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$145 a barrel and rising as G8 leaders get set to discuss world crisis

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Published Date: 07 July 2008
SOARING global food and energy prices and international concern at the nuclear plans of renegade states Iran and North Korea are set to dominate the G8 summit when it gets under way today.
The three-day summit in Japan will see world leaders discuss how best to address the unprecedented cost of oil after a price of a barrel rose to $145 last week.

The bloodshed and political unrest in Zimbabwe and the failure to hit a target from the G8 summit in Gleneagles, in 2005, to boost aid to Africa will also be on the agenda.

The annual event will be the first attended by Gordon Brown as Prime Minister, and the eighth and last for the US president George Bush, whose term of office ends in less than 200 days.

Mr Bush, speaking yesterday as he arrived in Japan, said North Korea had not fully addressed US concerns about its nuclear activities. Last week the Communist state provided information, but suspicions remain about uranium enrichment, a process in creating nuclear bombs.

The G8 is due to issue a "strong message" condemning both North Korea, which withdrew from the worldwide treaty on the proliferation of nuclear weapons five years ago, and Iran, which has faced United Nations sanctions since resuming uranium enrichment two years ago.

Mr Bush said: "North Korea did provide a declaration of its plutonium- related activities and did blow up the cooling tower of its nuclear reactor at Yongbyon. That's been verified and is a positive step, but there are more steps to be taken."

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, said G8 leaders would discuss how to increase pressure on Robert Mugabe following the disputed presidential elections that left him clinging to power in Zimbabwe.

Mr Brown last week repeated his belief that Mr Mugabe had blood on his hands after using violence to steal the election from the opposition leader, Morgan Tsvangirai. The White House said it believed leaders would "strongly condemn" the Zimbabwe regime in their official communique.

Mr Brown has warned that rich nations must not abandon their commitment to tackling climate change and world poverty because of tougher economic conditions.

Amid fears that previous pledges on aid to Africa and carbon emissions could scaled back, he insisted they should in fact be accelerated.

British officials are looking for the countries to make a "reaffirmation" of aid promises made at the Gleneagles summit to double development aid by 2050. They want poor countries encouraged to develop their agriculture sectors so they can feed themselves. But there is also recognition that African countries must keep their side of the bargain by rooting out the "cycle of coups, crises and corruption".

Yasuo Fukuda, the Japanese prime minister, who is chairing the summit, has committed the G8 to greater efforts to tackle climate change. "Global warming is a huge challenge and humanity has no time to lose," he said.

The summit is being held on the northernmost Japanese island of Hokkaido. There will also be debate on the question of whether the use of land to grow biofuel crops – to reduce dependency on oil – has driven up food prices.

At Westminster, the UK government will today publish the Gallagher review into the effect of biofuels alongside ministerial plans for the way forward. Japan believes biofuel production is compromising the supply of food, but that view is not shared by the US.

Delegates will get to test-drive the latest technology

US PRESIDENT George Bush said it all: he is looking forward to battery-powered vehicles looking more like cars than "golf carts".

That future will be visible for all to see – and for world leaders to test-drive – during the three-day G8 summit in Japan this week, which will showcase the country's status as being at the forefront of technology that does not rely on fossil fuels nor emit greenhouse gases.

All seven main Japanese car-makers are providing demonstration vehicles, including the Toyota FCHV-adv, which uses a nickel hydride battery and can travel more than 500 miles on a tank of hydrogen gas.

Honda FCX Clarity cars, which are powered by hydrogen fuel cells, are ferrying the delegates between meetings. However, the nearest hydrogen filling station is 13 miles away due to security concerns.

Security guards have been getting in on the act too – they patrol the grounds around the conference area in Hokkaido on Segway two-wheeled battery-operated scooters.

Visitors to Japan frequently return with tales of the extraordinary controls on the lavatories, from heated seats to a choice of music to accompany each visit. At the G8 summit, even the loos take on a "green" dimension, using up to 31 per cent less water than normal appliances by employing new types of flush. The lids even pop open at the wave of a hand.

A visitor to the summit travelling from Singapore would need to spend £125 offsetting his or her "carbon footprint" of 2.7 tonnes. This would be done by buying three trees, which would negate the carbon in 30 years.

The Japanese government is planning to offset the total expected emissions from this week's summit of 25,000 tonnes, according to a spokeswoman.

IN NUMBERS

8
members of the G8: UK, USA, Canada, Italy, France, Germany, Russia and Japan. However the EU is represented by the Commission president, Jose Manuel Barroso, which is why there are nine seats at the top table.

20,000
security agents and riot police guarding the world leaders.

5,000
journalists in Japan covering the three-day event.

4
occasions the summit has been held in Japan previously. The years were 1979, 1986, 1993 and 2000.

1975
when the first summit was held.

62
President George Bush marked his birthday yesterday.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 July 2008 11:29 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: The G8
 
1

Paula,

07/07/2008 00:01:17
The first thing they need to do is get a handle on the speculators who are actually the cause of this. They crashed the mortgage market and moved into oil and food. Suddenly the prices surge upwards.

And the same few people make millions by the minute.
2

,

07/07/2008 00:03:32
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3

Highland Mighty©,

07/07/2008 00:03:53
$145 a barrel and Salmond actually expects us to believe that relying on a highly unpredictable and declining source for 25% of our income is the way ahead.

Insane. Just insane.
4

,

07/07/2008 00:09:53
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5

ThomasP,

07/07/2008 00:10:05
The only thing that is insane is spending money on nuclear power ststions, nuclear missles and going into debt by 500 billion and rising.
6

The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 00:29:22
The price of oil is rising that much. The dollar is a worthless piece of paper.

Use the exchange rate then and now and you'll see oil rising a third less.
7

,

07/07/2008 00:31:06
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8

subrosa,

07/07/2008 00:32:49
An article in the Daily Mail states Gordon Brown wants us to stop throwing food away and that would save £8 a week per household. It goes on to say that the G8 crowd are having a dinner later today and 40+ chefs have been called in to prepare it.

Hipocrisy at it's best.
9

,

07/07/2008 00:42:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
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10

TommyKaye,

UK 07/07/2008 00:54:59
Labour MP spent £500,000 of taxpayers' money running office from home staffed by wife

David Marshall used expenses to run an office from his home which was staffed by his wife Tina
A Labour MP used almost £500,000 of taxpayers' money over six years to help run an office from his home which was staffed by his wife.
David Marshall, 67, who has quit to spark the Glasgow East by-election on July 24, used the expenses to pay for a constituency office and staff.
But Mr Marshall's office was in his semi-detached Glasgow home and he employed his wife Tina as his secretary. It is also believed he paid his daughter Christina to work from his home from the same pool of money.
A Commons spokesman said MPs can use their home as an office but only claim for additional costs like 'extra phone lines, heating and lighting'.
From 2001-2007, Mr Marshall claimed £91,000 incidental expenses provision, which is used to pay for constituency offices, plus £400,000 for staff and £11,000 for their travel expenses.
He listed only one member of staff on the Commons register - Christina Marshall. It was unclear if this was his wife Tina or daughter Christina.
Neighbours and political sources said his wife had worked for him - with Labour ex-Minister Brian Wilson saying that Mrs Marshall had worked for her husband as a constituency secretary.
Mr Marshall is said to be suffering clinical depression. Party sources said he felt 'under pressure' over the expenses allegations.
The family refuses to comment on why he spent so much on office expenses, why he ran an office from home and what family members were on his payroll.
11

A Better Way,

Scottish Nation 07/07/2008 01:59:36
High and Shoitee,

No Alex Salmond simply wants the Scottish Nation to decide its own future by Scots for Scots. Nothing more and definately Nothing Less.

You sir are either of foreign origins like say Northern Ireland, or are merely just another of those hangers on to those with their snouts in the trough.

The average Scot who you seem to have forgotten, like the average Unionist Drone on these pages, is that the English Politicians are responsable for the mass depravation that is a normal feature of the Scottish Nation in 2008. Alex Salmond, who your masters have you on this forum, simply believes that our Nation is the only democratic force that can correct these evils. The real Question is why do you not wish to see the end to the English Inspired Disease.

Me I think you are just another one of these paid Unionists who treat the Scottish Nation with contempt. May I suggest you would be well served if you went about your business by taking care of your own kind down south.

