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20 years on, families still fight for the truth of Tiananmen

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Published Date: 30 May 2009
IT HAS been 20 years since Jiang Jielian, a carefree youth of 17, ignored his mother's pleas and rode his bicycle to join friends among massive numbers of student demonstrators in Tiananmen Square, Beijing.
His death in the early hours of 4 June, 1989 – from a bullet that entered his back and pierced his heart – would change his mother forever, turning a mild-mannered university professor loyal to the Communist Party into a heartbroken, angry parent pressing for answers.

Ding Zilin, now 72 and frail, has withstood two decades of arrests, interrogations and constant surveillance. Even today, she remains under effective house arrest as she continues her fight for the truth about the military crackdown and killing of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of students on 4 June, 1989.

"Their bloody deaths should be returned by justice, not a life for a life. No matter what we do, our children will not come back," she told The Scotsman in an interview conducted a month before the anniversary, necessary to avoid the government clampdown that comes before every sensitive occasion.

Twenty years after Tiananmen, the government still quashes all discussion of that day. Officials maintain the demonstrators had created a "counter-revolutionary riot", therefore justifying the soldiers' actions. Any mention of the incident in state media is forbidden and no credible number of those killed has been released.

Yet a quiet but resolute struggle by survivors and the families of the dead and injured for answers continues.

"I don't know why they are so worried about us – we are widows and families who are old, sick and weak. It is impossible we would be a threat to national security. We just want justice," Ms Ding said, referring to the Tiananmen Mothers' network she has helped organise.

"We want the government to declare how many people were killed on 4 June. We want to know who died. And after that we want compensation for the people who were killed."

Their efforts have produced a list of those killed – 195 names, the most recent discovered only in the past few months – and annual letters to the government reiterating their demands. This week, a new letter was signed by 128 family members.

"What was once the truth that couldn't be clearer has become so blurred as to be almost turned upside down. Utilitarianism and pragmatism have replaced the idealism and passion of former days. China is not getting closer to freedom, democracy and human rights, but drifting farther away," the letter reads.

Today's students were babies in 1989. Too young to remember, they have been shielded from the truth by a government that doesn't want them to know and families afraid they will suffer from political involvement. It's a generation Ms Ding fears is more interested in good jobs and designer clothes than in the political changes her son fought for.

"Young people do not know the truth. They think the 1989 incident was not necessary."

The events of 4 June are not discussed openly at universities on the mainland. However, earlier this year students at the University of Hong Kong – who, unlike their northern neighbours, are able to debate such issues – voted 93 per cent in favour of calling on the Chinese government to be held accountable for the Tiananmen crackdown.

About 10 per cent of that university's students are from the mainland, and their debate was as loud as that among Hong Kong students.

"Even though they can't access everything, many know the truth. You cannot cover the truth forever," said Martin Kok, of the students' union.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 29 May 2009 9:52 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 00:58:42
It's been 20 years, time to move on, those that died ain't coming back and no matter what people do, that fact will remain.

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2

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 01:49:38
Posters, this week the western media will just saturate their pages with these kinds of stories. It's their one big chance to push their propaganda. They will do their best to stir up emotions, talking to mothers who lost their children, or rioters who ended up in prison. I wonder if they will talk to any of the blue collar workers who torched buildings and attacked security forces. I guess not. I guess they won't be talking to the CIA or those in HOng Kong who were pouring money into the "democracy" movements. No, of course they won't talk to any of the troops who were there, or the journalists who were there and lied about the facts. No no no, they'll just focus on the wizened old ladies who "want the truth". They just want their version of the truth, the one that kicks the government and China and its people the hardest.
3

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 02:29:30
Hey Mashi,
Oh I know the onslaught is coming alright, and you and I will get personally attacked for our "CALLOUSED" views, but them's the breaks, ain't it?

