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Blair to join Catholic church 'in weeks'

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Published Date: 09 November 2007
By RHIANNON EDWARD
TONY Blair, the former prime minister, is set to become a Roman Catholic within weeks, it emerged yesterday.
Mr Blair, currently an Anglican, is expected to be received into the church in a mass at the private chapel of Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, the Archbishop of Westminster.

His wife, Cherie, and four children are Catholics and the family have w
orshipped together for years.

In one of his final acts as premier, Mr Blair met Pope Benedict and was believed to have told him of his determination to leave the Church of England.

The move was disclosed by the Catholic weekly The Tablet, which said the service would be held this month.

Mr Blair's spokesman did not deny the story, but said: "This is the same old speculation."

However, a friend said it was "not without substance".

His move will divide Catholics. As an MP Mr Blair voted for abortion at up to 24 weeks.

All four of the Blair children were baptised as Catholics and the whole family used to attend mass at St Joan of Arc Church in Islington, north London.

After becoming prime minister in 1997 he was told to stop taking Holy Communion by the late Cardinal Hume, then leader of Catholics in England and Wales.

He continued to attend private masses with Fr Michael Seed, a Westminster priest.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 November 2007 9:41 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Tony Blair's leadership
 
1

Conan the Librarian™,

09/11/2007 00:14:10

Ah...I'm desperate,Dan.

2

somerferg,

oz 09/11/2007 00:19:34

WHO CARES ???

3

Stephen101,

Cleanse yourself Tony 09/11/2007 00:30:14

I think a life of prayer in sackcloth and ashes will go some way to help Tony redeem himself in the eyes of God for the evil, death and horror he brought to the world.

A tortured soul.

4

Cincinnatus,

The Capital 09/11/2007 00:47:42

Poor Tony, due to our sectarian constitution he could not be PM and be a catholic at the same time. At least now he can pursue his faith without an eye to the bigotry of the British establishment.

Mind, it'd be funny if Gordon done likewise:-)

5

An Australian of Scottish Ancestry,

09/11/2007 00:55:39

#3,
Indeed! Although, I don't think that there would be enough beads on any rosary for him! Blair is more of an idiot than anything else, it's just a shame that his primordial stupidity has had grave consequences for innocents in the Middle East and, of course, Scots.

6

Maisie from Morningside,

Morningside 09/11/2007 01:00:33

So he's spent the last 20-odd years in parliament supporting abortion ,and now he's against it....????

When did the change take place?
I doubt the sincerity of his 'conversion', it seems merely expedient.

7

Ard Righ,

The Rock of Edinburgh 09/11/2007 01:03:05

Ted, Ted he looks like me!

Dougal! No NO He's the new tea boy, now you know what happened the last time you tried to help make the tea with Mrs O'Doyle.......

8

Cincinnatus,

The Capital 09/11/2007 01:04:52

# 5 and 6, to see the Catholic Faith as about "rosaries" and "abortion" is to miss a great deal and to further believe that to belong to a faith means that you have no free will or free conscience is to be extremely reductive in your thinking to the extent of cliche and even in the extreme "sleep-walking secatarianism", charges I'm sure you would not want the possibility of being labelled!

9

,

09/11/2007 01:09:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1128079, Article id was mapped to record!
10

An Australian of Scottish Ancestry,

09/11/2007 01:19:33

#8,
Of course! I simply mean that for somebody like Blair to suddenly announce that he is converting, which gives the stark impression of an attempt to create the illusion of solemnity from a man who has a very illaudable past is, at best, ironic!

No offence intended! I am not slurring Catholicism.

11

Guga II,

Rockall 09/11/2007 01:54:56

It just proves what a two faced liar and hypocrite he really is.

12

jj,

09/11/2007 02:22:17

He pretended to be religious and protestant.
He pretended to be English.
He pretended to negotiate but gave away the Thatcher rebate of £1 billion a year just to ensure he got a cushy EU job after Downing Street.
The Old Pretender.

13

Scullion,

Canada 09/11/2007 03:04:56

I would have given Blair more credit if he had the guts to do this while in office. Now he looks like a spiritual coward.
#8
But to be religious is to give up freedom of choice and accept dogma; what you perceive to be expressions of free will are simply new ways to reinforce your already set faith.
As Darwin said, "I don't believe in God because I see no evidence of him."
And please no nonsense on "faith". Peter had no faith and he was given the keys of the Church, or so Blair's new chums say.

14

William of Liberton,

09/11/2007 03:36:21

The Roman Catholic church is the only one that gives full absolution for sins in exchange for confession and an act or two of contrition. Ten hail Maries and Blair's conscience - and his road to heaven - will be clear of Iraq, cash for honours, etc, etc.

