Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


Serbs to cut ties with EU after its Kosovo support

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 05 March 2008
SERBIA'S parliament is likely to adopt a resolution within days calling for the country to reject all formal ties with the European Union until the bloc withdraws its support for Kosovo's independence.
A draft motion, submitted yesterday by the nationalist Radical Party, is backed by allies of Vojislav Kostunica, the prime minister, and by the late Slobodan Milosevic's Socialists. Together, they hold 144 of the parliament's 250 seats.

The resolution condemns the EU's deployment of an "illegal" supervisory mission to Kosovo, which went in after the former Serbian province seceded last month, and calls on the EU to withdraw it.

It also asks all EU countries that have recognised Kosovo as independent – Britain, France and Germany among others – to annul their decisions.

Belgrade lost control of the province, which has an Albanian majority, in 1999, when Nato intervened to expel Serb forces accused of ethnic cleansing while fighting a two-year rebel insurgency.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 04 March 2008 11:30 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: The Balkans
 
1

Carolyn 1,

05/03/2008 02:34:08
Christopher Hitchins comment- the Kosovars were "treated as if they were human refuse in the land of their own birth."
I agree. With time and economic help maybe Kosovo will get out from under this boot and begin recovery.
As the emerging 21st century Iron Curtain expands and strengthens, sides are being taken in the chess game. Kosovo stays with the US and EU. Serbia and its militias move over to Russia's side of the iron curtain.
2

Finnking,

Lempäälä 05/03/2008 05:54:29
Carolyn quoting HitchEns, a friend of Shahak whom (CAMERA) calls "one of the world's leading anti-Semites," and Shahak's work is regularly referenced by neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers.

Carloyn quoting a hard drinking ex Trot who is critical of Mother Teressa and the Dali Lama.

I've seen it all now.

3

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 05/03/2008 06:17:54
Land of their birth? Fact is that fewer than one third of the Albanian population of Kosovo were born in the province, and that half a million Serbs and other smaller ethnic groups were forced out by Albanian terrorism. That is no basis whatever for the exercise of the right of self-determination, and all the other qualifications for a viable political and economic entity are conspicuous by their absence.

The real motivation behind the move is that independence eliminates Russia-friendly Serbia's sovereignty over the area of Camp Bondsteel, the huge US military base in Kosovo, near the Macedonian frontier. This facility is within striking distance of the Middle East, the Caspian Sea and western Russia. It is no wonder the Russians are up in arms about it, and they are not alone.

The Kosovo question has split the international community down the middle - there are as many states against the recognition of Kosovo's independence as are in favour. As usual, Gordon brown and the FO are toeing the American line without much recognition of what a precedent they are setting. This is going to come back to haunt them.

4

oder,

Scotland 05/03/2008 11:00:20
sorry the west and the EU got this one wrong! they have assisted in the break up of a sovereign state! and allowed an ethnic minority to dominate over the wishes the majority of Serbia, this is not democracy this was theft!
5

bill2,

05/03/2008 12:02:43
1
Carolyn 1

I agree with 3 and 4, spot on.

As usual, Carolyn, you have it completely wrong.

The whole point of the illegal invasion and occupation of the Kosovo region of Serbia was for control of the territory for oil transportation to the Mediterranean.

As for your comment regarding the new Iron curtain, this is being constructed by acts of war by the west; occupation of Kosovo, installation of anti-missile defences in Poland, occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, intallation of military bases in central Asia and the Caspian Basin.

You obviously think that 'self-defence' is a euphemistic justification for the despicable acts perpetrated by those whom you support.
6

Guga II,

Rockall 05/03/2008 13:14:44
So the Serbs want to cut their ties with the EU. That will be a great loss, and I don't think.

It's time that lot got rid of their Greater Serbia fixation.
7

Stefan,

NYC 05/03/2008 14:01:39
#3 andd #4. Great posts. Anyone feel the chill of the next cold war yet? Don't know if we can outspend the new Russo-China bloc. Traditionally, Pakistan sides with China and India used to like the Soviets... Hope they don't boycott consumer goods...
8

Carolyn 1,

05/03/2008 14:37:46
#4 oder
Whether or not it was a 'beak-up of a sovereignty', it was argued for months without a resolution. The simplistic truth, IMHO, is that Kosovo did not want to fall under Russia again and Serbia did.

