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The PM, his press secretary and the 'whingeing jocks'

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Published Date: 10 July 2007
TONY Blair's difficult relationship with the country of his birth has been laid bare in the diaries of his former spin doctor, Alastair Campbell, in extracts which dismiss the country's journalists as "whingeing Jocks".
Those who believe the former prime minister had a problem with Scotland yesterday had their theories bolstered with the official publication of The Blair Years.

The book reveals a secret dinner with Gordon Brown during which Mr Blair warns his Chancellor that he will back him as his successor, but only if he is not made to feel he is "forced out" of No 10.

But also buried in the diaries of Mr Blair's former press secretary is a remarkably frank analysis of the dread the Labour leader felt when dealing with matters north of the Border and the Scottish media. Campbell moans in an entry for 1995 that he and Mr Blair were portrayed as "ultra-English", when in fact "we are Scottish in so many ways".

"He was born there and his dad is a Scot," he writes. "My blood is 100 per cent Scots, I play the bagpipes and followed the football team to World Cups."

He then recounts a conversation between Mr Brown and Mr Blair, when the prime minister is sarcastic about Scots' high expectations. "TB said to him he'd had a day full of whingeing Jock journos saying they wanted devolution and they wanted no tax and they wanted Scotland to get more money and they wanted to win the World Cup and why was I stopping them?"

Later, Campbell writes of another visit by Mr Blair: "Scotland, as ever, was a disaster waiting to happen."

He blames The Scotsman for hijacking Mr Blair on a story about his devolution policies, when during an interview Mr Blair compares the powers he wants to give to the proposed Scottish Parliament to those of a parish council.

The story, which sparked a furore north and south of the Border, was triggered by Tony Blair's remarks that sovereignty would remain at Westminster.

Although The Scotsman's journalists had told aides ahead of the interview that Mr Blair would be asked about the "West Lothian" question, Alastair Campbell still lamented the "disastrous" interview.

Mr Blair was ruling out the use of the tax-varying powers but defended them, saying that "once the power is given it's like the smallest English parish council, it's got the right to exercise it".

Other media seized on the "parish council" comparison and Mr Blair was dogged by the issue the next morning.

The book, published yesterday, lays bare the "truth" behind whether the former prime minister considered himself English or Scottish. Although Mr Blair was born in Edinburgh and educated at Fettes College, he has always insisted that he was "British", not choosing between English or Scottish.

Campbell wrote: "There is a 'culture of grievance' element to all the media, but the Jocks have it with knobs on. I also think there is something in both me and TB they find irritating, in that we are both Scottish in many ways, yet they view us as ultra-English."

Campbell also strays into the area of football - the spin doctor reveals he had no qualms about backing anyone but England during football clashes.

During the Euro 96 semi-final with Germany, Campbell was secretly cheering on Germany. "I had never really supported England, and, for political reasons I found myself rooting privately for Germany, though as I was sitting next to one of JM's [John Major's] bodyguards, even though he was a Scot, I pretended to be backing England. It was one of the most incredible matches I have ever seen." He continues that Mr McConnell looked "ashen".

"Just as we had been worrying, however irrationally, about the political benefits to him of England winning, so a part of him must have been banking on this. He looked pretty sick and the atmosphere at the back of the royal box was not great. I tried not to let my happiness show as we walked to the car. Once we got in, I said, 'Yesss' and shook my fist. Tony Blair said, 'Could you save any celebrations until you got home?'. I said, 'don't pretend you feel any different'."

OPENING DOOR ON TENSION AT NO 10

DESPITE claiming he censored the juiciest bits, Alastair Campbell's diaries go some way to hint about the tension between Gordon Brown and Tony Blair.

In one extract from December 2001, Mr Campbell reveals how Mr Blair had dinner with the Chancellor and tells him "he still believed he was easily the best person to follow him but he was not going to support him in circumstances where he felt he was being forced out".

Other revelations include a row with Cardinal Winning, the Catholic Archbishop of Glasgow over the Labour Party's refusal to have an anti-abortion stand at its party conference in 1995.

Cardinal Winning had taken a "big blast" at the then Labour leader. An entry in February that year said the pair ruled out retaliating for fear of inflaming religious sensitivities in Scotland: "The attack was pretty heavy and TB was livid. He said he couldn't stand it when churchmen played politics like this, especially as TB had been trying to sort this out. His first reaction was to demand a right to reply but he agreed to take soundings - did he really want a Blair v Catholic Church row raging throughout Scotland just as we were coming up to Scottish conference." Mr Campbell also had misgivings about Mr Blair's close relationship with Michael (now Lord) Levy, his fund-raiser and Middle East envoy, ten years before the cash-for-honours allegations surfaced.

ON THE SCOTSMAN

THE SCOTSMAN is mentioned five times in Alastair Campbell's diaries, mostly as a source of irritation for scuppering the spin doctor's best-laid plans.

In 1995, Mr Campbell advises the then Labour leader to contain his "antagonism" towards the Scottish press ahead of giving an interview with The Scotsman.

Mr Campbell said both he and Mr Blair were their own worst enemies, winding each other up about the Scottish press. Ahead of the 1997 election, the spin doctor laments granting The Scotsman an interview with the future prime minister. His remarks comparing the Scottish Parliament to a parish council provoked an uproar. He proceeds to blame himself for agreeing to The Scotsman interview. The Conservatives had also seized on the article.

Then in 1998, The Scotsman ran an article by Paul Routledge, author of a biography of Gordon Brown, insisting it was authorised by the chancellor himself. This triggered ructions at No 10, as the book had outlined the pact made between Mr Blair and Mr Brown. Until then, Downing Street had instructed spin doctors to claim that it was unauthorised. But Mr Routledge went on to tell The Scotsman that Nick Brown, the former chief whip and ally of the chancellor, was a key source for the book.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 10 July 2007 12:34 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Tony Blair's leadership
 
1

,

10/07/2007 00:22:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 771915, Article id was mapped to record!
2

Guga II,

Rockall 10/07/2007 00:32:24

Why do they keep claiming Bliar is Scottish? His father, Leo Blair, the son of two English actors, was adopted by a Glasgow shipyard worker named James Blair and his wife Mary as a baby.

My parrot is more Scottish than Bliar; though my parrot isn't a war criminal.

In any event, Bliar has always shown that he holds the Scots in contempt. It is, therefore, little wonder that so many Scots reciprocate the feeling.

3

James,

Dundee 10/07/2007 00:48:17

Once convicted Blair will be portrayed as a drunken Jock by the Daily Telegraph, mark my words.


A parrot on Rockall?


Further evidence of global warming.

4

Colin P,

10/07/2007 01:09:17

and this man epitomised New Labour.

Is it any wonder there's movement in the countries of the UK for separation?

5

Guga II,

Rockall 10/07/2007 01:15:04

#3 :-)

6

Paul,

10/07/2007 01:42:44

By any normal measure, being born in Scotland, going to school in Scotland and having one scottish parent makes you largely Scottish. I am not a fan of Blair but I agree with him on this one.

It is also clear that The Scotsman has gone searching for information to try and make a story out of pretty much nothing. To review the extracts and come up with this as the main story is frankly, pathetic.

7

Navvy,

10/07/2007 01:51:21

#2 et al
The vast majority of posters to this newspaper assume, or state, that being born in Scotland makes a person a Scot.

What then is your definition of a Scot?

8

Suck-McCrunchie,

Doomster Hill 10/07/2007 01:59:31

He's gone - why do we have to keep reading about him.

The only ones who need to read about him are the ones in the Middle East planning his come-uppance.

9

Pictus,

Hub o' the Universe 10/07/2007 02:01:51

What a sad, tawdry tale told by an idiot! Any people on Earth contemplating democracy must wonder if it is worth the bother when they look at the current governments in the U. K., U. S. A., Australia and Canada. The clowns have really really taken over the circus.
Is that it? Are all the 'good times past and gone', as the song goes? Yesterday I heard someone who should know better, on a national radio network, say, "Interest in soccer is growing expotentially!" Plonk! The world does seem to be dumbing down into a new Dark Age.

10

Guga II,

Rockall 10/07/2007 02:28:01

#7 Navvy. Being born in a stable doesn't make you a horse.

11

,

10/07/2007 03:11:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 772122, Article id was mapped to record!
12

steve's here,

hopelessly wide eyed 10/07/2007 03:15:43

What's the point to labeling Blair a Scot or no a Scot? He belongs to an elite club of people like Bush, chaney, Sadam, KimJong Ill, Putin, etc. who have gotten enough wealth, power and influence to feel above the likes of you and me. They need neither country or the good will of the "little people". They do as they please no matter what the human cost.

13

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 10/07/2007 04:21:20

Why do we think that Alistair Campbell's book would contain any more truth that his press leaks when he was Tony's right hand man?

14

dave evans,

manchester 10/07/2007 04:38:43

Alistair Campbell was quite right, saying that the Scots have a culture of greivance.

15

Mercutio,

Falkirk 10/07/2007 04:40:15

After several visits to these sites I can definitely see what he means about whingeing Jocks.

16

Pilrig,

Livingston 10/07/2007 05:06:15

Campbell's memoirs are to found in the fiction departments of all good bookshops.

17

Pilrig,

Livingston 10/07/2007 05:08:58

15 -and why do have a we a 'culture of grievance' ?

18

Comerscroft,

10/07/2007 05:49:05

##17##

A 'culture of grievance' , along with chippy 'victimhood' and 'we wuz robbed' comes naturally to the Scots. Life for them would not be the same without these attributes.

They are, indeed, a nation of 'Whingeing jocks'.

19

Mercutio,

Falkirk 10/07/2007 06:09:19

#17. You can always tell the difference between a ray of sunshine and Scotsman with a grievance.

20

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 06:19:49

#18 ah that'll be like the stereotype that all Englishmen are effete trouser browsing homophobic racists.

21

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife News Room 10/07/2007 06:21:37

It does not matter where Blair was born, it's the damage done which is the problem. It will take years to sort out the mess, and Greedy Grabbit Gordon is NOT the man to do it.

Yours etc

Angus Whitton

22

keepreal,

Enfield 10/07/2007 06:23:27

Whether English as I am, a Scot or from anywhere else, how can anyone interested in the public good possibly have had these kind of sentiments. No good can come out of publishing such garbage. Campbell should have kept to the sweep of history in his book, not damaging minutiae about how small-minded the players are, including himself.


23

Proximaking,

Aggrieved In the Highlands, .... Where Else?? 10/07/2007 06:29:37

I am agrieved that Dave Evans thinks we are agrieved. Let's face it when you live at the end of the earth* as we do there is no-one else to blame for the mess the world's in except "Southern morons". It gives us something to do whilst wiling away the long nights spinning on our heels. The one happy thought I have about all of this is that at last after many years the whole planet has come round to the Scottish way of thinking, summed up in the phrase, "Something's wrong here." That is the first step to fixing it, whatever "it" is. What this has to do with the diaries I have no idea but he did say they were the first pass effort so the good stuff will come later.

*I have never believed in America I think someone just made it up. Nowhere so inward looking could possibly exist. I do believe in Red Indians though, or is that North American Aboriginal tribes?

24

Pete,

10/07/2007 06:33:50

Fly Fifer # 11

"He was an A****ole of the 1st degree."
I didn't realise he was a Freemason as well, what a talent!

25

Earl of Stirling,

North America 10/07/2007 06:34:50

Tony Blair and close associates had nothing but contempt for Scottish tradition, history and law throughout my claim to reclaim my Clan's ancient Scottish honours. I make this case very strongly in my book, CASH FOR PEERAGES: THE SMOKING GUN just published by Lulu.

Stirling
(Earl of Stirling)
(Chief of Clan Alexander)

26

Phil1,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 06:39:22

Guga ga ga II Rockall - \come on give us your definition of how someone is Scottish

Do they need to be bigots, rude, vulgar, opinionated as many of your coments are or can we not accept the normal understanding - 'being born in Scotland is clearest claim to being Scottish', 'having Scotish Parent/s is another' and 'going to a Scottish school is another' (shows lived in Scotland for a time), 'coming to live in Scotland' (immigrant) is another way or do you have to be Guga Guga II supporter?

27

Nell,

Far from the Struan 10/07/2007 06:42:30

No. 10, Guga:- Surely it doesn't matter whether if you are born in Scotland of non Scottish parents, or whether you are born abroad of Scottish parents. If you regard yourself as a Scot and shout "Come on" when Scotland win at football, rugby or whatever, then you are a Scot.

28

williamx,

Delta 10/07/2007 06:44:43

You can always tell a plane load of Pommie immigrants.
The plane is still whining after the jets are shut off.
Old Aussie legend.

29

eddylongshanks,

york 10/07/2007 06:55:42

yes come on Guga, put your rose tinted specs on, let your eyes mist up and tell us all your definition of being Scottish ?