15

BillMac,

Hants (but it's my we piece of Scotland!) 09/11/2007 03:54:14

#4 Cinncinatus.

Not sure where you got your "sectarian constitution" from. Although there has never been a RC Prime Minister there is actually nothing in the "Constitution" to prevent it happening.

Only the Monarch has to be Protestant.

(and in case as I love to tell my English friends , the Church of England is a Catholic church - just not ruled from Rome!)

16

Conan,

Moffat 09/11/2007 03:55:47

The Only Real Church Welcomes Mr. Blair.

17

McGubbligan,

Oz 09/11/2007 04:42:46

He treats religion the same way he treats politics.
Whatever it takes!
He is not a christian of any persuasion,he has no philosophy, no morals. He could be a catholic next week, a muslim the following week, whatever suits his purpose at any given time.
I'm sure there are a few catholics who will feel outraged at this "conversion."
He is a war criminal and the catholic church should tell him to get lost!

18

james 1st,

nz 09/11/2007 04:50:29

what an absolute total coward this man is. he should have converted before this ,the church will take him, but he obviously does not have that much conviction or he would have covverted years ago.
a wash out prime minister, a war monger,and a coward.

19

Anne,

09/11/2007 06:43:41

#14 - the Catholic church may give absolution for sins, but who's to say God will take a blind bit of notice of that?

20

Boy Wonder,

09/11/2007 07:10:24

We always knew Blair was going to convert to Catholicism. He said he wouldn't do it while he was PM, but he knew he'd eventually do it. So where's the story? Ex-PM believes in the superstition of Religion? Anglican (Episcopalian)'s a Religion too, isn't it? Like Presbyterianism and Calvinist and Seventh-Day Adventist, Mormons, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists etc ... except the English church is only one step away from Catholicism by comparison.

All I can say is thank god I'm an atheist!

21

albanman,

Edinburgh 09/11/2007 07:18:51

No.14 You're obviously someone who doesn't understand much (or perhaps anything) about the Catholic teaching on absolution. Also, you are incorrect in saying the Roman Catholic Church is only one with confession (a word which means to tell the truth).The Orthodox, the Copts, the Orientals, quite a few Anglicans and even some Lutherans understand the benefits of this sacrament.

It is sad an archaic law meant that Blair had to wait until he left office to join the Catholic Church.

22

William of Liberton,

09/11/2007 07:31:14

#14 Anne and #21 Albanman: you are both quite correct of course, but the delusional Blair will still think he has cleared his path to heaven.

23

Ninian Winzett,

09/11/2007 07:36:21

#23 If you're admitting you don't "understand much (or perhaps anything) about the Catholic teaching on absolution" then perhaps you really should refrain from making ignorant comment..?

24

William of Liberton,

09/11/2007 07:51:01

#24 Ninian Winzett: being a 100% non-believer of many years standing I am well qualified to understand the religious concept of absolution for what it is: a ritualised unburdening of the conscience. Blair on the other hand, like many others who belong to the Roman Catholic church, will regard it as a means of wiping the slate clean, preferable in his eyes, I should think, to going to prison for war crimes and corruption.

25

James,

Dundee 09/11/2007 07:56:27

Only reason it's a big deal, is because the 'establishment' make it so.

'Rome Rule' instead of 'inhouse Rule' of church and state is their reason.

Ukania's unwritten constitution, means no written discrimination against a Catholic PM.....nevertheless..................

Much as I hate the chimeric Blair.......it's ridiculous that he has had to practice his faith 'unofficially' in order to 'satisfy' the conditions of high office.

26

Harris tweed and levi's 501,

Edinburgh 09/11/2007 07:58:00

Is this the first step to sainthood?

Saint Bliar of Basra?

27

donald,

weegieland 09/11/2007 08:11:54

It's gonny be busy in the confession boax noo.

28

Paul Voltaire,

09/11/2007 08:12:49

Once he is converted he should go straight to the confessional.
He may be there some time.......

29

Cadgers,

Perth 09/11/2007 08:14:19

"However, a friend said it was "not without substance"."...Bliar's got a friend?

30

Loop,

09/11/2007 08:14:36

Does Bliar think that by changing religion he can escape war crimes charges?
He should get lost, stop courting attention and repent for what carnage he has caused.

31

steve 1511,

09/11/2007 08:18:48

why did he not join the troops in the frontline in afghanistan,

32

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA vote Hillary Clinton for US Pres 09/11/2007 08:52:08

Blair to join Catholic church 'in weeks'
------------------------------------------

How can a very well educated and intelligent man have anything to do with any religion.

Religion is nothing more than CROWD CONTROL, and a cancer in the mind.

GC

33

bill2,

09/11/2007 08:57:36

14. William of Liberton

"The Roman Catholic church is the only one that gives full absolution for sins"

Untrue. Orthodox, Anglican and many Nonconformist Christian churches do.

