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Britain to sink into £1 trillion debt hole next year

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Published Date: 23 April 2009
ALISTAIR Darling yesterday hit big-earners with a 50 per cent tax rate as he attempted to deflect attention from the worst public finance figures since the Second World War.
The Chancellor announced plans to borrow £175 billion this year and £173 billion the next in a desperate attempt to plug the black hole in his reserves caused by the recession and the unknown cost of the banking bail-out.

He said those earning mo
re than £150,000 would pay income tax at 50p in the pound from next April, while personal tax allowances would be restricted for earnings above £100,000. This breaks a Labour manifesto pledge not to raise income tax, and will be followed in 2011 with the removal of tax breaks on pension contributions for high-earners.

The Conservatives last night sidestepped a potential political banana skin by saying that reversing the higher tax rate would not be a priority. But there were fears that the attack on high-earners might spark a brain drain from the financial sector.

There were also claims that Mr Darling's second Budget was "dishonest", as the biggest tax burden will fall not on the wealthy but on motorists, who face five years of fuel duty hikes, beginning with a 2p per litre increase in September.

This will raise £3.6 billion over the next three years, compared with £2.9 billion expected from the higher tax rate.

Mr Darling yesterday published figures revealing national debt was expected to exceed £1.1 trillion next year once the full cost of the bank bail-out emerged, and the books would take until 2017-18 to come back into balance. The Tories said the Budget would worsen the plight of people earning from £19,000 a year, who will lose out when National Insurance rates increase by 0.5 per cent from April 2011, a move announced last year. They said reversing the NI increase was their priority, rather than scrapping the 50p tax rate.

There was also instant concern that Mr Darling had been over-optimistic with his growth projections. There were hoots of derision when he told the Commons that the UK economy would grow by 1.25 per cent next year, and less than an hour after he sat down the International Monetary Fund said it expected the British economy to shrink by 0.4 per cent in 2010.

The CBI said the Budget did not set out a "credible and rigorous path" for restoring the public finances to health.

Mr Darling admitted Britain was suffering from the "most serious global economic turmoil for over 60 years".

Unveiling a three-year spending plan that will see a £5 billion giveaway this year, followed by £5 billion of tax rises from 2011, he said public borrowing would total £175 billion this financial year – 12.4 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP).

This would be followed by further eye-watering levels of borrowing – £173 billion in 2010-11, £140 billion in 2011-12, £118 billion in 2012-13 and £97 billion in 2013-14. This totals £703 billion over five years, and was described by Conservative leader David Cameron as proof of the "utter mess" Labour had made of the economy.

Mr Cameron said the £348 billion that Mr Darling planned to borrow over the next two years was more than had been borrowed by every government put together "since the Bank of England was first founded more than 300 years ago". He said: "As of today, any claim they have ever made to economic competence is dead, over, finished."

Mr Darling said there were "no quick fixes" to solving the crisis caused by the global banking crash that began in 2007, but he said he was determined to act to prevent a "lost generation" of young people without jobs.

He unveiled a series of measures to expand the work of job centres and promised that, from next year, all people under 25 who had been out of work for a year would be found a job or training place.

Predicting that the recession would be over by the end of the year, he said GDP growth would be 1.25 per cent in 2010 and 3.5 per cent in 2011. But the level of debt as a percentage of GDP will rise from 59 per cent this year to 79 per cent in 2013-14 – revealing the extent to which Gordon Brown's 40 per cent "sustainable investment rule" had been destroyed by the credit crunch.

Mr Darling said allowing borrowing to rise was the "right thing to do" to tackle the recession and bring it to an end as quickly as possible.

"Some have argued that we should cut public services immediately, rather than invest and grow our way out of the recession. That would be the wrong thing to do,"

There was concern that the higher tax band – which will cost £80 a week to people earning between £150,000 and £200,000 a year – will wreak havoc in the financial sector. Chris Sanger, UK head of tax policy at Ernst & Young, said: "The key risk is such extreme rates will deter entrepreneurs and successful wealth-creators from coming to the UK."



Q & A
Mind the gap: Darling faces a battle to balance outgoings with receipts

WHAT is public borrowing and why is it a problem that the UK's figures are so large?

Public sector net borrowing, to give it its proper title, is the amount of money the government needs to plug the gap between its expenditure (current and capital) and its receipts. The Chancellor said it would have to rise to £175 billion this year and £173 billion the next – unprecedented in peacetime. This is a problem as it has to be repaid – effectively meaning big tax rises in the future.

But Alastair Darling did announce a 50 per cent tax rate – isn't that enough?