Your type are not to be despised merely because your loyalties lie in a foreign land and you interfere in Scottish issues. Please refrain from promoting a system that does not allow any disenting Democratic Nation to dare upset the London Applecart.
12

Ted999,

North Bay 07/07/2008 03:01:34
Saudi Arabia says oil is over priced. Others experts are also are saying the same thing. There is no shortage of oil, just bad management of inventory levels. The oil bubble will burst some day soon. That's what happens to big bubbles. Oil futures have been artificially inflated in value by commodities traders for weeks. Traders like Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley are making a fortune. I think new regulations are necessary. I find it interesting that billionaire financier George Soros calls this OIL phenomena a Bubble when everyone else sees a sharp spike in oil prices. He says he believes there are lots of bubbles building in financial markets, and in OIL. To quote him he says "He believes better regulation is necessary to keep commodity prices at more reasonable levels." That's what I have also been saying. Thegovernment needs to step in and do something about commodities trading. First of all, OIL and Gas should not be traded like poker chips. The consequences of a mistake are far too grave. Look whats happening in Europe now with strikes and protests etc. Imagine if the same thing happened here. To help make my point imagine if we traded wheat commodities and wheat jumped 100 percent so traders all jumped in and bought more driving the cost up even higher... soon the whole world would starve because wheat prices would skyrocket. There are probably controls on wheat trading so this can't really happen but what about oil. Can Investors drive the price up indefinitely? What controls are in place to prevent a huge spike in prices on the NYMEX. Oil is a key commodity and it's basic for the proper operation of commerce in America. For investers to gamble with this commodity in Futures speculation is very irrational and irresponsible. I firmly believe there needs to be safety controls in place to prevent greed driven spikes in prices on the commodities exchange the same as there were safety controls implimented after the great crash of the Thirty's to prevent a botto
13

Ted999,

North Bay 07/07/2008 03:06:38
Continued from post above.......

to prevent a bottoming out of stocks. It's a big game to them... but if the rules of the game are flawed then accidents happen. I am refering to the ENRON LOOPHOLE, SWAPS LOOPHOLE, and LONDON LOOPHOLE. A huge spike could take prices through the roof and this would not be good for for anyone except PERHAPS for the speculator involved. The Canadian Government is investigating this as we speak and rightly so. If other governments follow suit then futures traders may be forced to follow new rules of trading. When fear, greed and suspicion surround an activity what does that tell you? The commodities market needs a good overhaul to bring some credibility back into commodities trading. New regulations are necessary because a huge greed driven spike in oil can cause fear among all other investment sectors that are adversely affected by high oil prices. That fear would trigger a market reversal of grand proportions that would far out-weight any gains made by oil. These high prices are not sustainable and jeopardise economic growth globally, The price is inflated far above it's true value which is probably closer to 80 dollars a barrel. Visit our website and take part in our gas poll on. We asked who's to blame for high gas prices and got some very interesting results. Over half of respondence say they blame speculation for the problem. http://www.nbtv.ca
14

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 07/07/2008 04:11:16
Every dollar more that a barrel cost obviously causes economic pain for the economy.

Conversly an independent Scotland would not fear higher oil prices as fuel taxes would be ours, all ours, extra revenue would be used to stimulate the economy beyond the pain of higher fuel costs.

It's not selfish, it's natural self interest as displayed by every single country in the world.


High fuel cost are only going to continue with demand from India and China's emerging middle classes being the primary drivers.

$200 a barrel in 12 months I predict - Scots are being given a second bite at the cherry - will they take it?
15

yockel,

07/07/2008 07:23:40
They turned us into consumers to artificially keep the economy alive by spending borrowed money. Now Gorgo wants us to eat less to save the world. Hang on a minute, if we stop consuming the world markets will crash and the recession will deepen, what ya going to do Gordo? Hide?
16

BK,

Cyberspace 07/07/2008 07:47:03
"Mr Brown last week repeated his belief that Mr Mugabe had blood on his hands"

Pots and kettles spring to mind. Brown has butchered more than Mugabe, both as PM and supporter of Blair, in his illegal wars..
17

Jock ex 45Cdo RM,

THORNHILL 07/07/2008 08:51:02
1 #17 again the vexed question of Lies and Greed.
the Fifer still maintains his importance.
2 Time we capped the TOTAL TAX ie VAT and VED to say the year 2000 level.
Why does the Government of the day need the extra cash collection as apercentage of World Oil Prices?
3 Speculation. Suppose oil fell back to $50-00 a barrel, would Gordon and Alister go for voluntary UK Insovancy?
3 @5 Spot on

18

Edward,

07/07/2008 09:04:14
Brown is now saying we waste food
and that we should stop bulk buying, which saves us money and that supermarkets should stop offering 2 for 1 deals (which again saves us money)
Before lecturing us on wasting food, perhaps he should be lecturing George Bush, as Americans are the biggest wasters of food, something even thay would agree with
But why is the cost of food gong up?
Well perhaps its something to do with fuel costs going up atributed to greedy speculators, which needs investigating. Also the mass conversion by farmers to produce product for bio fuels. A the push for Bio Fuels included Gordon Brown!
Of the farmers that produce food for the table, they are not actually seeing any benefits of price increases as its the supermarkets that still make the money. Supermarkets like TESCO's who are a Labour donor
19

GordonJ,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 09:06:50
#12- Typical rubbish spouted by a brain-washed Nationalist.

You have to resort by trying to belittle others and have no time for people who think different from you. Last I looked this was a democratic country and we will decide our own in future in time. Hopefully once the vote goes the way of staying in the Union, you will do us a favour and leave!
20

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 07/07/2008 09:14:06
#12 - a Better Way
"No Alex Salmond simply wants the Scottish Nation to decide its own future by Scots for Scots . . . t you would be well served if you went about your business by taking care of your own kind down south. Your type are not to be despised merely because your loyalties lie in a foreign land "

Here we have the nationalist, racist, xenophobic, bigot in all its glory.

What about the 14-20% of people in this UK region that are not 'Scots'.

"your own kind down south" - racist, parochial rubbish.

"English-inspired disease" - wow - old Adolf would have signed you up in a heartbeat .

Er have you noticed that it is largely 'pure blood Scots' who have wrecked the economy of the UK, destroyed the education system, the health system, the transport system - and left us with the greatest national debt in the history of this country: Bliar, Cook, Reid, Brown, Alexander, Darling, Des Browne - the whole sorry neo-Marxist pack of them - Scots to a man,

The Scottish Labour Party has in effect been running UK PLC sine 1997 - and our current dire straits are a direct result of what happens when the tartan mafia rule the roost.

21

Saoghal Beag,

07/07/2008 09:18:14
no edward, broon is sating stop buying bogofs, it halves his vat take.
22

Saoghal Beag,

07/07/2008 09:22:06
21 tweedmouth, no fair calling them neo-maxists, not one of them has a conscience, let alone a commitment to social policy, they are not even folowing adam smith.
23

Mikey,

07/07/2008 09:23:45
Same applies to you, GordonJ! Will you leave an independent, affluent Scotland for pastures new?
24

LEAL,

07/07/2008 09:27:26
High oil prices should not be a problem in Scotland.We produce far more than we need ourselves and so have a surplus to sell on the world market at a high price.The only trouble is we as Scots would rather give the surplus to London than spend it in Scotland developing infrastructure,both economic and social,to carry our country to a prosperous future.Until now that is.People in Scotland are split equally on whether Scotland should be independent,but both camps now realise Scotland can survive without London rule.As the debate goes on,more and more pro union people will start to doubt the fear campaigns that eminate from London,and ask why it is so many people in Scotland have so little when London takes so much from us.
25

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 09:28:24
3

According to you Scotland generates 99bn in revenue without North sea oil so we dont need a single penny in North sea oil revenue at all. We in fact generate more than 3 times the income we receive from the Barnett formula without taking North sea oil revenue into consideration according to your figures and calculations and yet you say we would be financially backrupt outside of the UK even with oil revenue comming in?
Are you a total moron then?
26

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 09:32:38
21

Correction "SCOTS UNIONISTS" to a man you xenophobic little englander you.
Now remind me again of all the benefits and good government we had under Thatcher, Heath, Major and the other little Englander unionists?
27

ruthie,

ALBA 07/07/2008 09:39:14
and mr North britain lectures us peasants on not throwing away food as he flies round the world in a private jet, chartered apparently from Texas, to pick him up in London then take him to Japan. Get that man out!VOTE SNP!
28

,

07/07/2008 09:41:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
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29

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 09:49:39
29

You have in fact proved on a previous thread that Scotland subsidises the rest of the UK by approx 102 billion pounds if you include North sea oil revenue at its present value and at the same time insisted Scotland couldnt go it alone financially. You claimed we would in fact live under a deficit even though according to you we can get by happily with the 30 billion from the Barnett formula. Now does that make any sense to you at all?
Or are you going to finally admit your just a lying little torag?

All of this is based on your figures your calculations and your government sources I didnt make this up YOU DID. I still have your original posts sitting on my hard drive would you like me to paste them here?
30

,

07/07/2008 09:53:21
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31

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 09:57:10
31

Highland Mighty...,
03/07/2008 17:54:21
30. Go and read the links.

They are from the RBS Oil and Gas Index. The very same that Salmond claims to have helped create:

Production in 1999 = 2.9m barrels per day

....Production drops 8-10% every year for 9 years....

Production in Jan 2008 = 1.2m barrels per day


38
McMadman,
http://scottishreferendum2008.blogspot.com 03/07/2008 18:09:49
Highland

Clearly you are mathematically challenged.

The market value of 1.2 million barrels of oil, at a current market rate of $144 dollars, is $172,800,000. Or, assuming an exchange rate of $1.90 to the £,
£90,947,368.42.

That's £ 90,947,368.42. Per day. Annualised, this comes to £33,195,789,473.30.

£33bn, for the sake of a few pennies.

I understand that the current block grant to holyrood is around £30bn per year.

Hmmmm. Being independent would seem to benefit us by more than £3bn, based on your own oil output figures.

And theres more:
32

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 09:58:04
31

Highland Mighty...,
03/07/2008 18:22:19
37. Scotland is now the third richest of all the UK's nations/regions after London and the south.

Edinburgh is now the richest area in the entire UK.

The oil revenue is a major proportion (~25%) of our economy yet is beyond our control and highly unstable and unpredictable. It would be insane to rely on it in any way for future revenue.
It's the same as relying on a session at the roulette table for a quarter of your income. Would you take that risk? Would you take that risk with the entire country's economy?

Even with massive tax revenues, both oil and non-oil, we are only now GENUINELY making it into the black....but it is ALL down to the oil having increased nearly 500% in price over the past 5 years.