During that valuable time of failed negotiations Russia and the US went about the business of military build-up in the region. The deal for the defense shield being signed between the Czechs and the US coincided with Kosovo's declaration of independence. Kosovo had to decide quickly. Who's to fault for that? The EU or the UN or NATO?

Just because I see the military build-up and various countries taking sides, and being forced to take sides because of politics and posturing, in no way means I approve of any of it.


9

Carolyn 1,

05/03/2008 14:54:56
#6 bill2
you and Finnking ban whomever you do not agree with, and then delete even the euphemistic writings as if they never existed, exactly the same as the Nazis did in their book burnings and compilation of lists that banned authors. Yes, that's Quite despicable, in my opinion. Therefore, because I do not exist in your fascist world, I'll assume it is with the usual inability to recall the facts that you made the above comment to someone who doesn't exist
10

oder,

Scotland 05/03/2008 16:29:19
9 Carolyn 1,05/03/2008

Carolyn we cannot pick and choose democracy to fit our policy!, the policy has to fit the democratic process this was denied to the Serbs,they were promised that the EU (not sure about the US) that would not support Kosovo as an independent state the west have gone back on that promise.
the west have denied a democratic voice to Serbia over their own territory.

you said

Whether or not it was a 'beak-up of a sovereignty'

sorry Carolyn you cannot so blatantly disregard the sovereignty of a nation to suit our policy that is totally undemocratic, we have assisted with theft and planted the seed for further conflict in that region.

11

Neil,

Glasgow 05/03/2008 16:45:48
The Kosovo occupation agreement specificly acknowledged Serbian sovereignty, as indeed does our signature on the European Security Treaty (Helsinki).

Even were there a significant value in owning Kosovo to provide a safe base for the drug & sex slave dealers & Moslem terrorists of the KLA (Albanian terrorists were recently arrested in the US preparing to bomb the army camp they had been trained in) it is not be worth as much as the loss to us of the entire world knowing that no treaty with any NATO or EU state is worth the paper it is printed on.
12

bill2,

05/03/2008 16:54:51
10
Carolyn 1

You clearly exist, and your response to my #6 is?
13

Finnking,

Lempäälä 05/03/2008 17:12:53
10
Carolyn 1

"you and Finnking ban whomever you do not agree with, and then delete even the euphemistic writings as if they never existed, exactly the same as the Nazis did in their book burnings and compilation of lists that banned authors."

---just for the record, Carolyn (liar), you asked for the comments referring to your use of the name Carolyn to be deleted because you didn't want anyone to know that name. Meanwhile you use that name here.

Still quoting the anti Semite, atheist, dipso Hitchens? Your allegiances are confusing me.

3
Dr. James Wilkie

IMO it's the unsettling of Europe that the US desires. Note that at the time of the NATO bombing the € had been floated on the markets (not cash) and quickly reached parity with the $, cue bombing; not the only reason but a very nice side effect. The current situation will destabilise Europe. The Albanian oil find is a factor here too.
14

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 05/03/2008 17:42:43
#14 The opinion expressed in your last paragraph was shared by a European diplomat (no name, no nationality), who was directly involved in the Kosovo negotiations, and with whom I had lunch a week or two back.

I express no personal view on that aspect, however it seems clear that superficially independent but in fact totally dependent status for Kosovo is the ideal way of securing the future of the highly strategic US military base.

Of course the Russians and Serbs are not going to accept that with equanimity, for different reasons. What is certain is that the Balkan powder keg at the base of Europe has just been topped up again, and the future is likely to be interesting, if probably somewhat messy.

15

maeday,

smalltown, usa 05/03/2008 18:00:00
I don't think it's right that all you 'boys' are picking on "carolyn1".....She seems to be a likeable gal!

"It also asks all EU countries that have recognised Kosovo as independent – Britain, France and Germany among others – to annul their decisions."

Not going to happen!
16

Finnking,

Lempäälä 05/03/2008 18:29:44

15 Dr. James Wilkie,

16 maeday

"EU President Slovenia Recognises Kosovo- The vote brought to 15 the number of the 27 EU members that have recognised Kosovo so far."

http://www.javno.com/en/world/clanak.php?id=129463

Where are all the derogatory comments emanating from the US about "old Europe"?

17

maeday,

smalltown, usa 05/03/2008 19:20:10
17 Finnking

Good for Slovenia!!