No. It will raise less than £3 billion over the next three years – a drop in the ocean compared with the scale of the debt. The Treasury estimates that there are only around 600,000 people earning £100,000 or more, and they are the people most able to dodge higher tax demands.

What about growth? And when will the recession end?

Mr Darling expects the recession to come to an end towards the end of the year – six months later than he predicted in the November Pre-Budget Report.

He then predicts the economy will grow by 1.25 per cent in 2010. But his figures are regarded as over-optimistic by the International Monetary Fund – which Gordon Brown used to regard as the world's "early-warning system". The IMF also believes that the depth of the recession in the UK this year will be -4.1 per cent, a more bleak analysis than that of the Chancellor, who predicts -3.5 per cent, itself the worst fall in modern history. Mr Darling claims his over-ambitious forecasts last year were echoed by other forecasters, but the suspicion is that he is, again, being too hopeful.



BUDGET 2009: FULL COVERAGE

Slideshow: The Budget in graphics

Darling bounces UK deep into debt

Darling throws petrol bomb at recovery hopes

Analysis: Chancellor's projections for growth a real gamble

Swinney says cuts will lead to loss of 9,000 jobs

Energy: Boost for North Sea fields is welcomed but detail needed

Whisky: Few cheers as duty rise comes at the worst time, say whisky leaders

Leader: Wait-and-see Budget shows lack of leadership

Cartoon by Iain Green



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 April 2009 12:12 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: The Budget
 
1

RufusT-Firefly,

23/04/2009 00:03:37
Happy St George's Day everyone.
2

RufusT-Firefly,

23/04/2009 00:24:22
2 Flywheel, Shyster and Flywheel, WS, SSC & NP,Rufusville 23/04/2009 00:19:31
IF you are looking to attend a St George's Day celebration today, you might be searching a long time.
=======================================================

Big all day party planned. It is going to be mega!
3

,

23/04/2009 00:24:26
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4

,

23/04/2009 00:38:22
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5

Ronald Penman,

Glasgow 23/04/2009 00:50:51
NEW LABOUR tax the rich?

Your 'avin a right old larf guv'nor, an' no mistake!

Fact is the rabid right wing animals in NEW LABOUR

have left a gaping hole in which the rich and greedy

will pass through unmolested by Rufus's darling.

Tax-avoidance (or fraud as I prefer to call it ) will

simply up a gear, and byepass this shameless tokenism.
6

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 23/04/2009 01:01:10
The time has come to demonetize sterling, ask for a euroloan and start again. Scots meanwhile have created the "ewan" for their new bank.
7

SkeptikScot,

23/04/2009 01:20:17
QUOTE: "the attack on high-earners might spark a brain drain from the financial sector. UNQUOTE

Really? What were these gigantic brained people doing over the last eighteen months?

Also - the BBC worked out that the tax rise will only raise £1.5bn and that accountants will be working their usual incredible shrinking skills for their rich clients, so it could be a lot less. I'm sure they can live with it. It's not like the banking world is in great shape anywhere else.

We're in a serious crisis, let's have a bit less "me, me me" and a bit more communtarianism.
8

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 23/04/2009 02:06:34
-- What were these gigantic brained people doing over the last eighteen months?

When not setting up the Hadron Super Collider they used their advanced non-linear shock mathematics to extract £billions from the global economy and deposit it in offshore accounts. Though some countries do have real assets like modern factories, engineers, scientists and it's only a "banking crisis" for them.

Contemporary astrophysics is an entirely ficticious supercomputer creation that gets people and governments believing in the Big Bang, black holes, neutron stars, dark matter, gluons, leptons, bosons, superstrings you name it. Quarks have been around so long that whole therories have been constructed on them. The red shift of quasars has lucicrously placed them at the back end of beyond forever receding from an ancient past when they're quite modern galactic creations in cosmic terms. Even NASA photographs show this.

With superstars like this, it was a piece of cake to pull off the big SuperSting !
9

,

23/04/2009 02:09:24
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10

urchin,

23/04/2009 02:16:44
So i suppose it will be fried rice and noodles on the menu at Westminster,as they borrow from the new financial monster on the block China.Oh!what bedfellows one chooses in the financial machinations of polotics.
11

steve 1511,

aberdeen 23/04/2009 05:33:49
were doomed,doomed ,broon has let the country doon
under blair and broons guidance the banana republic of britian has been established sleaze corruption lies are the norm from the ruling party who feed at the trough in westminster as the poor are screwed,it is that bad even the hootsman cannot deny it.
THERE WILL BE NO BOOM UNDER BROON
12

Black Sabbath,

23/04/2009 05:36:00
Darling and Brown are about to discover that 40 percent of something is a lot more than 50% of nothing.