On that article about the ancient trade routes getting a makeover, here's my research and opinion on that.

http://news.scotsman.com/world/China---demolishing-ancient.5314266.jp#4076232

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4

GibsonAustralia,

Sydney 30/05/2009 04:23:17
An article in todays Sydney Morning Herald ('Seven weeks that shook the world' by John Garnaut) suggested that Beijing was beginning to see the light of their sin for that horrible day in Tainanmen Square all of those years ago when the flower of Chinas youth got crushed under the tanks... or shot just outside of the camera lens'.
Hah!
China has always had a plan and it always involved the Anglos.
There will be no repentence of the old dragon for her sin.
She may appear to come to the West with weeping and heavy heart but she will never stop building her great armies for the great day of the outward movement.
5

GibsonAustralia,

Sydney 30/05/2009 04:24:24
Hah!
6

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 04:25:32
And the onslaught begins !

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7

GibsonAustralia,

Sydney 30/05/2009 04:25:36
Double Hah!
8

GibsonAustralia,

Sydney 30/05/2009 04:28:31
Dont you care Postie old fellow...that you live under such an evil government?
God would be very pleased if you stood apart from it.
9

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 04:33:50
Hey Gibson,
Please go back to the link I provided at post #3, it explains everything to you at post #17 in that article, it will turn your lights on so that you may see more clearly.

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10

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 04:46:43
Posters, just let the wave crash upon the shore man. These people don't want the truth. They've bought into the fantasy and like to think they have an "opinion" on it and that their "opinion" actually matters.
11

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 05:22:58
I know Mashi but at the same time I like to have some fun too, my time is always so limited here as all here know, so I try to get the most bang for my buck, whether it be through legit comments or some good natured ribbing.



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12

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 05:39:57
Are the fishing boats back? I don't think so
13

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 05:50:13
Apparently the fish left first, they know what's up, the fishermen just followed suit;-)))))))

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14

Jim A,

30/05/2009 06:01:08
Posty, "It's been 20 years, time to move on, those that died ain't coming back and no matter what people do, that fact will remain".

Easy to say mate when it ain't your kid.
15

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 06:09:40
#14 Jim A,
My kid's an innocent 4 month old, those 'kids' knew what they were doing, had been warned but went ahead and did it anyways, I hope you can see the difference Jim. They were there by choice Jim, no one forced them at gunpoint to go, they went because they thought it was cool to do so, they didn't even know why they were there, it was just a thing to do, and it's like that with all mob mentality, don't ask us why we are here, just stay out of our way.

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16

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 06:10:22
Jim, so what do they want? I'll tell you - money. Their kids went off and wreaked havoc and now they want the government to cough up. Not because it really makes a jot of difference to them, but because someone has told them that there's free money to be had. And we all know how Chinese folks LOVE money money money.
Who pays for the soldiers that died in that time eh?
17

GibsonAustralia,

Sydney 30/05/2009 06:11:20
I read the link young postman55.
We know you are widening the roads out of China.
You built a road across the Himalayas and everyone thinks the new railway line into Tibet is about commerce and tourists.
Its REALLY about getting your soldiers to a rail head in Tibet, to get them onto trucks, to get them out to the westwards.
Visions from The Lord show China entering northern India and eating all of the Indians, and then over into Iran and Iraq and into the Middle East and eating everyone there, and moving down into south east asia and eating everyone there, and entering northern Australia and eating all of the northern Australians...until our wonderful resistance finally stops the PLA (movie stars).
Later with Gods Help we kick them out and they run home.
The christians already know about China...the Kings Of The East.
God is real postie.
WE didnt invent Him...He Created us.
He still Speaks to people today.
Sometimes about China.
If you know any secrets please help us and click on Defenselink and leave your message.
They would be happy to hear from you and Mashi and Dragonhead and anyone else from good old red China.
18

Jim A,

30/05/2009 06:17:06
Posty, I wasn't comparing your Dennis to this, I just said, what you said was easy to say when it's not your own. Posty my concern here is not for the people on the square, like you say they are gone, it's for the parents, Mate no pearent should outlive their kids. Now again, I'm not comparing Dennis here, but if a kid of yours was shot in the back wouldn't you want some answers? I know I would and I'd move heaven and hell to get them.
19

Jim A,

30/05/2009 06:35:57
#16 Mashimaro, "Who pays for the soldiers that died in that time eh?"