It is worth mentioning that confession and repentance is required before absolution can be given, and what constitutes sin is generally left for the penitent to decide.

Bliar will no doubt think he is without sin, but millions of dead, injured and exiled victims know differently.

34

wellwood,

ayr 09/11/2007 09:06:13

One deserves the other!

35

Martha,

09/11/2007 09:08:47

Anglicans confess their sins publicly every Sunday. Confession is hardly a Roman Catholic monopoly. The difference is that we confess aloud directly to God, not to a priest, and we believe that God, no humans, forgives sin. Plus there is this little matter of restitution, which isn't exactly the same as three Hail Marys and three Our Fathers and you're home free.

"Millions of dead, injured, and exiled victims"-- this kind of hyperbole is amazing. You excoriate Christians but you believe the Big Lie as promulgated by the muslims, people who are aiming to take over your country as well as mine, and establish a world-wide Taliban-style totalitarian theocracy.

36

Mcsnagpile,

09/11/2007 09:14:56

The only book written by god was on stones that Moses decided to destroy. How convenient. These stones of course would have solved all the world problems and mass loss of foreskins.
We hope Blair gives an account of why he has decided to put on the yoke of a autocratic system.

37

Scars,

Hamilton 09/11/2007 09:18:18

Oh, the irony !!

You can run but you cannot hide Tony boy !!!

The big bad fire awaits litle liar Tony and all the absolution in the world aint gonna fix that ...

For I was blind, and now I see,
Little ole Tony, he's crazy, ye see !!!

Now, where did I put the brimstone !!!

Bonkers !

38

Ananurhing,

09/11/2007 09:50:27

I really thought that his middle east envoy role was some sort of atonement deal with Il Papa. But surely he would have to have acheived something before being brought into the fold.
Now it would seem that perhaps the whole war in Iraq was a Papal canon against the infidel hoards, and this is his Papal payback.
At least now when he is tried for war crimes, he will be assured of his martyr status.
Ah well. You have to take your legacy where you can get it I suppose.

"Tone of Arc." ?

39

Not A Unionist or Nationalist ©,

09/11/2007 10:17:25

Is it just me but this would not be news if Catholicism were not involved?

As the likes of #14 have shown it is just an excuse for some to display their bigotry and prejudices.

40

Farky,

Blair is a war criminal 09/11/2007 10:25:09

Do they really want war criminals in the catholic church...?

41

Magic Hoops 2,

Fife, Scotland 09/11/2007 10:28:21

And all your sins shall be forgiven.......yeah right!!!

42

Justy,

Abbeyhill 09/11/2007 10:38:22

Gossip brings anger as surely asthe north wind brings rain.

Justy.

43

Ananurhing,

09/11/2007 10:45:20

45# Nauon
It has nothing to do with Catholicism. It's the fact that Blair purports to hold Christian values at all, whilst being a liar and a warmonger.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but "You're just going to have to trust me on this one."!
Suffer the half a million little children? I don't think this is what the Almighty had in mind.
Ah well. Onward Christian soldiers, and all that!

44

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 09/11/2007 10:52:06

Have every single one of you forgotten the instructions from Rome (via Mario Conti, I think) for their adherents in Scotland to spoil ballot papers at the last election (why has that not appeared in the report?) and the threats of excommunication and hellfire by Keith O'Brien toward democratically elected MSPs who happened to be RC, if they supported abortion policies which he considered appropriate.

That is why, for sound historical reasons, RCs are restricted in the types of high office the can reach in Britain.

I expect this comment'll be pulled in about 10 minutes!

45

Toast,

09/11/2007 10:56:55

With the catholic churches record of deceit and its high opinion of its own divine infallibility,this is a "marriage" made in heaven !! Tony will also be absolve from his murderous,arrogant past.

46

Scotsman in Dublin,

09/11/2007 11:11:41

If Blair had any scruples at all he would have converted while still prime minister and challenged head on the bigoted law that prevents this. I'm no great fan of the catholic church but everyone should be entitled to practise their religion and it is ridiculous in this day and age that catholics are still prevented from being prime minister. Blair had the perfect opportunity to challenge this but was too busy bombing muslims to worry about constitutional bigotry!

47

AJ of Fife,

09/11/2007 11:18:03

A church might be the last hiding place for the murdering son of a bitch!

It would be a wise move if the Pope stopped Blair's latest publicity stunt!

48

Backofthenet,

09/11/2007 11:30:46

"It is sad an archaic law meant that Blair had to wait until he left office to join the Catholic Church." (21)

It didn't. There is no bar on a Roman Catholic being PM. If there had been a bar, the Tories wouldn't have selected Iain Duncan Smith as their leader.