Economic illiterates.
13

Black Sabbath,

23/04/2009 05:37:38
#9 your post is a cretinous Marxist rant.

If you view New Labour as right wing then no one is left wing enough for you.
14

terry osser,

morden 23/04/2009 06:15:41
laffer effect
15

FTH22inarow,

23/04/2009 06:40:41
Funny the majority of this borrowing is being used to PROP UP the failed City of London, whatever happened to Market Forces? Surely the people of London should have been made to "get on their bikes" to find work, instead of draining the rest of the country white? As if any of these high earners ever paid 40% tax anyway, all these loopholes could/should be closed overnight and tax avoidance declared illegal overnight.
16

Economic Exile,

Perth, Western Australia 23/04/2009 07:20:01
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Time for those who have contributed to making this global disaster even worse for Scotland and the UK to ask for a loaded pistol each with one round in it. However, that would imply that they have some last vestige of integrity, conscience and moral fibre.

I was hoping to be able to return with my family to Scotland next year to resume work there but alas feel that now is not a good time. Thinking of my kids and the future (or lack of one) that they might have if we returned this year or next. I well remember the mid 80's as a teenager where leaving the Fife school I attended without a place at either University or a job in the dockyard at Rosyth meant the you were pretty much stuffed. I fear that the situation now and in the immediate future is much, much worse than then. I cannot give an adequate impression here of my anger and disappointment at this sorry state of affairs.
17

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 23/04/2009 07:24:37
FTH22inarow
"Funny the majority of this borrowing is being used to PROP UP the failed City of London"

Your assertion is completely inaccurate. The total used to buy equity in the banks to bail them out(RBS, HBOS and LLoyds - only one of which was based in London) is about £50bn. That is less than 5% of the total debt we are experiencing. Also the govt may be able to sell its equity share and recoup some of this money.

As far as your other point about high earners is concerned, taxing them more or clamping down on their avoidance makes very little differnce to the overall situation. Look at the details above - increasing their tax bill by a massive 25% is only going to raise £3bn - tiny compared to a deficit of £175bn.
18

Mike Masterton,

London 23/04/2009 07:34:00
St George was Turkish !
I wrote and asked Boris Johnson (a German / Turk ?)
if he would consider a St Andrew's day in London,unfortunately funds have not been allocated this year for such a day,but would take on board for next year ! my family won't be celebrating St George as such,but good luck to those who do.Enjoy.
19

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 07:42:34
Brown's Brokeback Britain Bothers Big Bank Borrowers
20

akjem,

dundee 23/04/2009 07:44:17
#14

Absolutely correct, Doctor! Not the first time either that raids carried out by Britain's fascist police state have resulted in many arrests but no charges.
21

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 07:44:33
Broon doon
Full Moon
Empty Toon
Labour goon
22

McNasty,

Edinburgh 23/04/2009 07:44:35
As Gorgon Brown sat behind the Chancer of the Exchequer he looked so forlorn I nearly felt pity for him. But then it dawned on me he can look forward to a glorious pension and joining Lord Flukes and Lady Mandy in the Hoose o Lordies. That is regardless of the turmoil he will leave behind him.
Then again, it might just be cheap at the price to be be shot of him?
23

Jimmy Le Pie,

23/04/2009 07:45:50
But as a leading world power the UK will still need to renew Trident to defend us from the Pakistani terrorists that have just been released after the latest botched polis raids.

Face reality Comrade Broon. You and your corrupt self serving party are finished for decades.
24

Phil C,

23/04/2009 07:57:00
I get the picture of Darling running about with a wee bucket trying to catch all the sh*t coming from Brown's shot at economy-wrecking, Labour style.
25

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 23/04/2009 08:05:26
Happy Peppercorn Day Everybody!
26

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 08:05:46
#29

The only lead the UK has is first place at the top of the G20 debt list

Broon loon
Gone doon
Independence
Comin soon
27

Linda,

Edinburgh 23/04/2009 08:07:08
Where are the strident articles and editorials from Scotland on the increse of tax rate buy 25% increase in tax for the super rich?

I do remember the daily tirade by journalists and Labour placemen about a little Local Income Tax difficulty of 3% increase for the very rich
28

Linda,

Edinburgh 23/04/2009 08:08:32
Has the Scotsman got its own built in spell checker as what I typed was not what appeared
29

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 23/04/2009 08:13:31
#24

Therefore are you supporting Turkey joining the EU. It would balance things out and you'd have a friend in it. Pres Obama is up for it too.
30

Phil C,

23/04/2009 08:14:23
Another huge benefit of independence might be that Rufus and his ilk go south to wave their wee St George's Crosses along with their Union Jack Tridents.
31

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 08:16:54
"To be born an Englishman,Is to win first prize in the lottery of life."