Mashi that is a very fair point, but I ask myself, why was it soldiers with tanks that were there, why wasn't it the Police.
20

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 06:37:49
#18 Jim A,
I know you weren't comparing Dennis to them Jim, I used that to drive home my point. That point being that if I warn Dennis to stay away from events like that and he chooses not to listen and he dies for it, yeah man, my heart would be ripped out, but he was warned and he chose not to listen, so how can that be anybody's fault but his own?
Those 'kids' there were not going to stop on their own Jim, look no further than Greece to get my drift on that, or anywhere riots break out, they need to be reeled in one way or another Jim, and even though this came to a violent end, it was the 'kids' that brought that about, they had ample warnings and chose not to heed them, so no, I can not agree with you on that part Jim, parents with broken hearts, yes.


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21

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 06:45:28
Hey Gibson,
Please read post #11 of this article again.
Thanks bud;-))))
22

Jim A,

30/05/2009 06:46:48
#16 Mashi, C'mon guys, main battle tanks to kick some student butt. Bit overkill or what? Where were the Police? Crowd control's their job, isn't it?
23

Jim A,

30/05/2009 06:51:47
#20 Posty, You and I are lucky my old nemisis, I haven't lost a kid and hopefully you haven't either, so can we really know what this lady feels? I say no because it's never happen to us. So who are we to judge her
24

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 06:54:03
Jim it wasn't overkill. They had been warned and warned and warned. They had the chance to go and they didn't. Violence was happening all over the country. The police and army were being attacked. China was on the brink of another revolution. Those in charge made a tough call, to put it down and put it down for good.
Let's remember this thing had dragged on for months. They were given every chance, but chose to ignore it.
25

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 06:54:04
#22 Jim A,
Please refer to this Scotsman article where Mashimaro explained most of what happened, he was pretty thorough on it, and don't mind the obnoxious rantings of Arminius aka James Donald, he has a nasty habit of wishing us 'commies' to death.
http://news.scotsman.com/world/Tiananmen-protest-shootings-attacked-by.5270532.jp

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26

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 06:56:22
oh dear Posty now we have Chinese eating indians - would those be curried or sweet n sour?
Really, we shouldn't encourage him. If he can suck down this kind of rubbish there really is no hope.
27

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 06:57:55
#23 Jim A,
Well Jim, I got a good chance of losing my oldest kid soon, the Canadian military is shipping him off to Afghanistan next year, another useless war brought on by the equally useless American administration, and your kids and my kids are laying down our lives for that, and he HASN'T got a say in the matter, they frown heavily on those who choose to go AWOL.

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28

,

30/05/2009 07:01:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
29

Jim A,

30/05/2009 07:08:27
27 Posty, "and he HASN'T got a say in the matter, they frown heavily on those who choose to go AWOL".

He does have a say actually mate, 1 years notice to terminate service or dishcharge by purchase. The Canuck Army uses the same system as the Brits. The only time a soldier can't do it is when he has received notice for deployment, but he can do it on his return from deployment and if the unit gets another notice to deploy it won't affect him as his papers are in.

Your lads a professional mate, he'll do just fine.
30

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 07:10:32
Hmmm maybe I should continue the breakdown of what happened at tienanman
31

Jim A,

30/05/2009 07:15:10
#24 Mashi, as you said it had been dragging on for months, so in that time they couldn't get enough cops together to end it once and for all? I guess I just can't get my head around the use of Main Battle Tanks against it's own citizens. Hey that's just me guys, big old softy at heart.
32

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 07:16:35
Hold on there Mashi,
I already directed Jim A to the previous article where you explained it all to Mikey, and it's still there for all to see. It's just a click away.