As for the monarchy, the monarch has to be "in communion with the Church of England". After all, he or she is titular head of that Church. That may well be "archaic" but it is not something that really affects many people.

49

Ananurhing,

09/11/2007 12:03:06

He should be well versed in the protocol involved.
He's been kissing Bush's ring for years!

50

GP,

09/11/2007 12:11:18

He has one final act of attricion that of joing the tory party then he can become a saint. he will have fullfilled his destiny, destroyed socialism, destroyed the middle east, destroyed the UK, destroyed pensions.destroyed education, destroyed peoples faith in a politics.
He has achieved what?
nothing in my book absolutely nothing positive.

51

,

09/11/2007 12:21:54
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Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1129163, Article id was mapped to record!
52

shivago8,

LIVINGSTON 09/11/2007 12:46:55

Isay,catholics beware,look what he done to this country in his 10 years of misery.He took this country to more wars than any other P/M,MILLION POUND PROPERTIES AROUND THE WORLD,but the big DOUBT surely is the wicked witch

53

Maurice,

fife 09/11/2007 12:55:07

I guess he has a whole bunch of "Hail Marys' to say.

54

scotleag,

09/11/2007 13:23:15

60. scotleag` with the acute after the name. You are not very cute. Try posting under your real moniker.

55

Em,

09/11/2007 13:34:30

56

You said "the monarch has to be "in communion with the Church of England".

Well not exactly. Under our existing laws, a member of the Royal Family can marry someone of any religious faith, or none, without losing their right of succession to the throne, except if they are a Roman Catholic.
They could marry Atheists, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Animists or Christians of any denomination except Roman Catholicism.

56

Backofthenet,

09/11/2007 13:42:03

'You said "the monarch has to be "in communion with the Church of England".' (65)

Indeed. Are you actually claiming that's not true?

57

,

09/11/2007 13:43:13
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58

GP,

09/11/2007 13:50:06

65 66 and all thise who got this wrong.
There is no LAW or rule that stops a member or the RC church becoming prime minister.

Keep your bigotted rubbish out of here

59

Biker,

Ayr 09/11/2007 13:53:29

Tony Blair's religious beliefs are for his own consumption, no one elses and frankly I dont care. What does concern me however is the level of religious bigotry evident in this thread. Sensible well ballanced people can and do see through this set of fairy storries, and Gallactic Canibal so rightly says "religion is no more than crowd control"
Leave Blair alone if this is what he thinks will secure him an after life, more fool him.

60

Ayrshire Scot™,

09/11/2007 13:55:43

69 Well said

61

Ninian Reid,

Edinburgh 09/11/2007 14:00:43

I doubt if there's a confession box anywhere in the land big enough to contain the halo-slipping Tony Bliar.

62

Em,

09/11/2007 14:04:34

#66
what I am saying is that this barring from the monarchy of certain religions only applies to Catholics.

Of course it would be illogical for someone of any other faith to be head of the church of England but the fact is that Catholicism is the only religion that is basically barred from the monarchy

63

Em,

09/11/2007 14:18:46

#68 GP

Why don't you just climb down from your high horse for a minute and read what I wrote on the subject before you mouth off again.

I made no mention of Catholics not being allowed to hold position of Prime Minister.

What I did say was that under our existing laws Monarchs are not allowed to marry Catholics without renouncing their right to the throne, but they are free to marry anyone of any other religious persuasian without giving up the this right.

I think this is a better example of bigotry than your ill informed version.

64

Backofthenet,

09/11/2007 14:21:50

"Catholicism is the only religion that is basically barred from the monarchy" (72)

Key word "basically" I suspect. Do you reckon a Sikh could be titular head of the Church of England?

65

Lastsocialist,

Paris, France 09/11/2007 14:26:27

#4 - Our 'sectarian consitution' has in fact done an excellent job of keeping out a religion that for centuries defended arbitrary and despotic government according to ius divinum and that has historically trampled on people's freedom of conscience. Martin Luther, John Knox, the Huguenot Monarchomach theorists, the English Puritans etc all understood that Roman Catholicism does not allow for individual choice and diversity in religion. Protestantism is by far the more progressive and enlightened of the Christian traditions, and far closer to the original meaning of the New Testament than such crypto-pagan cults as that of the Virgin Mary.

In the present age, the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland, taking its lead from an unreformed Papacy, continues to denigrate women and homosexuals. This is morally and biblically unacceptable. Though there are many fine Roman Catholics contributing to society we cannot and should not change a constitution whose religious settlement exists to protect liberty and progress.

As for Tony Blair's conversion to the Church of Rome, it only confirms what everybody has known for years - the man is of dubious intellectual quality.

66

Em,

09/11/2007 14:29:10

#74

Probably not, but there are no laws in place to prevent a member of the royal family from marrying a Sikh like there are if they wanted to marry a Catholic.