However, we should certainly not consider oil as a reliable source of income (which it clearly isn't except in Salmond's warped mind). Even with Buzzard and the other far smaller oilfields coming online, total production will still continue to drop. Buzzard, at the very best, will only fill half of the 1999-2008 gap.

My solution is to stay put, take the secure income, budget and public services that comes from not being heavily dependent on oil.

Then we can either sit with the steady 1-2% growth of the past 60 months and keep public spending at current levels, growing with the rest of the UK (which has constantly outpaced much of Europe for a similar period).....

Or we seek faster improvement now with a boost in growth through tax cuts, attracting more businesses and boosting the economy generally. However, this will obviously mean a cut in public services.














64
Highland Mighty...,
03/07/2008 19:25:47
However, if the price drops after independence OR the oil fields fail to meet expectations, then up to 25% of the economy and tax revenue will start to fade away.

It's highly unlikely there would be a full 25% drop but even half that would do tremendous damage t
33

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 07/07/2008 09:59:30
With Glasgow Labour MPs voting against the SNP's proposals to reduce the fuel price with a fuel duty regulator and voting to increase Vehicle Excise Duty Glasgow SNP MSP Bill Kidd published a table of recent high profile votes showing how Glasgow Labour MPs had failed to stand up for their constituent's interests by voting for measures that made life more difficult for them.

Mr Kidd condemned Glasgow's Labour MPs for failing to support their constituents again and again and said it was indicative of how Labour had neglected Glasgow and taken its voters for granted.

Commenting Mr Kidd said:

"This week Labour MPs from Glasgow showed how they take their voters for granted by voting to keep sky high fuel taxes up.

"Over half the people in the East End of Glasgow travelling to work use their car and have been let down by Labour as the cost of motoring is already proportionately high for them.

"The only MPs from Scotland who were on their side were MPs from the SNP. Glasgow's Labour MPs voted against the means to provide those motorists with some relief from sky high fuel taxes.

"However that is not the only example of Labour MPs voting to back Gordon Brown but not Glasgow.

"Glasgow Labour MPs voted to abolish the 10p tax rate and voted to still keep 1.1 million low paid workers worse off. They backed the Labour Government's Post Office closure programme which has seen 24 local post offices close in the Greater Glasgow area; and they voted to take £184 million in lottery money for good causes in some of Scotland's poorest communities to subsidise the spiralling cost of the London Olympics.

"Those examples show that again and again Labour MPs take their constituents for granted and neglect their interests.

"In contrast SNP MPs voted to stop the abolition of the 10p tax rate, for a suspension of the Post Office closure programme and to protect lottery money for Scotland's poorest communities. SNP MPs have already shown a commitment to Glasgow whi
34

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 09:59:35
31

MisterN,
Scotland 03/07/2008 19:42:15
64

If oil revenue is 25% of the Scottish economy then the Scottish economy equates to 33 billion x 4 at todays oil prices by the Government figures you produced on another thread. Scotland receives 30 billion from the Barnett formula so maybe you could take the time to explain how the f*ck we are better off in the Union even if oil prices dropped overnight to a 1/4 of their present value?

Your own bullsh*t still shows Scotland as better off going it alone.


74
MisterN,
Scotland 03/07/2008 20:34:02
HM

According to you Scotland generates 99bn in revenue without North sea oil so we dont need a single penny in North sea oil revenue at all. We in fact generate more than 3 times the income we receive from the Barnett formula without taking North sea oil revenue into consideration according to your figures and calculations and yet you say we would be financially backrupt outside of the UK even with oil revenue comming in?
Are you a total moron then?


77
MisterN,
Scotland 03/07/2008 20:47:55
HM troll

You have in fact proved on a previous thread that Scotland subsidises the rest of the UK by approx 102 billion pounds if you include North sea oil revenue at its present value and at the same time insisted Scotland couldnt go it alone financially. You claimed we would in fact live under a deficit even though according to you we can get by happily with the 30 billion from the Barnett formula. Now does that make any sense to you at all?
Or are you going to finally admit your just a lying little torag?

And that was the little sequence of events that occured a couple of days ago.
And now your posting the same sh*te again.
35

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 07/07/2008 10:00:18
SNP MPs have already shown a commitment to Glasgow whilst its own Labour MPs have not.

"The SNP Government has also helped mitigate the effects of soaring prices and energy costs by putting more money back in people's pockets by freezing Council Tax and reducing prescription charges.

"The coming by-election in Glasgow East is a chance for the people of the East End of Glasgow to send a message to the Labour party that they are no longer being taken for granted; that they want MPs on their side – on Glasgow's side – not protecting Gordon Brown.

"Only an SNP vote in Glasgow East can send that message and only the SNP has introduced the policies to help the people of Glasgow."
36

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 07/07/2008 10:04:47
If Zanu Liebour are not voting against the interests of the working class of Glasgow, they are voting for filling thir boots up by continuing their greedy grabbing selfish corruption using our taxes to stuff their houses with the John Lewis list.

The word went out in the commons before the debate that their was no point in turning up as it was going to be thrown out. When every one had made other plans the Labour hogs piled in and voted to keep their expenses.

What a vomit inducing bunch of pigs.
37

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 07/07/2008 10:06:04
SNP Candidate for Glasgow East Cllr John Mason today said “the wheels have come off Labour’s campaign before they’ve even picked a candidate” after the Scottish Government announced an extension of the concessionary fares scheme to injured veterans and re-confirmed that there would be no changes to the eligibility, times or routes available to older and disabled people on the Scottish Government’s concessionary fares scheme.

Cllr Mason attacked Labour for "scaremongering" in Glasgow East on the issue, and said that the announcement was further evidence of the SNP government delivering first class services for people in Glasgow and throughout Scotland.

Cllr John Mason said

“The wheels have come off Labour’s campaign bus before they’ve even picked a candidate. Today’s announcement shows the SNP is on your side – guaranteeing free bus travel for older and disabled people through the concessionary fares scheme.

“The SNP Government is even looking at extending the scheme to injured veterans. Far from cutting back as Labour claimed the SNP is delivering a better service for people in Glasgow and throughout Scotland.
38

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 10:06:09
One way of dealing with this problem would be to re-introduce the cartel system and fix the price of oil at the level it was about a year ago. The high oil price is due to speculators forcing the price up. It is nothing whatsoever to do with a shortage of oil.

As for Brown, I find it astounding that he is preaching to us as though we were a load of nursery school kids. The majority of the food price problems in this country are due to the criminal mismanagement by his stupid government. If he scrapped fuel duty altogether, then the situation would be a lot better very quickly.

It is refreshing to note that a meeting such as this is going to address some real issues for once, rather than concentrating on the fictional King Canute concept of "global warming" of "climate change".
39

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 07/07/2008 10:06:33
Cllr John Mason said

“The wheels have come off Labour’s campaign bus before they’ve even picked a candidate. Today’s announcement shows the SNP is on your side – guaranteeing free bus travel for older and disabled people through the concessionary fares scheme.

“The SNP Government is even looking at extending the scheme to injured veterans. Far from cutting back as Labour claimed the SNP is delivering a better service for people in Glasgow and throughout Scotland.

“The SNP in Government has already shown that we are on the side of people in Glasgow fighting back against gangs with more police on our streets, targeting the booze and blade culture with plans to end access to the cheap alcohol that fuels violence on the city’s streets, and now guaranteeing free bus travel for our elderly and disabled people, and extending it to injured veterans in recognition of their service.

“In contrast Labour are once again offering nothing but scare stories while they sit back and watch as families feel the pinch from Labour’s tax hikes and rising food and fuel prices.

“Once again the SNP are on your side while the Labour party is out of touch in Glasgow.”
40

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 07/07/2008 10:08:09
"New figures released today by the SNP show there has been an 146% increase in electricity and gas disconnections in the last two years as prices have soared. There is an overwhelming demand for Westminster to take action on energy prices yet Labour are doing nothing to help - they are completely immobilised.

"The Prime Minister is raking in an offshore oil windfall of some £5 billion - yet refuses to take the measures needed to bring relief to hard pressed families and business. And he refuses to give Scotland a fair share of our own oil wealth - the equivalent of £40 a family in Glasgow East, which would give the Scottish people direct and long term benefits.

"Compared to this 'rabbit in the headlights' approach from the UK Labour government, the Scottish Government have taken decisive action to help people and the economy.

"Among the 140 measures the SNP have taken in government over the past year, we have frozen the Council Tax, begun the phased abolition of prescription charges, slashed business rates, installed a record number of free central heating installations, and restored free education.

"These positive and progressive policies show that the SNP Government are on the side of the people whilst the struggling Labour party is out of touch. It's time to move on and for Glasgow East to move forward with the SNP."
41

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 07/07/2008 10:08:39
ALBA GU BRATH
42

MisterN,

07/07/2008 10:15:29
HM

To summerise:

YOU STATED "Production in Jan 2008 = 1.2m barrels per day"

Which equates to at todays price 174000000 dollars per day or approx 87 million pounds per day or approx 32 billion pounds per annum

YOU ALSO STATED "The oil revenue is a major proportion (~25%) of our economy"

Therefore according to you the Scottish economy is worth 32bn x 4 or 1.28 trillion pounds.