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Tiananmen-protest-shootings-attacked-by.5270532.jp


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33

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 07:20:32
#31 Jim A,
You have to realize Jim that we have more people here any second of the day or night taking a dump than your whole country has people, maybe it's easier to wrap your head around that eh;-))))

As far as my son going to Afghanistan goes, it's a done deal, he's waiting it out now, not much else to do now.


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34

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 07:21:51
Where were we... ah yeah... May 4 By May 4 there were 51 cities where student demonstrations were happening. Oddly enough they were all doing similar things and making similar demands.
Now because it was May 4, we are not surprised by the number of demonstrations, but the similarity caused suspicion. Please remember that this is China, when we say "demonstration" we mean thousands if not tens of thousands of students. Like 7,000 marched in Chongqing. The students called on workers, farmer and entrepreneurs to support them. There was no violence because the students kept order and local authorities had forbidden police to use force.
35

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 07:27:21
Jim... they were fighting pitched battles
36

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 07:29:03
#29 Jim A,
This link will show that Canada up to date has lost 118 of its military members, and I'm relatively sure that they are all professionals, war doesn't discriminate Jim, it encompasses all and claims whomever, I don't like the odds Jim, not one bit.
And my kid is just like me, as stubborn as they come and he throws himself 100% into any situation, that's been bred into him, so again, I don't like his odds.

If you don't believe my stubborness, just look at how many bans I've overcome, and will overcome, that too is bred into me.


http://www.ctv.ca/generic/generated/news/SECasualties.html

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37

Jim A,

30/05/2009 07:35:51
#30 Mashi, honestly, I not on about the incident itself so no need to continue, that doen't interest me here. All I saying is unless any of us have lost a kid we can't know what this mother feels. She's a very educated lady guys, but maybe it's a mothers feelings that are her driving force. Mashi maybe it isn't about the money.

Mashi you said "China was on the brink of another revolution." For a country born out of revolution, would that be so bad? Your countries ideals were founded by the people, who said it was time for change. Change isn't always a bad thing mate. Maybe more talking and some listening could have avoided more blood shed. And besides

“A revolution is impossible without a revolutionary situation; furthermore, not every revolutionary situation leads to revolution.”

Lenin


38

Jim A,

30/05/2009 07:36:52
Posty, he'll be fine.
39

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 07:36:55
Just as a matter of interest, one of the tactics they tried was to go in in plain clothes, but they were outed and violence ensued. They went in in uniform and were met with anger and violence.
40

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 07:42:25
#37 Okay, I'll hold off on the blow by blow account, just for you Jim.
Phew... the things you say are pretty loaded and difficult to answer simply. I shall have to take them one by one.

"All I saying is unless any of us have lost a kid we can't know what this mother feels. She's a very educated lady guys, but maybe it's a mothers feelings that are her driving force. Mashi maybe it isn't about the money."

So what does she want? We know what happened. We have the "answers". We know why it happened and we know how it happened. What other possible "answers" could she want? Sad as the reality is, mothers lose sons all the time. What makes her loss any different? What exactly is she trying to achieve?

Personally I have huge respect for those who protested. They had cahones. They had faith and what they did had a positive effect in the long run. It was a tragedy, there is no other way to describe it. But they were used for the purpose of those who wanted Communism to fail. They became the pawns in the bigger fight between China and the west and some of them were able to see it, and they wanted to leave. Others refused to see it, and continued to hold out.
41

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 07:47:02
#38 Jim A,
Unfortunately Jim, those are just words.
I would rather he just told the Canadian government including the military to shove it, but again, he's too damn stubborn, and he'll try to ride it out, no matter the odds against him.
That's the only way he and I differ, I'll be damned if someone who thinks he's better than me thinks he's gonna call the shots over me, he'll have a difficult time being understood whilst picking his teeth off the ground.