67

saneatheist,

09/11/2007 14:33:29

Quote
46 Farky
Do they really want war criminals in the catholic church...? end quote.

They never excommunicated Adolph, I reckon Tony Bliar will be in good company. As others have said, they deserve each other.

68

Calum Crubag,

09/11/2007 14:52:52

#77- yeah, the Catholic church supported Hitler, Franco and Mussolini, why not Blair.

Forward to the new dark ages with auld superstition and predjudice!

69

Calum Crubag,

09/11/2007 14:54:20

Why would a Catholic want to be the 'protector' of the Protestant faith? Can a prod or sikh become Pope? Is that bigotry.

70

Tim C,

Southern England 09/11/2007 14:56:50

The XPM's Mum was of Irish Protestant stock; poor lady will be spinning in her grave.

71

Em,

09/11/2007 14:59:29

#77

The Catholic Church rarely officially excommunicates anyone. The individual excommunicates himself when they openly go against Church teachings. When the Church does offically excommunicate someone, it usually results in public sympathy for the reprobate because he is seen as being victimized.

72

bill2,

09/11/2007 15:00:15

Bliar is certainly storing his riches here on earth; $500,000 for a speech and £5million for his memoirs!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7086474.stm

73

Randall.P.McMurphy,

Cuckoo's Nest 09/11/2007 15:02:55

Fantastic stuff #74!
Very well put...

74

Randall.P.McMurphy,

Cuckoo's Nest 09/11/2007 15:03:32

I meant #75....but #74 was great as well! haha!

75

Em,

09/11/2007 15:07:09

#79

I'm not in any way advocating that a Catholic or someone of any other religion should be able to hold a position of authority over the Church of England.

What I am asking is why is it ok for Catholics to be singled out?
Why is it ok for a member of the royal family to marry anyone of any faith except if they are a Catholic?

76

yockel,

Home 09/11/2007 15:08:08

Well at least he has obviously given up on becoming the Queen

77

GP,

09/11/2007 15:11:45

EM all posts - this article has ntohing to do with monarchy. You try to spin the thread around to this and by doing so prove your bigotted view.

78

alan badger,

jarrow 09/11/2007 15:15:56

tony was told years ago you cant be President of the E.U. if your not catholic

79

Not A Unionist or Nationalist ©,

09/11/2007 15:24:26

I see the the bigots are out of the lodges this afternoon.

80

GoldenOldie,

London 09/11/2007 16:01:55

# 40 Martha

"... the muslims, people who are aiming to take over your country as well as mine, and establish a world-wide Taliban-style totalitarian theocracy."

Huh!

I don't know what muslims YOU know, but the ones I know haven't the slightest interest in taking over ANY country - unlike Mr Bliar, who seemed intent on following Dubbya's lead in his aim for world domination.

Check the statistics - America has instigated - overtly or covertly - more wars in the last century than the whole of the rest of the world; and Britian, with it's 'special relationship' just tags along behind like some faithful dog.

Those who see 'the muslims' as taking over the role of 'the communists' are just being conned, big time. But that's what the neo-cons of America want and, with the help of Bliar and now Brown, that's what they'll probably get.

81

Em,

09/11/2007 16:06:09

#87 GP

Actually the subject of the monarchy and religion was not brought up by myself, but by others before me and to those who thought Catholics were barred from office, I was simply laying out the source from which this confusion has arisen.

How does one become labelled as a bigot by bringing to attention a biggoted law that is still in use?

82

yockel,

Home 09/11/2007 16:18:52

#93 Careful Em, knowing the law could be useful to a terrorist .......

83

,

09/11/2007 16:23:58
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84

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2007 16:30:10

Poor Blair. Lost is all we can say about him now

85

wattie>x 1,

09/11/2007 16:52:49

As a life long non-believer devoid of any religious axe too grind; past history has revealed factually such a megalomaniac as the long haired former pop singer Blair, turned politician and devout Christian, will be welcomed with open arms, into the Roman Catholic fold.
I don't in any way wish to enter into a dialogue about the rights and wrong of ANY religion but this religion during my life span; has found every ruthless dictator since the advent of Fascism, being made welcome and refuge inside its hierarchy's ranks. Child molestation and rape of many of the young women who entered its ranks; have only recently come to be known publicly,as having been common practice, as well as inthe past.
So may be the old adage, "birds of a feather flock to together" fits the bill for the Blair saga down too a tee.
One refreshing thought I have about this story; is my old mentor "auld Nick", has become rather impatient with the waiting to get his paws on both Bush and Blair; but, has assured me, confidentially, there is no escape for either, no matter how long he has too wait.
So Blair's formal membership of the Roman Catholic Church will probably be a waste off time and energy
any way.
Keep the fires well stoked Nick?