I suspect "wee chippie" must come into your definition since you regard yourself as a Scot

30

Auckland Arab2,

10/07/2007 06:57:42

Blair is totally on the money - Scots are a bunch of whingeing jocks, he forgot to add they have massive chips on their shoulders, a huge inferiority complex and are always looking for someone else (ie England) to blame for their own mistakes.

Time this bunch were cut loose on their own and stood on their onw two feet.

31

Jay Kay,

Dunfermline 10/07/2007 06:59:15

#7 My definition of being a Scot, well my familly were all born here in Scotland, I myself was born in St.Andrews. My parents parents were all Scottish, thier parents were Scottish and so I can trace my familly lineage back hundreds of years to the highland clearancies where my familly were forced to flee to france.

They changed their name and came back to scotland to live years later.

I love my country and have always thought that as a nation we could be one of the ritchest most attractive countries in the world to live.

I see the highland glens, beautiful beaches and rivers, a nation of downtroden people kept in poverty by the neighbours south of our borders and their fat cat politicians who want to keep it that way.

It is the English who are frightened to let the scots become a nation again and there is a percentage of this country that is brainwashed into believing it.

The Labour government systematically dismatled every manufacturing industry in this country in an attempt to turn us into a f***** call centre.

We have lost so much but its in our nature to put up two fingers and say "aye f*** you" and simply rebuild it, and why, well simply put, because we have the skills to do so, we have the Engineers, the skilled tradesmen and women and the will to do so.

So you can take your union and shove it and anyone wishing us to remain in the union can simply use the right to go live south of the border in Labour land. But somehow I dont think they will because they know where they are better of.

Here in my home, I only have one and its called Scotland and I love it and anyone who tries to destroy it is my enemy. Plain and simple. I am not going to offer the hand of freindship to the likes of Blair or anyone who has done so much damage Scot or not.

This is my definition of being a Scot.

32

scorchio,

West of the Pecos 10/07/2007 07:02:21

I've come accross plenty whingers in Scotland, so it comes as no surprise that Blair and co. encountered a few ofthem.
I will however defend the political journalists in "The Scotsman" who I find write balanced and fairly accurate articles, something that cannot be said for the sports section. (in the main!)
I just wonder why this is a story, what about the real "stuff" the sleaze, Prescott, nine eleven, home grown terrorists, etc etc.

33

scorchio,

West of the Pecos 10/07/2007 07:03:38

#31 See a psychiatrist, or grow up.

34

eddylongshanks,

york 10/07/2007 07:06:04

jay kay - yep ,a whinger. Thatcher also systematically wiped out huge swathes of industrial England and Wales and Labour carried on that work, never mind the industries were inefficient the human cost has left scars the whole breadth and depth of these islands but of course its easier for you to blame the English. So you are part french then ?

35

mr chips,

10/07/2007 07:08:45

Who is jack mconnell?

36

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 07:12:35

If only he'd taken a leaf out of his mentors book.

'We English, who are a marvellous people, are really very generous to Scotland.'
Margaret Thatcher in the Times, 12 February 1990.

37

Chris, Edinburgh,

10/07/2007 07:16:55

Why is Campbell's book being given such publicity? He has a lot to answer for in terms of telling porkies and contributing to voter apathy by promotion of the 'spin' culture. He and Mandelsson have often been portrayed as 'masters of the black art of media manipulation' yet both ended up as discredited joke figures so why the interest?

38

eddylongshanks,

york 10/07/2007 07:17:41

jay Key "I see the highland glens, beautiful beaches and rivers, a nation of downtroden people kept in poverty by the neighbours south of our borders and their fat cat politicians who want to keep it that way."

You forgot your type : work shy, dependency culture, blame anyone but themselves.

Last time I visited Edinburgh it was a booming city, same in Aberdeen, even Glasgow looked refreshed and vibrant, true i didnt tour the sink estates but I dont do that in Manchester or London - I got the impression most of Scotland was working hard and being successful, you obviously want to dig up the faults and blame the Scots running the UK, the English probably my neighbours Scottie dog, anyone but yourselves.

39

paulr,

10/07/2007 07:23:33

Any newspaper that scuppers a political spin doctors plans is doing a good job...

40

SEUMAS,

Tain 10/07/2007 07:28:02

Re paragraph 3 of the above article.
The antaganism of the hootsmon / herald, et.al. has now been transferred from the labour party to the S.N.P.

41

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 10/07/2007 07:36:03

To be fair to him all you have to do is read half these threads; not many peple applauding things.

42

S'me,

10/07/2007 07:37:46

Here we go proving it... whinge whinge whinge... not happy unless we're moaning... really, listen to yourselves, sanctimonius....

43

eddylongshanks,

york 10/07/2007 07:38:21

and what of the English ? well what there was has been systematically taken apart by the Scots who have run this country for the last 10 years

44

quepasache,

Kirriemuir 10/07/2007 07:38:23

The English whinge too. It's only those deep in the troughs of SW1 who don't whinge. See below:

whinge /winzh/ v n :: whine, pule, bitch, esp. incessant, “whinging poms” [Aus]. whip v :: steal. whip-round n :: pass the hat around (to collect money), ...

45

steve 1511,

10/07/2007 07:39:13

if the english are that clever why do they have to be governed by scots

46

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 10/07/2007 07:39:13

#41 I'll think you'll find all countries have generated stereotypical ideas about their neighbours.

Ask some Germans to tell the vast repetoire of Austrian jokes.

Or the Swedes about Fins, Australians about New Zealanders, Americans about Canadians or Mexicans etc.

It is not an English phenomenom.

47

maxi,

10/07/2007 07:41:08

38. totally agree, I visit scotland often and it looks fine to me,this guy wants to visit the north-east of england if he thinks scotland is badly done to!

48

Kenny A,

10/07/2007 07:43:16

Right old chaps, feeling like a prize pillock this morning, did not realise Alaister Campbell was Scottish.

No idea how I could have missed that, after all the name is hardly not a give away.

To all you folks who probably never wondered what Campbell means in Gaelic it translates as squint mouth or bent mouth. A fitting job he had.

Enough of this I am going to commit fanatical lawnmowing for a while and lament the state of the universe if creatures like Blair and Campbell are Scottish.

Bring back the Picts

49

maxi,

10/07/2007 07:47:43

46. we are not governed by "scots" ask Gordon Brown. you are all "north british"

50

Brideun,

Balloch 10/07/2007 07:48:06

To all with an open mind please buy or borrow a copy of Burt's Letters from the North of Scotland where you will read how conditions were really like and how the population were treated by 'oor ain'.
Burt was a liberal minded and intelligent English soldier who had been posted to Inverness in the early eighteenth century. His letters were regular reports to a colleague concerning life in the Highlands and on how he tried to improve and educate the locals. Ignorance and the clan system kept the north ( and lots of the south ) in the stone age.

51

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 07:50:06

How long will it be before we see Campbell's book alongside Lorraine Davidson's "Lucky Jack" also for 99p ?

52

Black Five,

edinburgh 10/07/2007 07:52:37

Whinging....the only whiger was that pain in the arse Blair.Between him and his wife Zippy they`ve created a distaste for politics that will last forever.A couple of take all you can get types and they had the nerve to go on about the Hamiltons.Enough to make a cat laugh.

53

Tweedmouth,

10/07/2007 07:56:16

#31 - thank you so much. You have just given us a whingeing, anglophobic, racist diatribe that is the very epitome (look it up) of a whingeing jock.

There is a principle in social psychology called 'projection' whereby people cannot bear to look at themselves in the mirror and see their own faults, so they 'project' those faults onto otheres, often their nearest neighbours. So, we can't admit that Scots could possibly be responsible for the clearances, the Darien disaster, the Glasgow sectarianism, the endless stabbings in Glasgow and the central belt, the massive failures in comprehensive education, the appalling health record of lung cancer, bowel cancer, liver cancer - all caused by alcohol abuse, tobacco abuse, lack of exercise and appalling dietary choices.

We cant possibly be responsible for any of this can we? Of course not - its those bloody English - they caused all this.

Scotland is never going to regain the pre-eminence and prestige it enjoyed in the 19th and early 20th centuries as the workshop of the world and the cradle of education, until people stop whingeing and admit that they themselves are responsible for these failures. There is no big bad bogeyman down in 'England' - the bogeyman is inside your head.

54

Alf K.,

10/07/2007 07:57:22

Of course he`s a Scot look how careful he was with his money. Paying for a holiday naw naw naw we`ll just go over to my mates for a few days.

55

Finnking II,

Whinging in Finland, again 10/07/2007 08:05:49

3. James, Dundee

Superb!

Article:

The Scotsman News has excelled itself. A single "news" story that a)glorifies its obviously rabid, jugular biting journalism and b) manages to mention "whingeing Scots" many times!

Also, how was this guy allowed to sell his diaries? Two points: a) Will this not mean that future cabinets will be reluctant to have full and frank discussions because of the fear that such talk will be later published? (maybe a good thing?) and b) How come clowns like these folk can publish and make serious money out of the media but folk like the poor sods help prisoners in Iran were given a seriously hard time for doing so?

47. Nick_Byrne

You should hear the Finns on the subject of the Swedes or the Russians. The absurdity of 'nation states' fosters division of this nature.

56

Rob,

10/07/2007 08:07:29

I thought it was a pretty good article actually. Whingeing is now a more prominent national characteristic here than it's ever been in Australia. Also enjoyed Jay Kay's (31) demented rant and hope that he manages to get on the Scottish "Parish Council" - where doubtless he could develop his prejudice further.

57

Tamus,

10/07/2007 08:10:00

Who gives a monkeys? Scottish or not he's a tw*t all the same

58

Justy,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 08:11:57

What else can you wxpect from has-beens and failures?
Justy

59

Another bad day for hibs,

Above hibs 10/07/2007 08:22:43

One glance at the amount of whingeing on here tells you that the former PM may have had a point!

60

'Hezza,

10/07/2007 08:25:31

Day 2 in the Big Alastair Campbell Scotsman Advert.

Article 3: today, Alastair spins us a yarn about some other crap no-one believes in.

'Fake Week' in the Scotsman probably continues tomorrow...

61

Duncan in Edinburgh,

10/07/2007 08:27:47

#54 Absolutely bang on.

62

James K,

Fife 10/07/2007 08:30:39

I'm an Englishman living in Scotland and every day I am aware of some form of bigotry. Comments of small minded bigotry such as "i hate the English - present company accepted" are all too common and there are many pubs you are just not safe in with an english accent.

It is much easier to be a Scot in England than vice versa. There may be ribbing but there is no hatred. Most English football supporters would support Scotland if England aren't playing. however english people since devolution are now more aware that they are hated in scotland and in time this will be reciprocated.

I think if Scotland, concentrated on making things better rather than looking for scapegoats the country could only improve.

Incidentally why are men more anti-English than women? Could it be that they are just brainwashed by inane knuckle scraping football debate?

Then again as Scotland still has a huge culture of "i hate catholics because my dad did" how on earth can you expect Scots to like anybody remotely different?

and remember "racism is an english thing. There is no racism in scotland" as i used to hear so often. What a joke!

63

Hannah,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 08:34:07

I work out of London Heathrow airport and live in Scotland. You would be stunned at the 'slagging off' the Scots are getting in the Southern printed tabloids. The other week Daily express front page news that some Scots got free eye prescriptions and two pages of slating us Scots. It borders on racism towards the Scots.

Same day same paper printed in Scotland had a front page article on Prince William. The Express and The Mail are prime culprits for it.

What you are reading in the scottish printed newspapers please believe me is not atall what they are reading down South! Gordon Brown is getting a slating for being a Scot.

Whingeing jocks is so last decade.

The English are the biggest whingers amongst the UK. Why do we never hear the Welsh or Northern Irish complaining?

The boot is on the other foot.

64

Hannah,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 08:38:02

James K I am sorry to read that you have remarks made to you living here. Perhaps you should move to Edinburgh. Probably 30% of my friends are English and have had zero 'problems.'

When it comes to rugby and football then possibly for you that is a different matter!

Having lived in England for 3 years, albeit in the Southern parts, I can categorically state that there are many many 'racist' remarks made. Your statement is 100% incorrect.

65

eddylongshanks,

york 10/07/2007 08:39:49

hannah - "Why do we never hear the Welsh or Northern Irish complaining?" You answered it yourself - you dont see their regional edition newspapers !!

66

guru,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 08:42:31

Well after 7 years here and 15 in London the Scots do have a huge CHIP on their shoulder and given the current levels of binge drinking and lard eating will all be extinct in 20 years time

67

Sheila F,

Kaleyard 10/07/2007 08:44:25

I may have started the day whingeing good-style, but thanks for the laughs lads, the correspondence has fair made my day. How long has Cherie Blair been nick-named Zippy??? Brilliant!
Great to hear John Humphrys pinning Alistair Campbell down on 'Today' yesterday. Riveting listening.
Good riddance to the moral bankruptcy of the past ten years, after Bliar's puppeteers conned us with visions of Camelot, when we were at a low ebb after 18 years of the Tories.

