situation at one point got so bad that during the Great Strike, Whitehall sent tanks into Glasgow's George Square to subdue the protests of the people gathering there.

Those industries that the UK has kept going for centuries you mentioned, which of them are still operating in Scotland today?

112

,

07/08/2007 08:57:24
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113

Upbeat,

07/08/2007 08:59:08

The article contains a statement from a spokesperson at Holyrood who imagines that she works for the Scottish Government.

<<<but a spokeswoman for the Executive said: "Michael Kellet has over the past two years been very effective in representing the Scottish government in the USA. The Scottish government will continue to be represented in the USA, whose relationship with Scotland remains important." >>>>

Ther is no such thing ....yet..... ! Perhaps someone should break into her dreamworld and enlighten her .

114

Publius,

London 07/08/2007 09:00:03

It's not only Americans who are ignorant about Scotland. A few months ago I met a lectrice - French University student from Paris reading English and spending a year at an English University. I said she should visit Edinburgh. She said she couldn't do that because they spoke Gaelic in Edinburgh and the only foreign languages she knew were English and German.

115

Royster,

07/08/2007 09:00:38

#93. Connaughtboy. But companies and industries can do that by themselves can't they? Why does the government have to get involved? It just piles running costs onto the taxpayer.

116

Miss H,

07/08/2007 09:04:17

113

So what happened to your Aunty Jean?

Did she see something nasty in the woodshed?

117

Royster,

07/08/2007 09:05:38

That's right Zoom, Unionists are the ones in the black hats and SNP supporters are the ones in the white hats. Try and get a bit of perspective.

118

,

07/08/2007 09:05:43
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119

The La Gomera Ashley Nicole Hilton Fan Club,

07/08/2007 09:10:18

"It is understood staff at Scottish Development International (SDI), the Executive's global inward investment agency, could take on a more wide-ranging role in the US."

"A senior SNP figure said yesterday.."

Conjecture and BS.

120

Royster,

07/08/2007 09:13:37

#110. Lachie Todd. Not sure what you mean when you talk about the English 'race' but any country can have Ireland's growth rate if interest rates are several percentage points below inflation.

121

Upbeat,

07/08/2007 09:14:18

Trying to resist the prevocative postings by the historically ill-equipped , factually misinformed and temporally muddled thinking of Zoom is becoming increasingly hard. But I'll give it another couple of hours at least.

Watch this space if you can be bothered.

122

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 09:16:13

I was reading this thing an Irlandesa colleague sent me recently.

It was about how the drug dealers in Dublin Cork and Galway have better guns and faster communications than said Economic Miracle stripy feline's local Harry Margolis ... apparently the 'Old Bill' turned tail and fled after being confronted by a heavily armed possee in one of said 'sink estates' and had an embaressing and humiliating swift sharp exit as the local residents of said cooncil scheme jeered at the "losers" from the constabulary as they made their speedy retreat to the safety of their nice warm Harry Margolis Station to be debriefed by the Sergeant and the Inspector

123

Stevie G,

07/08/2007 09:17:26

74. morris,

Your right I should have added a percentage of the SNP supporters are racist against the English. But as I stated before I've been in England for 20 years and never experienced any racism towards me. However everytime an English colleague goes North they always have a story to tell about some idiot(s) being hostile towards because they are English. I put this down to an inadequacy complexwithin a element of the Scottish Population (proably they also drive 4x4s)

124

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 09:18:28

123. Royster
To carry your Hollywood metaphor, the black and white hats are the cowboys, the ones in the blue warpaint amongst the heather would be the native aboriginals supplied for target practice with 100 shot 45s.

125

Royster,

07/08/2007 09:20:51

#116. British/Scottish industry was very strong until the second world when many of its assets had to be sold to fight Hitler. The sole trading rights within the Empire also went, I believe, as a condition of US help. Obviously, the price was worth paying.

126

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 09:23:06

#126
Yes yes ...
si si si senor

Ego ....
hmmmm
We need to keep wee Eck and la gorda Nicola ...
... oan their toes ...
Nuthin worse than politicos who git complacent
Mission creep
Corruption
So lets stay oan their case
Wee Eck and wee fatso Nicola need tae be watched like hawks ...
If we dinnae dae that they will git complacent ... yes??

127

Allan (Glasgow),

07/08/2007 09:25:44

This move on its own isn't overly symbolic, indeed Jock whitshisname initiated it, but it represents yet another subtle inexorable movement towards independence. That is why Unionists are horrified by actions such as these.

Remember in the early days of devolution when Henry McLeish referred to the Executive as "Scotland's Government"? Remember the condemnation from Westminster? Well the term Scottish Government is now accepted.

With the next transfer of powers the follow through to the end of Union is simply inevitable

128

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 09:27:40

129. Pilar la Guapita Escocesa
For the most part of the 20th century Irish paramilitaries from either side of the divide ran fund raising activities to buy the instruments of their stock in trade.

During the first IRA ceasefire the BBC reported that turnover of the republican paramilitaries was in the region of £20m a year with the loyalist at about half this.

They reported that the IRA had shown interest in obtaining shares in African diamond mines.

The question is, now that the 'armed struggle' has been declared over, who is benefiting from this fund raising?

Your example would tend to suggest the answer.

129

Allan (Glasgow),

07/08/2007 09:27:50

132 Royster

Actually British/Scottish industry was not strong after WW1. Our traditional industries had buckled through chronic under investment and only started to recover with re-armament.

130

Pinkie,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 09:29:07

Scottish Parochialism will be our undoing. Scottish History proves that when we made alliances (e.g. The United Kingdom) - we were successful - when we "went it alone" we perished.

We can not expect ordinary "foreigners" to understand or differentiate between English, Scot, and Welsh. Can any ordinary Scot differentiate between - for example - the Nigerians, Ghanaians, Nambians, Somalians, etc, or Bantu, Hitu, Aka, Lembu, etc. NO! We think of them as African - until we ask or they inform us otherwise. It's no big deal for other nationalities to be unable to differentiate. Just be proud to be BRITISH and proud to be a Scot (or Welsh or English)

p.s. Yet again Salmond like the majority of politicians is using publicity on worthless "causes" for self-agrandising aims - which will cost the taxpayer more money!

131

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 09:29:10

#130
Esteban mi amorcito

por favor numpito ... que te pasa?

You have lived in England and never once been called "Jock"
Never once been asked aboot the moths in yer wallet
Or never once been asked to translate what ye said intae English

C'moan ...
Whit frightfully isolated cucoon do you reside in?

I have also lived in different parts of Inglaterra
But I tend to interact with our rather sexy English cousins by engaging them in wit and repartee ... as in humour

...Roger old bean

puedo explicar un poco mas ??

132

'Hezza,

07/08/2007 09:35:20

We need our own ambassador; one who will be attired in a tartan suit, tartan shoes, shirt, tie, and have tartan glasses. Ideally, this fine figure will also serve tartan ferrero roche, and shake the most sublime irn bru and whisky 'cocktail' in the world.

133

camster,

glasgow 07/08/2007 09:35:47

70 alistair

Like you I have been on many trade missions with SDI. and have 4 comments to make.

1, The previous government under Jack McConnell was the most isolationist that I have seen with all missions actively run seperate from British involvement and the Union Jack banned from our booths

2, While many Scots, who do not travel, think that the Union Jack is a hated flag. The vast majority of the world recognise and admire it. This is increasing as the memory of the empire fades.

3, Scotland is way too small to go it alone. How many of you have heard of Chengdu? It is a provincal capital of Sichuan with a population of 11 million. I was there last month and they run the whole province of 100 million plus from 2 main buildings.

4, The UK Government has been too Londoncentric in the past but the way to change this is from the inside. In areas such as fishing and tourism it is critical that Scotland uses all avenues to promote its local interests, but lets not be stupid and try to replicate what works. In my industry, the medtech sector, regionlisation is strong. Often the Scots ally with regions such as Yorkshire and Wales to make sure that the whole of the UK is represented at the top table.

134

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 09:35:55

133. Pilar la Guapita Escocesa

Your style of posting is quite distinct and your turn of phrase reminds me of someone else who let himself slip into the odd Scotticism.

Ever tried shrooms dude?

135

Homo Sapiens,

07/08/2007 09:36:46

Tartan Week is a joke! It is a free junket to the USA for Scottish Executive Politicians and civil servants and Visit Scotland functionaries. I know of no one who decided to come and visit Scotland, or anyone that has decided to invest in Scotland because of the £650,000 being wasted by the Government on this silly show of "men in quilts parading with their bagpipes". Most parades in the US, including those in small town USA usually have a marching band with bag-pipes... seeing one more bag-pipe band certainly will not make the difference.

There are many better ways to promote Scotland on the International scene than a Bag-pipe parade! What a cynical and wasteful way to placate the aspirations of a nation.

136

,

07/08/2007 09:37:30
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137

Brian Hill,

07/08/2007 09:39:09

Let’s look at existing country pairings worldwide to examine the arrangements they have for self promotion…excluding Wales/England of course.

For example does Canada allow more powerful neighbouring America to promote on its behalf? No.

Does Denmark, smaller than Scotland in terms of geography and population, allow much larger and more powerful neighbouring Germany to negotiate for it at the EU? No.

Does tiny Kuwait allow its bigger more powerful neighbour Saudi Arabia to negotiate for it on the world stage? No.

Can the Unionists point us in the direction of any other country pairing in the world where the smaller is keen for the larger to negotiate for it on the world stage?

Have I gone deaf? I'm sorry I can't hear you....

138

Royster,

07/08/2007 09:40:27

#139. Being teased about place of origin in England is not unique to Scots. I was born and brought up near Hull and crass comments about Yorkshiremen and 'northerners' (whippets, Nora Batty, cloth caps etc) in southern England are rife. Because of my slight northern accent, I get more respect in Holland than in London (at least people in Holland know where Hull is). With the exception of Prince Charles, no-one realised that Hull had disappeared beneath the recent flood waters until several days later.

139

Media 1,

cape town 07/08/2007 09:40:41

#57 Pilar la Guapita Escocesa: No, I do not pander for PW Botha. I pander for Mandela, because the bufoon we have at the moment is a real waste of space. But lets not turn this into some SA history lesson, this is about the BRAVE land of Scotland and our place on the world stage.

I dont like Salmond, you know that. But if he wants to spend time and energy, as well as money making Scotland more attractive to tourists then I support his plans. Scotland is already represented through the British embassies abroad, but there is nothing wrong with even more representation, as long as its about Scotland, and not a smeer campaign about the union.

Scotland is famous the world over as a proud, brave and historic land. Our people are welcomed the world over and all of us are accepted as SCOTS, not Brits as some say.

If Salmond wants to promote Scotland, then good for him, it doesnt mean I have to like him though.

140

Royster,

07/08/2007 09:41:08

#145. But we are the same country.

141

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

digging tunnel tae Londinistan 07/08/2007 09:41:22

#142
Livia the pizzener
Naw jist Benson and Hedges old chap.
Mahh hubbie says ma breath stinks
But he still tickles ma ivories of an evening and winches the gub aff me

142

Stevie G,

Darlington 07/08/2007 09:42:39

139. Pilar la Guapita Escocesa, digging tunnel tae Londinistan

Your reply to my post is pure gibberish, neither funny nor incisive.

If you take being called Jock or moths in your wallet racist, then you have a very low racism tolerance (both of these terms come from Scottish Comedians). I have been all round England on business and pleasure and I have never been called Jock. Also Yorkshire men are seen as more being tight-fisted and have more jokes told about them than Scots.