86

Nellie,

Liverpool 09/11/2007 17:12:57

#15.. I beieve you are right, that there is nothing in the constitution to say the PM cannot be of any faith other than Anglican. However, it is my understanding that the Monarch has to be Church of Engand NOT Protestant. Remember, the Church of England is still Catholic even thought it isn't ROMAN Catholic.

87

Ed Balls,

Right behind Gordon 09/11/2007 17:22:36

Look I'm not here to defend Tony, goodness knows I've plotted for so long to get my man Gordon into No 10.
But I must say that when Tony stood shoulder to shoulder with George Bush at the time of those dreadful terrorist acts in New York it was the bravest act of any politician for many decades.
Give praise where it is due.
His religion is his own and is of no interest to me or anyone.

Finally, Out of the frying pan and into the fire some might say but I'm sticking with Gordon. He is worth following if only out of curiosity!!

88

GP,

09/11/2007 17:46:25

93# the law is not has not never has been anything to do with public office.
It pertains to the monarchy and the church of england and it is alos not bigotted..
Why are you and others confused by this?
Blair was not is not and never will be a monarch so this is a non issue (as monty pythoin would say).
The law that you refer to is not bigotted either as it does not refer in anyway to lack of preparedness to listening or understanding anothers opinion.
It merely states that the monarch must be the head of the C of E and therefore must be a member of C of E.
Not a big issue really but always blown out of proportion in terms of it's value or credence by a tiny minority of the population and always used as evidence of soem sort of persecution complex or perhaps easier for you to understand chip on shoulder mentality.

89

karin m,

09/11/2007 18:30:38

To those who are saying that you cant be PM and a catholic. There is no law against it. There was a law forbidding people who had been catholic preists from entrering parliament (since repealed) hence one david cairns MP. There is however a law barring any monarch marrying or being a catholic. No other such law exists barring any other faith. it is purely roman catholics it applies to. This is a law that peddles religious bigotry. It is time this law was scrapped.

90

Scott_B,

09/11/2007 18:41:29

Wow. I hope whoever is on the other side of the confession booth has a lot of stamina. That will be a LONG session

91

Food snob,

09/11/2007 19:11:13

The fact that he believes in God make him a moron for me. End of.

92

Ms Fiona,

09/11/2007 19:39:53

#102 Well that's fine GP I don't see an issue, all those of us who are not C of E can live in a republic. Problem sorted. Blair has always leaned to Catholicism, this is hardly a surprise or a story.

93

Conan,

Moffat 09/11/2007 20:08:27

Tim, #67, I post that only to out the BIGOTS among us .... you revealed yourself rather obviously, and rather quickly, I might add. Bravo tolerant Canadian. One wonders what your government might have to say about your attitute is it were posted on a Canadian website. Don't get me wrong .... I'm TOTALLY in favour of your RIGHT to way whattever you please, whenever you please, regardless of who is offended and I TOTALLY disagree with ANY criminalization of religious or political speech. But, on the other hand, you well know who and what you are, nes pas?

94

bill2,

09/11/2007 20:45:53

110. Red Etin

Here you are.

http://www.heavens-above.com/

95

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 09/11/2007 20:51:15

#14...... It is obvious that you are an idiot and that you know absolutely nothing about the workings of the Catholic church. As a church of Scotland Protestant I know this much......... In relation to confession, the RC church believes that only God has the power to forgive sin. They take this from the bible when Jesus said "go therefore and teach ye all nations whose sins that you forgive they are forgiven them,whose sins you retain,they are retained" That is why the priest says to the person who is confessing,"I absolve you from your sins AS FAR AS I AM ABLE IN YOUR NEED" The priest does not have the power to forgive sins and he knows it. If the person is not absolutely sorry in their heart for his or her sins,then the sin is NOT forgiven That as far as I am aware is the rule in the Catholic and any other church. So! why are you talking rubbish No.14.

96

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 09/11/2007 20:51:37

# 108 Conan

If you are going to use a foreign language at least use it properly-spelled: you should have written, "n'est-ce pas? ["Isn't it so?" or "Is this not so?", et cetera.].

Your "Nes pas?" is merely a phonetic transliteration of the correct French. Well, at least you tried.

Since you TRY to appear to be omniscient, why don't YOU tell ME who I am and what I am?

I would never be so presumptuous as to say that to any person - but then you ARE Catholic and all that that implies.

97

bill2,

09/11/2007 20:53:15

38. Wini

No hatred for Bliar, just pity for his victims.

I will be reporting you for complicity in his crimes.

98

Kung-Half-Fu,

Cathay Prolific 09/11/2007 20:58:45

#36. bill2

"Bliar will no doubt think he is without sin, but millions of dead, injured and exiled victims know differently."