Is this still the case?

32

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 08:18:31
# 1

Spare a thought for the Morris Dancers
33

Phil C,

23/04/2009 08:18:46
#38 Big Dave

When was that the case? Typical arrogant self-delusion.
34

TWC,

23/04/2009 08:22:14
35 Linda,

Linda I always thought the mistakes were senior moments or pilot error. I find that words I couldn't possibly misspell come up wrong.
35

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 08:27:41
Dithering Darling Dallys Down Doomed Depression Debt Delta
36

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 08:31:48
# 38

Quite some time ago...

Who famously once said, "To be born an Englishman is to win first prize in the lottery of life?"

This has been attributed to both Cecil Rhodes
and Rudyard Kipling, but who really said it?
37

Jimmy Le Pie,

23/04/2009 08:42:33
Has anyone heard from Iain Gray, New Labour Sleaze's North British rep, on his thoughts about the budget??

Or has he not received his script from London yet???
38

Tim C,

Southern England 23/04/2009 08:46:14
Happy St George's Day to Rufus T Firefly! There are (I am told) a few London restaurants that will feed-for-free any customer named George, or Georgina, today.
Why was the deputy speaker on duty for the budget, and not Mr Martin?
39

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

Holy Rood 23/04/2009 08:47:53
#44

Probably being groomed/wired for the sit in on the SNP Cabinet meeting
40

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 08:49:39
The Holy rood is widely considered to be a part of the cross Jesus died on. It is also name of Chapel and the Royal Palace in Edinburgh, Scotland.

St George was a Roman centurion

Who was the dragon?
41

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

Tripoli 23/04/2009 08:55:25
The dragon lived in Libya at bottom of't lake

Would Gaddafi welcome St George today?
42

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

Rainbow Warrior 23/04/2009 09:06:30
Would Gaddafi approve of the slaying of an endangered species? David Attenborough most certainly would not,

"Here at the side of a lake, in the windswept deserts of Lybia, a creature so rare which is hardly ever seen by humans, lives a peaceful life eating the odd maiden which happens to cross it's path during mating season, brought to the edge of extinction by medieval knights the dragons strut along the shores of the lake when the female dragon's come in to season."
43

Stan Butler,

23/04/2009 09:07:14

#43 Big Dave Fae The Rigs

"To be born an Englishman is to win first prize in the lottery of life?"


It's not clear who first coined the phrase.

It's probably correct though, even allowing for class differences, that to be born in a country at a time when that country dominated the world economically, politically and militarily did provide you with certain advantages.

44

Ananurhing,

23/04/2009 09:10:58
Heading for £1 trillion debt? Aye right! And the rest! £2.5 trillion according to one city analyst.

Not sure if we now have New Old Labour, or Old New Labour, or just plain Bad Old Labour! Sad Old New Labour perhaps. All of Blair's assurances to business swept aside and gone, along with most of their sponsors. Basically all Darling came up with yesterday was to turn on the North Sea tap further while oil prices are low!

You get the impression Darling knows the game's up and someone else will have to deal with the aftermath of this crisis. Lord help us if that's the New old Etonians.

How much longer is Scotland going to put up with the old bi-polar westminster politics.
45

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 09:17:49
# 50

But wouldn't that have depended on which class one was born in to?

A foot soldier's life was not a happy one, let's say in comparison to the Duke of Wellington.
46

heidbanger,

Edinburgh 23/04/2009 09:21:10
Great budget, well at least it fixes something if it sparks a "Brain drain from the financial sector"..

As these "brains" caused this crisis I would like to be the first to say to the Bye bye.
47

,

23/04/2009 09:23:05
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Reason:
48

Stan Butler,

23/04/2009 09:23:51
52 Big Dave Fae The Rigs

A person born poor in England for the most part had better expectations than a person born poor in most other parts of the world.

Not that the person who coined the phrase was concerned about the poor, wherever they were.