But all we get is 30bn from the Barnett formula therefore we are subsidising the UK by approx 1 trillion pounds ACCORDING TO YOU AND YOUR GOVERNMENT DERIVED STATISTICS.
43

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 10:19:44
35 Mister N
You obviously no understanding of the difference between such things as GDP, revenue etc. May I suggest that you acquire some before you start abusing and insulting others.
£99bn is a GDp figure not a revenue figure.
Also the revenue from oil is not £33bn. This is the price at which it is sold. From the $144 price the oil companies deduct their development, appraisal and operating costs. The remainder is then taxed at 50% - this is the revenue i.e. considerably less than half of the £33bn
44

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 10:20:24
43

I do apologise that should be 128billion not 1.28trillion therefore we only subsidise the UK by approx 100million pounds per annum according to HM and the Government.
45

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 10:22:28
44

Actually it is taxed at 75% in total and none of the above stats or figures are mine they all belong to HM so if you have a problem with them then refer it to him or her or whatever.
46

Upandunder,

07/07/2008 10:22:38
Petrol in the UK is cheap. It's around 30p in the £1 spent at the forecourt.

The rest is subject to various (large) taxes.

Our hopeless PM is all talk and no action: He says he's concerned for British families and businesses, yet refuses to share the actual pain of the rise in oil prices.

Thanks, Gordon. You're pathetic. Like all Labour politicians.
47

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 07/07/2008 10:23:03
What are you all moaning about? As Gordon says "we have never had it so good" and if you stop wating the odd old vegetable then everything will be well again.
48

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 10:23:53
44

Where did I use the 99bn GDP figure in my summing up?
49

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 10:26:05
47

Exactly the figures above are based on taxed crude not the tax taken from the refined product at the forecourt. the mind boggles at how much the treasury takes in from Scotland when you consider the above figures are in fact deceptively low.
50

Tris,

Dundee 07/07/2008 10:32:16

#8

I noticed that on the news this morning.

The North British Fat Controller Nut Case telling us to buy less food, and my mind went immediately to the series of programmes on Radio 4 not so long ago "Eating for Britain" I think it was called, where they talked about how entertaining is done in Government, the Diplomatic Service, and I think, at Buck House.

These people pack a way a fair amount of top quality food and even more top quality wines at our expense at a cost of multi-millions a year.....

And this pathetic excuse for a prime minister tells us not to waste food.

Cretin. He's enough to make you bring up your dinner.

Perhaps he'd like to tell us how much washing up liquid to use; where to set our thermostats; how much petrol to use; how often to use the lavatory, while he jets off round the world, eating drinking and using fuel on our behalf.


51

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 10:37:21
44

Actually that 99bn figure is really interesting when you consider its lower than the GDP figures for countries such as Israel, Denmark, Belarus, Slovakia, New Zealand, Moroco and Kazakstan.
Especially when you consider Norways GDP is 247,416 million.
It appears most of the country is on the dole.
52

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 07/07/2008 10:42:48
#51 Exactly. I wonder if the G8 bigwigs including that sweaty unelected downcast looking potato from No. 10 Downing Street will be worrying about how many prawn cocktails and lobster salads get sent to the trash can during their multiple dinner parties in Japan.
53

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 10:43:46
46 MisterN
Sorry to correct you again but only a small proportion of the oil from older fields is subject to the petroleum revenue tax of 75%. Most is taxed at the special corporate tax of 50%.
You have quoted stats from somebody else but you have quoted them in the wrong context. It is obvious that you do not understand the difference between GDP and revenue.
54

The Scotchman,

07/07/2008 10:45:07
# 18 - Broon is a Weegie.
55

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 10:52:58
52 Mister N
You are getting your facts confused again. You have looke up the GDP of these countries but you have forgotten that these figures are in US dollars and then comparing them to the figure in pounds.
56

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07/07/2008 10:54:25
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07/07/2008 10:56:52
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 10:58:35
56

Be my guest.
59

ThomasP,

07/07/2008 10:59:02
#57

Guess what.

You may not know this but oil producing countries tend to gamble their finances on the price of oil...

It is one of the risks of using natural resources...

Prices rise and fall all the time.
60

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 10:59:57
57

You stated very very clearly that NS oil revenue is worth 25% of the entire Scottish economy did you not?
61

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 07/07/2008 11:00:24
Two things would immediately help this country:

1) the re-nationalisation of the railways with no compensation for shareholders as they are nothing but self-interested speculators.

2) the nationalisation of all oil fields and associated companies around the UK with no compensation for shareholders. Any workers or company directors who don't like the new deal can simply leave. There are plenty of oil workers available to fill their shoes.

In this way all revenue will flow into the treasury and taxes on fuel can therefore be lowered.
62

,

07/07/2008 11:04:46
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07/07/2008 11:05:41
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Tris,

07/07/2008 11:06:09
#11

Yes, but Norway had and has a sensible government which is dedicated to Norway and Norwegians.

On the other had, Scotland has had... well.... what can you say, Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown (who appears incapable of actually saying the word "Scotland").....a pathetic bunch in comparison.

It's hardly likely that we are up there with Norway, is it? And of course Norway didn't have to subsidise another country's wars and nuclear capabilities, so that this other country could send its top politicians (pathetic though they be)to dance on the world stage looking (self) important.

65

brownlie,

07/07/2008 11:06:52
58 Highland Mighty

"usual infantile abuse" ????

Last week on this site you accused me of making up quotes and attributing them to you regarding your previous posting of not being shocked by innocent Iraqis being killed. You claimed you had not made that quote and invited me to prove it.

""" 22/4/2008 18.06.11

Highland Mighty

Are you expecting me to be shocked that 10-20,000 innocent civilians were killed in a war involving 1.5 million troops?"""

Not only a callous and crass hypocrite but a proven liar!!
66

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07/07/2008 11:10:29
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 11:10:54
57

You also stated we take in 1.2 million barrels of crude a day did you not?

Is the price of a barrel of crude not priced at 145 US dollars today?

Does the government no tax this crude at a total value of 75% just on the crude?

Actually while we are at it can you explain to me why the UK only takes in 1.2mbpd with over 200 active platforms and Norway takes in 2.4mbpd with 51?
I still cant get my head around that one
Dont we need the money?
68

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 11:12:45
64

Why cant you? running out of bullsh*t already?
maybe next time you will ensure you figures and stats actually fit in with your arguements which may save you looking like a total lying prat.
But I doubt it.
69

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 07/07/2008 11:15:09
#63 A short term period of painful re-adjustment for the benefit of all - not just the few.

If company directors have their snouts forcibly removed from the trough and shareholders are taught a lesson in social responsibility then that will be a very good thing.
70

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 11:16:13
61/68 Mister N
Once more you are just illustrating your total confusion over these matters.
HM satted that oil revenues were 25% of total revenues.
This does not mean that oil is 25% of the economy. That is a totally different concept.
Also, as I have told you, only a small amount of the oil is taxed at 75%. Most is subject to corporation tax charged once the companies have deducted their costs.
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07/07/2008 11:22:38
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 11:22:40
71

Ok that still means that Scotlands total revenues are 4 x 24bn (75% of 32bn) and we still only get 30bn from the Barnett formula.
So you can cut it spin it waffle it any way you like according to HM Scotland subsidises the UK by a massive proportion.
73

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 11:24:21
72

Nothing left have you now its head in the sand and total denial.
Tripped up by your own lies and its a sad sight indeed.
What a sad little troll.
74

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07/07/2008 11:29:23
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 07/07/2008 11:32:16
Oil is an asset that belongs to the people therefore it should be a nationalised operation that extracts it for the benefit of all. If any of you saw the criminal amounts of money that people charge for their services within the oil industry it would turn your stomachs.

Oil workers, consultants and bosses should be civil servants paid general scale civil service salaries. If they are unwilling, they can go and work somewhere else in the private sector - it will not be hard to replace them.
76

brownlie,

07/07/2008 11:32:28
67 Highland Mighty/AM2/Richard1/Alfred E. etc etc etc

You are not only a proven liar but you haven chosen to carry perpetuate your lying by posting a quote which I never made.

Do you really think that your postings carry any credibility on this site any more?

Anyone on this site can refer to your posting on the 22nd April 2008 at 18.06.11 whereas the post that you attribute to me is, like most of your postings, a nonsensical product of your over-heated imagination.

I, and others, would have thought more of you if you had admitted forgetting, possibly due to your multiple monikers, to have made that remark which is there in black and white for all to see.

As for your farcical reference to me using multiple monikers to make it look as if there are more than "four of us" it should be obvious even to the most slow-witted that there are infinitely more than four people on this site who disagree with you.

Perhaps you were referring to the fact that more than four posters on this site recognise you for what you really are?
77

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 11:32:47
75

They are your figures sunshine not mine I think they are on the low side but that is irrelevant to the point.
78

brownlie,

07/07/2008 11:34:36
Highland Mighty

I see you've come up with another moniker in Ugly George - how appropriate is that?
79

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07/07/2008 11:35:03
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Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 11:37:52
71 Mister N
I have told you twice that the revenue from oil is not 75% of all the sales yet you persist in using this figure to justify your arguments. And you then have the temerity to say that others have their head in the sand. Go and look at the BERR oil and gas website and get some knowledge of these matters before you insult others.
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07/07/2008 11:39:15
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Ugly George,

edinburgh 07/07/2008 11:40:06
79 Brownlie
No he has not. I am a totally separate individual. What point are you trying tto make?
83

brownlie,

07/07/2008 11:47:39
84 Ugly George

Deepest apologies, it was the "ugly" part that threw me - I thought that perhaps HM was telling the truth for once.

You must be aware that HM uses multiple monikers in order to make it look as if some-one agrees with him.

Those who do are possibly not aware that he is a deceitful devious individual who further stains the already tarnished face of unionism.
84

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07/07/2008 11:47:47
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 11:52:17
81 82

This from the Guardian 4th May 2008.