68

LKK252,

10/07/2007 08:44:25

#31 Your comments make me ashamed to be Scottish

69

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 08:50:47

Increase their allowances for baccy, booze and drugs and that will stop them whinging for a while.

70

archie23,

10/07/2007 08:55:56

The English are the greatest whingers...

"The Scots are controlling our affairs"... "We have to pay for the Scots education system"..."We don't celebrate our Englishness enough..."

And to demonstrate just how important whinging is to English national identity they celebrate every St George's day by whinging about how they are prevented from celebrating St George's Day...

71

jj,

10/07/2007 09:02:29

Scotland voted them in election after election.

72

GD,

Glasgow 10/07/2007 09:05:14

Who really cares where either of them were born or went to school?
The only thing that really matters is what they've done for (or to) our country.
As for the 'whingeing' label, well that was just another attempt to keep us quiet and under the thumb, but I think you'll find the shoe on the other foot shortly as the English now feel disadvantaged.
Independence and a new working relationship is the only answer for everyone concerned.

73

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 09:09:25

Oooh the Maltese Budgy is back. You really do hate Scotland don't you?

74

maxi,

10/07/2007 09:10:36

Think it's about time we all realised, life is to bl--dy short for all this name calling.PLEASE REMEMBER, we are still ONE country, The united kingdom of great bitain and northern Ireland.

75

maf,

duns 10/07/2007 09:12:31

To 30 et al - Perhaps the English find it slightly difficult to appreciate that other nations may be a little different culturally and morally and have aims and values that are not the same as their own. That's all that needs to be said apart from the fact that I am sure we have all met 'Blairs' and 'Campbells' who try so hard to be English - by far the worst type of Scot and, unfortunately not at all unique through the ages.

76

Scotsman in Dublin,

10/07/2007 09:12:54

#63, thats a very conveniently one sided view you have there. I wonder if you clearly hate Scotland so much why you bother staying?

While racism in Scotland can not be excused dont try to paint Scotland as the bad guy and England as some "green and pleasant land" full of tolerance. The PM refers to us as "whingeing Jocks", is that not racist, what would people be saying if he used the term 'p***' or 'w**', rightly so he would be facing a media frenzy but its ok to abuse Scotland isnt it?

77

Mac Mhic Raonuill,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 09:13:31

It is not correct to state that Tony Blair always maintained he was British and not English!

Previously, in this column I cited the interview that he had on a live Scottish radio interview prior to the his first victory in the General Election, when he was appealing to Middle England for the Tory vote.

When asked "You were born and educated in Edinburgh Fettes. Are you Scottish or English ? Long pause....then boldly. "I'm English!".

Enough said. Who is really interested in someone who is ashamed of his country of birth ?
He is finished and thank God for that !

Mac Mhic Raonuill

78

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 09:14:41

Re the actual article. The one good thing that PM Brown has done since ascending to the throne has been to stop special advisers/spin doctors having authority over civil servants. There will never be another Campbell able to Lord it over public employees, sex up dossiers, bully journos and news editors. This vile specimen now finds himself having to be acquiescent to the same people he bullied and cajoled for ten years. Toadying for tv appearances and columns, long may he rot.

79

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 09:16:15

75 Doughnut

Oooh the Maltese Budgy is back. You really do hate Scotland don't you?

No, just the whingers and welfare dependants living in Scotland who are prevening the country from moving forward.

80

Scotsman in Dublin,

10/07/2007 09:16:59

#76, Maxi for all that I believe you said that with the best of intentions I think you have missed the point here. We are not all one country and never have been. We are 3 seperate countries and 6 counties of a province.

81

Jed Zeppelin,

Scotland 10/07/2007 09:17:28

What is this UK that people keep referring to? The last I heard it doesn't exist and has gone the way of the dodo...

...leaving a lot of scared and frightened englanders behind...

82

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 10/07/2007 09:24:24

"There is a 'culture of grievance' element to all the media, but the Jocks have it with knobs on" - campbell

does any other scottish person have any, any recollection of ever describing himself or his countrymen as 'jocks'

campbell you are a tosspot

83

maxi,

10/07/2007 09:25:07

82. And that kind of attitude will get us no where,wether people like it or not we are British,and until scotland,England,or wales gets independance that is the way it will stay!

84

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 10/07/2007 09:43:18

#87 - yes!

it beggars belief what this paper will publish - complete rag. so long is it puts down Scotland or the Scots it's all good as far as the hootsman is concerned.

they might as well be done with it and get some large breasts on page 3

85

Lauwrie,

10/07/2007 09:47:23

" Why do they keep claiming Bliar is Scottish? "

because he is .

Blair , along with Campbell , Reid , Darling etc etc
to be all of the same Scottish /Barnett Rulsers mould

and all very anti English

86

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 09:54:15

As a Scot, born and bred, I would have to agree with the sentiments in the article and comments re "whinging jocks". We have, as a nation, the biggest chip imaginable over England / the English and need to grow up. The great Scots philosphers, scientists, writers and engineers of the enlightenment would turn in their graves if they could see our small mindedness these days. The phrase "wha's like us? Damn few, and their a' deid" is ironic in this sense!
As far as what makes a Scot, it is a matter of personal choice. The immigrant who has lived here for 40 years and feels Scottish is more a Scot than someone like Blair who feels British rather than Scottish.

87

shivago8,

livingston 10/07/2007 09:58:20

It is hard to believe that the country was being run with these people for ten years having the attitude of children who has just had there lollipop taken from them.

88

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 09:58:31

#86 Maxi. Are you English or British?

89

Hannah,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 10:10:48

67. eddylongshanks, york / 9:39am 10 Jul 2007 hannah - "Why do we never hear the Welsh or Northern Irish complaining?" You answered it yourself - you dont see their regional edition newspapers !!

The national daily express and the national daily mail are not regional newspapers and are published in Wales and Northern Ireland.

Eddy why do we always hear the phrases 'we english taxpayers paid for this for Scotland, that for Scotland complain complain complain'

Do the Scots, Northern Irish and the Welsh not pay tax then?

Interesting how it is 'British' money being poured down into Westminster (oil gas etc.) and described as 'Scottish' money when being handed back.

The trouble with England is they are now realising what we have put up with for 300 years.

Finally a scot in power and you are all up in arms. We had Thatcher in power for ten years when NOT ONE Conservative had a seat in Scotland.

The boot is on the other foot. (About time after 300 years of English dominance.)

90

Pete,

Paisley 10/07/2007 10:11:21

Dougie Douglas # 85

"Jock" is one of the least offensive nicknames given to us Scots in England. "Sweaty sock" usually results in the offender being invited outside for sudden re-education in the Scottish mould.

I would also like to meet Jay Kay # 31. But, we have all met someone like him. Opinionated, on the dole, half drunk, slagging everyone off for HIS predicament. He has a mouth like a clowns pocket and won't keep it shut.

On the point of whingeing Scots I refer to my post on this site yesterday at # 26 here; http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=926&id=106625...

91

maxi,

10/07/2007 10:13:16

92. I am both English AND British, and please don't say you can't be both, because you can!

92

maxi,

10/07/2007 10:17:28

93. But gordy doesn't call himself a scot, he's "north british"!

93

punklin,

glasgow 10/07/2007 10:17:36

Please help me. I was born in England. I have lived most of my life in Scotland where I came to work. Thius is home but I can't do the accent. What am I?

Confused!

94

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 10:20:47

#96 Maxi. I wouldn't dream of it. However, when you meet people abroad do you refer to yourself as English or British first?

95

Boab,

Glasgow 10/07/2007 10:21:17

Sounds like The Scotsman, spinning a story about the Scottish Raj who run England, complaining about a Scottish journalistic conspiracy. Must be dead confusing for those poor Anglo-serfs keeping us on the gravy train up here in Jockland.

Come on Gordo, raise their taxes!

96

Helen,

10/07/2007 10:24:40

James K #63: I've also been at the receiving end of anti-English abuse. I even had my car windscreen smashed last year because of my England flag, yet when I was walking through York recently and saw someone wearing a Scotland shirt, I didn't feel the need to batter them or give them a mouthful of verbal abuse. The annoying thing is that in my spare time I'm actively involved with non-league football in Scotland and give my time freely to promote the beautiful game.

97

Guga II,

Rockall 10/07/2007 10:26:32

I reiterate, Bliar is not Scottish. Not only did he have English parents, but he has stated that he considers himself English.

He also has total contempt for the Scots.

These being the facts, how can anyone claim that he is Scottish?

As I also stated, being born in a stable doesn't make you a horse.

98

European Scot,

10/07/2007 10:27:58

Maxi 76

You are quite right, the name calling is not necessary, quite pointless in fact, all it does is to determine the 'quality' of the poster.

As for your later comment:-

Maxi 86

" And that kind of attitude will get us no where,wether people like it or not we are British,and until scotland,England,or wales gets independance that is the way it will stay!"

This is where we part company, Britain is not one country.
This particular poster stopped believing in Kings and Queens just after giving up on Santa Clause, and so I certainly do not believe in Kingdoms, united or otherwise.
As a Scot, not a Brit, I would like to see Scotland fully independent and representing itself in Europe, alongside England and Wales.
At present changes are taking place, and to use your term, "like it or not", there will be no going back. As for remaining British until independence, and your remark "that is how it will stay", it would seem you do not approve of the idea of Scotland gaining its' independence.
For me the idea that one country should be run from the capital city of another country is simply not acceptable.
London is the capital city of England.
Edinburgh is the capital city of Scotland.
Let's just get on with re-establishing both, and having a far better relationship between the two independent countries of England and Scotland as a result.

Interesting to see how you use capital letters for England and British, but not for Scotland and Wales. We need to sort out our capitals in more ways than one !!

99

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 10:30:41

#98 - What do you want to be? Scottishness / Englishness / Britishness is a choice for the individual. Only 'legal' nationality is decided (i.e. most of us here are British in terms of our passports) and even that can be altered for some.

100

doris d,

10/07/2007 10:31:14

30 Auckland Arab

As they say "Bring it on". Oh, and by the way, if you really feel that way about the Scots why do you waste your valuable time posting to a Scottish rag?

101

maxi,

10/07/2007 10:31:30

99. I always say britain, then usually get asked "what part" then I say England.

102

connaughtboy,

10/07/2007 10:36:15

#63 James K

And when were you last a Scot in England?

103

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 10:36:38

101 - As a Scot, I do feel we have this massive national 'chip' which sometimes comes out as this kind of bigotry / racism against the English. It's the only thing I would change about my country, and Blair's reported comments in the article were spot on...

104

bad, bill,

10/07/2007 10:38:17

103 zoom

this half and half which is that down the middle or top and bottom.

left or right'inside out or what please let us know i'm all
muddled up part welsh, part scots,part italian and a little bit jewish

105

doris d,

10/07/2007 10:42:56

I recall an occasion in London when a fellow Scot and I entered a Board Room for a meeting with some prominent media types, and we were greeted by someone calling out-"Hey look out-here come the sweaties!!"
That was the first time I had heard the expression (which I was later told stands for "Sweaty socks"-Jocks!)
I think that there are real double standards in this country. If a couple of Pakistanis had entered the room would they have been treated to an equivalent greeting?
The fact that Bliar and Campbell indulged in this kind of dialogue merely illustrates what a sensless pair of prats they truly are!

106

connaughtboy,

10/07/2007 10:43:48

#66 Hannah

As a Scot who lived in the Midlands then East Anglia for a total of 12 years I completely agree with you.

What James K is actually saying (although he probably doesn't realise it) is that the Scots are racist and bigoted and the English aren't. The irony is that by making such a statement (which is clearly factually incorrect) he is the who is being racist and bigoted.

107

maxi,

10/07/2007 10:44:25

105. I am simply stating a fact, you can live in denial all you want, but until Scotland gets Independance you are part of Great Britain!

108

connaughtboy,

10/07/2007 10:53:48

#101 Helen

Life must be very pleasant in your simplistic little world!

109

moxi,

10/07/2007 10:54:26

Yeah, but you are not that part that makes Briton GREAT cos that is England and when I grow up I want it to be Great England and scotland can get STUFFED!!!

110

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 10:55:39

'108. maxi / 11:31am 10 Jul 2007

99. I always say britain, then usually get asked "what part" then I say England.'

Really? I've never experienced it quite that way. In fact I'd go as far as to say, I've never met anyone who refers to themselves as British first.

In my experience, and I'd wager the same for a number of Scots on here, is that Johnny Foreigner always assumes that one is English.

Only upon correction do they tend to realise that Britain does not exist as a single country rather a composite of Kingdoms, a principality and a province.

So will you be referring to yourself as British and Scottish when you marry and move her?

111

,

10/07/2007 10:58:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
112

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 10:59:52

116 - shhh, the grown ups are talking....