The fact remains however that when you strip away the bombastic nationalism there is some factual basis for the statement.
49

Pavla,

Irvine 23/04/2009 09:26:03
What a bunch of opportunists they really are after 12 years of cuddling up to the speculators and carpetbaggers they now jump the dyke.They now want to be seen as the champions of the great unwashed as they desperately need the working class vote as middle England desert them in droves.Behind closed doors they know the debt will be the burden for the majority as the wealthy will reorganise their finances to avoid the increased taxation, in fact on Sky this morning they had someone on suggesting how they could do it.
50

Scottie,

South Africa 23/04/2009 09:28:04
When was it that, for the very wealthy, income tax was 19 shillings and sixpence in the pound?
51

common sense voice,

23/04/2009 09:33:49
tax so high? aren't they afraid of driving these guys away to other countries....
52

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 09:35:20
£1,000,000,000,000,000,000

That's an awful lot of Smarties
53

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

Utopia 23/04/2009 09:42:03
# 55

"A person born poor in England for the most part had better expectations than a person born poor in most other parts of the world."

So does a person born poor in England have better expectations than a person born poor in Calton?

According to the report, a child born in the deprived, inner-city east end Glasgow area of Calton will live, on average, 28 years less than a person living eight miles away in neighbouring Lenzie, East Dumbartonshire, where the life expectancy is 82 years. In addition, a Calton resident has a life expectancy - 54 years - that is less than the average for India, where 80 per cent of the population lives on less than $2 a day.
54

Fairfax,

23/04/2009 09:42:35
Big Dave (59): "£1,000,000,000,000,000,000

That's an awful lot of Smarties "

It is, but it's also much more than a trillion. One trillion = 1,000,000,000,000.
55

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 23/04/2009 09:43:18
This was a Brown budget. Darling was coerced into the old spend your way out of a recession nonsense propagated constantly by Brown. No mention of paring public spending, only landing more tax and more borrowing to pay fro the spree. Mad. We do need to be shot of the as fast as possible. Cameron's speech was cutting but correct.
56

Fairfax,

23/04/2009 09:47:22
Big Dave (60): "In addition, a Calton resident has a life expectancy - 54 years"

To be more precise, the life expectancy of a female Calton resident is roughly 75 years -- see

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/jan/21/health.politics

You have given the life expectancy for male children. Given the discrepancy, perhaps the fault lies with Calton males.
57

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 09:47:56
UK government statistics confirmed in 2006 that Calton had the lowest life expectancy in all of Europe. According to NHS Health Scotland, 26 per cent of the population say their health is not good and 52 per cent smoke, compared with 25 per cent of Scotland's average population. Alcohol abuse admissions to hospital are well above the national average. Also eating away at Calton's life expectancy are cancer, heart attacks, diabetes, drug overdose and suicide.

So is it beneficial being part of the Union?

Seems like Calton got the booby prize in "Lifes Great Lottery"
58

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 09:49:12
# 61

That may be so where you live...
59

Fairfax,

23/04/2009 09:52:02
Big Dave (64): "UK government statistics confirmed in 2006 that Calton had the lowest life expectancy in all of Europe."

They confirmed that Calton life expectancy for males was one of the lowest in Europe. Calton life expectancy for females is 75. I suggest you revise basic statistics, as well as the correct definition of trillion.

60

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 09:53:59
Trillion = one million, million, million

Tri = 3

So that three sets of zeros

Not two sets as in one million, million

Billion

Bi = two as in Bi-ped, Bicycle etc

So that two sets of zeros

Trillion may mean:

[edit] Numbers

Either of the two numbers (see long and short scales for more detail):

* 1,000,000,000,000 (one million million; 1012; SI prefix: tera-) - for all short scale countries - increasingly common meaning in English language usage.
* 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 (one million million million; 1018; SI prefix: exa-) - for all long scale countries - increasingly rare meaning in English language usage but frequent in many other languages.

We are a long scale country...
61

Fairfax,

23/04/2009 09:55:26
Big Dave (65): "That may be so where you live..."

I'm a mathematician in Cambridge, England, and a trillion is indeed 1,000,000,000,000 here, just as it is for the Treasury. Thus 1 billion = 1 thousand million and 1 trillion = 1 million million. I have not seen the old British definition of trillion used in scientific or financial data for at least 30 years -- it's effectively extinct.
62

Isonomia,

Lenzie 23/04/2009 09:56:05
You know if you piled up £1trillion pound coins, it would reach well beyond the moon. Maybe Nulabour could spin this as an English space mission?

Space ... the final frontier, to brownly go where no idiot would want to go.
63

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 09:57:05
# 66

Lets go back to my earlier question

"To be born an Englishman,Is to win first prize in the lottery of life."

"To be born an Englishman or Englishwoman,Is to win first prize in the lottery of life."

Spot the difference?


64

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 09:58:04
# 68

Just like St George's dragon
65

Fairfax,

23/04/2009 09:59:01
Big Dave (67): "Trillion = one million, million, million"

Once that was so, but no longer. The UK debt is (to use SI notation) a terapound, not an exapound, whilst a billion pounds is a gigapound.