What "derogatory comments"? I haven't used one o' them in months:)

I like "old Europe", it's the 'new Europe' i don't understand...
18

bill2,

05/03/2008 19:31:09
16
maeday

Aw c'mon gal!

Don'cha know that our Lords are all gonna let us have us a refeerendum after tonites shindig in the Westermincer Palace?

Then the EU will be kicked out of the British Empire, and we can annul all of those deceasions?
19

bill2,

05/03/2008 19:31:58
ps I like Carolyn's other name better!
20

Finnking,

Lempäälä 05/03/2008 19:36:58
Maeday

Try to imagine half of Alaska becoming Russian while the other half wanted to be controlled by Paris.

It's that crazy.

Also remember that the US aided the KLA (terrorist organisation, by many)who used terror tactics against the legal Serbian government. The Serbs responded (as would the US if a group of tewowists in California started bombing things). The death toll was bad but nowhere near as bad as a)what was going down in Indonesia with US and 'uk' support and b) when NATO bombed the place. Milosovic was demonised in the western papers before the bombing; mass murderer, genocidal maniac etc. but they only charged him for crimes during the NATO bombing. Offers to negotiate (by Serbia) were simply ignored by the 'west'.IE NATO and the KLA were (are) the terrorists. After the NATO attack a second massacre began: of Serbs. However, that wasn't a 'war crime' in the eyes of the 'great and the good', not even in the eyes of Peace Envoy Bliar and Dove "cigar clipper" Clinton.
21

Finnking,

Lempäälä 05/03/2008 19:42:51
Bill

http://markjohnyoung.spaces.live.com/
Blog/cns!CF07D26B99114A7E!697.entry

(remove line feed)
22

Carolyn 1,

05/03/2008 19:45:35
#11 oder
I don’t agree with you- and I usually do!- you said to me: “you cannot so blatantly disregard the sovereignty of a nation to suit our policy that is totally undemocratic, we have assisted with theft...

Have you heard the expression: "sh-t happens"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit_happens

What has happened is democracy in progress. It's never perfect. But it is great.

As for your hard line position: To be inflexible to the point of denying peoples to separate from a ruling authority or an existing sovereignty is absurd, unacceptable and undemocratic in a democracy.

The EU is forming and evolving not unlike the U.S. A unification of states of various populations and land mass, with individuation of identities, cultures and economies each with its own government. Because of presidents and or events there have been times when the Federal government has had more power, there are periods when the states have more power. The framers recognized the importance of having that flexibility. The EU should as well. As I said, Sh-t happens, and because it does, in the need to preserve the union, a democracy needs to be flexible in response to the various warts of the states and world events beyond its control. When it stops being flexible it ceases to exist as a unifier. I don’t understand why you think Kosovo should not be allowed to separate from Serbia. The EU should accept any country who wants to be a member, -size or culture doesn’t matter. Last I checked the EU was not supposed to be the latest version of an autocratic Habsburg Empire ruled by an absolute, it’s supposed to be an economic market.
23

bill2,

05/03/2008 19:56:46
23
Carolyn 1

"What has happened is democracy in progress. It's never perfect. But it is great."

Just like Iraq and Afghanistan, for which Kosovo was the taster? Democracy - the voice of the people - but obviously not the people who live there.

"The EU is forming and evolving not unlike the U.S."

What a vision! When do the natives get slaughtered?

24

maeday,

smalltown, usa 05/03/2008 20:41:22
19, bill

Do ya really think da lords are gonna give the common folk a voice? Me thinks not!

EU kicked out of the British Empire? That's a good thing, aye?...guy:-)
25

Carolyn 1,

05/03/2008 20:42:43
15 Dr. James Wilkie,
I read carefully everything you write and generally agree, however I think to lay cause for these failures, or a toeing of the line with the US is not wholly accurate.
To track back, how, when, why or who decided the US should put in the defense shield...
IMHO, Amadinejad changed the dynamics of everything.

Is it Iran's development of nuclear weapons that has pushed the US to this point of military build-up? Which then pushed countries to choose sides? I don't know.
I do know a very long list of projects on which the US and Russia are working together peacefully, including NASA, space exploration,scientific research, environmental labs etc.
It's awry for the US and Russia to share missile technology while posturing for opposing sites to place missiles.
Simply, and logically, that doesn't add up....and the reason it doesn't add up is because it IS posturing.
As for Iran, that's not posturing.
26

bill2,

05/03/2008 20:44:08
22
Finnking

Thanks for that link.