The "... injured and exiled victims know differently." I agree, but as for the "dead" ...?

99

bill2,

09/11/2007 21:00:02

112. Hunky Dorey

You must be thinking of Islam or Judaism.

The RC Church, in common with the Anglican and Orthodox Christian churches, gives their priests the power to forgive sin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolution

100

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 09/11/2007 21:01:54

#102..... When is the last time Britain had a Catholic prime minister? Britain is a sectarian anti- Catholic state. The act of settlement 1701 is more than proof of that. I feel that Blair was a coward. He would not convert whilst in office as he was afraid to take on the anti Catholic bigots in the British establishment. The sectarian act of settlement prevents Catholics from becoming P.M. by the wording"no Papist shall advise the crown". What a sick sectarian state Britain really is.

101

bill2,

09/11/2007 21:02:01

115. Kung-Half-Fu

Well spotted. Knew - in their dying moments.

102

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 09/11/2007 21:06:21

# 116......... The churches that you have just mentioned all believe that only God has the power to forgive sin The priest or pastor is but the medium.

103

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 09/11/2007 21:15:30

# 98.......Read the full contents of the British act of settlement 1701 and you will be given the answers to your uncertainties. Britain is a no papist need apply state, which makes us very backward looking in the eyes of the civilised world, and I say those words as a member of the church of Scotland. Protestant and proud of it!

104

Forky,

Liverpool uk 09/11/2007 21:22:50

I for one have doubts on Blairs conversion to Catholism his time in office does not lend itself to his commitment to any viable principle.
His belief in a non exsistant sky fairy is laughable
Hyton 5

105

Thistledhu,

Fife 09/11/2007 21:59:33

#51 FLUB, your comments havent been pulled because there very amuseing, devoid of fact and embarrasing to only one person you.

Alex Salmond just spent the day convinceing the rest of the world that peolple like you dident exsist any more!!!!!

What church a person goes to or not is a matter of personall consciousness a non event.

106

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 09/11/2007 23:02:10

Catholic church beware. Have you lessons of Mass instruction?

107

Conan,

Moffat 09/11/2007 23:33:09

Tim, #113, who said I am a Catholic? I certainly DID NOT. For all your fluffy postings you reveal yourself even more to be a complete BIGOT.

108

taxidriver,

09/11/2007 23:47:16

what a lot of tosh being written tonight. sectarianism is a catholic thing. this is a protestant country if you dont like the way we live do as the romans do and go back to rome.whether your born and bred here if you dont like it go and that to anybody who has big problems with the british way of life.we are protestant by choice the same choice tony blair has.he chose catholicism whats the big deal.before anybody starts on me my family are catholic i chose not to be

109

dixon,

10/11/2007 02:31:51

#127.
So, "sectarianism is a Catholic thing" is it? I suppose I must have imagined all those Orange Walks that went past my door when I lived in Govan.
Given the low numbers who actually go to church on a sunday, Scotland is not a Protestant country any more.More like an atheist one.
You sound like the type who would moan about Catholic schools, yet your own contribution is so illiterate as to be risible.

110

Fran from Glasgow,

10/11/2007 03:13:34

I have trawled through the many comments and have several of my own now:

I am amazed at the level of bigotry from the non-Catholics on this site. Live and let live. Stop degrading people or patronizing them because they are Catholic.

Most of the posts also display some level of ignorance. You're free to be whatever you like but please stop talking authoritatively about issues you clearly don't understand. For instance:

Priests do not forgive sins (in spite of what Wikapedia(!) says) but act as God's go-between.

Sectarianism is neither a Catholic nor Protestant "thing". Any Christian following the basic teachings of the Bible must love their neighbours as themselves; therefore bigotry and hatred go against the Bible.

Similarly, it is not for us to judge but for God to do so - I cannot emphasise this enough - the Catholic Church doesn't say it's a sin to be homosexual; just to act on it. The Chatecism actually explains (if any of you bothered to read it) that we should feel sorry for them because how they feel isn't mainstream/normal and they have a choice to make. It's their choice (ie the physical gay act) that is a sin. Even at that, we are NOT judges of them and so cannot act as bigots - again the bigots are not following the teachings properly. It is NOT bigotry to believe that something is a sin, or we would also be bigots against everyone in the world, as we are all sinners. By definition some things have to be sin. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

And on this note, the (many) comments about Tony Blair's immoral and illegal war on Iraq actually have little to do with whether he becomes a Catholic. Only he can know if he's truly sorry and only with true penitence can he be forgiven. I am actually more surprised at Labour's many anti-Catholic laws over the last 10 years, if Tony was really harbouring Catholic tendancies. I do not understand how he can suddenly claim to be anti-abortion etc after his record in gove

111

bill2,

10/11/2007 08:46:22

I hope that Bliar finds it in his heart to repent and seek forgiveness. He can only do that by offering apology and restitution to his victims.