If your example of humour in this post is an example of your wit and repartee you tried with the sexy English ( you didn’t express a preference for male or female so must be a bi) then it is not racism they have expressed but shock and revulsion

143

eddylongshanks,

york 07/08/2007 09:45:19

Everyday the same anti English diatribe. Wake up - Scots have been central to "Britain" and its history for the past 300 years, Scots are central today in the media, business and not least Government - I say again wake up and smell the coffee, Scotland and Scots are responsible for their position in the world today not the English.
Frankly, independence when it comes will be from a groundswell of English hostility to Scotland which you will have nurtured yourselves and your media, business and Westminster representatives will be dragged kicking and screaming from the trough they have fed on for so long.
Can none of you see thats Scots have created their own destiny not had it imposed by the English ?
How many allegedly subjugated territories are allowed to run the country that allegedly subjugated them ?
But of course its easier to blame others than look inwards at oneself - but of course we all know that dont we ?

144

Allan (Glasgow),

07/08/2007 09:46:42

141 Camster
"Scotland is way too small to go it alone. How many of you have heard of Chengdu? It is a provincal capital of Sichuan with a population of 11 million. I was there last month and they run the whole province of 100 million plus from 2 main buildings"

Firstly, I draw a deep breath in utter exasperation at the first sentence. Absolutely pathetic. Then onto Chengdu. Yeah, great example is China.

Is Chengdu a country? Has it ever been a country? Nope. So why the comparison? You could equally counter with how many people have heard of Malta? Or Luxembourg? Or Ireland? Oh yeah, the whole planet has heard of them. And they are all smaller than Scotland.

For info, I have travelled very widely both business and pleasure just in case you decide to adopt the usual tactic of labelling supporters of the end of Union as isolationist. And by the way, where you get the idea that the Union flag is loved round the world is beyond me. My cousin just set off back-packing around the world and took off the flag from her backpack for safety. Apparently, USA backpackers change theirs to Canadian. Feel the love!!

145

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 07/08/2007 09:47:09

Politicians are probably the worst people to try and bring in business - and that is not having a go at the SNP - it is true of all of the them.

146

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 07/08/2007 09:53:56

#61

Independence would not make much of a difference to some foreigners perceptions - they would still be ignorant. It's on par with people who confuse New Zealanders for Australians; Canadians for Americans; Slovaks for Czechs; Latvians for Russians and so on. Just because a country is independent does not mean that the ignorance goes away.

Remember that in some of these cases the people will not have been out of their own state never mind their own country!!

147

'Hezza,

07/08/2007 09:54:56

Zoom, I'm feeling it, man.

Pinkie:

When I go to Lagos, oh boy do I know I'm in Lagos...conversely, when I fly to Yaounde, I know I'm in Cameroon. I think people would say the same between London and Edinburgh/Glasgow. Quite different attitudes: the people are different. Remaining 'British' doesn't really wash under your argument.

I ask this to alot of Unionists - should the UK give up its nationhood and let Europe decide for it? It amounts to exactly the same thing. The elegance of this argument is that the most vociferous Unionists are the very ones who can't stand Europe!

148

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 10:01:08

132. Royster
WWI left the UK in effect bankrupt, the country borrowed £850 million, mostly from the United States, with interest payments alone costing this country some 40% of GDP.

The Great Strike of the interwar years, where the government used the tanks to put down protest, resulted from the conditions facing men coming home to their nation fit for heroes.

The UK economy was helpless to react during the Great Depression which followed.

Yet another U.S. loan of US$3.75 billion in the aftermath of World War II, with strings attached, has only just recently been paid off.

When international communism threatened to overcome western Europe the USA yet again came in with more money to keep UKplc afloat and out of the hands of the commies.

Then in the aftermath of Harold Wilson's refusal to get involved with the US in Vietnam the UK was forced that time to go to the IMF, with the resulting social chaos which ensued, rubbish left to pile up in the streets and the dead unable to be buried during the 'Winter of discontent'.

Aye right, the 20th century UK economy was the model for the world?

149

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 07/08/2007 10:03:09

# 158 Your analysis could equally apply to many other countries - when I am in Milan the attitudes are quite different than say the Mezzogiorno. Or what about Germany - attitudes in Berlin are quite different from Bavaria.

150

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 10:04:38

156

Well said. It's making a fuss about nothing. Unsuccesful businesses should not be assisted by goverment. It is up to individuals to promote thier own business abroad with the FCO.

This is actually all about Alik wanting to have Scottish consulates abroad so he can put his cronies in them to advance his own political ambitions. For all his trash talking of Blair, he seems to be envious of his global standing.

Who wants to work for the first SNP old boy in his Washington Embassy! Keep dreaming.

151

AJ of Fife,

07/08/2007 10:05:14

All the Unionist posters here should follow AM2's lead and convert to a Nationalist standpoint!!!

After months of being reamed, good and proper, in political argument, he has officially 'thrown in the towel' and is preparing to champion SNP policies and legislation!!

152

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 07/08/2007 10:05:54

Re eddylongshanks (#153) : "Everyday the same anti English diatribe." This is like my Finnish friends saying I'm "anti-Finnish" because I don't like the EU. They know it would be nonsense, especially since they don't like the EU either.

"How many allegedly subjugated territories are allowed to run the country that allegedly subjugated them ? " None. If the implication is that Scotland runs the UK or England, then this is clearly false, as these entities are run by Parliament. It's true that individual Scots have risen to prominence there, but only at the cost of commiting themselves to the UK in precedence over their own country. These is just like Stalin (Georgian) and Chernenko (Ukrainian) wielded power in the USSR, but only at the cost of commiting themelves personally to the union in precedence over their own countries.

153

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 07/08/2007 10:07:56

I have no problem with promoting Scottish business.

What I do have a problem with is the Brigadoon tartan and whisky nonsene that does not truly reflect our country. There are other important industries besides whisky and tourism - Biotechnology being one that springs to mind.

154

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 07/08/2007 10:10:38

A bit depressing reading this board today.

Talk about ground hog day - the same old unionists taking the small view of their country yet again.

It is amazing how a positive view of ones country can be equated with being anti-another! In a world of absolutes this would be the case, why not wake up to yourselves you small minded unionist bigots?

155

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 10:10:58

143. Homo Sapiens
Ahem, you seem to have missed the point.

It is the Americans who have instigated and promoted this event.
Initialy it had no input from this side of the Atlantic at all.

Some enterprising souls from Scotland are now using this as a platform from which to promote business with the USA.

Why would you have a problem with that?

156

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 10:12:35

162

Bleating the same rubbish loadly abd wearing a kilt does not make the SNP statesmen. It's embarrasing to what thier stuffy, xenophobic, far-left approach to goverment. Thier a bunch of rude slimy lawyers who only wish power for themselves. They U-turn so much I'm surprised you are able to follow them. It helps that they are either in a newspaper or TV show every day, but so is Big Brother. I'll leave you to decide which is less of a pantomime performance?

157

George Mackay,

Dundee 07/08/2007 10:12:40

122 Miss H
Nobody in the family knows the full story of Auntie Jean's adventures when she was a girl. My father - Auntie Jean is really his father - said it began when she lived at Brechin and had a Yank boyfriend from the US base at Edzell. He fell out of his Jeep and was sent to a US hospital near Newcastle and she went down on the train without paying to find him. At Newcastle she asked the way to the hospital and got caught without ticket and taken to the station master. He swore at her, said she was a silly Scottish girl and sent her home in the guards van.
When she got home she went to a meeting with Robert McIntyre who said the English were a cold people and she joined the SNP. She never saw the Yank again and has never gone back to England. My Dad thinks she went to the wrong Newcastle anyway. She should have gone to Newcastle under Lyme where there was a US hospital at Keele where the University now is.

158

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 07/08/2007 10:16:10

All should take note of Eddie Long Shanks post @ 153.

I do take absolute issue with his claim that there is an anti-english theme with the posts from nationalists....but

...Eddie your post should be directed at the unionists on this board. Most nationalists are not anti-english - they are pro-scottish. It is the unionists who need to fathom that Scots are in charge of their own destiny

159

,

07/08/2007 10:16:54
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160

eddylongshanks,

york 07/08/2007 10:18:52

Colin, "It's true that individual Scots have risen to prominence there, but only at the cost of commiting themselves to the UK in precedence over their own country"
But this is the critical point that a lot of posters ignore or cant accept.
Do you see how it gets my goat that the "English" get the blame for perceived woes when Scots have always been in the central play ?
Is it not just easier to blame England ?
If Scotland were independent would these same people now just blame those in Edinburgh?
Scots have been complicit in everything "Britain" has done and you hit the nail on the head - "in precedence over their own country" and you could add "own countrymen"

161

Allan (Glasgow),

07/08/2007 10:20:24

Dougie 170

He's better than McConnell was in his mini-skirt!!

162

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 07/08/2007 10:21:25

Re Dougie1980 (#170) : for his own health's sake, Alex Salmond should probably do something about his weight. But at least people can see we don't elect leaders for their appearance.

163

,

07/08/2007 10:23:39
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164

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 07/08/2007 10:24:24

Dougie1980

Nice name pal but what nonsense you spout;-

"xenophobic far left approach to government"

I wouldn't normally associate xenophobia with far left politics. Could you expand on:-

a/ SNP Xenophobia - a few examples would suffice.

b/ SNP far left policies - a few examples would suffice.

c/ Examples of 'xenophobic far left approaches to government' or are you suggesting the SNP are blazing a trail here?

Please Dougie explain your statement, it's serious and desreves an explanation

165

,

07/08/2007 10:26:13
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166

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 07/08/2007 10:26:15

Eddie long Shanks

Some examples of English getting the blame please for the state of scotland?

Just a couple maybe please?

167

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

amor a la mexicana!!! 07/08/2007 10:27:23

#153
Eduardo mi corazon

did ye get a wee bit droooookit when yon pub wae aw the tide marks marked wae the year of the flood oan the banks o' the RiverOuse in York city centre goat droont?

168

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 10:28:52

170. Dougie1980
So we are going to weed out the cosmeticaly challenged from the aparatus of government are we?

Gordy Broon is hardly likely to be auditioned for the next Bond movie, and I'm sure the lovelies of the Scottish labour benches in Holyrood share the same potential to be the 007 eye candy?

I presume this logic will extend to the boardrooms of industry where the extent of the wasteband and coiffure will have similar relevance?

Who exactly would you have in mind to replace these Vogue rejects?

169

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 07/08/2007 10:30:02

#174 Zoom - having travelled and worked abroad I can tell you that people are that ignorant - even Morris (#114) acknowledges it is so.

You keep using the "getting confused for English" as an argument for independence - what a load of rot - at least give decent resasons instead of this superficial symbolistic crap.

170

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

amor a la mexicana!!! 07/08/2007 10:31:42

el senor longshanks ...zee Keeng Eduardo
Urr ye really Patrick McGoohan?
As in ThePrisoner o' yer ane poor wee sad life stuck in York??
I have been tae York manyzz ahh tiempo amorcito
Es una cuidad muy bonita ... asi?

As regards yer inability to interconnect on a humouros method?
Why did the River Ouse burst its banks again and wash ye aw the way up Bootham?

171

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 07/08/2007 10:32:58

Re eddylongshanks (#171) : "But this is the critical point that a lot of posters ignore or cant accept.
Do you see how it gets my goat that the "English" get the blame for perceived woes... "

I can see that it would get someone's goat, to the extent that it happens. However, from where I'm standing, I don't see it happening terribly much. Certainly you do see people blaming the UK for Scotland's woes — for us, it's a poor arrangement after all — but that's a rather different thing from blaming "the English".

"If Scotland were independent would these same people now just blame those in Edinburgh?" Certainly, we'd be responsible for whatever situation we happened to be in.

"Scots have been complicit in everything "Britain" has done"

That's true. And, although the UK is a poor arrangement as far as Scotland's interests are concerned, some Scots are involved in keeping us in it.