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42

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 07:47:54
Jim Sez.. "Mashi you said "China was on the brink of another revolution." For a country born out of revolution, would that be so bad?"

Hell yeah! More chaos, more death, more starvation. Thanks, but no thanks. China has been going through these "revolutions" for 5,000 years. One of the reasons it is now so successful is because it managed to stop that. The government brings us peace and harmony and that has given us the chance to advance, feed ourselves, become the nation we are today.

"Your countries ideals were founded by the people, who said it was time for change."
Some of them did. Not all of them. In fact the vast majority didn't. If everyone thought it was time for a talk there would be nothing anyone could do about it.

"Change isn't always a bad thing mate. Maybe more talking and some listening could have avoided more blood shed."
Jim, this is why I wanted to go back to what had happened before. Talks had been going on for almost 2 months! It wasn't an overnight thing.
43

Jim A,

30/05/2009 08:20:17
#42 Posty, revolution even if it remains communist or turns to capitalism needn't always be bloody, look at East Germany for one. I know there has been war in the Balkans but the majority of the former Soviet Bloc countries when through peacful revolution.

""Your countries ideals were founded by the people, who said it was time for change."
Some of them did. Not all of them. In fact the vast majority didn't. If everyone thought it was time for a talk there would be nothing anyone could do about it.

Posty, the people on that square wern't the majority of the people either mate.

"Change isn't always a bad thing mate. Maybe more talking and some listening could have avoided more blood shed."
Jim, this is why I wanted to go back to what had happened before. Talks had been going on for almost 2 months! It wasn't an overnight thing.

Yeah I know it wasn't an overnight thing. So it had been going on for 2 months and because it had been that long they sent the tanks in. Why did someone see the need to send in tanks Posty?
44

Jim A,

30/05/2009 08:23:03
#41 Posty, they may only be words Posty but as one old soldier to a serving soldiers father the are written with the utmost sincerity and feeling.
45

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 08:23:46
er.. Jim, that was me
46

Arminius,

Bei Uelzen 30/05/2009 08:23:51
#42 Mashimaro - Here is your chance to post your propaganda on the BBC site:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8033570.stm

I'd tone down the "our government brings us peace and harmony" stuff, otherwise people might think you are being sarcastic.
47

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 08:25:04
#43 Jim A,
Sorry Jim, but I didn't write what was said at post #42, that would be Mashimaro, and I will let him respond to your questions.

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48

Jim A,

30/05/2009 08:26:09
#45 Mashi, well spotted lad, you passed the test :-)
49

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 08:27:21
#44 Jim A,
Thanks Jim, I know you're sincere and I truly appreciate that.

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50

Jim A,

30/05/2009 08:28:29
#47 Posty yeah see that now, it's all your fault changing your bloody name every two minutes, yeah I know about the censor thing and the 100 ban No need to tell me again.
51

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 08:29:00
#48 Jim A,
What, no honourable mention for me?


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52

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 08:32:36
Why tanks? Because the government hoped the show of force would scare the students into going home.
Because they were fighting pitched battles.
They had had martial law for a month and a half. The situation was getting worse and they could not afford to lose control.
Jim, tanks weren't really the problem. They could have sent soldiers with spears and fought it out over two years while hundreds of thousands of others died of starvation and the gap was left to let western troops enter... you can see where this is going.
It seems to be a very western thing this "death by 1,000 cuts"... to slowly whittle away at opposition lest you cause anyone to frown at you. But, while you are slowly whittling away, people are dying.
Take Iraq for instance. If you guys had gone in and flattened all opposition and taken charge and responsibility you'd be at peace now and you wouldn't be having the trouble you're having now.
Instead you messed around and then lost your nerve. In effect you've caused far more damage by being weak than you have if you had just had the cahones to do the job.
53

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 08:33:19
Well all, I see my censor has checked in, might as well call it a day, it will soon be awash with red anyway, thanks for the nice discussions.