Oil was discovered in the North Sea in the late 1960s, with production peaking in 1999 at about 4.5 million barrels per day. The oil fields have yielded 36 billion barrels to date. Since then, production has declined every year. Currently it stands at about 3 million barrels per day and is forecast to decline about 10 per cent by the end of the decade.

Just in case you missed it that is 3 millionBPD not 1.2mbpd as you stated. Now take those figures above and mulitply them by 2.

86

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 07/07/2008 11:54:52
#86 I've often thought we should pipe the fine Loch Ness waters to England via a VERY BIG water meter.

But since Historic Scotland built a hideous visitor centre at Urquhart Castle locals have often spotted "floating objects" of human origin from the insufficient toilets that cater for the 240,000 od annual visitors.
87

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 11:55:39
91

Is that a reason not to send it South then?
88

Mcsnagpile,

07/07/2008 11:56:00
You can all bicker and moan

Oil lasting for fifty years means that there will be enough to boil a kettle in 50 years time—fifty tears is more like it. Slowly ebbing away until the last trip on the 4XD to the Mall.
With globalization, WWW, Satt’lte Telly, there is no chance of our civilization surviving for twenty years in its present form. Giving there are 6.75 Billion souls on this earth; humanity is a tall order. Everybody knows we are getting a new Tram.

I have an advantage—I lived in a mud hut in the jungle without A/C,, without main power supplies for days (they are called brown outs), no toilets, no fresh water.
I lived in a wooden hut over the river with a hole in the floor for a toilet and a sea of mud outside the door. I sat on the floor and ate with my hands. No dishes only banana leaves. Try having the runs when there is no toilet.
Did enjoy the long houses in the Rain Forrest.
I have seen the refuse collectors lifting unclaimed bodies destined for the landfill site.
I have even had a communal shower with 100 Koreans. Do not drop the soap.
So I can survive $600 oil.
89

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 11:57:49
94

The latest predictions are 100 years.
90

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07/07/2008 11:59:08
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07/07/2008 12:01:01
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07/07/2008 12:02:49
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07/07/2008 12:03:50
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07/07/2008 12:05:03
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07/07/2008 12:05:54
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07/07/2008 12:06:35
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 12:07:54
102

I didnt say I believed it anymore than I believe your links like I keep telling you these stats and figures are all government derived and worthless I posted that to show the inconsistancy of these stats and figures even from the same sources.
Its all bullsh*t and we both know it difference is you want to perpetuate the lie whereas I want to expose it.
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07/07/2008 12:10:24
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 07/07/2008 12:12:01
#94 Yeah the open lavvies over the river are tough; they have them on the Amazon as well and the piranhas are attracted by urine, as well as a parasite that can swim and jump right up your wotsit. With stuff like that to worry about it puts $145 barrels into context.
100

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 12:16:32
96

They are referring to the UK sector only you f*ckwit.
Norway was raking in more than 4 million barrels a day on its own at its peak.
What a t*at.
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07/07/2008 12:16:54
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07/07/2008 12:21:30
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 12:24:48
115

Oh aye and you really shine on here right enough your a credit to this paper for sure.
104

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07/07/2008 12:25:44
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,

07/07/2008 12:26:08
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 12:27:59
119

You must have read it because you commented on it?
You dont have to keep proving your an idiot the points been made enough times already.
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07/07/2008 12:29:53
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07/07/2008 12:31:55
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07/07/2008 12:32:02
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07/07/2008 12:34:13
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07/07/2008 12:34:38
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 12:35:28
123

I saw it the first half dozen times you put it up and my opinion on it hasnt changed since.
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07/07/2008 12:35:44
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07/07/2008 12:38:02
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 12:39:17
123

You are obviously referring to this part?

This material is published by The Royal Bank of Scotland plc (“RBS”) which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority for the conduct of regulated activities in the UK. It has been prepared forinformation purposes only and does not constitute a solicitation or an offer to buy or sell any securities, related investments, other financial instruments or related derivatives (“Securities”). It should not be reproduced ordisclosed to any other person, without our prior consent.
This material is not intended for distribution in any jurisdiction in which its distribution would be prohibited.
Whilst this information is believed to be reliable, it has not been independently verified by RBS and RBS makes no representation, express or implied, nor does it accept any responsibility or liability of any kind, with regard to the accuracy or completeness of this information. Unless otherwise stated, any views, opinions, forecasts, valuations, or estimates contained in this material are those solely of the RBS Group’s Group EconomicsDepartment, as of the date of publication of this material and are subject to change without notice. Recipients of this material should make their own independent evaluation of this information and make such otherinvestigations as they consider necessary (including obtaining independent financial advice), before acting in reliance on this information.
This material should not be regarded as providing any specific advice. RBS accepts no obligation to provide any advice or recommendations in respect of the information contained in this material and accepts no fiduciary duties to the recipient in relation to this information.

I posted this to you a couple of days ago seems you just want to troll over the same sh*t again and again.

Of course you dont work for this worthless rag.
116

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07/07/2008 12:39:41
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 12:41:11
132

Like the FACT above in post 131?
118

European Scot,

07/07/2008 12:57:12
Setting aside all the little percentages for a moment, just try some some good old fashioned common sense, and logic.
When the McCrone report was written, ( around 1974 ) oil prices were in the region of $16 a barrel.
Even allowing for inflation, and the drop in the dollar, it would be difficult to imagine that the conclusions drawn at the time, by this very secretive little professor, have in any way been negated, by now having oil at around $140 a barrel.
The lifetime of oil reserves in the North Sea are now estimated to be as much as 100 years.
Another point worth considering, is what kind of advances are going to be made over the next few decades, in oil recovery technology.
Oil that is not accessible today, could well be pumped ashore in future, and that would extend the life of North Sea Oil even further.
With oil at around $140 a barrel, an Independent Scotland would have a sound basis on which to build up its economy, just as our secretive little professor indicated in his report all those years ago.

From 'the Independent' report Dec 2005:-
BP discovered the giant Forties oil field in 1970 - by 1977 it was producing 500,000 barrels of oil a day. The Yom Kippur War forced prices up to around $16 a barrel.
Mid 1970s, international convention agreed that the North Sea, north of the 55th parallel was under Scottish jurisdiction. 90 per cent of the UK's oil and gas reserves fell within Scottish waters.
At the time of Professor McCrone's report to the cabinet office, the SNP claimed that North Sea Oil would yield £800 million a year for the government by 1980.
Professor McCrone's main criticism of their analysis was that their forecasts were "far too low". He put the sum at about £3 billion.
Read more:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/how-black-gold-was-hijacked-north-sea-oil-and-the-betrayal-of-scotland-518697.html
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07/07/2008 13:06:21
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07/07/2008 13:15:38
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 07/07/2008 13:16:09
Reading this thread I feel like I'm in Alice in Wonderland territory. The oil off Scotland's coast is the property of Scotland 100%. That is not exactly rocket science to figure out and if England doesn't like it: tough.
122

European Scot,

07/07/2008 13:16:54
137

A short answer, as you were polite for once.
I'll leave the estimates to experts, one quoted here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2131258/North-Sea-oil-will-last-for-100-years%27.html
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07/07/2008 13:24:09
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 13:31:00
The Nationalists commenting are little more than greedy children. Their posts have little to do with Scotland and everything to do with bitterness regarding having to share resources with countries we have had a Union with for three centuries.

It is UK oil and gas. Just as when the oil is tapped at the Falklands that will be UK oil and Scotland will benefit, the same way Scotland benefitted from welsh coal or Cornwall tin in past centuries.

I deplore those so greedy and selfish as to want to become independent to they can live ever so slightly better off for a decade or so.
125

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07/07/2008 13:52:54
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 13:55:15
147 Methalions

Where did YOU read that?

I sad "slightly better off for a decade or so", Scotland is not just oil income you know.

Are you one of these deluded madmen that thinks we can live off of the oil for 100 years? Oil magically keeping us in surplus despite our public sector and benefit cheats.
127

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07/07/2008 13:57:25
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 13:59:10
148

Those are somebodies predictions not facts nobody predicted the effect the Iraq and Afgan war would have on todays oil production did they?
If I remember right it was the same w*nkers who predicted that N S oil would run out in 30 years and that was 10 years ago. Now its predicted to last 100 years.
So you know where you can stick your crystal ball.

Oil production is already down to a third of 1999 levels of 2.9m bpd.

Not according to that guardian story I gave you. Seems there is a conflict in views and figures.
Todays level is 3m bpd so it seems this so called peak has already been repeaked.
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 14:06:53
146

Sharing resourses? why dont you go and ask the Saudis to share their resourses with you in fact why dont you go ask any other country in the world to share their resourses with you and see what they say.
Another dumba*rse unionist
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 14:13:09
152 MisterN

What are you talking about Saudi arabia? Great Britain is the nation state, so your analogy with asking Saudi is insane.
131

Jock ex 45Cdo RM,

THORNHILL 07/07/2008 14:13:15
Hen Broon, please get a 'new' pen-name. Hen and Joe Broon's names are the pen-names of Gordon and Desmond Broon.
Can everyone who is in contact with a poltitian of any Party, propose that the combined Tax of VAT and VED be capped to the year 2000.
This will measure the management !
Why oh why does the Treasury need the Tax increases every time one hypes the price up? I would be very pleased if anyone out there can anseer this.
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 14:16:53
155

Great Britain is a treaty state not a nation state.
Sorry to burst yer bubble.
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Tris,

07/07/2008 14:19:29
#149

".......Oil magically keeping us in surplus despite our public sector and benefit cheats."


erm would you like to add MP expenses cheats to your list.