172

European Scot,

07/08/2007 10:33:31

130 Stevie G

There are some gentlemen down South who are quite fond of making the kind of remarks about Scots that might not be considered PC. They usually drive white vans, carry copies of 'the Sun' in their back pockets, and have a St George's flag fluttering away on a roof rack.
These above are based on personal experience.
A trip to the other end of the newspaper scale and view comments on 'the Daily Telegraph' site when the subject is Scotland, independence, etc.
Some of the comments from England are pure vitriol.
The majority of English people are thankfully not like the above.
It's exactly the same with membership of the SNP, there is no room for, nor is there any acceptance of, racial hatred in a modern democratic party.
The majority of members, including many English, simply want to see Scotland become an independent country.

173

Tormod,

Auld Reekie by the Castle with an Ice cream 07/08/2007 10:34:12

So the SNP government want to take a more proactive roll in developing building Scotlands economic, political and social relationships and this is a bad thing how??

If you believe in a strong independent Scotland it's great news again the new goverment is leading from the front trying to develop new relationships and develop current one's.

Business is about developing a relationship first and then economic activity flows from that.

Great news well done!

If you are a died in the wool unionist you will probably want to change your nappy!

174

European Scot,

07/08/2007 10:34:53

141 Camster

"Scotland is way too small to go it alone"

So presumably Norway, being "way too small", ought to pack up it's bags then, and forget about being a country.
Of course it is number two in the World , GDP per capita.
Have you heard of Norway ?!

175

,

07/08/2007 10:35:11
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176

Zoom -,

07/08/2007 10:35:54

I have just seen the light as Saul did on the road to Damascus.

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Vote Labour.

177

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

amor a la mexicana!!! 07/08/2007 10:38:22

#184
ooohh un escoces deuropa huh?
Poor wee 'white van man' always gits it in the neck ehh?

178

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 10:38:41

176

My pleasure.

The Forth Road bridge removal of tolls as it discriminates against people who cannot afford it.

The local income tax as those who work hard enough to earn a bit more pay proportionally less council tax. Disrcriminating against those who cannot afford it.

The "Scottish Six". For it's own sake and nothing to do with content. Because regardless of wether a story about a sheep in Inverness is news worthy, we should be allowed to hear about it in Scots.

The specific hostility towards the Westminster administration and it's surpression of Scotlands "ambition" not individuals ambtion.

I agree that xenophobia is more a trait with the far-right but the SNP are quite unique in managing to combine the worst aspects of both postions into one party. Quite an achievement. I could go on but I'm working. Maybe others can provide you with examples.

179

Stevie G,

07/08/2007 10:39:37

175. Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

You're still talking gibberish and still not funny

And you experience of England must be very limited as Geordies come from Newcastle which is 30 miles north of Darlington and Yorkshire is to the South

180

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

amor a la mexicana!!! 07/08/2007 10:41:04

#188
wid that be Bergen op Zoom in the Netherlands?
So you will vote for the P. v.d.A
Partido socialista?

... que te pasa numpito?

181

BIG EYE,

Paisley 07/08/2007 10:43:34

The SNP are 100% right. Under the Union Scotland does not exist or have any profile abroad and that costs Scotland in terms of jobs, wealth a very great deal.

The Irish have been very successful at merging culture and business into a winning package and the Scots shoudl try to emulate them.

It's not rocket science, having the likes of a pipe band performing in a city at the same time as a Scottish trade mission is there boosts both the cultural and commercial side of the visit. Scotland has excellent folk bands and they should be involved in "Scottish Weeks" in all our target markets.

I've done it and it WORKS!!

182

Florence,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 10:45:07

17 W. SMITH: Now, remind me, please, what were John Reid's political affiliations before he came under the umbrella of the Labour Party, doing so, as he realised he could not progress under his favoured allegiance.

183

,

07/08/2007 10:46:34
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184

Florence,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 10:46:54

18 SALEM: Can you suggest anyone?

185

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 10:46:58

171. eddylongshanks, york
You poor wee put upon English person, did the bad Scots blaim him for all the ills of the world?

You appear to be operating under the concepton that Scots are just plain anti English.
English commentators and one N.Irish one on Talk Sport, yes absolutely, hanging is too good for the likes of Motty, Green and co.

What most of us have a problem with is the Government in Westminster aka Westminster, The City, Whitehall, London, 10 Downing St, the SouthEast, Home Counties, 'England' the Hanoverian succession ie the English.

The very people I suspect most Yorkshire men and women would have a problem with.

However coming onto the forum of a Scottish , I was almost going to say 'newspaper' but you know what I mean, with the nom de plume 'eddylongshanks' that's your idea of 'hands across the border'?

186

Gregor Addison,

Münster, Germany 07/08/2007 10:48:05

188,

I think you'll find you've got yourself caught up on the Damascus ring road.

187

Jolly,

Madrid 07/08/2007 10:51:36

Pilar La Guapita Escocesa


Too much trouble to read this

188

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 07/08/2007 10:54:52

Re livilion (#198) : "You poor wee put upon English person, did the bad Scots blaim him for all the ills of the world?"

I don't think this sort of response is helpful. The business of dissolving the UK will be much smoother if other UK nationalities' concerns are answered straight on rather than with ridicule.

189

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 07/08/2007 10:55:19

Zoom - A wee aside to your being mistaken for English - do you not find it ironic that Sean Connery was described in The Rock as being an "English Bastard"?

190

Pinkie,

07/08/2007 10:56:09

Zoom.... Why are you answering it? ......because you are a purblind parochial Scot still wraped up in old Scots myth and magic and bleating on, and on, and on .... enraged by those whose international comprehension and pragmatism is far less narrow - e.g. you did not understand the drift of what I was saying and just leapt into a frenzy of insults and rage (like most of your kind)...... tee- hee :-)

191

eddylongshanks,

york 07/08/2007 10:56:24

178. Dougie Douglas, Brisbane / 11:26am 7 Aug 2007

Eddie long Shanks

Some examples of English getting the blame please for the state of scotland?

Just a couple maybe please?

Sorry cant oblige _ I dont think there are any that would hold up in a court of law thats why i said "perceived", though I suspect many of your countrymen think differently if you look at these threads, even Wee Alex thinks Scotland is being held back

192

,

07/08/2007 10:56:39
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193

Callum,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 10:56:53

We need more airlines to fly direct to Scotland from the USA.

194

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 10:58:14

177. Dougie1980
Always trying to annoy Westminster?

I suggest you read his comments from somewhere other than the Scotsman.

You should notice that what Alex Salmond says according to the Scotsman are usually preceded with the words 'senior SNP souces said' or 'sources close to the First Minister are reported to have said'.

They can then print any old keech they like because it is never directly attributable but highly digestible for those with a taste for it.

195

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

amor a la mexicana!!! 07/08/2007 10:58:36

onywayes all ahh said wuzz ... lets watch wee Eck and la gorda Nicola "five dinners" like hawks.

196

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 07/08/2007 11:03:46

Re eddylongshanks (205) : "even Wee Alex thinks Scotland is being held back".

Yes, but what does that have to do with blaming the English for it?

197

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 07/08/2007 11:03:54

Eddie @ 205

If you can't substantiate your statements they are meaningless rhetoric

BTW

This is not a court of law

You should retract your statement if you can't back it up.

198

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 07/08/2007 11:04:54

#210 No problem Methalions - my missus is going cold turkey as well just now and she is an absolute nightmare - up and down like a yo-yo - she about took my head of this morning because of something trivial I said.

199

MtnKat,

Oban Bound 07/08/2007 11:05:35

I do agree with a higher international profile and realize that it is an investment in our future economy.
Is the SE supposed to rub a magic lamp, wish upon a star or catch a leprechaun to make this happen?

200

eddylongshanks,

york 07/08/2007 11:05:44

livilion - you are right of course re the name - it was really just to see how many actually knew any history and picked up on it, and also to see whether a dead bloke from 700 years ago really invoked outrage today.

On the first point, only you, Guga and Dave from Barra have picked up on it though I am not at all surprised as despite not necessarily agreeing with you all, I do find your posts erm, educated.

Secondly, I find Wallace a fascinating historical character but dont hate Scots because he sacked York, I just wondered if a dead bloke like Eddy was still instrumental in Scots perspective of the english. A little childish perhaps.

201

eddylongshanks,

york 07/08/2007 11:08:46

#212 Dougie I think you just answered your own question ;-)

202

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 07/08/2007 11:09:16

Dougie @190

That really is quite a poor effort.

Changing toll's and taxes don't count - you would throw the same mud if new ones were levied.

How is a critique of Westminister an example of Xenophobia?

You can't back your statements just like Eddie Long Shanks - long on hot air - short on examples to back up your statements.

203

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 07/08/2007 11:12:23

Eddie

I think most people on these boards would know the significance of your posting name. That it's taken so long for someone to make an issue of this i think kind of destroys your un-substantiated assertion of anit-englishness on these boards.

Can't have it both ways Eddie

204

George Mackay,

Dundee 07/08/2007 11:12:47

My sister Patsy's boyfriend Fraser works for Telewest, now called Virgin media. Fraser been working out where some of these posts come from. He reckons Pilar la Guapita Escocesa and that weirdo who used to send posts from Dar es Salaam have the same address. Also AM2 and -AM2 have the same address. He can't work where Eddylongshanks is but he's trying.

205

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 11:15:25

202. Colin Wilson, Aberdeen

You live by the sword..
What's the idea of coming on here and calling yourself 'eddylongshanks' if it's not for a wind-up?

I am cheesed by hearing over and over how much I hate the English when half my family and my wife's family are English.
My mother in law was from Barrow in Lancashire, my Grandmother was a cockney.

If I say I am not happy with our representation from Westminster, then am I anti-English?
Because that's the only negativity I am concious of regarding our southern neighbours.

206

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07/08/2007 11:16:51
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207

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 07/08/2007 11:18:55

#221

I have a couple of what youv'e just has thanks

208

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07/08/2007 11:19:31
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209

,

07/08/2007 11:21:43
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210

Pilar la Guapita Escocesa,

ella baila como una latina 07/08/2007 11:24:46

#222
Ahh jist thought aboot a certain muscular actor oan a downward trajectory ... as in Tam th'Embra Coalman ... el senor "sin canaria" Santiago Bond numero 007
je je je je!!

211

Memyself&I,

07/08/2007 11:25:45

Maybe we are just too obsessed with out own importance in the world.

Just as most Scots don't give a toss about the goings on in somewhere like Slovenia, those outisde Scotland don't really give a toss about this little old place. We are not all that important.

Get over it everyone. Tartan week is a joke and an embarressment.

212

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 07/08/2007 11:28:39

#226

Poor we us eh pal?

Were nothing aren't 'wee'

boo hoo

213

Dave M,

07/08/2007 11:33:32

162 AJ of Fife

Has AM2 finally louped the fence?

214

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 11:33:35

Livilion

I have read Alik Salmond directly quoted in the Official Report on the Scottish Parliament web-site. I do not rely on the media to provide my information. I'm afraid that I do understand exactly what his agenda is and I disagree. I suggest you do the same for your quotes instead of relying on the SNP website.

I would also suggest if I may that perhaps taxes are a fairly hot topic and are valid in defence of my comments. I would also go as far as to say that critique of Westminster would make most SNP supporters laugh as a description of Alik antogonising approach to Westminster :)

215

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 11:36:52

226. Memyself&I
You might see Tartan Week as a joke but for a good many folks on this side of the Atlantic it is a potential job and food on the table for their kids.

Do you have even the slightest idea of how big a deal it is to have America hold a week of celebrations of all things Scottish?

For example, in context, see what the Irish have made out of St Patrick's day over there, and most of their St Patrick's Day Parades are as Scottish as they are Irish.

Now to you business and jobs may be a joke, but in the real world it is what makes it go round.

216

John S,

07/08/2007 11:36:56

#141 camster

"Scotland is way too small to go it alone"

In the EEC there are 11 independent countries with a population of 5.5 million or under out of 27 member countries.

In Europe there are 20 independent countries with a population of 5.5 million or under out of 45 countries in Europe

217

,

07/08/2007 11:39:01
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218

Miss H,

07/08/2007 11:40:35

Eddy Longshanks

You really are seeing things the wrong way.