113

moxi,

10/07/2007 11:00:58

yeah - helen, shows how insecure scotlands people are for smashing you car window-screen.

114

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 10/07/2007 11:01:44

#25 published by Lulu? You can't get more Scottish than that.

115

maxi,

10/07/2007 11:02:12

moxi. LOST THE ARGUEMENT AGAIN, SO HAVE TO TAKE THE P--S, YOU ARE WHAT IS VILE AND DEGRADEING ABOUT SCOTLAND, HOPE YOUR FELLOW SCOTS ARE ASHAMED OF YOUR PATHETIC THREADS!!!!!!!!!!

116

,

10/07/2007 11:04:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
117

maxi,

10/07/2007 11:06:06

117. yes, because that's where i'll be!

118

,

10/07/2007 11:07:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
119

Fan of ' the Arts '.,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 11:14:22

This story is just self - indulgent navel gazing; there are bigger stories in Scotland, the UK and the world.

120

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 11:24:01

#124 - You're right - we are definitely NOT the raciest nation. I mean, how often do you see basques being worn in Princes Street or teeny-weeny polka dot bikinis in the office?

121

jabberjocky,

ed 10/07/2007 11:28:28

scotland will win the world cup

122

maxi,

10/07/2007 11:29:14

126. lighten up,IT WAS A JOKE! I don't care

123

maxi,

10/07/2007 11:35:07

127. moxi is scottish, and NO relation to me. he/she is a pathetic human being who finds great delight in sh-t stirring and being as controversial as possible!

124

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 11:36:45

128 jabberjocky

scotland will win the world cup

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Me sides are spltting. Hell will freeze over before Scotland wins the world cup.

125

Publius,

London (but will be back in Scotland onThursday) 10/07/2007 11:38:11

There was a b-gg-r called Guga
who lived with a parrot in Rocall
The parrot could squawk like Kirsty Wark
but the bugg-r called Guga knew f---all

126

Generalissimo Hernandez,

10/07/2007 11:44:11

#131

Exactly, let's shout on the mighty Malta!

127

,

10/07/2007 11:45:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
128

RAVIS,

the borders 10/07/2007 11:48:28

i'm a geordie! i consider myself north british by inclination. i have more in common with the scots than the english and my north east roots have sometimes led me to get an extra piece of lorne in guest houses north of the border. i've just come back from a fortnight in leodhas - and very nice it was too. i found the english settlers (apparenlty mostly on the west coast) perfectly happy in their surroundings and islanders and scots incomers equally at ease, as i have found everytime i have forayed north of hadrian's wall. i sometimes wonder if those who moan about the attitude of the scots/english are projecting their own miserable outlook on the world, and recieving as they give.
there is not much to be gained by projecting englishness in scotland - if you travel to a foreign country it is courtesy to at least adopt some of the culture. i have seen english tourists being english at the scots and it does indeed get backs up. the larger majority of the english will never travel to scotland and thier ridiculous views of scottishness will never be challenged. we just have to accept that most people never leave the inside of their own head and unfortunately stereo types will continue to persist.

now, if you don't mind, i'll just don my flat cap and go see to the greyhounds.

129

Jay Kay,

Dunfermline 10/07/2007 11:54:02

#33 why, what is your definition of being a Scot.

I gave mine its what I believe.

whats your problem.

130

fred bloggs,

10/07/2007 11:55:31

This island we live on is called Britain, so anyone born on it is British.

131

,

10/07/2007 11:56:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
132

Saoghal Beag,

10/07/2007 11:58:29

# 112 Doris D, I too have had similar experiences while working in London. offensive racists comments aimed at Scots that would, as you say never be aimed at Pakistanis, Indians or any other ethnic group. Double standards indeed. The one thing i did learn in London is what "tight" really means, and they talk about Aberdonians!

Moxi, you poor deluded wee soul. England gained an empire, rather quickly and lost it even quicker through incompetence and an inability to accept that other nations ahve different ways for different reasons. Do it the english way, cos the english are all better than you. England is many things but great it certainly ain't. The sooner you whinging lot get over that the sooner you can get on with ruinning your own country, you don't even have a government just now.

And if you lot get your act together you will then be in a position to follow the example scotland will be setting you. good luck.

133

Jay Kay,

Dunfermline 10/07/2007 11:58:41

I really don't want to winge and I have nothing personal against the English, I have many friends who are English and they are great guys. But honestly I really dont want to be ruled from Westminster by a government who thinks the country stops at the watford gap.

134

maxi,

10/07/2007 11:58:50

thank you fred, my point exactly!

135

maxi,

10/07/2007 12:00:26

139. niether do the people in the north of england!

136

Jay Kay,

Dunfermline 10/07/2007 12:02:49

47# I get your point the problem is Germany isnt governed by Austria, and Sweden isnt governed by Norway.

Look lets just say this, give us independence and I mean total independance to govern ourselves. If we f*ck it up then we f*ck it up, at least we will be moaning about our own problems and we can keep those to ourselves.

Or is that to much to ask #33

137

Scott 'Ola' Foam,

Scotland 10/07/2007 12:07:33

Who cares were now rid of the confuse and baffle administration of the likes of Blair and Campbell, hopefully the new administration will face their problems instead of palming us off with nonsense.

When in history has anything been different between Westminster and Scotland? Guess it would be a waste of money buying this crap book, to make an untrustworthy backstabber some money.

138

Bzzzz1314,

Alba gu brath! 10/07/2007 12:09:51

He's a unionist, who gies a fook what he says, their days are numbered.
The future is bright, the future's INDEPENDENCE!

139

IainA,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 12:10:33

Sounds like an exercise in chat-bumming by the Scotsman Journos. "Blair afraid of Hootsmon, more news at eleven"

140

Gregor Addison,

Münster, Germany 10/07/2007 12:11:00

Who cares if he is Scottish or not? It doesn't matter, does it? The point is that he sought to centralize power in such a way that he led his party to an election defeat for the first time in fifty years. It was his unwillingness to grasp the devolution he helped usher in that led to this defeat. For Blair, devolution was always only tolerable so long as the Labour Party had control of it, were able to limit it, and could prevent the flow of further powers away from Westminster. There are plenty of Scots in Scotland who agree with him on that. I happen to think it lost them the last election.

141

wattie>x 1,

10/07/2007 12:14:34

#2> How right you are! Leo's original name I believe
was Parsons. He was literally dumped by his former parents as he had became an obstacle to their way of life then. The Blairs were active socialists during World War One and Mrs Blair was unable to have a family of her own due to a Medical problem; hence her adoption of Leo. Over the period; she became bonded to him and also came too completely adore
him as well. Leo change his name to Blair by deed poll when he returned from military service on the ending of the last war. He was also a committed member of the Communist Party at one time and later; like Comrade Reid, Mandleson; Johnson and a few more who became renegades; to become New Labour Party Champagne socialists. Campbell; whose parents came from Kilmarnock before moving to England; had been in the veterinary line off business. Alastair was an ambitious, obnoxious character who went into journalism and became an employee with Robert Maxwell's Dailly Mirror. I also believe Alastair had an admiration for Bob the crook, who stole millions off £s of pensioners fund money.
I also believe he tried his hand at busking with the bagpipes; and also was involved with writing some form off porn, or other.
I do know for certain, he was definately employed in Plymouth and Tavistock as a journalist with a Westcountry Newspaper. Then; I think he was a rookie journalist; so you see, just like most of Blair and Brown's New Labour Party Champagne socialists, he had the ready made ingredients for admittance to its poliburo.
What continues to baffle me, is how the voters off this country allowed themselves to be continually lied, deceived and manipulated for over 10 long years. This will make number one spot for centuries to come, in the future history books. We will all be for ever remembered; as the most politically naive in modern UK history!

142

Jay Kay,

Dunfermline 10/07/2007 12:19:23

#54 I think you will find that the governing policies that have left this country devoid of any real hope are responsible for the culture you quote.

I can look at myself in the mirror, I don't drink nor do I smoke. I don't walk the streets carrying a knive nor do I take drugs.

I work bl**dy hard to scrape a living and I keep fit, I think you will find ten years of Nulab are responsible for the problems described.

Sure we could do with kick up the a*se and maybe sorting out the policing laws in this country could help with the crime rates.

If we start to re-build our economy we might not have so many abject apathetic youth scrounging of the Dole or knocking down old ladies in order to get money for drugs.

But let me say this I believe the SNP have shown more backbone in the few weeks they have been in power than Nulab did in ten f*cking years.

As for no bogey man down in England who then robbed the pension fund of millions of pounds?
who got us and I mean Scotland into an ilegal war all because his pal over seas wanted to extract some kind of revenge.

Who has systematically destroyed the legal system and brought the police to their knees.

Not the bogeyman and I am sorry to say he is Scottish.

Ive said it before let us govern ourselves we couldnt do any worse.

143

Mad Cherie,

London 10/07/2007 12:20:27

Pity he only described the journo's as whingeing jocks...you could argue it applies to the whole country.

144

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 12:22:19

149 Methalions.

Malta are actually quite a good footballing team. Played the reigning European Champions, Greece, a couple of months ago and were unlucky to lose 1-0. The league football here though is not anywhere near the standard of the British leagues.

145

European Scot,

10/07/2007 12:25:27

137 Fred Bloggs

I'm living at the moment in Europe, so what does one call the Spanish, Portuguese, French, Dutch, Belgians, Germans, Italians, Swiss, etc.?
Following your logic, just Europeans, presumably.
Norwegians and Swedes may have somethng to say about just being called Scandinavians.
Scot living in Spain !

146

Harryc,

10/07/2007 12:27:11

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!! Diddums!!! Jay Kay 152 feels all hard done by from the English. well fiddle fiddle that's all I can say. You're the reason the term "whingeing Jocks" was used in the first place and I fully agree with it. Sometimes I dream of the day that I can get the hell out of this pathetic, sad, moany country. I used to have a sense of national pride, but not any more. Hearing people like you is exactly the sort of thing that ruins it all for everybody.

147

Generalissimo Hernandez,

10/07/2007 12:27:43

We all live in Europe; we're all Europeans.

I propose a European superstate, with my good self as president for life, at least until I can gather forces to take the rest of the world.

Viva la revolucion, my fellow European countrymen!

148

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 12:29:01

Blair was born a Scot and has of course the right to call himself Scottish but he has chosen his own identity as English. He said at the time of devolution "power will remain with me as an English MP."

What Campbell's remarks show is that Blair had utter contempt for the people of Scotland and to be honest it always showed.

Also Campbell's secret celebrations of England's loss at football shows the reality of the British state.
If you're Scots born and are high up enough in Britain you have to either claim you're English like Tony, wrap yourself in an ill fitting Union Jack, like Gordon or subsume your own feelings and pretend you support the establishment view, like Campbell.

How can anyone trust this shower of lying gits?

www.scottishindependence.com

149

Jay Kay,

Dunfermline 10/07/2007 12:31:27

#34 Eddie, my apologies I know a lot of good mates in the midlands and northern England, nothing against them i feel that the English themselves have a division in thier own country the so called watford gap..

And no we didnt stay long enough in France to be part French 100% Scots im afraid. But like those 100% english im proud of my country.

Wish there were more like that.

150

Jay Kay,

Dunfermline 10/07/2007 12:34:41

#157 listen mate nothing stopping you, just dont let the door hit your ass on the way out.

151

Jaimeson,

10/07/2007 12:37:29

Why do the 'smelly mingers' who post on here, a Scottish newspaper board, one of them at 5.38AM for god's sake, tell me why. Are they just stupid or are they poor miserable little englishmen who haven't got a life away from their computor?

152

Help Ma Boab,

Sunshine on Leith 10/07/2007 12:40:42

English readers - heopfully you will be able to completely dismiss the idiotic "we wuz robbed" mentality of a lot of nationalists on this site, this being the Scotsman i think it tends to attract a lot of loons. They are pretty much the equivalent of the English who go abroad shouting "Who won the War", a daft minority and not a reflection of Scots or English at large.

To all "rabid" nationalists - grow up and look to yourself rather than obsessing over all the wrongs done to Scotland. We have done a lot of wrongs ourselves around the world, if we expect to be forgiven for that maybe we should stop whinging about what rich English AND Scots have done to Scotland (and England, Wales etc, why on earth do we think we are unique in our past misery?). Scotland can be great, just as England can, but not if we act like bitter spurned lovers.

153

Brideun,

Balloch 10/07/2007 12:42:55

#145 Scott etc etc Which book are you referring to, are you a critic? Have you read a book? I await with interest for your profound views!

154

Publius,

london 10/07/2007 12:43:12

#159 Magic Hoops. Thanks for your encouraging words. Someone has to reply to people like Guga II who get up at 1.30 am to post messages to the Scotsman. In my younger days I could find better things to do in the middle of the night.
P.S. What rhymes with with hoops and Fife?