"We are a long scale country..."

We were. This ended decades ago, not least because there's an obvious need for convenient names for 10^9 and 10^12.
66

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 10:00:58
# 68

Some say the Dodo is extinct but their have been sitings in Mauritius.

Then there's the coelacanth a fish long thought to be extinct caught recently in the Indian Ocean.
67

Fairfax,

23/04/2009 10:04:28
Big Dave (70): ""To be born an Englishman or Englishwoman,Is to win first prize in the lottery of life."

Spot the difference?"

Perhaps you should add "To be born an Englishman, Englishwoman, or Scottish woman, Is to win first prize in the lottery of life."

You can then update it further by adding a Scottish male whinge blaming their low life expectancy on a combination of the English, the Welfare State, Capitalism, the Darien Scheme, Thatcher, etc, depending on your taste.

68

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 10:05:01
# 72

So are saying that one million million million is not a trillion?

I'm confused now...
69

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 23/04/2009 10:08:34
It actually gets worse.

Did any of you realise that last month Ed Miliband sneaked out an Impact Assessment of the Climate Change Act 2008.

In the assessment he states that the cos ofimplementing this Government's ruiness policy will be as high as £18.3bn per year, every year, for the next 43 years !!

The benefits, £1 trillion (provided we can reduce CO2 levels to the target by 2050) or a big fat zero if they carry on climbing. Insanity. Add this to the insanity of Trident and ID cards and you begin to see how dangerous delusional this Labour Government really is.
70

Stan Butler,

23/04/2009 10:09:27
#64 Big Dave Fae The Rigs

The figures for the Calton are skewed because it is a comparatively small area with a small population with a disproportionate number of centres for the homeless, alcoholics and drug addicts there.

There are areas of extreme poverty in all major cities in the UK. The enemy is poverty and the economic system that causes poverty, not the English.

71

Fairfax,

23/04/2009 10:09:55
Big Dave (71): "Just like St George's dragon"

No, dragons are fictional: extinction requires actual prior existence. The distinction between fiction and reality can be really quite useful. . .
72

Fairfax,

23/04/2009 10:12:37
Big Dave (75): "So are saying that one million million million is not a trillion?"

That's correct. If you prefer, you could regard the older usage as disappearing with the British Empire, probably in the 1960s. A trillion is now a mere million million, almost universally in English usage. On the bright side, UK debt is a million times smaller than you had thought.
73

Guy Wersh,

23/04/2009 10:16:19
Is it just me or does the Hootsmon seem to be turning from the Labour party today? The headlines make it look as if they are. Where will they turn to? Conservative???
74

Guy Wersh,

23/04/2009 10:23:46
Yok Finney, are you blind man! You don't believe in bosons? How odd that you don't see the light...
Hint: Photons are bosons. :-)
75

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 10:24:09
# 74

"Perhaps you should add "To be born an Englishman, Englishwoman, or Scottish woman, Is to win first prize in the lottery of life.""

But then the first part of the phrase would be "To be born British"
76

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 10:26:34
# 78

Not all dragons are fictional, what about the Kimodo Dragon from Indonesia?

Has anyone gone to the actual lake in Libya and searched for the dragon, indeed today people are still looking for the elusive Loch Ness Monster.
77

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 10:28:19
# 79

Are you saying the British Empire is exctinct as well as the dragon?

Some say there are dragons in Wales, although I haven't seen any personally..
78

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 10:30:12
# 79

Although smaller, it's still a lot of Smarties though.
79

Queen D,

Glasgow 23/04/2009 10:32:41
Good article in the Independent by McRae.

I have a budget for the chancellor,
Scrap Trident
Scrap ID cards
Scrap 50% of useless MPs
Scrap MPs expenses
Scrap subsidies in Westminster bars and canteens.
Scrap any and every involvement ,whether legal or illegal , of our troops abroad.

I reckon that would save the country from bankruptcy.
80

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 10:33:42
It's a raw Broon
Budget licht
The nicht!
81

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 10:36:16
# 86

That's a lot of scrap, can it be recycled?
Or will it be destined for lifes great scrapheap?
82

David55,

Edinburgh 23/04/2009 10:42:04
#86 Queen D - You would get my vote.
83

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

Morris Minor 23/04/2009 11:03:08
Whilst often thought of as ‘English’, Morris and related dances were popular (as in England and a lot of Europe) in pre-Reformation Scotland, except in the Highlands and Western Isles.
However the oldest documented Morris-type sword dance is from the Shetland island of Papa Stour, and the earliest written record of Morris in Britain is from the court of James IV of Scotland.