Believing in independence for Scotland is actually NOTHING TO DO WITH ENGLAND.

It is not anti English.

I believe, as many do, that the Union is an out of date arrangement that no longer works for Scotland (if it ever did) and that we would be much more successful as an independent country.

That is why I vote SNP. It is not about disliking English people - in my experience English people would be quite happy for Scotland to become independent; they are really not that bothered about it.

219

David MacVicar,

web 07/08/2007 11:44:47

#118 Upbeat
"...a spokesperson at Holyrood who imagines that she works for the Scottish Government....There is no such thing .... break into her dreamworld and enlighten her."

#138 Pinkie
"when we "went it alone" we perished....worthless "causes" for self-agrandising"

#141. camster
Basically The entire post

#148. Royster "but we are the same country"

All of the above manifest a large degree of denial or a level of hopelessness which is frankly sad.

Upbeat - Why should they not promote our parliament as a government, not have aspirations and not push for more recognition? You seem to sneer at any such idea as above our place in the world. If there is a need to push then the UK is not representing its parts best interests.

Pinkie - Again another inferiority complex - How did you even get the courage to post online or did you get help can you go to the toilet unaided?

Camster - A sad post indeed. An example of the "we are too small and stupid" stereotype made manifest.
Bet you didnt say we are too small to trade with you on your trade mission? I am sure telling the Chinese we are too small to run our own affairs convinced them you were a great trading partner?

Royster - You are entitled to your opinion but I frankly dont need anyone to tell me that I dont belong to a country called Scotland especially by someone who comes from another country within the UK state and therefore should know better.

The UK is an aberration it is not normality it is an exception, a historic artefact and in recent decades pretty much bad for Scottish interests, both locally and internationally.
Scotland and its devolved government has every right to aspire to better things.
Scotland is a Country and a separate mix of cultures in its own right it is not a region - get over it.

The union has failed, if it were a success we would not hav

220

MtnKat,

Oban Bound 07/08/2007 11:46:48

RE: Tartan Week: Opposing posts regarding american perspectives of Scotland made me curious. I found www.usscots.com which lists over 40 'Highland Games' for the month of August in many states and Canada.
Do representatives attend these?

221

Maria la Gata escocesa,

muy lejos 07/08/2007 11:54:05

hola
What do you Northern Englanders doo for entertainment then?

222

MtnKat,

Oban Bound 07/08/2007 11:54:40

229 - Dave M - He's informed us he's on holiday although he did appear a few days ago to let us know he'll back.

223

Maria la Gata escocesa,

muy lejos 07/08/2007 11:56:26

normally ... you frightfully breetish chaps never get further than Las Americas or Los Christinos or San Antonio in Ibiza ... you need to get out more danlings!!

224

Talorthane,

07/08/2007 11:56:38

#141 Camster

"3, Scotland is way too small to go it alone. How many of you have heard of Chengdu? It is a provincal capital of Sichuan with a population of 11 million. I was there last month and they run the whole province of 100 million plus from 2 main buildings."

The short reply to that is; "You're talking absolute garbage."

The long reply is as follows:

 Turkmenistan
 Eritrea
 Norway
 Croatia
 Costa Rica
 Singapore
 Georgia
 United Arab Emirates
 Central African Republic
 Ireland
 New Zealand
 Lebanon
 Puerto Rico
 Bosnia and Herzegovina
 Moldova
 Republic of the Congo
 Liberia
 Somaliland
 Lithuania
 Panama
 Uruguay
 Albania
 Mauritania
 Armenia
 Kuwait
 Jamaica
 Mongolia
 Oman
 Latvia
 Namibia
 Republic of Macedonia
 Slovenia
 Lesotho
 Botswana
 Gambia
 Guinea-Bissau
 Estonia
 Trinidad and Tobago
 Gabon
 Mauritius
 East Timor
 Swaziland
 Cyprus
 Qatar
 Fiji
 Djibouti
 Bahrain
 Guyana
 Comoros
 Bhutan
 Montenegro
 Cape Verde
 Equatorial Guinea
 Solomon Islands
 Luxembourg
 Suriname
 Malta
 Brunei
 Bahamas
 Iceland
 Maldives
 Barbados
 Belize
 Vanuatu
 Samoa
 Saint Lucia
 São Tomé and Príncipe
 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
 Federated States of Micronesia
 Grenada
 Tonga
 Kiribati
Seychelles
 Antigua and Barbuda
 Andorra
 Dominica
Marshall Islands
 Saint Kitts and Nevis
 Liechtenstein
Monaco
San Marino
Palau
Tuvalu
Nauru
Vatican City

If you haven't guessed, this is a list of sovereign nations that have populations that are less than that of Scotland.

225

Maria la Gata escocesa,

muy lejos 07/08/2007 11:59:05

my husband is Dutch ... he is frequently amazed it the breetish press and tv and how leetle they seem to know about their other European neighbours ... eet ees very sad your meejah

226

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 11:59:06

230. Dougie1980
Good for you, I had you down as one of those who jump on 'Alex Salmond wears a kilt' and spin that out as another attack on the English and for the quarantine of Scotland from the world ie seperation.


However I have my doubts when your 'official reports' on the Scottish Parliament web site fail to even get Alex Salmond's name spelt correctly.

Perhaps you might share a link to the offending reports?

227

,

07/08/2007 12:01:53
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228

Maria la Gata escocesa,

muy lejos 07/08/2007 12:05:08

try contributing to the system when you come to espana rather than riding roughshed over us.
Try paying your taxes bandido ... otherwise you will get thrown out of our hospitals schools and rehab clinics where you brits normally end up when you come for a "free lunch" at the Spanish tax-payers expense

229

MtnKat,

Oban Bound 07/08/2007 12:05:37

242 - She/he has reappeared as Maria

230

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 12:05:38

oh I hate it when this happens, I 've read the artcle and few comments and I've forrogetten what the artcle was about. I'll need to go back and read it again latter. I'm sure it will be an intersting topic.

See youse!!!!

231

,

07/08/2007 12:07:15
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232

spurtlewielder,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 12:19:53

I would be disappointed if the emphasis moved away from such celebrations as Tartan Week - which could be renamed - to just looking at business and commercial opportunities.

Scottish culture is one of the identifying marks of this country and one of the best ways to 'get the foot in the door' to then follow with business and other collaborating partnerships. One thing that is overlooked by many governments around the world is the informal networking done by their citizens. I am aware of the amount that goes on in the cultural field through folk bands (as mentioned before), folk dance festivals and people generally being interested in others culture and history and being in a position to share their own (if they are aware and confident of it!).

There are many other avenues - often associated with what is termed leisure time activities such as fishing, golf, athletics not to mention the virtual world links such as second life - that help people interact in a relaxed and open manner that help forge lasting relationships. Cultural associations such as 'Scottish societies' or highland Games as mentioned, in other countries are also a great way of promoting Scotland and could be the target of support, not just high profile events.

New Zealand (another wee country population wise) has realised the value of these informal networks and has been looking to support them as important ways of promoting NZ to the world (and Lord of the Rings did help tourism too!).

Let's think about what we have already and build on it...

233

quepasache,

Caracas 07/08/2007 12:29:12

#239 Talorthane you've said it all. It's tiresome to keep having to make the case for Independence, because it's so obvious; but the Unionists will not let go so one has to keep up this tedious stuff

234

Upbeat,

07/08/2007 12:35:28

Earlier I implied that I would try to address the poor misguided comments made ad nauseam by Zoom.

I've decided he is beyond hope.

He wanders the world, -he would have us believe -, grievously offended by everyone who does not immediately recognise his Scottishness.

Then he spends hours each day on these boards telling all who can bear to read his words , that he feels that the people of Scotland are " done down" by association with the rest of the Union. Over and over again ....

He denies the truth that following Devolution the strength and relevance of Scotland's input to the Westminster Parliament has entered a period of transition. We are living in this transitional period. UIt does not need to be rushed. A better system of government for Scotland will arise anyway. The die is cast , and it is up to us all to build on this.

Zoom cannot see and refuses to acknowledge that there are many advantages for everyone in the UK , and in Europe, of being in large influencial alliances .

He harps back to the understanding he has of Scottish historical events, and repeats these versions so often that those reading his posts might actually be excused if they felt the need to return themselves to the textbooks , and revisit the truth.


I don't think I have ever seen a more persistant poster who spent more time talking Scotland and the Scots down, while endeavouring to claim that in fact he wants something better to result from all his verbage and misleading thoughts. .

It's all too sad.

People like Zoom would be well advised to leave this topic alone now before they do yet more damage to the Scotland ...the country he claims to belong to ( while living elsewhere ).

I would only add that in over 40 countries worldwide, I have never found any problem with explaining to those who I have met, where my homeland is, what it is like , and encouraging them to come and visit someday. No aggression , n

235

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 12:36:51

249. spurtlewielder, Edinburgh
Your spurtle has hit right on the head of the nail.

In sales the best reference you can have is the one you didn't need to ask for.

Why else does the advertising industry exist if not to promote positive brand awareness?

Here we have 'the customer' promoting our product for us, where would be the business sense in disrespecting our potential customers.

Some at least want to spend more than on a tin of shortbread or a tacky tartan doll as seems to be the perception of some of our contributors today.

236

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 12:37:38

I haven't had any posts removed as far as I'm aware?

The links to the Official Report is as follows: http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/officialReport....

This provides an impartial account of what your elected representatives say and not what they feed-back in your local press. You may be surprised.

I refer to Alex as Alik as the SNP seem to have a problem saying Alex, ie. Alex Niel is known as Alec, Alex Fergguson is refered to as Alik. It is my juvenile sense of humour/ignorance.

237

qche,

Caracas 07/08/2007 12:39:38

No comment

238

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 07/08/2007 12:40:53

#249 There is nothing wrong with promoting culture as well as business - but what we don't want is some Brigadoonesque interpretation of what Scottish culture is.

Personally I don't like the name "Tartan Day" as most modern tartans were the invention of the Victorians though organisations such as the Highland Society of London. They are as removed from traditional tartans as Rugby is from football.

239

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 12:42:42

If I over-stepped the mark by suggesting Alex has gained excessive wieght. I would like to retract that. I should say he looks as fit as a flea and is an example to us all that healthy body and a healthy mind go hand in hand. God bless bridies and fish suppers the diet of the slim and beautiful.

240

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 12:45:17

118. Upbeat
'There is no such thing as the Scottish Government', what do you call it then?

""..A better system of government for Scotland will arise anyway...""

Oh, 'government'?
So much for that argument then.

241

Musselburghman,

Abroad 07/08/2007 12:46:50

Does Scotland need to do something about its image overseas - yes! Does Scotland get a fair crack of the whip through embassies abroad - no!
Will the SNP establishment do anything to improve the situation - unlikely but one never knows. From experience (22 years abroad) the best people at "selling" Scotland's capabilities are seasoned Scots businessmen who usually have worked abroad themselves at some point and understand the markets they are trying to penetrate. No. 70 was correct in my opinion and his view was based on experience. Not something politicos are strong on being rather parochial.

242

Deasún,

Glasgow 07/08/2007 12:49:45

W Smith, Middle East - Ach well, it makes a change from Reds under the Beds...

243

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 12:53:10

#141 Camster

What an unambitious person you are Camster. Thank goodness our current Scottish Government is showing more initiative and boldness than you. Your main argument seems to be that we should hold onto England's coat-tails and hope they allow us a few more crumbs from their table.

Anything would be an improvement on that!

244

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 12:53:24

257

I imagine you have not go the slightest idea how businesses are promoted by the FCO overseas. Infact they are represented very well through business links with the FCO/DTI(or whatever it is now known as). There are plently of initiatives for businesses, English or Scottish. They do not descriminate. It is a shame that for such a significant period of time abroad you have been unaware. Think of all the help you could have recieved. If you have a succesful business or proposal they will help. If its a lame duck you will not recieve help, that is not discrimination for being Scottish. It's business and it works well.