155

maxi,

10/07/2007 12:43:14

For the love of god, listen to yourselves, wether you are English or Scottish, we all love our home nation and that's how it should be,but leaving politics out of this,why can't we be united under the union flag!

156

maxi,

10/07/2007 12:48:24

166. thank god,sanity.

157

John B Dick,

Rothesay 10/07/2007 12:48:40

TB is perceived as Scottish in England, and as English in Scotland.

I try not to feel sorry for him.

158

James K,

Fife 10/07/2007 12:49:33

re #109 when were you last a scot in england?

well my wife and family were for twenty years and were treated as anyone else. having come back to scotland with a mixed accent she is frequently told by male workmates that she is 'a foreigner'.

i also know a lot of scots on the stand-up circuit who will tell you they are well received anywhere in england but that they wouldn't fancy being an unknown english comedian in scotland.

i came to scotland because i naively hoped i might get away from this ugly "two world wars and one world cup" boorish superior attitude of many people in england. well i have but here that attitude is replaced by the scottish chip on the shoulder about the english.

neither place is perfect and both have their good sides but ANYONE WHO DENIES THESE PROBLEMS EXIST is simply part of the problem.

i also agree with what a lot of people have said about England football and the way the BBC use the word 'we'. the problem is that english children are not taught that 'english' and 'british' do not mean the same thing. it gets my goat though too.

also to SCOTSMAN IN DUBLIN. i think you should grow up. i don't 'hate' anyone. I am an internationalist who has simply stated MY EXPERIENCES.
I merely find it sad that in a part of the UK, certain UK citizens are judged on their accent rather than their personality by IRA supporting bigots like you who are so thick they can't spell the word 'sepArate'

159

,

10/07/2007 12:50:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
160

Philip Watson,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 12:51:00

The union is dead; goodbye to the majority of the english moaners on here. If you want free prescriptions, you should move to Wales. I'm sure you'd all be welcomed with open arms (lol).

Scotland, first and foremost.

161

European Scot,

10/07/2007 12:51:15

The Union flag of today has gold stars on a blue background.
The Union flag of yesterday has the red cross of England over the fragmented crosses of those beneath it. The symbolism is self evident.
Not a favourite emblem, as with the anthem that goes with it !

162

Generalissimo Hernandez,

10/07/2007 12:52:21

#170

Maxi

What's so great about sanity, wibble?

163

Scotsman in Dublin,

10/07/2007 12:53:20

#169, maxi, we are leaving politics out of this, this has nothing to do with politics. Its about nationhood.

164

Peter McWilliam,

10/07/2007 12:54:31

137,140,141

You're wrong. It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, a political entity comprising the Kingdoms of Scotland and England, Northern Ireland and the Principality of Wales.

165

Miss Jean Brodie,

10/07/2007 13:00:17

Free Pictland !

166

Miss Jean Brodie,

10/07/2007 13:02:22

Free Pictland from the broken society of the British !

167

Scotsman in Dublin,

10/07/2007 13:02:53

#172, James K, you are a moron. You have accused me of being an "IRA supporting bigot" and chastised me for mis-spelling a word. I have no time at all for the IRA and anyone who gives them time. As for being a bigot, I am curious to know why you think i am a bigot, you probably presumed that I was catholic because i am in Dublin and i used the phrase '6 counties' - says more about you than it does me dont you think.

p.s. many apologies about the spelling I didnt realise there was a spelling moderator on the boards.

168

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 13:05:58

Methalions @ 156 MALTA FOR THE WORLD CUP. What an utterly stupid thing to say. Like Scotland, Malta has'nt got a hope in hell of winning the world cup.

169

Help Ma Boab,

Sunshine on Leith 10/07/2007 13:09:38

#63 and #172 - excellent posts.

170

Andrew Ireland,

Dublin 10/07/2007 13:49:24

The joy and the burden of national identity is that you don't get to choose who your fellow nationals are. I am proud of being Scottish I can't pretend I am not pleased that Tony Blair does not want to be a Scot, but he would be perfectly entitled to identify himself as Scottish. The important thing is what you want to be...

171

James K,

Fife 10/07/2007 13:49:57

#184

Don't know where you lived so can't possibly comment. i only really know the north west of england.

as a northern english person you are also sneered at in SE England and constantly asked to repeat words because they find your pronunciation amusing. and have to listen to lots of "ey up lad" "where's tha whippet?"

the union in its current guise is certainly not working. our prime minister after all cannot make any decisions on health, education or the law in his own constituency but he can in david cameron's. this is insane.

the english - particularly in the northern more working class areas are starting to change regarding Scotland.

i think once we saw Scotland as another partner in misery but now northern English people, who are still marginalised by westminster see Scotland getting more and it smarts.

There are just as many people in the North west as in Scotland yet they don't get free eye tests, subsidised university education or Independent Learning Agreements despite contributing just the same in income tax and NI.

I am glad Scotland has devolution and is doing OK but i think it is understandable (if not necessarily right) that some people in England resent so many Scots in power at westminster when really in the modern world westminster is primarily the english parliament. holyrood is the domestic parliament of scotland andthe only way that Scottish MPs can represent Scotland is to vote on foreign policy, defence and the economy.

English people see it as "having your cake and eating it".

I have lived in both France and Germany and being in a real foreign country makes you realise how ridiculously similar the English and the Scots really are by comparison.

It's the old thing from Gullivers Travels about how the two groups were at war and nobody could remember why they hated each other and it transpired the only reason and noticeable difference was which end o

172

connaughtboy,

10/07/2007 13:52:36

#172 James K

You are viewing England through rose-tinted specs my friend. I don't deny it exists in Scotland, but it does in England too. Fact! My advice to you is to open your eyes or you are the one who will be "part of the problem"!

173

connaughtboy,

10/07/2007 14:00:56

#190 James K

What are you havering about? You say:

"Don't know where you lived so can't possibly comment. i only really know the north west of england."

So why are you commenting on behalf of England if you only really know the north west?

Also you say:

"as a northern english person you are also sneered at in SE England and constantly asked to repeat words because they find your pronunciation amusing. and have to listen to lots of "ey up lad" "where's tha whippet?""

So if they sneer at an English person in the SE of England what do you think they do to a Scots person? I think your whole argument just died on it's feet!

174

Mac Coinneach,

Canada 10/07/2007 14:02:22

And seeing Mr. Campbell was one of Blair's spin doctors, which part of his book are we supposed to believe? The index perhaps?

175

boybilly,

Portessie 10/07/2007 14:10:27

Calm down, calm down people. Its no real, its only politics. Blair, Brown, and Campbell - never had a real job and could never be trusted to organise a function in a brewery. The subsidy junkies in the South-East will always we with us until we dump them. They have been kept alive by the rest of the UK allowing our jobs and wealth to go south to maintain a false economy. Not just Scotland but the rest of the UK needs to recognise there are 2 Uks and we need to stop the one way traffic. Let's reverse the southward flow of people and capital. If Ireland can do it, why can't we?

176

James Moore,

10/07/2007 14:14:08

For once i agree with Campbell, Scots are some of the biggest whingers with a massive chip on their shoulder as well for good measure! You only have to look at this message board!

By the way i am a Scot!

177

James K,

Fife 10/07/2007 14:20:09

#191 and #192

I meant that i have only lived in the north west however i do read newspapers, books, news magazines and speak to people from all over the world.

puzzled as to how my argument has fallen on its feet. i wonder if you know what my argument really is?

in my posts today i have i) expressed that there is a lot of bitterness in scotland to the english and ii) there is a superior attitude amongst many people in england (particularly in SE england).

i don't think either of these is untrue. it's funny how people give advice to others that they don't heed themselves isn't it, open-eye boy?

my overall argument, as an internationalist, is: there are more things which unite us than divide us whether that suits you or not. but the more we keep playing the same old record, the worse it will get.

in an ideal world i would prefer it if the english didn't think they were 'born better' and scots didn't blame the english for having a bad day.

incidentally, connaughtboy, when you read the 'big papers' do you understand the long words or do you have to get it translated in the pub?

178

connaughtboy,

10/07/2007 14:26:55

#196 James K

I'll ignore the last paragraph of your post because it's just silly.

One of you main thrusts today has been to argue that Scots living in England don't get abused by the English whilst English living in Scotland do get abused by the Scots.

Here was your opening salvo:

"It is much easier to be a Scot in England than vice versa. There may be ribbing but there is no hatred"

I think you have read enough evidence on here to disprove your statement.

179

Pictus,

Rainbow Valley 10/07/2007 14:28:33

#178, Miss Jean Brodie - "Free Pictland!", you cry! What a grand slogan! Let it ring from every mountain! You are certainly in your prime today! Now, if only Maxi would marry a Pict next month . . .!

180

maxi,

10/07/2007 14:38:19

james K. you are wasting your time,I like you find people in the SE of England look down on us northerners,and like you feel there is more to unite us than divide us, but it's like banging your head of a brick wall!

181

maxi,

10/07/2007 14:39:49

pictus. sorry, and he supports Rangers to boot!!!!!!!!

182

,

10/07/2007 14:42:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
183

,

10/07/2007 14:43:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
184

Andra, Dundee,

10/07/2007 14:47:25

So Guga II, with all these tests you'd make people pass before becoming Scottish - how many of the current population are actually Scottish. I think you are a bigoted twit, you are a disgrace to Scotland. We are not all whinging losers - but it's very difficult for the rest of us to overcome this impression that you have burdened us with.

185

Ex-pat observer,

10/07/2007 14:49:11

#161 - do you know where the Watford Gap is?

#172 - I am a Scot living in England and have no problems at all. And when my English accented kids and my English wife come up to Scotland with me, they have no problems either. In my experience, the whole England/Scotland hostility thing is overdone, but then I am from the Borders and maybe it is less of an issue there in the first place.

However, it does suit certain agendas on both sides of the border for there to be problems. Hostility and resentment are ideal recruiting tools for a certain kind of nationalist - both English and Scottish.

#184 - rubbish

186

Bobo,

10/07/2007 14:50:35

You know it was Scottihs journalists he described as whingers with knbos on. He's right.

187

Help Ma Boab,

Whingeland 10/07/2007 14:54:38

#196 and #197 - Being a Scot who has lived in England, the South East, i can only agree that it is worse here being English than it is being a Scot down South. Yes i got ribbing, but that was just banter which is fine and usually funny. From what i have been told from my English friends here, and having seen it myself on many occassions, the anti-English attitude in Scotland has a lot of hatred and aggression behind it. Which is just plain silly, in comparison to the last paragraph at #196 which i thought was funny, and something for #197 to consider with an open mind. From what i have read tho, i do not expect they will.

188

Ex-pat observer,

10/07/2007 14:58:57

#199 - just interested to know more about the people in the SE of England that look down on northerners and Scots. Who are they? Would it be the hundreds of thousands who have Scots, Welsh or Irish blood, the recent eastern European arrivals, those from the Carribean, the Indian sub-continent and Africa? If so, why would they have such an attitude? Does residence in the SE of England mean that you will by definition look down on the Scots and northerners? Or are you talking generalised nonsense?

189

Professor's Ajayi Adeniyi,

USA 10/07/2007 14:59:37

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of the World Bank at my White House.l am also the Next
President of the USA.gov at my White House.l am the High Frontier since 1995 in Europe.l am for Non-profits And Charity.This is my WorldVision,This my WorldVolunteer.,
This is my International Jobs.,and more.....l am camping the World.The world at my finger Tips.Best regards and for my wishes.This is my Heritage Foundation Digging since 1973 in USA,Europe.
Thanks,
eCommunications direct comments from l, Professor's
Ajayi Adeniyi.
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190

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 14:59:38

Arguing politics here is very much like making love to a beautiful woman. You pretend to listen to your opponent, string 'em along with some half-lies and evasions about national identity, probe some deep dark holes, and then hand over all your money.

191

connaughtboy,

10/07/2007 15:00:41

#204

See #202 for a different view.

The lesson here is that generalisations are always a poor idea!

192

boybilly,

Portessie 10/07/2007 15:01:43

Scotland - Pop., approx., 5,ooo,ooo
Resources - Some of the best fishing waters in the world: Abundant agricultural and livestock resource - Outstanding scenic and diverse landscapes attracting a healthy tourist industry - Oil that, contrary to government propaganda, has still vast quantities to yield - Water aplenty - Natural Gas and coal
I could go on, but what I really want to know is, firstly, how come a population of 5million couldn't survive or perhaps even be quite comfortably self sufficient with aforementioned resources?
Secondly, these politician that have been heard to comment that Scotland is being subsidised by England, what makes them think that we 5million in Scotland enjoy polluting our beautiful land with Wind farms that are not cost effective, huge pylons, Nuclear Power stations etc to service the 50plus million south of the border, but mostly the high-dependency consumers in the South East?