During the 16th and 17th centuries, Morris in all its forms suffered suppression and persecution in Scotland [as it did also in Puritan England], penalties ranging from a 40-shilling fine for ‘dancing maskit and with bellis’ in Aberdeen and Elgin to ‘condemnit ...to be hangit’ in Edinburgh, consequently only the Papa Stour dance survived intact into modern times.
84

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 11:05:31
# 90

There are Morris dancers in Canada, New Zealand and Australia as well.
85

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 11:07:19
The Banchory Ternan Morris Men


http://www.geocities.com/banchorymorris/aboutus.htm
86

I am Therefore,

23/04/2009 11:13:21
now they have lined their pockets, got their second homes furnished, and their pensions organised, they are carrying out a scorched earth policy, nothing will be left and the poor taxpayer foots the bill. For gods sake GO!!!!!!!!!!
87

Hugh Roscombe,

23/04/2009 11:31:25
Happy decimal day.
88

Hugh Roscombe,

23/04/2009 11:33:26
Million: 1,000,000
Billion: 1,000,000,000
Trillion: 1,000,000,000,000
Quintillion: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000
Sextillion: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Nonillion: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Centillion: 1 followed by 303 zeros
89

TWC,

exLabour 23/04/2009 11:52:13
86 Queen D

Well said - I cannot believe the Brown Darling team are still there
90

,

23/04/2009 11:56:49
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91

Fred Leeson,

edinburgh 23/04/2009 12:05:13
#96 Hugh
You missed out zillion.
10 to the power of 3n+3
92

Hugh Roscombe,

23/04/2009 12:08:27
Is there a gazillion?
93

Fairfax,

23/04/2009 12:13:07
Independent (90): "Not one Bank collapsed in those three Nations....why...because this lot dont stand for rubbish from their Governments and are generally more aware of failings of government...and respond in kind."

No bank has yet collapsed, but there's no reason to be sanguine. For example, National Australia Bank, the owner of the Bank of New Zealand, experienced a $416 million (USD) foreign exchange trading scandal in 2004, and in the late 1980s and early 1990s both the State Bank of Victoria and the State Bank of South Australia failed. Further, to my knowledge New Zealand has no deposit guarantee scheme whatsoever. Both states have experienced property bubbles and their banks will have also have exposure to US banks.
94

Guy Wersh,

23/04/2009 12:15:38
Bazillion = UK debt = an unthinkable number of zeros after the one.
95

Fairfax,

23/04/2009 12:16:26
Fred Leeson (99): "You missed out zillion.
10 to the power of 3n+3"

To be fair, that's the general form of the nth -illion number. I suppose we should also add googol = 10^100 and googolplex = 10^googol, but those are for true hyperinflation . . .
96

,

23/04/2009 12:56:07
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97

Tartan Viking,

23/04/2009 13:05:31
£20,000 for every man, woman and child in the land.

Lie-bour's legacy.

VOTE THEM OUT whilst you still have a chance to salvage your country.
98

Jay Kay,

23/04/2009 13:07:02
Ok so if I earn £149,000 and my bos say's yo Jay your doing a bang up job er's a 2.5% pay rise, I'm gona tell him to f * ck right orf arn't I. Ill just keep my £149,000 a year and 40% tax bracket as his 2.5% pay rise would actually mean i'm £18 grand a year worse of.

I'm sure the clever accountants will find even more ways of ensuring their clients who pay their wages wont loose a penny.

Darling, your a c**t.
99

smokey joe 1,

23/04/2009 13:24:09
107.
Just like his boss.
100

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 23/04/2009 14:03:42
106 JayKay
I am surprised that nobody has commented on why Alistair Darling chose £150,000 as the rate at which the top rate would apply.

His own salary (like all cabinet ministers) is £141,866. Just coincidence?
101

Hugh Roscombe,

23/04/2009 14:09:21
Luckily this extra tax for high earners won't affect me.

:-(
102

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

23/04/2009 14:12:14
Call for Games cash return

Ministers are to urge the return of £150m in lost legacy funding for the 2014 Commonwealth Games in Glasgow.

Sports minister Shona Robison is to set out plans to ensure lasting benefits from the Games at Holyrood.