245

qche,

caracas 07/08/2007 12:56:39

Politicians should follow the will of the people. That's what Putin does for example. That's what Mrs Thatcher did when she went to war. That was Tony Blair's mistake. The majesty of democracy said George Bush. Why can't everybody respect it !

246

Venom217,

Glasgow 07/08/2007 12:56:51

Quite a few removed comments today, everyones dander must be up.

Opposition MP's argue that we don't need a separate push to promote Scotland's interests abroad as that is what the UK embassies are doing already?

3 years ago the UK embassies had to admit in an answer to a Parliamentary question around how they were driving tourists to Scotland, that they weren't.

They didn't feel that it was important and that because London was the capital of the UK, that they should spend their time and effort directing tourists toward this excellent city.

When will the people of Scotland realise that as far as England is concerned it is the UK, and that Scotland and the other countries are only bit part players.

Time for a real Scottish Voice in foreign lands promoting Scotland's interests.

SNP

Sensible

National

Policies

- For all of Scotland's people.

247

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 13:00:08

#156 You forget that Scotland has a very unique character throughout the world. Look at the number of things "Scottish" which are known globally, sometimes without them even realising it.

Independence would allow us to bring these things into sharp focus. This is something the Union has never done or ever will for us.

248

Musselburghman,

Abroad 07/08/2007 13:01:09

260

Whilst there is some truth in what you say, regretably it is often the case that individuals within FCO/DTI posts are selective in what they promote. I have, indeed do, have a great relationship with the commercial staff where I currently operate but have been on the receiving end of inactivity through selective behaviour too. I stand by my point though that the best representatives are the Scots businessmen themselves and that the proposed SNP initiative would not come anywhere near the individuals' success or for that matter the FCO/DTI input when it is given.

249

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 13:02:02

255. Dougie1980
So what has the size and shape of a parliamentarian got to do with their ability to carry on politics?

You may have noticed that but for very few exceptions parliamentarians, particularly those in senior positions, are seldom in ther first flush of youth and suffer the same ravages of time as the rest of the population.

I have heard more than once that Gordy Broon's bounce in the UK polls is in some measure down to his dour statesmanlike demeanor contrasting with the lightweight image of David Cameron.

How would you react to a Winston Churchill figure returning to the arena?

Too old, too fat, and drank too much when he led the country through WWII by your criteria I reckon.

250

Media 1,

cape town 07/08/2007 13:04:10

#239 Talorthane: How many of those nations were part of a union which can boast the 4th largest economy in the world. Or is it 5th?

251

,

07/08/2007 13:08:41
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252

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 13:10:36

267. Media 1
So why don't we go for a United States of Europe and be part of the biggest economy in the World?

253

Venom217,

Glasgow 07/08/2007 13:12:52

268

Eloquently and patiently put.

Is there not something sinister about Unionism and the way that it tries to protect itself even at the cost of another nations interests?

254

Carolina_la_polaca,

Glasgow 07/08/2007 13:18:24

hi
Looks fun this site ehh?
Do you get many ethnics in Scotland then?

255

Carolina_la_polaca,

Glasgow 07/08/2007 13:20:33

I am half Polish half Spanish from Leeds but live in Glasgow (occasionally) ...
What do you guys contribute to the "world stage" then??

256

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 13:21:32

Livilion

My point is proved eloquently by you. I am grateful. You have just supplied out of context, leaked goverment reports by the media. If you wish to know the facts, it is time consuming but you should read for yourself what was actually said rather than relying on others like the media, who occainsionally are slighlty biased in thier reporting.

As for comparing Churchill to Salmond.... If Alex was Prime-minister in WW2, judging by his current defence policy, what do you think would have happened? Churchill did not pretend to care about the country being overweight as was rather less of a hypocrite.

257

Allan (Glasgow),

07/08/2007 13:26:59

Media 1 (267)

For accuracy, the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world. Now, the crucial point is that this does not equate to the 5th richest. For example, China is currently fourth largest but I am sure you would agree that it is not the third richest.

The measure of the size of an economy should not be mistaken with the wealth of its citizens.

258

European Scot,

07/08/2007 13:28:02

250 Upbeat

The advantages of being in the UK being that Scotland does not exist as a country.
Scotland has no representation in Europe or the United Nations.
Scotland does not have a voice, it cannot speak for itself.
Britain equates to England in Europe.
Scotland is regarded as a region and is not even considered as a country.

"A better system of government will arise anyway ..,"

And what pray might that be, what devolved little tit-bits will be thrown down to keep Scotland under Westminster's rule ?
Your criticism of Zoom talking Scotland and the Scots down is far better aimed at yourself. You would keep Scotland stuck in a Union that was never wanted in the first instance.
Scotland in a European Union, now that would be great, but as a country, not a voiceless region of the UK.
You seem to be happy to remain as a 'Brit', but you are actually doing far more damage to Scotland with your support for an archaic little United Kingdom, than people on here who really do care about the future of Scotland, such as posters like Zoom.
If you must resort to criticising someone, try standing in front of a mirror, that would be a very good place to start.

259

Talorthane,

07/08/2007 13:32:24

#267 Media1

"How many of those nations were part of a union which can boast the 4th largest economy in the world. Or is it 5th?"

Well let's look at the country in that list that is closest to Scotland in terms of population, geography and availability of natural resources.

Norway.

It has the second highest Gross Domestic Product (per-capita) in the world. (UK is 13th)

It has the third highest Purchasing Power Parity (per-capita) in the world. (UK is 11th)

It has maintained 1st place in the world in the United Nations Development Programme's Human Development Index (HDI) for the 5th consecutive year (2006). (UK is 18th)

260

Carolina_la_polaca,

buscando corazon escocesa 07/08/2007 13:34:13

you guys really love to get into scrapes about insignificant garbagio.
The important thing is we are all FIRST AND FOREMOST ... EARTHLINGS
Second any nation state you choose to flirt with is merely your choice in this space-time continuum ...no?

261

Peter McWilliam,

07/08/2007 13:34:51

Tartan Week in New York should be renamed Scottish Week- April 6th (Tartan Day) is usually celebrated all over the US by all the local Scottish societies; it was introduced a few years back to celebrate the Scots' contribution to the founding of the US.
However, the Tartan Day parade in New York is a sort of poor cousin to the St Patrick's Day parade that takes place in March. The Tartan Day parade is 2 hours on 6th Avenue from 42nd street to 57th street, the St Patrick's Day parade lasts from 11 a.m. to approx 4 pm on 5th avenue and is 3 times the length of the Scottish parade.
And here's the rub- the Irish parade has more bagpipes and kilts than the Scottish one, and, sad to say, a lot of the bystanders at the Scottish parade are not that sure that it is Scottish- I had heard comments that they thought it was yet another Irish parade. ( also hate to say it, but a lot of Irish Americans are convinced the kilt and the Great Highland bagpipe are Irish) Regrettably the word Tartan is not synonymous with things Scottish here where tartan is commonly referred to as plaid.

And the Declaration of Arbroath- I can guarantee you that 99.99% of the population here have never heard of it nor its connection to the Declaration of Independence. Another sad truism.

However, Scotland is effectively promoted here in the US through the hundreds of Highland Games, some of them lasting 2-4 days and are quite massive, others far smaller but equally effective in the areas where they are held.

And not just the games- there are Burns nights held throughout the US, St Andrew's dinners, ceilidhs and so on.

So, if Scotland is wanting to get the recognition it deserves, it has to distance itself from things UK, Irish and the word Tartan.

Make it Scottish Tartan week in NewYork, if anything and do something about tourism- the Travel sections of newspapers in summer here have plenty to say about London, England and Ireland with little mention o

262

Carolina_la_polaca,

boy toys for wee boys ...no? 07/08/2007 13:36:51

economics is drivel ... politics ... pretty much hot air too.
Scotland is/was a country of fine scientists and engineers ... i.e. people who actually make things happen
... rather than just push things around ...no?

263

Publius,

London 07/08/2007 13:38:01

#277 Methalions and others.
There is a very serious point here. Alex Salmond is overweight. So is Gordon Brown. So are many other middle aged Scots males. There is a high death rate among middle aged Scots males - thin and fat and middle class - John Smith, Donald Dewar, the great Mark McManus and many others. The recent small business report that put Scotland at the bottom of EU small nations highlighted the low life expectancy in Glasgow and other Scottish districts. If Scotland had had the average life expectancy we would have been half way in the list, not bottom.
The SNP seized on this and blamed the UK government and said that an independent Scotland would not be bottom of the list. the UK government is not to blame for the fact that educated, middle class Scottish males like Salmond and Brown do not look after themselves.

264

,

07/08/2007 13:38:59
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265

Carolina_la_polaca,

el mundo ... muy bueno 07/08/2007 13:41:11

so when will folks like the Chinese ... get back to producing goods ... rather than service based economies like the UK & Ireland??

266

Carolina_la_polaca,

el mundo ... muy bueno 07/08/2007 13:42:24

"world stage"
embaressing ... you need to build stuff ... not stupid call-centres

267

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 13:48:55

282

You seem to provide very selective statistics in your argument. You will of course be aware of the lack of objectivity in some of these assesments. For instance who commisioned the research, when it was conducted and what conclusioned were made as opposed to raw data. It is admirable that your points are evidence based and I commend your effort.

268

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 13:48:58

la isla bonita as Madonna once sang

Skye ... Lewis ... Islay ... Arran
the "world stage" is not what it used to bee ... in our atomised "stay at home and get steamin' drunk" culture ... we have lost sight of our objectives ... when did anybody in this chatroom last meet a politician "in the flesh" ...
...huh
...rather than watch them pontificate on the telly or radio??

269

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 13:51:35

#290
Pedro ...

Darien ...?
Was that the disastrous attempt at a latin american colony for Scotland? ... Yes??

270

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 13:56:46

#295
Metha ...
Yes ...
Issues rather than personalities ... substance rather than spin
Real change rather than spin
real policies rather than spin

David Cameron and Blair were the same person.

Shame Charles P. kENNEDY WAS SUCH A BEVVIE-MERCHANT

We want a government who will "bite the bullet" and make important choices not just appear on BBC Question Time and pontificate.
Substance not spin is what we need.

271

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 13:56:58

I mentioned it because of the embarrasing hypocrisy of Salmond discussing health when he can hardling do his trousers up.

294

You should campain for the SNP. You are correct in saying its a dream. The fairytale will end when the English cut off the SNP splurge and then the proper goverment will have to start again.

272

Talorthane,

07/08/2007 13:58:28

#291 Dougie1980

I'm sorry I didn't provide references or the other details you required. It seemed sufficient given the vagueness of the post I was responding to.

The GDP and PPP figures come from the International Monetary Fund, World Economic Outlook Database, April 2007.

The HDI figures come from the United Nations Development Programme, Human Development Index Report, 2006.

In terms of selectivity, which other figures would you like to have seen?

273

AJ of Fife,

07/08/2007 13:59:25

300 ya beauty!!

274

AJ of Fife,

07/08/2007 13:59:41

baws!

275

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 14:01:21

David Cameron is just a private school educated P.R.Exec ... all his tedious "green" rubbish riding his bike to work whilst a Rolls Royce with his suit and Ministerial paperwork follow behind ...
...Insomnia cure actually


Methalions ...
Yes
I too get sick of personalities ... Big Brother

Airheads
Spin merchants
Superficial nonsense and garbagio

276

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 07/08/2007 14:01:54

I care about the Scotland we have to live in, I don't care so much about how we're seen abroad, I wish he'd drop this pathetic national ego nonsense and concentrate on improving things here.

277

COLOR ME GREEN,

07/08/2007 14:02:12

Do you scotch folks ever get tired of staring at your own navel?