I wonder how many benefit cheats it takes to make up for one Winterton (and there are two of them), or Conway....
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07/07/2008 14:21:31
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Conan the Librarian™,

07/07/2008 14:21:41
138

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44523000/jpg/_44523464_labourcard203.jpg

HeHe.
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07/07/2008 14:22:35
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 14:30:38
159 162

http://www.cbd.int/world/ratification.shtml

HM do you eat your young with the same gusto youre forced to eat your own posts?
138

LEAL,

07/07/2008 14:35:31
How much is the daily revenue fromthe North Sea?
139

The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 14:36:21
163 MisterN

"Convention on biological diversity" Oh my god, you're an idiot with a search engine. That is frickin' hilarious.
140

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 14:38:01
164

Its a Government kept secret.
141

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 14:41:04
165

And youre a troll who will never aspire that high.
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 14:44:45
167 MisterN

Don't be like that, that is funny that you hold up a website on "The Convention on Biological Diversity" as the authorotative guide on legal definitions.

Classic! No trolling about it, you really are a clown with a search engine. Call it as you see it.
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brownlie,

07/07/2008 14:44:54
140 British Pride? Highland Mighty?

"I love these boards"

I'll bet you do - its the only way you get any attention in your sad little life!

Any decent person found telling lies on this thread would be too embarassed to post but you go on trotting out the tripe.

You are probably the biggest asset the SNP have on this thread and you do the cause you support no favours at all.

Posters on this site should just ignore you and let you play with yourself in your sad little world.
144

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 14:45:06
Its like shooting fish in a f*cking barrel.
145

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 14:47:10
168

the part I find hilarious is the fact that the treaty of union fits right in there like a glove.
Now thats funny.
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 14:49:29
Mister N

I'm sorry for mocking you. With all your anologies about Saudi Arabis and Biological Diversity I thought I would make amends my sharing this link with you.

It has commentary on how the rising price of oil is affecting the price of cheese in Singapore, feel free to use it in the future to demonstrate how well informed you are.

http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/286971?page=8
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 14:53:30
172

In this parallel universe of yours where you live in the country of Great Britain are you mocking me? because all I see here is you making an a*se of yourself.
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 14:56:39
173 MisterN

Don't be like that, I was hoping we could talk about the price of cheese in Singapore, Saudi Arabia and The Convention on Biological Diversity's internpretation of international law.

It is so rare to encounter a informed man of such razor sharp wit as yourself, that I thought I might pick your brain on the price of cheese in Singapore, in the geopolitical context of rising energy costs and what this means for Scotland.
149

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 14:59:02
174

Is one troll on this blog no enough? or are you just the same troll on a new tack?
150

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 07/07/2008 15:02:09
#173

The vast majority of us live in one part of Great Britain or another.
151

MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 15:05:54
176

All of us live in one part of Europe so what?
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07/07/2008 15:10:13
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Dueronomy,

North Briton 07/07/2008 15:14:51
#175 MisterN,

If you could only just accept that you are a resident of that part of the United Kingdom known as North Briton you would stop getting your sporran in a twist and would stop calling everyone who has a different viewpoint to yours a troll
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07/07/2008 15:26:46
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Shaken,

07/07/2008 15:55:12
Highland Mighty - control your rectum!

You daily provide evidence in black and white that your cerebral cortex is located in your rectum.

Your rectum expounds outmoded concepts and jibes at the 'Nats' - according to some in Labour they sacrifice virgin children at the full moon.

Your backside also has uncontrolled flatulence in reitterating Labour lies and propaganda.

As with most anuses yours has no optical power so cannot see the corruption, mismanagement and suicidal financial management the govt have delivered.

Finally, as with any sphincter you have nothing but gas and half digested rubbish with no follow through.

Vive la SNP!
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07/07/2008 15:58:24
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Shaken,

07/07/2008 15:59:48
Highland Mighty

I enjoy your inflated sense of self which is so reminiscent of a public school Englishman. I think the level of arrogance and ignorance you display converts a new person to the SNP everyday.

You have no arguement

No point

No guile

Vive la SNP!
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Shaken,

07/07/2008 16:07:51
Sorry Highland Mighty

#182 was too analagous for you?
Let me break it down.

Your on a website called the Scotsman - you are English

We are tired of your opinion and stand point. Why?

Because it's the same excrement we've heard for 300 years.

Britain is great. Scotland never had it so good.

Scots are lazy, Nationalists are crazy. Labour stands for the people - It actualy makes me laugh. Carry on as I have said you make a convert every day.

Now enter your glib comment..

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07/07/2008 16:12:19
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The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/07/2008 16:15:36
#11 The comparison you make is deceptive. Norway has a substantially larger surplus (some £44 billion in the current year) compared to scotland (estimated at a possible £4.4 billion at current market prices). The reason for this difference is not only the higher taxes and lower public expenditure that the Norwegians have but alos the fact that they still have a substantial stake in the extraction of North Sea Oil through the state-owned Statoil.

Unless there were a radical overhaul in fiscal policy in Scotland as well as a major restructuring of the oil industry any talk of building up a petroleum fund on par with Norway's is pure fantasy.
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Conan the Librarian™,

07/07/2008 16:29:27
That would be no fun Meths.Get my card?
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The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/07/2008 16:31:44
#188 Afternoon Meths - there's more likelyhood ofAlex Salmond standing for Labour in Glasgow East than everyone being nice to each other here!!
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Nik,

Embra 07/07/2008 16:31:55
Happy Birthday, Meths!

http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Happy-Birthday-Cake/Detail.aspx
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brownlie,

07/07/2008 16:37:03
188 Meths

Happy birthday Meths xxx
Hope you make the 200 before Conan - he's waiting in the wings!
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LEAL,

07/07/2008 16:37:53
In an oil rich country like Scotlandis it right that we have so many areas of poverty and poor housing?Reports from canvassers in Glasgow East suggest the people there think it most certainly think it is not right.
Come on Labour.You have 17 days to persuade the people of Glasgow East what you are going to do for them to make things better.If one of them asks you why London should get the oil money,what will you tell them?
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The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/07/2008 16:38:04
#192 One week down - 6 to go!!

:D
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Shaken,

07/07/2008 16:38:18
#186

Ah I see what you've done.

Taken one sentence and made a glib comment about it. Very New labour to ignore that which is uncomfortable reading.

Lets drill down on the whole post then:

1. We (scots) would never survive financially or politically
2. We (scots) benefit greatly from being part of the union
3. Nats are 'crazy'

These I would say are your points. The same thing I've heard for over 20 years.

Can I just record an opinion that is your own as opposed to insults?



168

Scottish 'N British,

07/07/2008 16:41:29
Observation: Norway has a stake in its fields - Scotland doesn't - therefore Salmond's 'take' on how much is waiting to be ploughed into his fund events is false.

And anyway, the issue is irrelevant, as poll after poll (bar the ones set up by the SNP) show that between 70 and 75% of Scots voters (that's you and me, peeps) are happy living, working, playing and paying taxes to, Great Britain.

Thankfully.
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Conan the Librarian™,

07/07/2008 16:43:25
193
How...
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Conan the Librarian™,

07/07/2008 16:43:53
193
...dare...
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Conan the Librarian™,

07/07/2008 16:44:27
193
...you;-)
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brownlie,

07/07/2008 16:51:45
200 Conan

Swine!! you'll probably fine Meths for a late return!
173

European Scot,

07/07/2008 16:51:53
197

We'll try and remember you trolled us so
Especially after the Referendum.
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07/07/2008 16:56:58
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brownlie,

07/07/2008 17:01:59
202 Meths

I was trying to write a silly and nonsensical post like British Pride - it's not easy but I have not had as much practice!
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Nikostratos,

07/07/2008 17:07:09
#205 brownlie

Oh i dont know some times your "silly and nonsensical post" are as silly and nonsensical as they can get almost as good or bad? as meths
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brownlie,

07/07/2008 17:12:03
208 Nikos

Thanks, coming from you I regard that as the nicest thing I've heard all day!!
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07/07/2008 17:13:11
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Nikostratos,

07/07/2008 17:13:36
Anyway how much a litre is unleaded in espana meths just out of Curiosity..........Have put one of me cars (the big 1.8 Si red one) in the skip saved a fortune.

£££££££££££ha ha ha ha 'Freedom'

#210 brownlie

Wot? bah!
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 07/07/2008 17:20:22
Another thing: Iraq owes us a good few £hundred billion in war reparations. So we should be tapping the oil and sending it over here free for the foreseeable future.
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brownlie,

07/07/2008 17:21:00
212 Nikos

It's a pity it does not run on hot air. British Pride could help you out.

Was that meant to be "Eeh bah gum"?
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Conan the Librarian™,

07/07/2008 17:24:05
213
Labour 8/11

SNP Evens

Libs 66/1

Con 100/1
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Nikostratos,

07/07/2008 17:24:14
#213

Oh yeah i hadnt considered the Euro getting stronger......not so good after all no need for me to be envious now.......
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Truely English,

07/07/2008 17:34:01
It must give everyone on this thread a lot of satisfaction that over a Billion people speak the English language which of course includes the Scots.

The British need to be thankful to all the Scots down the generations who helped to make this a reality.

I realise that some Scots see themselves different from the English and this somehow justifies their need for a seperate state.
Maybe, what is needed is for the English language to be changed in Scotland to the Scots language to make them feel different rather than be the same as the English.