The government will never allow a vote on EU membership, because most of the British want out. If we left the EU, what would happen to the Kinnochio family, Mandelson, and all the other dross?

If Blair is made President, that would be another reason for leaving (maybe he would take up Kosovan nationality).
27

maeday,

smalltown, usa 05/03/2008 20:45:07
20 bill

I don't know 'carolyn' but you could enlighten me? What is her 'other' name?
28

maeday,

smalltown, usa 05/03/2008 20:52:56
21 Finnking

The 'massacre' of innocents, will continue, throughout the world, until those in power(not just the USA!)decide collectively to stop... What do you suppose will make that happen???
29

maeday,

smalltown, usa 05/03/2008 21:01:56
It's time to feed the 'herd'! Nice debating? with you fine folk!

Carolyn 1, stay kool with these blokes! I think they truely enjoy the banter with you!!:)
30

oder,

Scotland 05/03/2008 21:24:39
23 Carolyn 1,05/03/2008

you said

As for your hard line position: To be inflexible to the point of denying peoples to separate from a ruling authority or an existing sovereignty is absurd, unacceptable and undemocratic


I am not saying that a case for Kosovo to be an independent does not exist where I criticize is that the decision by the west to remove Serbia`s democratic right and impose a solution that is favorable because it suits our policy much to the delight of Kosovars, I have serious misgivings about the west creating Muslim states in Europe and the reason for that should be obvious! yes I am a hardliner when it comes to Islam for one very good reason Islam is undemocratic that's the nature of the beast eternal vigilance is required to protect democracy and there no democratic Muslim states that I can look up to and see a shinning democracy,if Serbia had agreed on Kosovo independence instead of having it imposed then I could support it. can we do this in my country if Scotland votes for independence and the Westminster government says no it has to be a voted through all the UK we make up 8.9
of the population don't have hope of winning in that situation, but if Sh*t happens will the US be prepared to disagree with their main ally England, and support Scottish democracy? this basically is similar to the situation in Kosovo

31

Carolyn 1,

05/03/2008 23:32:35
Oder #31
I completely agree Sharia law can/will cause widespread havoc throughout Europe. Sharia and democracy are incompatible, the HRC stated years ago that Sharia is a violation of human rights but no action was taken by anyone to the point that the UN embraced sharia as a religious freedom. ( I watched with Shock and Awe!) With separation of church and state, it has to be written and enforced under international law of human rights that sharia is unacceptable.
The problem is Europe waited. As for Kosova, it's a secular Muslim country, have they stated different? I haven't seen mention of it?
The EU is nations based on the promise of human rights including freedom of religion; until there's international law, and/or the UN changes its position, Muslim nations should be free to join the EU and/or NATO.

"will the US be prepared to disagree with their main ally England, and support Scottish democracy?" Oder theoretically asked me.
Yes, absolutely, we've got us about 25 million Scots here- not to forget the scoundrels who helped us throw tea into the Boston Harbor a couple of centuries ago and write a declaration of independence soon after. Joking aside, the US will find a way to recognize both you and England and have the courage and diplomacy to do so regardless of international polling. Americans recognize the inherent desire for people to live in freedom, and will help those who need help to achieve it- certainly it's a soft spot that gets us in trouble. Until we elect an isolationist president and congress, I don't see that policy changing. (Unless Obamania is elected then who knows if he'll even answer the phone never mind have courage)

.
32

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 05/03/2008 23:38:54
#26 Carolyn. if there are any culprits in respect of the Kosovo problem, then they are in the first instance Slobodan Milosevic and his Serbian nationalist followers. Their methods of dealing with the developing Kosovo situation were lunatic and a century behind the times. If an iron clamp had been put on Albanian immigration into the province in good time - admittedly none too easy in that neck of the woods - the problem might have been averted. As it is, their bull-at-a-gate tactics simply aggravated the situation.

For the US State Department, with its jaundiced eye on Iran and points east, this was too good an opportunity to miss to get a strategic foothold in the region. Independence for Kosovo (meaning in reality absolute dependence on the US and in part the EU) is as good a way as any of ensuring the permanence of the US presence in the region while isolating their foothold from both Serbian and Russian influence. It as a very clever strategic move.