278

wattie>x 1,

07/08/2007 14:03:49

Andie Stewart singing *My Hameland* say's it all! Any Scot; wherever he may bave laid new roots or resides, could be nothing else than be so proud of his Hameland. The words in that song fully describes
our beautiful country and the powerful magnetic pride it displays. We are fortunate to have been born in such a well loved and respected country world - wide. Awareness and enthusiasm of our little country is increasing week by week globally; contemporary Scotland and what it can offer, is being increasingly sought after.
The future for our new generations is looking bright.
Independence can only enhance that future.

279

COLOR ME GREEN,

07/08/2007 14:05:21

Do you scotch folks ever get tired of staring at your own navel?

280

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 14:06:06

Does anyone else wish to ring J.K.Rowlings neck for trying to convince us thru her vehicle for eejits like Blair and Cameron that "Harry Potter" schools (i.e. expensive private ones) are the way forward?

281

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 14:07:38

David Cameron and Tony Blair both went ot private scholls

282

Venom217,

Glasgow 07/08/2007 14:10:19

309

A private Shoe Shop?

283

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 07/08/2007 14:11:14

#307 Scotch is a drink - Scots are the people.

284

Upbeat,

07/08/2007 14:13:27

256 Livilion.

The language is known as English. But we use it in Scotland !

" A better system of government ( small " g"... please note ) will arise anyway "

At present there is no such thing as a full " Government " in Scotland. You know this perfectly well. Much as the SNP supporters and the poor soul employed as Scottish Executive spokesperson at Holyrood would wish to claim it was otherwise.

So despite trying ....it appears that you have failed to score any points.

285

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 14:19:09

ok private Harry Potter schools

286

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 14:20:00

300/301

You ommited that 95% of Norway's GDP is derived from fishing, hence the reason they are not part of the EU. I very much doubt Scotland would match this let alone dare not be in the EU and outside of the UK. You also do not mention the figures in reference to a time-scale as opposed to other countries. This makes it difficult to draw out trends from your figures. Why not compare with figures in 1996? Where specifically do you see direct comparions with Singapore which you mentioned? Having spent time there recently I do not see any.

287

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 14:20:18

we need a government that is decisive ... and will "bite the bullet"

288

Talorthane,

07/08/2007 14:21:11

#315 Upbeat

It may not technically be called Government, just as those in Alex Salmond's cabinet are not technically Ministers of State, and Scotland is technically not a country.

But in practical terms, they are the country's Government and the cabinet is made up of Ministers. And despite the legal technicalities Scotland is a country, even though it is pondering over that final decision.

You can claim that Scotland doesn't have a Government all you like, playing on the technicalities of language rather than engage in the debate. But it's not going to put Labour back in power.

289

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 14:21:29

310

Your doctor sounds like he has a problem if he can't control his drinking and smoking I would be cautious about anyone who can't take thier own advice.

290

COLOR ME GREEN,

07/08/2007 14:22:14

#312 thru 315 I see you rose to the bait which proves my point. At least I didn't spell whisky with an e.

291

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 14:22:26

#317
Douglas old chap
compare apples with apples
not oranges with apples pleeeeeeeeeezzz

292

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 14:24:04

Englanders ... or Polanders ... or Spanilanders ...
je je je je je

293

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 14:24:55

#321
Green is also the color of jealousy ... no?

294

,

07/08/2007 14:27:14
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295

Memyself&I,

07/08/2007 14:27:55

#239.
What a pointless,..err, point you make. Unless you are implying that Scotland can dream of reaching the same dizzy heights of prosperity as countries such as Armenia, Kuwait and Jamaica?

296

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 14:28:29

296. Carolina_la_polaca
The Darien Scheme was a project previously abandoned by Spain, because of war with England, to link the Atlantic with the Pacific over a 50mile landbridge.

It removing the need to travel thousands of miles through some of the most treacherous seas on the globe down around the sub arctic Tierra del Fuego.

Later the French upgraded the landbridge to a canal, to eliminate the need to dock and unload ships, but their project engineers underestimated the logistics required and the capabilty of technology available to them at the time.

It was brought to fruition by the USA in the earliy part of the 20th century, 200 years after the modest Scottish project was spiked by the 'British' Queen Anne and the English East India Company.

The economy of the Republic of Panama is based on the traffic through the Panama Canal for which ships today pay $millions to use each trip.

In fact the USA created the nation of Panama to facilitate the building of the canal.

A case of what might have been.

297

,

07/08/2007 14:29:06
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298

,

07/08/2007 14:32:19
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299

Talorthane,

07/08/2007 14:32:43

#317 Dougie1980

Who's being selective now.

"You ommited that 95% of Norway's GDP is derived from fishing, hence the reason they are not part of the EU. "

I didn't omit this or any other fact, as that is a conscious act. I didn't go into detail, though, which was passive.

However, I don't don't believe this 95% of GDP from fishing claim. Do you have a reference?

"I very much doubt Scotland would match this let alone dare not be in the EU and outside of the UK."

That is speculative. At the moment, while Scotland isn't yet confident enough to leave the UK, you are of course correct. But once it makes that first move, who knows. Whatever is right for Scotland is what Scotland will decide, because it will have the ability to make its own decisions.

"You also do not mention the figures in reference to a time-scale as opposed to other countries. This makes it difficult to draw out trends from your figures. Why not compare with figures in 1996?"

I used the most recently available figures, as I believe is the fairest approach. To have selceted 1996, or any other year would have been selective.

"Where specifically do you see direct comparions with Singapore which you mentioned? Having spent time there recently I do not see any."

I made no mention of Singapore other than to include it in the list of sovereign nations with populations less than Scotland.

Why did you mention Singapore?

300

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 14:34:03

315. Upbeat
Here's a link to Scottish Government with a big 'G' just googled at random.
http://www.scottishlaw.org.uk/scotlaw/scotorgsgov.html

I claim my point.

301

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 14:34:13

322

I fail to undersatnd your fruit reference?

302

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 14:34:52

#327
what ever happened to General Noriega?
He was the "rendition flight" as in the 'mother of all CIA Kidnappings'
... to get him to prison in the US of A.

303

Carolina_la_polaca,

searching for CalMacistan on the map 07/08/2007 14:37:38

Dougie1980

I simply meant contrast and compare like with like not like with not like
... a with a
not ...
... a with z

304

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 14:38:53

#250 Upbeat

Events are passing you by and you seem blissfully unaware of the fact. Scotland has started a journey that will lead to independence within a few shorts years. There is no doubt about that and no matter how much you try to make the case for the benefits of the Union, most people can see that they are far out-weighed by the benefits of going it alone.

Enjoy your state of denial!

305

Maria la Gata escocesa,

amor a la mexicana!!! 07/08/2007 14:42:05

ahh all the same folk still here huh?

306

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 14:42:17

It is not selective to compare figures from a previous period to give a reference. The figure of 95% was one I obtained in a Uni thesis in 2002 from a North Atlantic Symposium, I do not have the reference to hand. It would not have been selective for you to go into detail of economies since that is the comparison you are making it would be quite valid and would give the reader more information. If you provide accurate information I doubt you will be seen as biased purely on that. Your slant on those figures may not afford you the same impartiality.

"When Scotland becomes independent" come, come now Thalortane, let us not be too hasty about a minority of the population wishing against the odds and the majority.

I mention Singapore as it is a comparable small population who are highly educated, have a high quality of living and have achieved amazing prosperity in the last 40-50 years after leaving Malaysia. The Scottish are very far from having the same ideals and work ethic to achieve this, a minority who do and are succesful would not be enough to carry the rest of the bone idle passengers.

307

Allan (Glasgow),

07/08/2007 14:42:57

Dougie 317

In as much as it is legitimate to undertake a comparison of two nations, the choice of Scotland and Norway is valid. Both have similar populations, similar resources and similar geographic positions.
The fact that this nation is significantly wealthier to Scotland (and the UK) should be a legitmate question to be asked whether you are of a Unionist or Nationalist persuasion.

As for your 95% of Norwegian GDP comes from fishing that is just absolute nonsense.

308

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 14:43:14

317. Dougie1980
You are miles out according to the CIA factbook on Norway for 2006:

GDP - composition by sector
agriculture: 2.3%
industry: 41.4%
services: 56.3% (2006 est.)

Labor force - by occupation:
agriculture: 4%
industry: 22%
services: 74% (1995)

Industries listed in order of value:
petroleum and gas, food processing, shipbuilding, pulp and paper products, metals, chemicals, timber, mining, textiles, fishing
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbo...

309

Maria la Gata escocesa,

amor a la mexicana!!! 07/08/2007 14:43:26

my anger earlier on this afternoon about timeshare brits was not targetted at any particular person here

310

Allan (Glasgow),

07/08/2007 14:45:11

Dougie 337.

I just burst out laughing there. A UNI thesis?! Are you honestly trying to make an idiot of yourself?!

Try reading any OECD publication.

311

,

07/08/2007 14:49:18
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312

connaughtboy,

07/08/2007 14:50:14

#315 Upbeat.

And you would also argue that there is a complete Goverment in Westminster.

Clue: Think Brussels!

313

Walter Ego,

Durness 07/08/2007 14:51:31

What's happening with the Council Tax freeze?

314

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 14:51:32

337. Dougie1980

I thought for a minute that perhaps you'd got Norway and Iceland mixed up, with thier flags being similar, but even Iceland who's economy is more or less based on fishing only derives 70% of GDP from fish.

Did you graduate?

315

Maria la Gata escocesa,

amor a la mexicana!!! 07/08/2007 14:51:51

bandidos britanicos ... we call them
So that is what Scotland ...
And an Independent Scotland needs to break away from when it re-asserts itself on the "world stage"

316

Allan (Glasgow),

07/08/2007 14:53:18

Livilion (345)

I think he worked in the Uni tuck shop.

Uni thesis! That was a peach!

317

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 14:53:20

344. Walter Ego, Durness
Holyrood is shut for the summer, the only thing being frozen will be the tourists without their woolies.

318

Lock,

07/08/2007 14:53:59

Re: Norway,

http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/countries...

Also please remember that nominal GDP per head is NOMINAL, not REAL, so does not take into account cost of living. The PPP index is theoretically more useful but full of estimations and assumptions.

Personally I would rather live in a country where I can choose how I spend my own money rather than have a government spend it on my behalf.

319

Talorthane,

07/08/2007 14:54:14

#337 Dougie1980

"The figure of 95% (of Norway's GDP coming from fishing) was one I obtained in a Uni thesis in 2002 from a North Atlantic Symposium, I do not have the reference to hand."

Try this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Norway

Norway

GDP by Sector

Agriculture: 2.3%
Industry: 41.4%
Services: 56.3%

Even if we pretend that Norway has no petroleum and gas, food processing, shipbuilding, pulp and paper products, metals, chemical, timber, mining, or textiles industries, then it is still clear that the 95% figure is completely absurd.

320

Upbeat,

07/08/2007 14:55:02

319 Talothane and others who have responded to #250.

The reason it is not a " Government" is because it does not ' Govern' Scotland. It is a Parliamentary Executive...in that it administers certain aspects of daily life in Scotland, and can legislate on these issues.

So 'Scottish Parliament' or' Scottish Executive 'are the correct terms.
It would be reassuring if the employees of the Parliament were careful enough with their choice of words..That some can't says volumes about the standard of person employed there. ..

Talorthane imagines I have not been involved in this debate for months.......Oh dear ! he /she must be new here !

Zoom...you will never find any of my posts that talk Scotland down, as yours repeatedly appear to. I do not labour, over and over again, the same tried points. I do not revisit history with rose tinted glasses, or continually view Scotland as if the bottle is half empty.

Scotland is a vibrant , outward looking and thriving place. It is a tremendous destination for people to visit on Holiday, It has world class universities, and world class intellect within the staff of them. Scottish engineers and entrepreneurs are to be found all over the world engaged in huge projects, Scottish trained Doctors are to be found throughout health services everywhere.We have world renowned artists , a hugely respected military tradition, and the public perception worldwide of Scottish culture is something that many states around the world would be very envious of .