193

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 15:01:54

#201 Andra. Well done, it needed saying. The man/woman is a disgrace to Scotland. I wonder if his/her parrot would pass the tests to determine its Scottishness. Probably would as its probably got more intelligence than Guga II

194

Hagar,

Somerset 10/07/2007 15:02:51

An article about 2 Scots discussing Scots journalists is reported in a Scots newspaper dissolves into a slanging match across the border.
LOL! Who would of suspected that would happen??

195

puskas,

10/07/2007 15:03:50

No31 Jay Kay

Well put my friend....

I wish we had more forward thinkers to move our country on.
The last Holyrood election took us forward to our goal and that was with a media totally backing a unionist vote.
With that kind of backing you never know how far we as a nation would go. Certainly upwards lets have no doubt about that .
My fellow Scot a good post.... Slightly different from the usual ....Cheers

196

James K,

Fife 10/07/2007 15:03:52

# 202

well said. and also help ma boab and jay kay.

incidentally to Guga. Blair's father was brought up in Scotland as was TB. Blair's mother was an Ulster Protestant of Scots descent who moved to Scotland in childhood. Come on, get a grip.

Reading Scottish papers one could be forgiven for thinking that JK Rowling is more Scottish than Y NOT B LIAR. interesting, eh?

197

Pete,

Paisley 10/07/2007 15:03:55

Look what all the whingeing has landed Scotland with; Alec Salmond as First Minister.
There is a lesson there, somewhere.

198

James K,

Fife 10/07/2007 15:04:41

sorry I meant "well said maxi". Not jay kay!!!!!!!

199

Help Ma Boab,

Whingeland 10/07/2007 15:08:31

#208 - ok i have read it but in what way does it support your views? It is more middle road by saying there is not really a problem. I would agree, most folk are fine, but sadly the Scots are more aggressive towards the English (on the whole) than the other way round (and for that i look back on over 30 years of experience seeing many of my friends and family get caught up in the "we hate England" nonsense, myself too at one point). We can all bang on about the reason why we have the chip on shoulder mentality, but it does not help the cause and makes the resenter appear rather silly and extremely childish. If Scotland is goign to make it as an independent country, we need to ditch that attitude or otherwise we will never be able to ditch the cringe mentality we have become used to through not taking any reponsibilty, ever, for the mistakes our past government's have made.

200

A Wallace Fan from Canada,

Ontario, Canada 10/07/2007 15:13:50

Blair's claim to being Scottish just proves what I always say - There are two kinds of people in the world: Those of us who ARE Scottish and the rest who wish they were.

201

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 10/07/2007 15:15:03

Campbell's diaries condensed: The inside story of the Blair years
For eight years, he was the Prime Minister's right-hand man, the most powerful spin-doctor Westminster had ever seen. Now, in these extracts from his long-awaited diaries, Alastair Campbell tells the inside story of his tempestuous life in the corridors of power
I read the comments. The issue is serious but seems to have been taken as joke. We are not trying to be poetic. This is a reality. It poet you tend to emotional. This is a fact. Let me explain. This is a think tank and gives the best that you can have, call this inactive or active, the truth has to come out this is not a movie.
Was the WMD right? Was Saddam related to Osama? Was this not the vengeance of Bush for the attack of Saddam on Kuwait? Was this not also the father’s failures in the American economy?
Was Mr. Tony Blaire really prepared to go to war? Were not the dossier sexed up and BBC had a problem and Andrew Gilligan has to leave BBC and the chairman too? What we are talking about is like the prince who has a wand. He waves and the frog turns into the princess.
Here it is Mr. Bush who holds the wand. He nominates any one he likes. The World Bank farce cannot be forgotten. He keeps the smile and in the Great 8 meeting there is still a disparage in what to do about the mislaid shield. Putin is opposed to Bush and Tony Blaire states something more rubbish now. Brown visits the Iraq and the withdrawal program of the British soldiers according to him ought to be speeded up but Blaire is quite on this and states that the media is killing the people. I agree. But if the media do not report what do we read, how do we know what is happening where. To shut the mouth of the media is to kill Mr. Blaire’s wrong doing. After all it is the millions of mail that knocked him out of the office. Even now I doubt if THE GREAT8 will deliver the short listed pledge. I thank all for putting the picture the way the wall is pai

202

A Wallace Fan from Canada,

Ontario, Canada 10/07/2007 15:15:07

Blair's claim to being Scottish just proves what I always say - There are two kinds of people in the world: those of us who ARE Scottish and the rest who wish they were.

203

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 10/07/2007 15:19:31

cntd
Hamid Karzai and wants the British to get away from his soil. But the British say they will stay. Is this democracy, globalization or the rich becoming rich and poor becoming poor?
This is farce. DOW JONES hit 12000 in June 1999 and there was jubilance, now it is above 13000 and the CPI index is still dicey not to show that there is no money in the coffer but there is a play some where there is no money and fiduciary issues are in the circle. Now here comes the truth just the truth that is a bitter pill to swallow. The Army major in the Iraq says the allied forces will have to stay in Iraq for more then 10 to 15 years. Assuming that the Mr. Bush told the public right about the WMD, assuming that Mr., Blaire knowing one yearbook refused to go to war, assuming that the there is , and there is no relationship of Saddam and Osama, assuming that the democracy call is in line with what the power nations want. Why do the Americans want to hold on to sty in Iraq?
Two reason. Saudi does not want Iraq to be the Shias dominated as this will be then the shaking hands with Iran and Saudi does not like Iran, then Persia.
Number two, The Embassy of The American was not built for any reason if the stay was to be short. The tents and the small tin houses would have been good enough for the American to stay and throw the Iraq in chaos after Saddam
But the picture is not the sand dunes no it the American life but the economy of USA that is showing cracks. The FP.com lists many countries that are doomed. The Power for the People, the book well acclaimed for the super power dominating states like FP.COM that although the paper dollar is shining it is in anticipation of the oil that will come.
Put simply Mr. Blaire was thorn in the wheel of the usurping of the oil as was robin cook. . Colin Powell on 9th admitted that the USA ought not to go to war. However the democracy call was a fake one.
What has been the result? Russia, North Korea, China,

204

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 15:21:09

#221 A Wally Fan from Canada.

Blair's claim to being Scottish just proves what I always say - There are two kinds of people in the world: those of us who ARE Scottish and the rest who wish they were.

Keep saying it and you may convince yourself, but no one else, that it is true.

205

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 10/07/2007 15:21:22

Coming back to my comments. What have the press released today. Mr. Blaire knew about the war that was not to be fought? Who speaks this? His very good friend. Globalization is not irrelevant to global governance, but it is not transformative either.
It is to some degree outsourcing and lying as I read the Thomas Friedman The World s Flat; it tells me how the Indians are taught to speak in American accent.
The biggest attacks when a friend pokes you right between your eyes in public. Now this is no Joke.

206

connaughtboy,

10/07/2007 15:23:02

#218 My point is that it may not support my views, but it certainly does not support yours or James K's and I suspect is a better reflection of the truth.

Just in case you don't understand my position, I think it's pretty much the same north or south of the border.

207

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 10/07/2007 15:30:51

No 74

It s not the end result that you are looking at. It is you voted the wrong candidates in the first place.

The lid of the liers come out then we cry foul. The truth is and will stay. IRAQ war was not in the Agenda of England or Scotland call this what you may. You made error.
Now all the comments are useless. Your hands are tainted all Iraqis blood. Can you stop this now. The arrow is out from the bow and cannot be called back. Afganistan has the same fate. You are the responsible ones.
The only soluton is to remove the oozy blood stains from the hands is to back the new cabinat and get out of the places that do not need you. Oil is not everything in life. Yes it is neccesary but when the cost of blood is measured with this, I think the Britsh FAILED, all CAPITAL, The monarchy or the psedo democarcy or what you may. These are lies. Never heard off.

208

Help Ma Boab,

Happy Hippie Land 10/07/2007 15:31:16

#225 CB - ok, it is wrong from what i have seen, way wrong, but maybe i was lucky and my mates here extremely unlucky (i never got a brick over my head down south, my english mate here did, for having an english accent, thankfully the Scottish idiot who threw it seriously regretted it afterwards). However,I will agree to agree on "the same north and south". so, from that basis can we stop all the anti-English/Superior Scottish cra*p and realise that most of us are pretty much the same, wi funny accents, and there are a minority of goons who give us all a bad name.

209

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 10/07/2007 15:33:24

Later, Campbell writes of another visit by Mr Blair: "Scotland, as ever, was a disaster waiting to happen."

He blames The Scotsman for hijacking Mr Blair on a story about his devolution policies, when during an interview Mr Blair compares the powers he wants to give to the proposed Scottish Parliament to those of a parish council.

You see I put this back again. Mr. Blaire was fooling with Scotland. Bang this is the story.

210

Houssine,

Paris.Fr 10/07/2007 15:39:14

Scotalnd it's not an independant stat for this reason we can't call TB is a scotish or not.When Scotland will be an Independant stat at this moment any person who choose the Scotland nationality will be Scottish.For my opinion the person who can call his self scottish is only the person who speak fluently Scottish Gaelic,the others who can't speak gaelic was becoming english in the mind, the name of this process was known the evolution devlopped by Darwin,when the angles and saxon invaded Brittain in the 6/7 c,one part of ancients habitants have migrated to Brittany,the others in the Higs-lands and the last who was a vulnerable part was assimilated by engles and saxon and have losted the celtic soul for english mind.
You can see my pictur at
www.bretons-de-rueil.com/images/lesneven_mars2007/DSC0087...

and you can send me your comments directly in my boxe needjar@yahoo.fr

211

maxi,

10/07/2007 15:50:27

205.well, one was a waiter in a restaurant,who asked if we had electric,and the other was a southern friend, of my friend,who wanted to know if we all wore flat caps!

212

christopher,

10/07/2007 15:57:25

at the end of the day you can't please everyone all the time, it is never going to happen, however anyone in TB's position should do what is best for the country.......... he has made the UK a more dangerous place thanks to the terror stuff, funny how this is going on now with the middle east yet it never happened with northern ireland...... maybe something to do with the fact there is no oil in NI eh!!! on that note i would like to point at the report that was done in the 70's, i can't remember the name of it exactly but i am sure a few of you on here do........... this report was hidden from view for years which, if published, would have given every scot a view of what exactly was going on. why have we been told lies about this for so many years? why have we had evidence of considerable wealth for scotland hidden from view for so long? i'll tell you............ the UK as it is could not operate without the money coming from our oil fields. there are new innovative methods of extraction making the smaller fields attractive for drilling...... all this in scotlands waters..... we will not rely on the free market we will have substantial deposits to look after ourselves in years to come, with the correct management of our 'oil fund' proposed by the SNP we would have and i quote from the report mentioned above 'one of the hardest economies in europe'. now why would the english be happy with that? they wouldn't be as their taxes would go through the roof while we scots would enjoy the benefits of lower taxes and in general a better life style. i am sorry to say but the english press have a wee chip on their shoulder too...... england this and england that......... it never fails to amaze me why people wonder why the scots don't like them. i work with people from all walks of life, from manchester to birmingham to london and i can safely say the southern half (at the point of cut off per head of population) has a serious issue with their northern brother

213

FelixNera,

10/07/2007 15:57:35

#36 Yup you are a fud

214

big d,

Glasgow 10/07/2007 15:59:09

This entire thread appears to be one long rhetorical circle, like so many threads on so many papers recently.

People whingeing about how other people are whingers, followed by those accused of whingeing whingeing that the people accusing them of whingeing are whingers.

You're all bl**dy whingers, wherever you live, and so am I - English, Scottish or Azerbaijani, you wouldn't be posting on a forum if you weren't a bl**dy whinger. Stop behaving like three year olds will you, relax and just whinge about things, don't whinge about whingeing, that's just a boring rhetorical downward spiral.

215

maxi,

10/07/2007 16:05:09

236.LOL!

216

maxi,

10/07/2007 16:11:15

234. stop it please, you are so bl--dy sanctimoneous!

217

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 16:16:20

#229

Salud dit M. Houssine. Mont 'ra mat ganit?

Est-ce-que la meme pour les Bretons qui parle seulement Francais?

218

cataibh,

Ach yur seen it 10/07/2007 16:18:08

Look its quite simple the unionists and their London based parties do not like the Scots.

219

christopher,

10/07/2007 16:18:46

easy there maxi, don't burst a blood vessel, every one is entitled to their opinion. shush now and go to bed for a long sleep, you'll feel better in the morning!

220

Houssine,

Paris.Fr 10/07/2007 16:19:59

Salud'it autrou Doughnuts,penaos eo ar bed ganit.Me zo vont mad.Gomz a rit brezouneg?

221

christopher,

10/07/2007 16:20:56

Sanctimonious.......... i will take your chat if you learn ENGLISH and spell the word properly.

222

Publius,

London 10/07/2007 16:21:38

#229 Houssine. You must be related to a French lectrice I met a few months ago in London. I suggested she visit Edinburgh. She said she wouldn't go to Scotland because Scots spoke Gaelic and she didn't speak Gaelic, only French, English and Italian. You need to know that the Angles came to Britain in the 5th and 6th centuries. The acute went north and the obtuse went south.