112

Jeff Tan,

Australia 10/11/2007 09:41:45

#13:
"But to be religious is to give up freedom of choice and accept dogma; what you perceive to be expressions of free will are simply new ways to reinforce your already set faith."

That's a very interesting way to put it. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the notion of free will is an illusion within our faith. But that makes no sense when you think of what the notion of sin and forgiveness is about. What makes it possible for someone to commit sin is the free will to do so. Likewise the reason why forgiveness can be granted is that someone has freely willed to ask for pardon. Sin must be understood as something that violates faith, and free will is required since free will stands outside faith -- giving one the basis for accepting or rejecting faith.

"I don't believe in God because I see no evidence of him."

Interesting quote from Darwin, which I only assume to be a precise quote, but intelligent scientists are subject to folly, just like everyone else. I have yet to meet the scientist who has actually seen dark matter, nor a witness the big bang. A scientist's assertion of facts must indeed be limited to one's perceptions and observations of natural phenomena. To jump from non-perception to non-existence, however, is a very unscientific misstep. If Science was limited only to what can be perceived, then we would not be at this advanced level of Science that we have today. And we would have no hope of going forward -- which is tragic, since there is so much out there to discover. One must also realize that scientific observation relies heavily on two things: the right instrument and -- gasp -- faith in the science (and authorities) behind the instrument.

"And please no nonsense on "faith". Peter had no faith and he was given the keys of the Church, or so Blair's new chums say."

Actually, the Catholic Church considers Peter's declaration as a confession of faith, so I'm

113

Jeff Tan,

Australia 10/11/2007 09:51:25

# 14
"The Roman Catholic church is the only one that gives full absolution for sins in exchange for confession and an act or two of contrition."

Actually, if he is not really sorry, then he is not really forgiven. After all, the judge himself pays the ransom, and, thank the judge, he can see right through a sham.

Oh.. and he reserves the right to exact punishment on even the penitent. The latter might otherwise not fully appreciate the consequences of his mistakes, and might subsequently be tempted to repeat the offense.

114

Jeff Tan,

Australia 10/11/2007 10:02:47

William of Liberton (#25):
"I am well qualified to understand the religious concept of absolution for what it is: a ritualised unburdening of the conscience."

So you can discount what the Catholic Church holds and teaches about the Catholic concept of absolution, and yet assume that your non-Catholic definition holds true for Catholics?

"Blair on the other hand, like many others who belong to the Roman Catholic church, will regard it as a means of wiping the slate clean,"

I assume you mean that it goes no further than simply wiping the slate clean, whereas the Catholic doctrine on absolution maintains that there's more to it than that. Sadly, this is misunderstood, ignored or actively rejected by many. Painless gain is so attractive.

It would be fair, like St. John the Baptist, to demand proof of repentance, and Catholics would be thrilled to have Mr. Blair publicly seek to now address the consequences of his past actions (where possible).

115

Jeff Tan,

Australia 10/11/2007 10:18:17

I'm not a fan of the war waged against Saddam's Iraq, noting as well that the late Pope John Paul II had opposed the war in the first place. I can only assume that the people with a burning anger against Blair (and co.) concerning that campaign have a similar anger towards Saddam for his own acts of mass murder. I can only assume.

116

Queen D,

Glasgow 10/11/2007 10:50:07

Jeff Tan,This is NOT about regime change this is about weapons of mass destruction.
Who said that? I'll give you a clue,he's about to embrace catholicism!

117

Meths,

10/11/2007 11:33:59

He'll still go to hell. Hypocritical nonentity that he is.

118

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 10/11/2007 15:07:03

#134....... Spot On!

119

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 10/11/2007 15:08:34

#130....... A most excellent post!

120

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 10/11/2007 15:12:08

# 113....... You are a bigot "and all that that implies".

121

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 10/11/2007 15:22:23

#127........... Scotland is not a Protestant country! If it is as you say,why then are most of the Protestant churches EMPTY on a sunday? Scotland is full of people like you i.e. would like to be Protestant but have not got the courage to practice your faith, People like you would rather follow a sectarian orange band and shout f**k the Pope. That is your idea of Protestantism. Scotland's one million Catholics are not going to go away,so get used to it! I speak as a Protestant who practices his faith.

122

Thistledhu,

Fife 10/11/2007 19:40:21

141 Hunky Dorey agree completley the sad fact is most bigots on both sides hardley ever enter a church.

it is personal choice that dictates which if any church you attend and not up for debate or criticism by others.

as i said before a non news event lots more going. on just seems the sectarion skeleton in scotlands cupboard is all too easily ratteld


 

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