The Russians have quite naturally reacted with shock and horror at this latest stage of the US military encroachment into their part of the world. This is perfectly understandable, as is the refusal of the Serbs to accept what they regard as the barefaced theft of a part of their state that has powerful emotional associations for them. We have not heard the last of them yet.

I am afraid that the move will do nothing to calm the Balkans situation and is merely stockpiling fuel for the next conflagration. Furthermore, it has driven a heavy tank over the UN standards for the recognition of a right to self-determination. I cannot imagine Kosovo ever in the foreseeable future meeting the standards laid down by the Council of Europe in respect of pluralist democracy, the rule of law and respect for human rights, which are effectively a precondition for membership of the EU and the other major European organisations. The test will come when the United Nations votes on the admission of Kosovo as a n
33

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 05/03/2008 23:42:07
The test will come when the United Nations votes on the admission of Kosovo as a new member state, for that is by no means a foregone conclusion.

34

Richard G,

Canada 06/03/2008 02:33:41
The USA and UK and Europe got this one way wrong. They will not be able to say a thing when Bosnia breaks up. And if Serbia decides to turn this into a low level war with targeted killings and bombings I doubt there will be much the West can do about it. See William Lind's article on this.

"Kosovo: Fools Rush In by William S. Lind"

http://www.antiwar.com/lind/?articleid=12430
35

torontonion,

canada 06/03/2008 02:41:58
serb mob can go crazy as much as you can, commenting in kosovo metter but that is a don deal and kosovo citizen's they are dedicated they life's toward EU integration as for serb's DOBRODOSLI U ISOLACIJU SERBIJU
36

Carolyn 1,

06/03/2008 03:05:09
Of the most admirable extraordinary iconic men in the last century, Havel is very high on my list. This is part of his speech to NATO last week:

RUSSIA CHOOSES CHAINS
Havel: Sounds alarm vs. "new dictatorship."
By RALPH PETERS March 4, 2008
"I had the honor of meeting Havel last week at NATO headquarters, where this lifelong advocate of nonviolent resistance stressed the vital nature of the military alliance.

Havel - the last president of Czechoslovakia and the first president of the Czech Republic - is a very old 71, a frail survivor of cancer and years in Communist cells. But he's as passionate as ever about freedom. The climax of his speech to NATO's military and civilian leaders was a stark warning about Russia:

"A dictatorship of a fairly new type is coming into existence to the east of the area under NATO protection. All basic human and civic freedoms are gradually and quietly being suppressed under the banner of the aggrieved ideology that everybody is doing Russia wrong or that they are all covert enemies.

"The system of formal democracy and one-party rule familiar to us from Communist times is being revived. The secret police is becoming all-powerful. The nation's enormous wealth is passing into the hands of the powerful or their friends . . .

"Everything that is free and has major influence is destroyed in subtle ways . . . Troublesome people disappear or are mysteriously murdered. Political murders and even major terrorist operations are never properly investigated.

"An enormous nation inhabiting enormous territory is lapsing into apathy and adapting to the status quo. It is accepting the propaganda-fed cult of the leader, that is sometimes reminiscent of the cult of Stalin . . .

"Russia is once more losing its awareness of where it begins and where it ends . . . as if it still thought that what once belonged to it will do so for all time."

Havel summed up: "I believe none of us has the right to remain silent and pretend . . .
37

bill2,

06/03/2008 09:46:04
37
Carolyn 1

For once you have quoted something worth reading. Havel is absolutely right.

We would be wise to examine the totalitarianism that is creeping into the west as well; our freedoms are being eroded by the very same people who claim to protect them - our governments.
38

Carolyn 1,

06/03/2008 13:59:37
ooops, last sentence is missing from my post.

Havel summed up: "I believe none of us has the right to remain silent and pretend . . . that we can't see these things. Politeness and falsehoods have never yet preserved the peace."

Moscow never got its own Havel. It just got pseudo-Soviets in better-tailored suits. Welcome to the new, old Russia.

RALPH PETERS
39

Vïda Dosa,

12/12/2008 08:40:04
#38 Carolyn
Good stuff

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
RSS Feed of this article's comments
Delivery formats: RSS, Atom, Javascript & Email
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.