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54

Jim A,

30/05/2009 08:39:06
Why tanks? Because the government hoped the show of force would scare the students into going home.
Because they were fighting pitched battles.

So they were fighting pitched battles, that's what the Police Force is trained to handle, not the Army. It was a show of force alright, people dead on both sides. as for the western army bit and Iraq I'm not gonna go there Posty. That's taking it off topic, What should have been done in Iraq has nothing to do with this.
55

Jim A,

30/05/2009 08:42:26
#51 Posty, "What, no honourable mention for me?"

Stop fishing for compliments, it doesn't become you.
56

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 08:43:31
#54 Jim A,
Again buddy, you're getting me confused with Mashimaro, it was him who mentioned Iraq in post #52, Jim, are you OK?
When have I ever mentioned Iraq, EVER ;-))))

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57

Jim A,

30/05/2009 08:45:30
Anyway fella, the morning draws on and I have a roof to shingle, my better half keeps popping her head into my hidey hole to see what progress I make. As usual it's been great (but not that great;-) see you tomorrow in Scotland on Sunday.
58

Jim A,

30/05/2009 08:47:32
#56, Posty, see it's all your fault, pack it in ;-)
59

Mashimaro,

30/05/2009 08:54:30
#54 Ah Jim, you assume Chinese police then are like US or UK police now. They were and are not. They were not trained to handle such things. They are now :)

Bye Jim, cheerys Posty. We'll taunt Jimmy Dee into having the last word.
60

Arminius,

Bei Uelzen 30/05/2009 09:39:24
Hate to disappoint:

Sockpuppet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_sock_puppet
61

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 30/05/2009 09:41:55
i find it amusing that China actually has people paid to push the party line on the comments page of a newspaper from a small European country. They also seem to think that anyone would beleive they are just normal citizens. Sums up the whole inward looking naive thing to a tee.
62

Mashimaro,

China 30/05/2009 11:04:29
#62 I find it amusing that you believe that out of 1.3 billion people in China, none could possibly think the government is doing a good job.
63

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 11:58:19
#61 All Politicians are the same,
I find it amusing that a person from a small European country actually thinks he or she knows more about China than those of us working and living here.
You also seem to think that you are a special citizen in a small European country who brags about your total lack of understanding of China, both its citizens and its culture and in fact all that is associated with China.
Sums up the whole inward looking naive thing to a tee.

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64

Mashimaro,

30/05/2009 13:58:34
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/29/china-internet-deng-yujiao
65

Spotted everywhere,

China, 30/05/2009 14:23:35
Hey Mashi,
And these are the daily improvements I talk about when the West question us about China and the accusations we face on a daily basis, thanks for digging that one up Mashi, it will go a long way to convince at least the reasonable people that visit this forum and maybe in time all.

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66

Mashimaro,

china 30/05/2009 15:27:46
Meh, they won't listen.
67

Taz,

The Land of the Free 30/05/2009 19:46:43


I blame the Americans.
68

2dogs in D.C.,

30/05/2009 21:28:13
Taz-Yep,everythings our fault.But if they all want us to pay,they be s.o.l.
69

Mashimaro,

China 31/05/2009 01:44:49
double dog, did you know that the US feeds 70 million people around the world each year?
70

2dogs in D.C.,

31/05/2009 02:59:57
No,I did not.Is that somehow a bad thing if so?
71

Spotted everywhere,

China, 31/05/2009 03:10:30
Well it is bad since so many of your own can't get three squares a day, stop waging wars and all that military spending can go to feeding and housing your own, it will add up to far more than 70 million peole, of that you can be assured.