Why they should feel so strongly about being different from the English when we have so much in common.
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07/07/2008 17:39:45
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 07/07/2008 17:40:57
#219 Take a hike. We've just shelled out £millions up here for road signs to be changed to show English and Gaelic - like anybody speaks Gaelic who doesn't speak also English. Don't make me laugh.

What a total waste of money that could have been spent on elderly care etc.
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Truely English,

07/07/2008 17:43:56
221
Couldn't agree more.

Like I said we are all the same.

Who said the Scots like Garlic?
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07/07/2008 17:44:57
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Truely English,

07/07/2008 17:45:05
222 Sorry Gaelic
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 07/07/2008 17:59:10
I get so sick of this rubbish about the United Kingdom. It's a mess and needs finishing. Full stop.

I mean, you've got two islands: the tiny one is called Eire and Northern Ireland. Look at it, it's a wasteful joke so just stop it and sow it back together.

The bigger part is called England, Wales and Scotland. Since they all have an individual history and identity let them each run their own affairs. And give the Scots compensation for the decades of theft of their north sea oil and their fisheries.

End of argument folks.
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ThomasP,

07/07/2008 18:05:27
#227

Scottish MP's or not Scottish MP's, the Labour Party would remain in power at Westminister.

Scotland will never vote in enough Tories into power and yet we bare the brunt of them untill the English down south get fed up with them.
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Truely English,

07/07/2008 18:46:11
It is clear that there is litle or no difference between the Scots and the English.

We are all the same people with the same anguage and culture.
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The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 07/07/2008 18:50:00
"Mr Brown has warned that rich nations must not abandon their commitment to tackling climate change and world poverty because of tougher economic conditions.

Amid fears that previous pledges on aid to Africa and carbon emissions could scaled back, he insisted they should in fact be accelerated."

Trust Brown to get everything @rse about face. His favourite monologue is about climate change and the other one is TX which of course goes along with the other one.

Only a fool continues to do things which are demonstrably stupid yet he wants to accelerate the rate at which our hard earned taxes are poured into Africa. There is no hope for that continent until the African nations themselves take responsibility and sort out their own problems. When they can demonstrate a decent level of treatment of their own citizens and the corruption element is rooted out so the generosity is not being poured into the Swiss accounts of Mugabe, Mbeki et al then it may be time to offer strictly supervised aid in tangible form, NOT MONEY.
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ThomasP,

07/07/2008 18:52:52
231 Truely English.

Then explain the situation between Scotland and England, Scottish Nationalists and English Nationalists.
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Truely English,

07/07/2008 18:52:58
233
Please tell us how the Scots are different from the English?
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ThomasP,

07/07/2008 18:57:15
235 Truely English.

Scots are born Leaders. That is why Scots eventually become Leaders of Britain. Tony Blair, Gordon Brown (not a very good one but a leader), and soon to be David Cameron (born in England but came from a Scottish Clan)

The English arnt.
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Boab,

Glasgow 07/07/2008 18:59:21
disputed presidential elections ... rogue states ... Jesus, when are Gordo and Dubya finally going to p1ss off and retire to their mansions?
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john z,

edinburgh 07/07/2008 19:00:34
Yes, they are all in Japan, as the European Parliament sneakily without warning or discussion passes some very strong Internet spying and anti-privacy laws, that will affect every single person, criminal or not, in Europe. These new laws will legally oblige every single ISP to monitor where everyone goes and what they do on the internet 24/7
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07/07/2008 19:30:03
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07/07/2008 19:37:13
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 19:41:06
Thanks for the essay McMadman, I can't bothered reading because you have proven yourself to be incapable of even composing a High Scholl students report.

PS I hopw you haven't been relying on Convention for Biological Diversity websites again you numbskull.
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07/07/2008 19:45:05
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07/07/2008 19:47:50
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 19:49:59
242

Why don't you shut up. You are a bore, your facts are wrong, your sources are mince, you are an academic failure, your rhetoric is cheap and you display outbursts of emotion that reflect your thuggery.

I know democracy means even uneducated citizens get a go, but can you crop your posts, keep them relevant etc?
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07/07/2008 19:53:02
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07/07/2008 19:55:00
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 20:01:19
246 Talking to yourself again? Second sign of madness, first sign is writing essays that are full if sh!t, that no-one reads.

Free speech applies to me and my sritique of your uneducated attempts at political/economic analysis, so why don't you f*ck off to some country that tolerates uneducated grunts with shte for brains and a chip on each shoulder.

Until then, I will continue to point out your obvious failings. By the way you never did anser the question, why did you choose the Convention for Biological Diversity's website as your choice of evidence?

Go on, you're not likt Highland Mighty, you don't duck the questions, why DID you choose that website?

I can tell you why he didn't answer the question, he knows he's just an idiot with google.
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07/07/2008 20:08:34
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 20:14:27
248

See your post at 163. Why DID you use the Convention for Biological Diversity's website?

Why are you ducking the question?

(We all know the answer, you are an idiot with a search engine)
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European Scot,

07/07/2008 20:16:00
238 john z

" Yes, they are all in Japan, as the European Parliament sneakily without warning or discussion passes some very strong Internet spying and anti-privacy laws, that will affect every single person, criminal or not, in Europe. These new laws will legally oblige every single ISP to monitor where everyone goes and what they do on the internet 24/7 "

I think you'll find that a Government database is being planned in the UK.
It will hold details of all phone calls, e-mails, and time spent on the Internet.
Westminster, will be bringing in a data communications bill in November, which will oblige Telecoms companies, and Internet Providers, to annually give such details of their customers, to the Home Office.
All in the name of countering terrorism you understand.
Don't just blame Europe, you should take a closer look on your own doorstep, at Big Brother UK !

More on here:-

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article3965033.ece
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07/07/2008 20:17:57
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 20:20:46
251 McMadman

I told you your post at 163 was totally irrelevant and you continue to duck the question, why DID YOU think it was relevant?

Only an idiot with a search engine would post links to the "Convention for Biological Diversity" trying to prove a point on constitutional law. I submit that idiot is you sir!

You are quite the entertainer, I may be back later to play with you some more, I find your blanket denial Pythonseque.

*DISCLAIMER: The Pythons knew they were impersonating idiots.
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07/07/2008 20:22:48
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07/07/2008 20:30:55
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07/07/2008 20:35:06
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Truely English,

07/07/2008 20:36:53
234
There are no differences between the Scottish and English Nationalists.

236
Clearly the Scots are leaders within a British or Empire context.
Few if any seem to make it in Scotland.
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Truely English,

07/07/2008 20:38:37
236
If the Scots were so different they could not make it to the top within England.
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07/07/2008 20:41:40
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07/07/2008 20:49:59
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07/07/2008 20:53:23
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ThomasP,

07/07/2008 20:55:18
257 Truely English.

Then why are there reports stating that there are to many Scots in cabinet? Four out of 23...
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07/07/2008 20:57:47
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07/07/2008 21:03:39
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Truely English,

07/07/2008 21:03:46
It is clear that Mcmadman has no answer to the Scots being British, the same as the English and there is no difference whatsoever between the two places.
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07/07/2008 21:03:46
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Truely English,

07/07/2008 21:08:09
263
Portugal and Brazil are not joined together in the same landmass like Scotland and England are.

English and Scots grew out of the same language and culture.

There are hundreds of different tribes in Brazil who have no common ancestry with Portugal.

Scotland and England are the same.
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07/07/2008 21:25:30
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ThomasP,

07/07/2008 21:30:17
275 Truely English.

Quite alot of Scots came from Ireland originally.

So, Scotland and England are not linked culturally or are quite the same.

but by according to your view countries with the same culture should be together.

Then I guess Scotland should join the RoI and Northern Ireland, yeah?
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The Pict.,

07/07/2008 21:33:16
# 275 truely English. Scotland is made up of Celtic & Picts ( the original indigenous people of Scotland). There is a smattering of other nationalities as well. If you mean that both the Scots and English languages has the common root of LOW GERMAN you are correct. As for the culture and modern day languages you better get an education. We Scots have a culture...you English don't unless you are talking about your Jamaican jazz bands etc.
Perhaps before spouting off what you don't know about Scotland do some studying and include Highland mighty as he can use a lot of help.

Slainte'
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Trade-wind,

USA 07/07/2008 21:37:47
#238 john Z
You know if we just keep on keeping on and take no action to root out the Terrorists ie. monitoring the
ISPs and telephone co. records you could just possibly have you Family jewels blown sky high. Do you honestly think they have nothing better to do than listen to you chat with your girl friend so they can run and tell your wife. The process is such that streams of transmissions are filtered for key words and it is done so fast no human could listen to it. ***IF*** the computer filters pick up on a word like Bomb, explosion or killing., then that conversation would be kick out to a human being to listen to until it can be assertained that it is or isn't something serious. At that point the listener hangs up and goes on to the next key word that has been kicked out. You have some dark fear that your government wants to listen to your jibberish. The staffing to do what you think it is to do
would be many thousands of individuals, possibly hundred thousands of individuals listening 24 hours a day. No remotely possible from a economic stand point if nothing else. I'm sorry you have to live with such fear of your government, but imagine if we just do nothing and we were somehow overtaken and the terrorists were to become your new government. BOY your rights would suffer big time. However, I don't think you would be wise to complain at that point, as they might put your head on a pike.
Have a wonderful and paranoid day.
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07/07/2008 21:42:32
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07/07/2008 21:45:10
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Truely English,

07/07/2008 21:56:55
278
You say the English don't have a culture, yet whatever is written or sung in the English language is English culture.