I grow tired of hearing the repetitive view that Scotland has never gained as part of the Union. Gained in comparison with what standard.... exactly ?
I was amazed when in the middle of Australia to find Scottish made rails and ties ...made between the war , littering the goods yards. I have found Victorian age Scottish made machinery littering scrapyards some still in use from East Africa to the Caribbean, from the Antipodes to the f

321

Walter Ego,

Durness 07/08/2007 14:56:55

348

Thank you livilion. Is there not a Woolies on Princes Street?

322

Carolina_la_polaca,

amor a la mexicana!!! 07/08/2007 14:58:13

what on Earth has Norway got to do with all this really?/
Is it a Monty Python sketch?
You know the one about the Trondheim Hammer-Dance

323

Carolina_la_polaca,

suelta me papa ... por favor senor 07/08/2007 15:01:33

oy oy oy
Its awfy repetitive in here

324

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 15:01:42

All getting very excited.

The fact that you fire back with a CIA publication? And wikipedia (an online blog) should have roused equal laughter. You can get as pent up as you wish about 95%. I should have put in caveats before providing a figure. However you have not qualified your point about the comparison. Agriculture, Industry and Services is not really and end to the matter. I suppose we aren't going to mention the level of tax in Norway?

325

Skatedad,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 15:03:20

#4. CRAGman, Capital city Edinburgh.
McEwans 80 shilling is no more!! It died last year when the Caledonian brewery tried to copy the original and came up with the usual Caley pi*h!!!
Try the Stewart's 80 shilling in the Diggers,it's no bad!

326

Carolina_la_polaca,

suelta me papa ... por favor senor 07/08/2007 15:04:03

#352
more like "woolie thinking on the Scotsman chatroom"

Lets get back to the "world stage" bit huh?

327

Upbeat,

07/08/2007 15:05:48

331 Livilion.

No, you ducked out again.

" Scottish Government" ie the governing /administering of Scotland is a truth.

But...." The Scottish Government " does not exist. There is no such single entity.

328

AJ of Fife,

07/08/2007 15:06:43

Daft Dougie 1980#317,

ref ma posts 300/301 - yer bang on sunshine, a never mentioned aw that p*sh you're talkin' aboot!!!

You on smack or sumhin'?

329

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 15:07:02

Surely we also have more of the resources you mention as part of the UK rather than jsut Scotland as this includes more physical land and greater population?

Are you going to shoot me down with a Coca Cola economic breakdown of the pharmaceuticals?

330

Skatedad,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 15:07:13

#352. Walter Ego, Durness

Sorry it's a "Bugger King" now!!

331

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 15:08:15

359

Try in English.

332

Pictus,

Ingleside 07/08/2007 15:08:37

#313 - "Scotch is a drink - Scots are the people"
Only true in recent times. As a boy, I was 'Scotch' but then the purists got us. Think of all the place names - Scotch Corner (Yorkshire), Scotch Fort (Prince Edward Island), The Scotch Line (Ontario) and on and on. The drink was 'whisky' or 'uisge beatha'.

333

Allan (Glasgow),

07/08/2007 15:10:05

355

Personally I was laughing at your Uni reference. I said to go and read any OECD bulletin to find out about Norway.

As i stated previously, Uni thesis boy, in as much as 2 nations can be compared on an economic basis it is Scotland and Norway due to population, geographic location and natural resource. The wealth difference is a fascinating debate.

And what of the level of tax? Yes, they pay more as they earn more. Their choice. They still manage to have the best standard of living on the planet.

334

Upbeat,

07/08/2007 15:12:21

335 & 342. connaughtboy.

In denial..no not me. It's just that I have a different scale of agenda to the one you so obviously expect .

The danger of attempting to catagorise people you meet here is very real. Take care ;-)

I see Scotland moving forward because this is now possible. I do not see the tearing down of existing ties , and working relationships as a precursor to this process. I expect a gradual evolution to occur, one which builds on strengths and incorporates reforms chosen by the Scottish people, Refroms selected from a wide and considered study of all practical alternatives.

Not what you wanted to hear perhaps. But then you have only yourself to blame if you don't pay sufficient attention to the posts of Upbeat .

335

,

07/08/2007 15:13:10
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336

Walter Ego,

Durness 07/08/2007 15:13:49

361

Bad news Skatedad. I always got my pencils there.

337

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 15:13:53

355. Dougie1980
How about we consult the Norwegians?
They put the figure at 5%.
What caviats bring this up the oher 90%.
http://www.ssb.no/norge_en/primar_en.pdf

338

Walter Ego,

Durness 07/08/2007 15:14:52

357

Carolina, stop the fake seriousness. I know who you are.

339

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 15:20:15

357. Carolina_la_polaca
Let's not.

I have no interest in Spanish time share or the politics of Spanish pubs.
You are an irritation and irrelevant.

Go away and troll someone else.

340

,

07/08/2007 15:21:36
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341

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 15:23:11

#355. Dougie1980
368. livilion
Sorry I correct myself, 5% of exports not even GDP

342

Carolina_la_polaca,

suelta me papa ... por favor senor 07/08/2007 15:23:55

#370
livi
my opinion in this chatroom is just as valid as your own

343

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 15:23:59

364

Norway does not simply pay slightly higher taxes and it is rather disingenuous to suggest that Scotland, if independent, would be keen to pay even more taxes.

368

You have done well to question my figure and I accept it as being incorrect. I do still propose that thier GDP is based largely on fishing inspite of the figure being less than 95%. I disagree that it is only 5% but no doubt you will prove me wrong.

The bigger picture is that Scotland is not close in anyway to Norway reagrdless of indpendence and all the flag waving and renouncing of the UK will not bring us closer.

344

Media 1,

cape town 07/08/2007 15:24:19

I would like the SNP to review the anthem. I would dearly love for Scotland to have an anthem that we could bring to the world.

An anthem that celebrates our pride, our talent in innovation and poetry, our landscape and our great cities. An anthem that celebrates our bad weather and our humour. A song about Scotland and Scotland only, that is something I would dearly love to see.

345

Carolina_la_polaca,

suelta me papa ... por favor senor 07/08/2007 15:26:45

and yes Livi
it is relevant a lot of these timeshare bandidos are SCOTS
Not just the London criminal fraternity you know.
Its about Scotland on the "World stage" ... remember????

346

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 15:27:51

373. Carolina_la_polaca
This isn't a chat room.
You're lost, check the story and then look at the string.

Do you make a habit of standing at bus shelters, after too many Spanish beers, and insist on asking the bus queue if they're all right?

347

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 15:27:53

If you admire the country can you not send yourself to enjoy the delightful standard of living and come back when Scotland is more favourable to you? Most people enjoy the place already. Note that the majority did not vote for the SNP (indpependence) party.

348

Carolina_la_polaca,

suelta me papa ... por favor senor 07/08/2007 15:29:51

An independent Scotland will have to clean up the image of the Scots abroad.
Selling Timeshare in Spain or anywhere else is a rip-off
These crooks whether they are Scots; English; Welsh or Northern Irish need to be brought before the criminal courts
... PRONTO.

349

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 15:32:32

375. Media 1, cape town
What's wrong with the one you've got:
Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika?

350

Carolina_la_polaca,

suelta me papa ... por favor senor 07/08/2007 15:33:53

#377
dearest livilion
This is relevant ... on the "World stage"
People in Spain and elsewhere can't stand tax-evading krims who rip honest "suckers" off for outrageous profit ... whilst not contributing to or /paying for the services the local tax-payer provides
It is relevant my dear actually

351

Allan (Glasgow),

07/08/2007 15:34:02

Dougie 374,

Scots may choose to pay more tax for services or they may not. Point is, it would be their choice.

As for 378, now you resort to nonsense. What is wrong with questioning why a neighbouring nation with similar characteristics is so much wealthier. Are Unionists not allowed to question?

Most of the UK population didn't vote for the Labour Govt either. Your point is?

352

AJ of Fife,

07/08/2007 15:35:04

Daft Dougie#374,

Despite you being on a higher intellectual plane inaw that, yer spelling is stinking pal!!! Ever thought aboot night classes ya bam?!!!!

353

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 15:35:05

380

Would you care to mention how much the Norweigens pay in tax?

354

Media 1,

cape town 07/08/2007 15:37:54

#380 Livion: My point exactly, the South African anthem is a celebration about SA and its people. There is no mention of old wars and past hatred, its all about peace and unity. Its about celebrating SA for its positives and I would dearly love it if my country Scotland, had an anthem we could call our own.

355

Carolina_la_polaca,

suelta me papa ... por favor senor 07/08/2007 15:38:19

#384
Dougie1980
well at least they pay tax for the services they use
... the point is that Scottish krims selling Timeshare do not

356

streetwise,

somewhere in my head. 07/08/2007 15:38:44

Can anybody tell me how Scotland will benifit from the 2012 olympics in London,how Scotland benifits from the high security costs in London,how we benifited from the London dome,does Scotland need the royal family,and to much more to continue with, read the Mcrone report of 1975,supressed by the then labour goverment ,wonder what would have happened if the people of Scotland had access to that report back in 1975.

357

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 15:39:53

383

Mine isn't perfect but I at least get close. Put your last sentence in a spell-checker and see how you get on. I'm not your "pal".

382

My point is that the SNP are a protest vote which is now over since TB has left office. The people have made thier point and will vote for a proper administration given the next chance at both Scottish and UK levels.

358

Carolina_la_polaca,

suelta me papa ... por favor senor 07/08/2007 15:40:25

media1
how about:
"We are so submissive ... ohh set us free
we so submissive don't you agree?"

359

Carolina_la_polaca,

suelta me papa ... por favor senor 07/08/2007 15:41:28

sung to the tune of: "Flower of Scotland" of course!!

360

,

07/08/2007 15:45:23
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361

AJ of Fife,

07/08/2007 15:50:50

Daft Dougie#388,

I think you'll find every word in my post is 100% correct!!! I designed it to be just so, but you on the other hand, are an arrogant and self applauding self pleasurer!!!

I think that just about sums you up....PAL!!!!

362

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 15:55:13

391

If you're so upset why not go to the police or a lawyer as opposed to labouring a slightly irelevent point on here?

363

Allan (Glasgow),

07/08/2007 15:56:11

388 Dougie,

So the SNP are a protest vote? Oh right, I hadnt realised that you knew the reasons behind every voter in Scotland and why they voted that way. Unreal. I could equally argue that Labour 97 was a protest vote. Or Thatcher 79. Strangely, they both got re-elected which looking at opinion polls the SNP will do as well.

So we will get a real adminstration will we? Like the ones that brought us illegal wars or previously economic chaos? What real administration would that be? Or do you mean Jock Whatischops or probable replacement hysterical nursery rhyme Alexander? Yeah, they look awesome

364

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 15:59:21

393

Good to hear it.

392

100% in what sense? So you affect writing like you left school at 6 to prove a point? How does that make a point about me? If I try not write like an idiot I am "self-applauding". You should note that you aren't too modest with your personal attacks either.

Well done on using spell-check before you cut and paste. Keep it up :)

365

Peter McWilliam,

07/08/2007 15:59:27

Carolina la Polaca, me parece que estas muy loquita.
Tal vez deberias escribir tu tontera en castellano ya que en ingles tus comentarios no tienen ningun sentido.

366

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 16:00:06

#383. AJ of Fife: It's no his fault he canney spell. He ignores everthing I say and talks pure mince and I've therefore came to the conclusion that he went to school with me. Explains the spelling eh, a lot of my classmates had problems with their spelling.

367

Dougie1980,

07/08/2007 16:01:23

395

Yes they are a protest I'm afraid they will not be back for a second term with thier freebie short-term policies. Good luck though.

368

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 16:01:45

374. Dougie1980
""...I do still propose that thier GDP is based largely on fishing inspite of the figure being less than 95%. I disagree that it is only 5% but no doubt you will prove me wrong...""