223

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 16:26:41

Mat-tre, trugarez M. Houssine. Ne gomzan ket brezhoneg mat. Gallout a ran kompren Gaelic!

Aussi, je visite Quimper pour les Celtic Film et TV Fest.

225

Pete,

Paisley 10/07/2007 16:32:04

Methalions # 233

Not a whinge, a statement of fact. Alec Salmond is where he is as FM because of his black propagdnga, propagnds, propaganda and general running down of the "Scottish experience."
Isn't it paradoxical though, that Alec Salmond has enriched himself by portraying Scottish people as downtrodden and poverty stricken?

226

Jay Kay,

Dunfermline 10/07/2007 16:33:27

#234 I agree pity there arn't more that do.

227

rothay,

England 10/07/2007 16:35:14

If you are going to have a good old whinge you couldn't find anybody better to whinge at than these two who seem to be seriously deranged themselves. When Campbell was launching his money spinner did anybody notice that more British troops were dying in Labour's overseas wars?

It's interesting that the only people who seem to be desperate to keep the Union in its present form are Scots politicians at Westminster.

I have taken Gordon Brown's advice and I am going to fly the flag - the English flag - at half mast until we regain our independence.

228

Pete,

Paisley 10/07/2007 16:38:02

Houssine # 249

What have a load of pictures from a French lunatic asylum got to do with Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell?

229

Pete,

Paisley 10/07/2007 16:40:50

http://www.meatmatters.com/images/cookingtips/Mince.jpg

I hear Alex Salmond has given up eating mince recently. When there's sirloin at home...

230

Houssine,

Paris.Fr 10/07/2007 16:43:32

www.bretons-de-rueil.com/images/lesneven_mars2007/DSC0086...

www.bretons-de-rueil.com/images/plouha/telegramme.jpg


What i want to call is the poepls of Scotland need the independance immediatly ,we don't hat anyone,TB is only an oportunist like GWB,these personage was nothing for human destiny and Scotland history.My hoop is to see the poepls of Scotland life in independance and reconquier the Gaelic language,soul and mind.Angles,Saxon ,Germains or French is all the sames descendants and same civilisation i respect like ethnologyst all civilisation in the world,arabs,jews,tutsy,hutu...what i call for english poepls to respect the fundamental right of the independance of Scotland.I don't want to see a cripation or a war for the scotland independance, for my position i don't have a job and i have healt problem and i can't see a doctor.If they are only one veritabl scotish can help me that is good for me.The God save scotland and protect him against a beliquous english .

231

Pete,

Paisley 10/07/2007 16:46:26

Methalions # 256

The following photograph was submitted by Alec Salmond http://www.outhousegraffiti.com/Crap1.jpg who passed his thanks to the Scottish people who are, kindly, providing him with sirloin steak and large pension rights for the foreseeable future.

232

ThePeter,

Glasgae 10/07/2007 16:50:26

For the fisrt time ever I actually agree with Tony and Al..

We are a bunch of whiners

233

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 16:52:48

Nein doch, kac'her!

Sheesh methalions, did you lay that cable yourself?

234

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 16:52:55

#260 Houssine. Are you the actor that played the copper in Hallo Hallo. You have the same accent as him.

235

Fenland Farmer,

Cromwell's England 10/07/2007 16:55:35

Campbell's aim is to "spin" his book and make money. I tend to believe that he enjoy's the buzz of causing trouble between decent folk. I see from the Sky News cover of his "book" that amongst other things in his view Lady Di had a "crush" on him! It does not matter if he is a Scot or is English. He is (and his like ) are wordsmith's who will be unable to lay straight in bed at night!
At the moment it seems that such "advisor's" have been thrown out of Downing Street. REALLY like the name Zippy for the former First Lady!

236

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 17:08:05

Maltese Budgy, are you Joel Cairo or Kasper Gutman?

237

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 17:12:12

I once had a French Maid and language was'nt a problem as it was'nt necessary. Before you ask Methalions; no my wife did not know. Ooh la la.

238

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 17:13:10

Whats your problem doughnut?

239

TOMMY FROM BROOKLYN,

Brooklyn New York USA 10/07/2007 17:28:40

ATTENTION: ALISTER CAMPBELL "NUT CASE" :-
______________________________________
I see the "CAMPBELL has written a book about his time with Blair and the Labour Party, he was kick out of his government job by Labour now no one wants his services so he has written some stupid book, anyone who buys his book wants there head examined, I am sured it is filled with a bunch of rubbish that no one cares about.

240

MT,

10/07/2007 17:40:48

I was born in Scotland to Scottish Parents and dont have any foreign ancestory to my knowledge.
Although I left Scotland at the age of 9 I knew very well of where I was from then, and to this very day.
I was born a Scotsman and intend to die as one.

241

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 17:51:49

#275 Methalions. You really are waffling so I guess it must be a slow news day.

242

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 18:03:36

John McEnroe was born in Germany. Franz Beckenbauer was born in Ireland. I'm not suggesting Tony Blair comes into the same category as those two but I would say that where you are born is an accident of birth (unless you are, for example, Denis Law's children).

My Uncle was born in Dundee but never said he was from there and that is what counts.

243

Broddr,

10/07/2007 18:04:50

I used to like Scotland - until I moved here

I used to like Scots - until I moved here

If Scotland were playing anyone but England in the football I would support them (and the Welsh and Irish) - until I moved here

I lived the first 20 years of my life in England, the last ten in Scotland. All my family is English, most of my friends are English.

The racism and bigotry in Scotland, especially to the English, is unbelievable.

Everyone in this damn country hates me because I happen to have been born 200 miles south of a line drawn on a map and for no other reason.

I used to call myself British until I came to live in Scotland, now I am fiercely English.

I know what you all are gonna say "Why don't you bog off back to your own country then?"

I'd love too. I would be gone tomorrow if I could, the fact is I am stuck here. I moved to Scotland for a job which has since disappeared and I had a belief that Scotland would be a lovely place to live having visited a few times.

How wrong I was!

90% of Scots have a huge "blame everyone but ourselves" attitude and a massive shoulder chip.

The whole relgious thing here doesn't need mentioning.

"Rangers of Celtic?"
"Neither"
"You gotta be one or the other"

No one I know in England cares if Scotland are independant or not. No one I know in England has any bad views on Scotland or the Scots.

What the press or the politicians have got to say about it has no reflection on the average English persons views. Yet the Scots think the English are stealing their stuff.

This Braveheart Freedom crap is so childish.

Most Scots know jack about their own history and get their knowledge about influential Scotish figures from Hollywood.

"It's no fair, English bawheeds steelin our oil"

Tell you what, once Scotland has independance you can start lobbying for splitting Scotl

244

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 18:10:54

I could exaggerate the statement I made in 278 by stating that centralisation of hospital services has been been leading to more and more babies being born outwith where they come from.

Unless things change, who knows?, we might all be born in England.

245

C'Mon Ye Bairns !!!,

Falkirk/Boston 10/07/2007 18:12:11

I love to read these bulletins - moan, fuc4in moan!

and seen as it's a Scottish paper, and most of the posters' are Scottish or are interested in Scotland, then it's fair to say that we like to moan...

it's obvious...

to me, like #25 - if Scotland (not England or Britain) went to war, then i'd be there to defend it!!!

I think that's what makes you a Scot?

Correct me...

246

connaughtboy,

10/07/2007 18:17:08

#279

I disagree with almost everything in your post!

247

Miss Jean Brodie,

10/07/2007 18:20:35

Since the Scots and The Bloomin’ Romans - especially that Agricola and his mob arrived in Pictland - there has been nothing but bloody trouble - here we go again !

Picts assemble at Brodie Castle for the new rising !

Free Pictland !

248

Ayrborn,

10 Downing Street 10/07/2007 18:33:37

Who is this Tony Blair bloke? GB

249

Michael Murray,

Dallas, TX 10/07/2007 18:33:38

I plead ignorance here, forgive me. Some slang is over my head. What is a "Whingeing Jock"? What is "whingeing", anyway? Again, I apologize. And by the way, Texas is not quite as conservative or pro-Bush as you might think. We can't stand that idiotic criminal any more than you can. I'm longing for the the next election in 2008, but I fear the Democratic Party does not have a strong enough candidate for the presidency. God help us!

250

Pilrig,

Livingston 10/07/2007 18:45:21

19 - point well made, but you might have acknowledged the creator of the witticism - P.G. Wodehouse

251

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 18:45:34

We got sunlight on the sand
We got moonlight by the sea
We got men goin', like, bananas
From the Borders to Dundee

We've had a barrel full of spin pong
And all yer dandy games

What aint we got?
We aint got hame.

There is nothing like a hame
Nothing in the world
There is nothing you name
That is anything like your hame

With apologies to Rogers and Lavignerestein (Sorry Avril)

This one's for 282

252

Guga II,

Rockall 10/07/2007 18:46:40

#219 There are actually three types of people in the world:

- Those that are Scottish
- Those that would like to be, and
- Those that have no ambition.

I seem to have upset a few of the foreigners that seem to feel the need to post on an essentially Scottish newspaper, as well as a few of the Unionist numpties. Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

Saor Alba.

253

Miss Jean Brodie,

10/07/2007 18:49:08

#286 Whingeing means always grumbling or complaining - hey - do you only have 2 parties to vote for in the USA - what kinda choice is that near enuff none at all. Sheesh - You folks oot there - nae democracy I see. Left, Right? - Coke, Pepsi? Wranglers, Levi’s?

254

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 18:58:47

290, Guga.

"Foreigners"? Could you not try to accept the mind broadening input from those who share the World Wide Web with you?

These threads are from a dot com website and not a dot.guga

255

LOWLANDER,

SCOTLAND 10/07/2007 19:02:11

*279* if its that bad in SCOTLAND go back over the border.

256

Harryc,

10/07/2007 19:08:50

Only a shortage of finances prevents me from getting away from this land of village idiots. I shouldn't worry tho, I will consider myself a Brit till I die which will be some years yet, whereas you guys merely live in a tartan, whisky and shortbread fairy land, sad sad sad!

257

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 19:14:15

Harry C -Is that Harry Carey? - I feel sorry for you (he lied). Fair enough? Britishness brought about the shortbread tin. You are in a no-win situation.

258

Micropacer,

Inverness 10/07/2007 19:15:32

#279 Well done - I think you have managed the most racist bigoted post of the day!

I think congrats are in order!

//90% of Scots have a huge "blame everyone but ourselves" attitude and a massive shoulder chip.//

I assume you have met all 4.5 million Scots and drawn these conculsions from that?

I have many English friends up here and none suffer any anti-English sentiment except football.

Could it possibly be you are just not a nice person and maybe not many people like you? It certainly appears more than your Nationality thats the problem.

This made me laugh out loud "I know what you all are gonna say "Why don't you bog off back to your own country then?"

I'd love too. I would be gone tomorrow if I could, the fact is I am stuck here. I moved to Scotland for a job which has since disappeared and I had a belief that Scotland would be a lovely place to live having visited a few times."


So are you so unemployable that in the whole of England there isnt a job you can get?

Bitter would proabably sum you and your post up quiet nicely. Maybe you live in a bad area - theres plently of Scotland I dont like but I live in the Highlands and wouldnt move anywhere else.

259

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 19:17:33

'Franz Beckenbauer was born in the post-war ruins of Munich, the second son of postal-worker Franz Beckenbauer senior and his wife Antonie. He grew up in the working-class district of Giesing'

Sure you're not thinking of Francie O'Battenburg from Inisheer, Mr Tamson?

260

David MacVicar,

web 10/07/2007 19:23:57

279. Broddr. What a sad post.

You moved to Scotland after visiting it a few times.

I guess you didnt get racially abused during those visits then? Must have just been lucky I guess?

The only aspect I would agree with is that Bigotry is a big problem in Scotland. Any anti English element is Scotland is far outweighed by elements of the celtic verses rangers idiots, one lot proudly british, the other proudly waving an Irish flag and both damaging Scottish identity, culture and tolerance fairly equally.

However these groups are fairly fixed to the central belt and parts of the west coast.


As for the rest. You criticise, in error and with no justification whatsoever, that to want independence means you got the idea somehow from Braveheart and Hollywood etc. However your post clearly shows that you came to Scotland with no real idea of what to expect, with the naive idea that we were all one big happy British family with Scots as some quaint tartan part of it. Must have been some wakeup call!

You suddenly discovered Scotland (previously known as Jockland) is still a country in its own right hence the border you call "a line drawn on the map". Other countries have similar lines eg Belgium/France, Norway/Sweden. The line is there for a reason, often disputed but well thats another story.
The desire to be a sovereign state is far from 'childish' it is the normal structure of any country. Frankly I am not surprised that you have few Scottish friends after 10 years as it appears you have a very poor view of most Scots.