The SNP government says funding for the 2012 London Olympics had cost lottery good causes in Scotland £150m - and it want an equivalent sum returned.
103

Richard Lionheart,

23/04/2009 14:21:48
Strange the only times when Labour don’t count the same money twice, three times or more is when they are Increasing Public Debt, raising taxes or dare we say it, claiming expenses from the public purse. The jury may be out on the claiming expenses bit though.
104

,

23/04/2009 14:50:00
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105

Stuart505,

Dubai 23/04/2009 14:57:35
Jay Kay @106:

Surely the 50% rate kicks in at 150K, and applies to income over the threshold, in the same manner that the 40% band works. Better off taking that rise, son.....
106

mike3,

23/04/2009 15:03:58
Whether the 50% tax is good or bad I don't think the fact that only a few will be made to pay it should be used as something in its favour as Darling seemed to do. Only a few being hanged didn't stop that being abolished.
107

Davie08,

Edinburgh 23/04/2009 15:42:30
#103 Gosh Faifax and I thought all the zeros were on the Government front bench.
108

,

23/04/2009 15:49:05
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109

Davie08,

Edinburgh 23/04/2009 15:53:55
#117 I wont volunteer to read the last rites over rufus's grave but can I buy a ticket for the dance?
110

pwd,

Hawick 23/04/2009 15:56:44
#51
"How much longer is Scotland going to put up with the old bi-polar westminster politics." (?)

A very long time I would say if the last MSP election in 2007 is anything to go by, when 17% of the elctorate voted for the SNP and independence and 83% did not.
111

pwd,

Borders 23/04/2009 16:00:50
#82

"But then the first part of the phrase would be "To be born British""

I think the original actually said British and it was said by Cecil Rhodes.
112

Davie08,

Edinburgh 23/04/2009 16:10:05
# It was Rhodes but as the man was little better than a pirate he was probably stating no more than the truth at the time.
113

,

23/04/2009 16:16:36
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114

Jimmy Le Pie,

23/04/2009 16:41:48
I see the U-turns have started,

From The Times,

"Senior ministers have hinted that the 50p top rate of income may only be temporary as they fend off accusations of the death of New Labour.

Gordon Brown and senior members of his Cabinet moved to resuscitate the New Labour legacy today by insisting the Budget announcement of a 50p top rate of tax - the highest level for 30 years - was not a political or ideological gesture.

Lord Mandelson, who opposed Gordon Brown's attempts to get a 50p rate introduced when Tony Blair was Prime Minister, instead insisted it was a practical necessity born of exceptional economic circumstances.

"It's most certainly not the end of New Labour. We are not a high tax party. We don't tax for its own sake," the Business Secretary said"
115

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/04/2009 17:17:04
"It's most certainly not the end of New Labour''

I wouldn't bet on that Mandy.

The''project'' has ushered the Tories in for at least the next decade, I think. Well done.
116

,

23/04/2009 17:29:45
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117

,

23/04/2009 17:31:06
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118

William of the Clan MacKay,

23/04/2009 18:53:33
Here is the answer to all of the money problems. Make all polititions go back to high School and be taught basic economics. Outgo = less than income. Duh? Anyone ever think of this solution???
119

pwd,

Selkirk 23/04/2009 19:12:13
#122

Polls are snapshots, temporary opinions; election voting figures are facts and for the Scottish Executive elections of 2007 only 17% showed any inclination for independence - fact. You have a very long wait.
120

,

23/04/2009 19:36:03
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121

hoblar,

23/04/2009 20:53:20
The arrogance of the rather unsteady unionist argument is to presume that Scots are heavily into the union.

That isn't true, votes not only from those directly interested in Independence but from those who realise the real futility of voting for the twins 'New' labour and their brothers in arms, the Tories.

The Scottish Government being the best and most representative in these Isles, is indeed a strong factor that was a goal from the moment the SNP took office. After 30 years of constant vilification, this was an absolute requirement particularly since the arrogance of the Scottish opposition was that the Scottish Government would only last 100 days, and that was after the press bombarding us for years with the disinformation that the SNP couldn't govern, or that it would,er, COST US A FORTUNE.

Well, as labour laugh at budget cuts in Scotland as we feel the brunt of the economic mayhem labour have inflicted upon us all.

The time for New Labour is up, and in Scotland the tories will be nowhere much as far as oUR votes go, and labour will get what they deserve as well, just as the Tories did.
122

Hugh Roscombe,

23/04/2009 21:09:27
Some idiot said

"...and for the Scottish Executive elections of 2007 only 17% showed any inclination for independence - fact."

Government now matey! In addition I wasn't aware that these elections were for independence. I though they were for a chance of a VOTE for same.

Then again - you knew that - yer just trolling.
123

,

23/04/2009 21:23:56
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124

,

23/04/2009 21:26:22
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125

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/04/2009 21:33:46
132 - have you been hanging about from 14.50 until now to make another post ? Saddo.
126

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23/04/2009 21:37:37
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