"This is Norway"
- What the figures say
Revised edition 2006
Few employees – economically important

The aquaculture industry employs more than 4 000 people, working in some 1700 fish farms.
However, its economic significance is far greater.
The first-hand value of the fish farming industry amounted to as much as traditional fisheries – i.e. more than NOK11 billion.

The total export value of fish and fish products was approximately NOK 28billion in 2004.
Exports of fish therefore account for 5 per cent of total export revenues. Exports of farmed fish represent about a third of fish exports.

In 2004 the total value added (~GDP)amounted to
NOK 1717 billion
export value of fish and fish products was approximately
NOK 28 billion

You do the arithmetic.

You are wrong you are KON 1631 billion short
btw the exchange rate is about 11.7KON to the £.

369

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 16:04:04

#395. Allan (Glasgow): Apsaoulty amasing, it has just dawned on me that 79 is 97 in revese, no wonder we can hardly tell the diffrence between the tories and the Labour party.

370

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 16:05:12

399. Dougie1980
Well you'll need to hope your poll predictions are a bit better than your Economics/geography.

371

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 16:15:24

#399. Dougie1980: You don't know very much a bout politics pal!!!

"short-term policies" I will enlighten you by saying that all potical partys go for the short term benfits over the long term gains. The tories did it, the labour party did it/ doing it and the Lib dems would do it if they were ever given the chance.

I've noticed being a graduate and listein realy quite closly to the SNP about dumping student debt, and it would appear to me that this shows a very promising long term gain to the Scottish community.

They also show promising possible long term gais in health.


P.S. Most Westminster goverments are scared s&^$* less over doing long term gains over short term benfits because it's the short term benfits which that make them look good and if they were to be chuck out of power the creadit of long term benfits if NOT changed would go to the newly elected goverment.

You've got a lot to learn about politics.

P.S. Do you rember Mrs Bell & Mrs McMillan?

372

Miss H,

07/08/2007 16:15:30

Dougie1980

The suggestion that Norway derives 95% of its GDP from fishing is complete nonsense. You have just destroyed what little credibility you ever had.

very instructive however was this comment from you:

'I mention Singapore as it is a comparable small population who are highly educated, have a high quality of living and have achieved amazing prosperity in the last 40-50 years after leaving Malaysia. The Scottish are very far from having the same ideals and work ethic to achieve this, a minority who do and are succesful would not be enough to carry the rest of the bone idle passengers.'

This shows what unionism always comes down to - whatever they say, it is a feeling of inferiority that underlies the hostility to independence.

373

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 16:19:57

385. Media 1, cape town
""..its all about peace and unity..""

Not quite..

Lord, bless Africa
Blot out all its wickedness
And its transgressions and sins,
And bless it.

374

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 16:27:07

#374. Dougie1980
400. livilion,
Wee typo there with the arithmetic you are actually only KON1603 billion short

375

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 16:39:42

#410. Methalions: Have you seen any arguments in the SUN.
Or is it no just folk threating to sure for defermation of charicter or was that the News of the World.

I didn't relaise the SUN had a pace to add comments!

376

kinghob,

07/08/2007 16:49:12

What's with the 413 posts? I haven't the will to read the commentary!

377

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 16:51:05

Methalions: This SUN website is pure mince and highly unacurate. I was on the Diet page and type in my wieght and hight and it told me my BMI is 20 (which sounds a bit right) BUT said that I was silghlty under weight (Thats Pure Mince) According to the world health organsiation health weight is in between 18.5 & 24.9.

http://www.thesundiet.co.uk/default.aspx

Don't trust anything you read in the SUN folks if there wroung about this what else are they wroung about.

378

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 16:58:15

Dear Scotsman, The Hearlds website has started to allow hovering (or thats what my PC appears to call it), what are the chances of the Scotsman allowing the access too.

The News is a wee bit more easyer to read with a yellow background (which is my choice of hover coulor)!

379

t.c.e.k.,

south lanarkshire 07/08/2007 16:58:54

Very much so should Scotland promoted to the world The English have been using the broadcasting services in so called Britain to promote all things English for many years, whilst not once hesitating to demean Scotland as can be well seen with their racist remarks about Scotlands "micky mouse" football leagues and broadcasting it to the world. Yes lets promote Scotland and its our turn to show the world the truth about England and their underhand practises

380

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 17:01:23

#414. kinghob: I've never read the SUN before, & its the first & last time I'll be veiwing. I look at a subject that I know a wee bit about and can tell there talking mince, so they possible talk more mince about the subjects I know nothing about like Whos in the running to win BB!

381

Talorthane,

07/08/2007 17:05:30

What a load of fish!

382

Andrew Allan,

07/08/2007 17:08:26

David MacVicar, web / 6:42pm 6 Aug 2007
‘Actually you are correct my Scottish history is sadly lacking, would have helped if it had actually been taught in School but thats another story....
Do you have any good books to recommend? I would like to read more on the enlightenment but especially early Scottish history 800AD - 14th century?’

I’ll have to check around for the Scottish history 800AD – 14th century, but by far the best book on the Scottish Enlightenment is by Arthur Herman, and is called ‘The Scottish Enlightenment’, it will totally blow your mind.

383

Talorthane,

07/08/2007 17:09:06

Oops!

I forgot to address that last one.

#388 Dougie1980.

You just said "My point is..." then said something completely different from what you said before.

What a load of fish!

384

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 17:12:40

#418. Methalions: I was asking what a SUN argument was?
I wouldn't have thought SUN readers would know much about Norway never mind Russia.

#417. t.c.e.k.: Take a deep breath, and remeber that the problem is Westminster, BBC London & daft unionist and NO the England or the English.

Don't let the folk in that offal New Town get to you, you'll have me in tears again. I wish I could, I'm allread preparing my self for an ofal and hopefull very short spell back in that offal region.

385

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 17:15:40

#422. Talorthane: Thats a New one, where that expersion used?

386

Talorthane,

07/08/2007 17:24:10

#427 Eve

Oh, I'm not sure if that's anexpression or not.

I was just thinking to myself that if Norway has the 2nd highest GDP on the planet, and if Dougie1980 was correct that 95% of that was from fishing.

What a load of fish! :-D

387

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 07/08/2007 17:26:17

"#270. livilion, livingston / 2:10pm 7 Aug 2007 267. Media 1

So why don't we go for a United States of Europe and be part of the biggest economy in the World?"

I personally would have no problem with that.

388

Andrew Allan,

07/08/2007 17:28:59

I find it totally amazing that on one hand unionists cry out the SNP are too narrow minded, but somewhere between saying that and now suffer from a brain f*rt, and do a 360 degree turn around and say “SNP globetrotters are unnecessary”, a case of the pot calling the kettle black I think.

389

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 17:33:01

#428. Talorthane: Norwigen Fish must be the most expencive fish in the world to purchase!

I belive you can buy a pack of frozen cod in Lidils for a bout £2.50 and two pises of Salom or tuna for £1.50, I belive that fish comes from the Allantic ocean.

North Sea fish most be more expencive!! :L

390

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 17:34:26

#429. Not A Unionist or Nationalist: COOL!!!

Would that mean I'd loes my stigma?

:L
:L

391

Andrew Allan,

07/08/2007 17:36:11

Not A Unionist or Nationalist., #429.

One small problem there, Scots don't have a say in the matter at present, though if we were independent we would be able to make our own decisions.

392

Andrew Allan,

07/08/2007 17:44:54

Dougie1980., #388.
‘My point is that the SNP are a protest vote which is now over since TB has left office. The people have made thier point and will vote for a proper administration given the next chance at both Scottish and UK levels.’

The Scottish electorate are nowhere near as stupid as you would make them out Dougie1980, we already knew Tony Blair was leaving, and we knew who was taking his place, so would that mean the protest was in some way a protest in the party in power at Westminster, or as many of us believe the whole rotten system mismanaging Scotland’s affairs from Westminster?

393

Allan (Glasgow),

07/08/2007 17:47:38

Andrew (435)

Dont worry about Dougie. He is away sitting in the dunce corner for his Norwegian 95% GDP fishing post earlier. The wee fella has exhausted himself today and is currently reading economics for six year olds and an idiots guide to politics!

394

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 17:51:13

#434. Methalions: Sorry typing error!!

Should have been Salmon BUT my Spelling "Salom" can be the exsotic name for it!!! :L :L :L

395

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 17:54:13

375. Media 1

""..An anthem that celebrates our pride, our talent in innovation and poetry, our landscape and our great cities. An anthem that celebrates our bad weather and our humour. A song about Scotland and Scotland only...""
howzabouts?
Hark, when the night is falling
Hear, hear the pipes are calling
Loudly and proudly calling
Down through the Glen.
Wild are the women to meet you
Staunch are the friends that greet you
warm as the rerr reek
From a Scotch mutton pie.

Chorus
Towering in gallant fame
Scotland my mountain hame
High may your proud standards
Gloriously wave!
Land of the hill and heather
Land of the awful weather
Land where the midges gather -
Scotland the brave'

Far off in floodlit places
glowing are the Scottish faces
Yearning to feel the kiss
Of sweet Scottish rain.
From where cup ties are beaming,
Hear Scottish voices screaming,
Hoping Longing dreaming
for a goal once again

396

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 17:58:48

#438. Richard: I'm begining think some of the unionist (hard core wans) must have some sort of chip in there brains which makes, them swhich off when they hear something that goes totaly against them.


<*****>

397

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 18:03:14

#441. livilion: Sory I've heard better versions!!!

398

Aoda,

Pennylvania Wilds 07/08/2007 18:03:48

Yes, by all means inform the world that there is indeed a Scotland and it includes much more than bagpipes and kilts. This a step in the right direction.

As for Tartan Day in NYC, it is a farce. Go to the to the people. True we have clan societies and we do wear the kilt and play the bagpipe and have our games. That is done in remberance of our heritate and having fun. In Pittsburg they have a festival, a culture festival and all the differant cultures partisapate. The food, nation dress and so on. still it is to show ones native culture and how much it has blended in and evolved to American culture.

When I went to school I was taught geography and history, they don't do that anymore. The younger generation doesn't know much about America, or our neighbors around the globe. It is a shame.

As for the Union flag, most Americans think English, there is no doubt about it. Partly for the education our children are not getting and also because of the Revolutionary War and how Britain is presented.

No. 438, yes, at least in the USA. Britain = England.
Please change that!

#429, Not a Unionist or Nationalist. You are already forming a U. S. of Europe. It is called European Union.

399

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 18:04:09

#445. Methalions: Whats a NAGILA?

400

livilion,

livingston 07/08/2007 18:05:48

446. Eve, Scotland
Aye I a bet you have.
how about
Salmond's chanty's leaking?

401

wisdom,

Edinburgh 07/08/2007 18:06:26

Does Holyrood have any plans to link up with President Chavez in Venezuela? The msps in Holyrood could gain valuable experience in sharing our nation's wealth among our fellow Scots and preventing the on going pillage of our assets[oil and our educated and experienced workforce] by US and European companies....

402

t.c.e.k.,

south lanarkshire 07/08/2007 18:10:18

#426
I have seen through the years complete industries IE. two thriving car plants in Scotland, which was doing better than their English counterparts, closed down for the sole reason of saving the English workers jobs. that is fact,and in that industry,steel,coal, shipbuilding,it happened time and time again,and the English workers never gave one damn about closures in Scotland. Sorry but I wont and never will retract from what I say about the English, because it is bitter fact.

403

Mercutio,

Falkirk 07/08/2007 18:11:43

Was at Stirling Castle today to see how the restoration work on the Royal Apartments is going. The Union Flag was fluttering proudly above the inner bailey, is this one of those days.

404

Eve,

Scotland 07/08/2007 18:13:24

#449. livilion,: The Corries version alough not quite politcal correct is Good because they say at the end "Never mind the day is near when independence will be hear, we'll raise a glass of ????? ??? for Scotland the Brave"

405