As to stuck here - why is that? Are you prevented from applying for jobs in England? In what way were you not stuck in England to get a job in Scotland that you cant now do in reverse? Do you have an English hating Scottish postman blocking all your job applications? ;)

Conclusion: Maybe its your attitude that is 90% wrong bringing out the worst in the people you meet?

261

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 19:25:36

297. No. Unless wikipedia has changed his history sinse the 1970's when he was the son of a diplomat in Dublin.

262

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 19:28:49
263

David MacVicar,

web 10/07/2007 19:29:17

296. Micropacer, I was typing my reply as you posted yours, obviously we must have had similar thoughts.

We must be a couple of racists then!

265

maxi,

10/07/2007 19:32:42

279. well said, I hope you fined your way in life, and don't let these bigots get you down!

266

another scot canada,

Montreal/another fly Fifer frae the kingdom 10/07/2007 19:34:23

#286 #921 whined, whin·ing, whines
this is from my dictionary
another transplanted scot this is to all
I read your comments every day and enjoy them
but sometimes YOU BLETHER A LOT OF S***E

267

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 19:44:47

Doughnuts like fannies. I accept what you are posting. History must have changed as, in the 70's, he was accredited as having been born in Ireland from diplomat parents.

268

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 19:48:12

Now then, Doenitz yo fanny. Having checked out every word I've posted, is that all you can come up with?

269

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 19:50:15

Maxi apart from your love of the Scotsman with three Christian names, is there anything about Scotland you actually like?

270

Jings Crivens,

Paisley 10/07/2007 19:52:25

279 Broddr

While I feel that perhaps your experiences have tainted you against Scotland, you do made many good points about the Scots. I have too many similar stories from my English friends to doubt you.

If Scotland wants to move forward into the 21st Century its time to stop looking back to events that happened several hundred years ago.

271

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 19:55:33

Err Tamson, yer statement stuck oot like a sair knob at a porn star convention. I've no interest in anything else you say and that's Admiral Doenitz ya dumkopf.

272

Jings Crivens,

Paisley 10/07/2007 19:56:05

298 David MacVicar

Its obvious that you don't understand how expensive it is to move house. Perhaps instead of just telling someone to get out maybe it time to stop this nationalistic insecurity and bring the strengths of the UK together.

273

Jings Crivens,

Paisley 10/07/2007 20:01:11

#219 A Wallace Fan from Canada
#290 Guga II, Rockall

Sorry there is only one type of people in the world - Humans

274

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 20:01:21

Bit odd naming your daughter after the precursor of the Austin Princess.

275

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 20:01:44

Doenitz. A'm a retired hetero so ma knob's no sair.

Sorry (the Scottish cringe) if it made your's feel that way

276

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 20:02:58

No hard feelings?

277

Pomodora,

Gravesend,Kent 10/07/2007 20:06:39

Many of my friends and associates were born in Scotland. There is good natured banter between us as there is with others who claim other lands as their birthplaces. I am fortunate to hold a position in a commercial business where international trade and globalization is the engine driving our success. A Scottish co-worker, also a strong advocate of his national culture, flies the shuttle to Glasgow most week-ends to spend time with his family and friends and on his return regale's us with witticisms. On these week-end excursion,he finds it amusing when he is asked the question, "How do you get along with the English?", and not in low-class pubs either, with the same serious vein as asking about the pigmies in some obscure land. After one such visit he returned to the office wearing a home-made kilt and with his face painted blue remarking that he had to rush to make the flight down from Glasgow and didn't have time to change. He gets along with the natives down here just fine and he cares less whether Tony Blair is Scots, English or Martian as most inteligent people will tell. He jokes that to tell a true Scot, drop a coin in a crowd and those who bend to tie their shoe-laces are the real defenders of the faith.

278

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 20:07:46

Latest question from the home office - are you from where you are from?

279

Jings Crivens,

Paisley 10/07/2007 20:09:55

310 Allan Christie

If you commenting on Scottish names Allan could have Scottish, German or Irish origins but what that got to do this story

280

Pilrig,

Livingston 10/07/2007 20:26:55

279 - well that's us ignorant aborigine jocks telt and put in oor place !
Oh and you DONT have to support either half of rantic, especially when you can support the 2007 Scottish League Cup winners.

281

Doughnuts like Fannys.,

10/07/2007 20:28:26

#315 Jings I hope not!

Methalions this moderation lark, it's a wee bit odd.

I (sorry that should read) a good friend, received a personal email from 'The Editor' in which the cove stated that err he was up for 'premoderation for a mild transgression.' I believe he used a derogatory term for one of the boards more verbose users...

282

Pilrig,

Livingston 10/07/2007 20:32:36

295 - nope, Harry C stands for Harry Cari or alternatively Harry Crishna.

Maybe we can have a whip-roond to buy Harry a one-way ticket to Kings Cross of Euston ?

283

Pilrig,

Livingston 10/07/2007 20:34:54

299 - just think, Beckenbauer could have played alongside the likes of Tony Cascorino or Mick McCarthy

284

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 20:35:28

322. Crivvens, me too

285

Pilrig,

Livingston 10/07/2007 20:37:35

308 - Scottish history to be abolished - you arnie Peter Peacock by the way ?

286

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/07/2007 20:52:02

If I may return to the original thread an relate it to previous posts (yes. I know I have made a few)

We could link Tony's undoubted peerage to where he is from by naming him Lord Blairasshole

287

Jim P,

10/07/2007 21:15:32

#279 Broddr

"Everyone in this damn country hates me because I happen to have been born 200 miles south of a line drawn on a map and for no other reason."

You can't tell me that you don't get some of the same reaction from the:
Welsh
Irish
French
Germans
Australians
...err, onybody ken ony mair countries?

Take a luk in the mirro, boyo!

288

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 21:31:17

So now we all know, Methalions alter ego is Gertrude the Lovely and that they inanely waffle amongst themselfs.

289

France,

In my bunker, in the UK, hiding from WMDs. 10/07/2007 22:15:18

So now we know the truth. Tony's not George Bush's poodle afterall, but his West Highland Terrier!!

290

Allan Murray,

merseyside 10/07/2007 22:30:59

In away am not surprise A Campbell and T Blair have called Scottish journelist whinging jocks. Mainly due to the fact that they themselves are whinging jocks.
But really what do the Scottsih have to whinge about ?
You get far more out of the union than any other nation that is a fact. Since having a Scottish parliament you get lot of things for free.
some claim the English prevent you from going independent. Grow up how are the English doing that it is only the Scottish voters doing that as it is only them that can vote for independence. So you need to either face the fact they you are to scared to go independent or that you dont want independence at all.
When asked the English would you want the Scottish to go for independence about 67% said they would so dont say we are preventing you from leaving because we are not.
Trouble with alot of Scots is it is easier for you to blame England for all your problems, because it saves you having to take along hard look at yourselves, and seeing that it is you guys that have caused your own problems.
And the English are not to blame for what ever it is you lot are whinging about at the minute.
Fact is Labour is run by Scottish mp's the war in Iraq was brought about by a Scot. Pensions stolen by a Scot. Trident forced on you by a Scot.
Yes Labour has ruined this country in the last 10yrs but it was a Scot and his mainly Scottish cabinet that did it.
Am really glad my ancestry comes from Ireland cause i would hate it if i had ti whinge like you guys all the time.

291

MJG,

Ex-pat Scot, USA 10/07/2007 22:32:19

Tony is spot-on - we Scots are a bunch of whinging gits. We are always looking for someone else to blame for our troubles. Sad thing is, we are a hardy, ingenious bunch - wha's like us?!? If we lost the chip on our collective shoulder, we could rule the world.

292

The Maltese Falcon,

Malta 10/07/2007 22:42:05

340 Allan Murray. You are absolutely correct in your assertion that more English people than Scots people would vote for independence for Scotland. What the Nats who post on these threads seem not to understand is that the vast majority of the electorate in Scotland are doing well within the Union and thats how they want it to remain. The minority radicals should discard their rose tinted spectacles.

293

Bobik,

Edinburgh 10/07/2007 22:55:27

I see that even now the Scotsman can't admit that it's "parish council" story was little better than a lie. "Compare" is a weasel word. I can compare a mountain to a molehill, but I don't say that one is the other. The quote from Blair was taken entirely out of context -

"Mr Blair was ruling out the use of the tax-varying powers but defended them, saying that "once the power is given it's like the smallest English parish council, it's got the right to exercise it."

In other words, any body that is given a power has the right to use it - even a small body such as a parish council can do so, so the Scottish Parliament certainly can.

The Scotsman had and, to some extent still has, an agenda to undermine Scotland and home rule, so it pretended that Blair had said that the Scottish Parliament would be nothing more than a parish council.

294

albanoch,

Kyoto Japan 10/07/2007 23:20:21

31 Jay kay. Couldn't have said it better myself...
Exactly...and absolutely correct.
Three Cheers for Jay kay!

295

Virgil,

Vancouver,BC 10/07/2007 23:47:16

#344 above, reding your post prompted me to scale back to #31 to read this great oracle of wisdom for which you offer three cheers. Tut, Tut,
please read it again. It offers all the reasons for the parochial minnions to wave the flag and imbide in frozen history, it is smug, self asserting and without substance.
Please read #316, Pomodora from Kent, the nom de plume' indicates a female, who in her posing has portrayed the values of her co-worker as a real Scot and more important, a good human being. Her illustration of his behaviour indicates her can laugh at himself, he can assimilate in another country with oher exiles and natives and be productive and contribute to society.
#344..do hold your cheers on #31 and offer them to #316. Truly agreat Scot.

296

Lauwrie,

10/07/2007 23:48:32

What a sad thread .

So much emotion against the terrible English for everything bad in the world including the weather .

England and Scotland appear now to living on different planets .

A key point here is that the English are much more in favour of Scottish independence ,
if that is what they want
than the Scots .

Surveys show 65% of the English , as against about 30% of the Scots in favour of Scottish , and therefore English , independence .

It is only Scotland that is holding back Scottish independence , no one in England would want to interfere.
So come on Scots . Stop griping .

Get to grips with this central fact .
Recognise it and act on it .

297

Virgil,

Vancouver,BC 10/07/2007 23:49:40

Correction on #345.TO READ "he" can laugh at himself.

298

Fran,

GA , USA 11/07/2007 01:17:40

I sure wish I knew what a whinger is .

299

Suck-McCrunchie,

Doomster Hill 11/07/2007 02:04:17

Hope you do well in the middle east Tone.

Here's hoping Bush can join you in an orange boiler suit.

300

maxi,

11/07/2007 07:17:24

307.The only thing about scotland that I don't like,is the way england is blamed for everything, even when for the last 10 years scots have ran this country,and are still doing so!

301

Evan Owen,

Welsh Wales 11/07/2007 07:34:28

I blame the English for making the Scots so angry over the centuries that they then got even by taking over Parliament.

A 'cunning plan' indeed.

Trouble is the rest of us have to suffer 'collateral damage'.

302

maxi,

11/07/2007 07:38:36

351. How the bl--dy hell did we do that?

303

Dave in Toronto,

Canada 11/07/2007 08:13:39

Someone has already mentioned the "Does a man born in a stable become a horse?" made by the Dublin born Duke of Wellington who hated to be called Irish. I said to an Irish friend that I was rather surprised that there was still a memorial to the Duke in a Dublin park he replied "Well the feeling is that he was one of us whether he wanted to be or not".

304

,

11/07/2007 08:38:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
305

molu kikes,

basel 11/07/2007 09:08:21

after leaving the downing street number 10 the wobbled tantalising blair had adinner with his next of his kin mr brown , as the secretary describe luncheon cracks between them as the whingeing jokes ,. well the topic on dinner was over the medieval styles of being both scottish as other disarproving him as ultra english , well as we see in blair phase of his administration was parsimoniuos policy as far as scotts are concerned , he do have face many critisim that had sapped blair confidence in his regime ,targeted by the scotts yard in many epitah of his series but very approving blair has escape the escapology that are already occured and in the books ,actually the adrenalin ebbing scott have made blair less vallian by repelling to his decision body ,.also coming to the country kick teeth he was the man behind the big brother on scott watch line ,. on various essay of betting news through radio four just only to waned his portfolio by the stargate , absolutely the so called mr blair which was named as newcastle of england do only fear the scott but know well in acquitance on how to deal with the emerald affairs

306

maxi,

11/07/2007 15:01:05

348. whinger=moaner,complains all the time,usually about nothing of importance.

307

Alan, New Zealand,

Palmerston north 11/07/2007 18:58:26

Here's another moan,
Will PM Brown wait until Mr Bush says its OK to leave Iraq, or will he make a decision now?

308

democracy,

Scottish Borders 11/07/2007 20:24:56

This story is well behind the times, c'mon get up to speed !! it's the whinging Angles now, "its not fair, Scots get more of our money than we do ....boohoo!!
...sobsob!! (dummy on ground beside pram.)


 

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