The Emperor didn't have any clothes on. Wake up and see the English culture in everything that is done. Are you both blind and deaf.

What do you mean by culture?
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07/07/2008 22:01:00
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07/07/2008 22:01:37
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Conan the Librarian™,

07/07/2008 22:12:58
284
With apologies to Ian Fleming, et al.

Troll post's sound like what they are
So do nutters in a dodgy bar
Unionest men have a Unionest sound, we've found
Oil is worthless and whisky is tart
tells you what they are right from the start
And your name does the same for you
By coincidence, Truley English
You're truley truley English
English as a warming bitter beer.
When your near us
It's so delicious
Honest Truley, you're the answer to our wishes
Truley English
Though we may seem presumptuous
Never, never, ever go away
Our hearts beat so unruly
Because we love you truley
Honest Truley, we do...
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MisterN,

Scotland 07/07/2008 22:26:13
282

"yet whatever is written or sung in the English language is English culture."

Such as the star spangled banner for instance?
or Advance Austrailia fair?
or Go defend New Zealand?
or O Canada?

All wonderful examples of English culture and all writen as a celebration of their Independence from English culture we will no doubt add Flower of Scotland soon enough to celebrate our Independence from this so called English culture.

Fish and chips anyone?
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Truely English,

07/07/2008 22:33:48
286
Is not Scotland's culture in English as well? Did Robert Burns not write or create poetry in English?

Robert L. Stevenson wrote in English did he not? Or was it another language like Mongolian? Of course, it was English?
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07/07/2008 22:35:49
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07/07/2008 22:36:04
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Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 22:42:21
Scotsman July 7th 2008
Pleased to see that my favourite phrase $xyz a Barrel and Rising has been taken up by the Scotsman. I often shorten it but the key word is the same: RISING

Despite minor slippage (e.g. $146 to $143, now $145) the overall direction is UP.

Highland Mighty and other unionists can muddy the waters to the best of their ability but their cause, the good ship Britannia will continue to be holed below the water line by the inexorable rise in the price of Oil, particularly SCOTTISH Oil.
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 22:52:26
290 Brian Hill

What are you on about? The argument about independence isn't about who's best tomorrow. Whether Scotland, England or Wales contributes more or less in 2008.

It is only this immature, selfish and pathetic in your head and the cult of Nationalism.

Being British is about more than cash you tit. It's cultural.
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Truely English,

07/07/2008 22:58:41
291
You are so correct. Being British is about more than cash. It's cultural.

The Nats don't have one cultural hair on their body that is anything other than English and they just can't see it.
They are so blind to language and culture that it simply does not dawn on them that money and finance does not make them different in any way.
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Conan the Librarian™,

07/07/2008 23:02:41
291
And of course British culture, as it subsumes, then ignores/patronises Scots culture is superior?

And will you lie on your back and let your tummy be tickled when American culture subsumes British?
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 23:08:12
293 Conan

I celebrate Scottish culture, Brittish culture and have on occasion enjoyed a cheese burger. But then so too have I enjoyed a Kebab or a curry.

Take your head out of your derrier. The only reason you feel threatened on a cultural level is because your head is empty, like the pathetic teenager you are a rebel without a cause, because your life is a hollow shell.

And why do you get to tell me who I am? Nothing to stop you being Scottish, nothing at all.
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Conan the Librarian™,

07/07/2008 23:17:31
294
So your interpretation of a people's culture is what they eat?
And when did I "tell" you who you were?
But I will now.

You are of course by your general rudeness and arrogance Highland Mighty.

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European Scot,

07/07/2008 23:21:43
293 Conan the Librarian

291 " Being British is about more than cash you tit. It's cultural."

Ah British culture, such a stunning example !

Remembering your joke about the Range Rover, I think one of them got out !
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 23:23:05
295

You told me that being British is being ignorant or patronising to Scots, demonstrably not true.

Culture has a lot to do with food, but then again you'd have us all eating haggis suppers on the way home, right?

Those bloody Turks comin' oor 'ere an' puttin' the haggis out o' business as the post-pub scran.

You belong in the BNP with your, if it ain't from aroun' 'ere it wants to subsume.
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,

07/07/2008 23:24:52
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 23:27:00
298

If you remember you were asking me to answer questions and justify Highland Mighties position? Because I was another "unionist", in your words.

So why can't I ask you to justify Nationalist positions? So go on, justify then, what are you waiting for.
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07/07/2008 23:27:55
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ThomasP,

07/07/2008 23:28:29
291 The Great Deception.

"It is only this immature, selfish and pathetic in your head and the cult of Nationalism. Being British is about more than cash you tit. It's cultural."

300 years is not enough to cover the thousands of years Scotland has had as an Independent Country. Your little rant barely scrapes the Nationalists thoughts but show how much of a threat the SNP have become since you put in alot of effort to bad mouth them.

292 Truely English.

I hope you are not actually English. You are a reason why Scots turn into anti-English mobs and you have the cheek to complain about the murders and beatings against the English later. You seriosly provoke everyone who classes themselves as Scottish by implying they are English.

Thankfully the English are actually grown up and I have not met any that considers Scots as English and they also recognise the differences between our countries.
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07/07/2008 23:28:59
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07/07/2008 23:31:10
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Conan the Librarian™,

07/07/2008 23:32:10
297
You have a point, food has got a lot to do with culture.
Shall we go for an English?
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,

07/07/2008 23:35:32
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 23:43:10
304

You really are an idiot...

Fish and chips, Yorkshire Pud, Mushy peas, Full English Breakfast, Bangers and mash, ...

The list goes on and on, but because your head is stuck up your backside you deny that the English have ever created recipes.

You need help.
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 23:45:31
305

I have only made two remarks about the economy of an Independent Scotland.

1) It would be slightly better off in the short term.

2) There is more to being Scottish/British than cash.

I am sticking to that. I am not a greedy brat or spoilt child like yourself. I owe Britain a great deal and am proud to be British, I owe the same gratitude to Scotland. I hope to remain both.
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07/07/2008 23:46:12
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Conan the Librarian™,

07/07/2008 23:47:28
306
And because your head is up yours, you didn't get my reference...

And if I need help, I have friends...
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Conan the Librarian™,

07/07/2008 23:48:41
308
Well thanks McMadman...I think.
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 07/07/2008 23:48:51
Crisis, what crisis? House prices are returning to normal. Oil is high in price. Petrol pump prices is what the new-age cavemen want. We'll all enjoy the bracing walk to the local farm shop.

Then I can have a last laugh at Glasgow East - the last place in the universe to be linked by 20th century motorway after the fuel has run out.
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07/07/2008 23:50:34
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truthsleuth,

07/07/2008 23:50:48
Brown is correct food IS being wasted but as usual the media spin it to read 'the Nanny State'
The purpose of Government is to govern.

The problem is the people of these nations have become greedy and do not like to be 'advised' of this or of any other unpleasant fact and 'shoot the messenger.

One day we will stop shooting the messenger and READ the message.
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ThomasP,

07/07/2008 23:50:49
307 The Great Deception.

There is more to being Scottish then cash, hence why Scottish Nationalists have hoped for an Independent Scotland for decades...wayy before oil etc etc
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,

07/07/2008 23:53:29
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 23:53:55
314

What prevents you from being Scottish?
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truthsleuth,

07/07/2008 23:54:47
The Nationalists continually ask for data
Let them tell us how their figures for the next budget work out with/without 'Scottish Oil'and the level of tax
PS I am not Nationalist nor Labour or any other political party supporter.
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07/07/2008 23:55:48
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The Great Deception,

07/07/2008 23:59:19
318

Those questions are aimed at someone else you tit.

My belief is that Scotland would be slightly better off in the short term as I have stated twice.

You really are off your fecking rocker, I think you like ranting even if there is nothing to rant about, you like the sound of your own voice.
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Conan the Librarian™,

08/07/2008 00:13:17
319
How long is the short time then?
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08/07/2008 00:30:13
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ThomasP,

08/07/2008 00:40:39
316 The Great Deception.

"What prevents you from being Scottish?"

By people insisting that I am British when I simply do not support 'being British' at all.

When I choose to become a Scottish Nationalist I suddenly become enemy No1 and suffer disgusting comments from those who disagree with my stance.
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08/07/2008 00:44:19
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08/07/2008 00:47:43
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jazzmann,

leicester 08/07/2008 12:32:27
This corrupt pack of politicians are not letting you know about the millions of barrels of oil within the Falklands protectorate. I wonder if it has to do with the increase of Argentinian incursions ( up over 300% this year )or could it be we just don`t have the troops or equiptment to do anything about it ? Notice how very Quiet ALL the media has been over this ? can`t embarrass the political paymasters can they ? Notice the lack of reason for comments being removed ?
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wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 08/07/2008 21:44:41
Blair and Brown's lying corrupt New Labour Party has been feeding the dis-united UK with nothing but a pack off carefully prepared lies about why they are making the less well off pay for the spiralling price increases they are responsible for in fuel and essential food-stuffs. If they hadn't followed the Yanks into their two undeclared wars in Iraq and Afghanistan killing their innocent men, women and children we wouldn;t be in the plight we find ourselves in today. The oil producing nations have got them over a barrel and now have the the upper hand over them with their control over the money markets and can wreck both economies at will, without having to fire a shot. Yes, the lying Brown trots out daily parrot fashion, the same old lies there is a shortage off oil, climate change and global financial problems as the reason, when in fact, they are the real problem!

 

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