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72

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 31/05/2009 03:56:19
20 years on and still going on about it as though it was yesterday.
Japan killed at least 100 times more people in the "RAPE OF NANJING"(Nanking),when between 300,000 to 400,000 totally innocent civilians were raped and murdered during a six week period.I still here the usual on that incident,TOTAL SILENCE! Hypocrisy doesn't even come close.Suck up to Japan and revile China, how very self-serving.
Spare the she-ite about working for the Chinese.Just google '731 budui' (731 division of the Japanese Army),who experimented with Germ warfare agents on civilians and POW's INCLUDING BRITISH and still TOTAL SILINCE!
Those who committed these atrocities rose to prominence in the Japanese Healthcare system.Wonder who allowed them to do that?
73

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 31/05/2009 03:58:34
Sorry for the typo "I still hear the usual on that incident" ;-)
74

Arminius,

31/05/2009 08:48:00
This from a British journalist, Kate Adie, present at the scene of the crime 20 years ago:

"From just before midnight on June 3, I spent five hours on the streets among those unarmed people being shot by their own army.
Although the political drama took place in Tiananmen Square, we roamed for miles that night and saw killings in the suburbs and back streets.
Scores of trucks thundered down Chang An Avenue towards Tiananmen Square, each with soldiers firing down every side street.
Bewildered citizens were killed as they wandered outside to investigate the noise. Others died as bullets ripped through the thin walls of their traditional hutong houses.
Students who confronted the army were faced with thousands of soldiers firing volley after volley.
It was a hellish scene - at the city's Children's Hospital, I saw the floor awash with blood.
The casualty figures were already being concealed as the dead and injured littered the streets. The shooting continued for several days, with the nation's capital paralysed with shock. Hundreds were killed - perhaps even thousands.
Twenty years on, the figures are still a secret. Indeed, the whole event cannot be talked about, except in the official terms of a heroic intervention by the
PLA to save China from 'counter-revolutionaries'".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1189702/KATE-ADIE-Blood-Chinas-hands-20-years-Tiananmen-Square-massacre.html
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31/05/2009 10:59:31
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31/05/2009 11:04:29
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Mashimaro,

31/05/2009 12:53:03
#74 what a load of b*ll*cks. thousands of soldiers firing volley after volley... maybe in hollywood, dude. Not in reality. What do you think would happen if thousands of soldiers fired volley after volley into tens of thousands of rioters... eh? ... eh?
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31/05/2009 13:51:55
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31/05/2009 13:57:39
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Mashimaro,

China 31/05/2009 15:07:59
Spottit... i like the way she has people coming out on to the streets "wondering what the noise was". They knew full well. They had been warned to stay off the streets, doh! "Citizens, the military is going to act against the rioters, for your own safety, stay of the street" "My my... what's that sound of trucks and shooting... what could it be? I know, let's go have a look!" "uh oh"
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31/05/2009 15:15:27
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31/05/2009 15:25:11
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should have gone to specsavers,

Thurso 31/05/2009 16:27:04
#81
#76 said: "Ever since Japan was introduced freedom they have been wonderful people"

How the heck is that a racist comment?
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should have gone to specsavers,

Thurso 31/05/2009 16:40:00
#40: "Sad as the reality is, mothers lose sons all the time. What makes her loss any different? What exactly is she trying to achieve?"

Emotional closure after her sons death. An impossibility; she'll be heartbroken for the rest of her life and she'll be motivated by that heartbreak for the rest of her life. There are more recent examples of such heartbreak: mothers lost their children during the earthquake and they will presumably be motivated, for the rest of their lives, to campaign against poor building practices. If you find this disagreeable then if I were in any position to give advice I'd say 'put up with it, or you'll look like an insensitive jerk'
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Taz,

The Land of the Free 31/05/2009 18:43:21
It must be said that Japan does not acknowledge its war crimes, and it is not taught in their schools. The Germans do, and I’ll give them that much. The Chinese of course are habitual liars. Beating on Tibetan monks with poles and boots. God knows how many they have murdered.
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Taz,

The Land of the Free 31/05/2009 18:50:54
Re: "We've got them looking over their shoulders in the West now because we're about an inch shy of overtaking them, and ten years from now we'll have lapped them, thus all the sh!t being hurled our way now."

The small percentage of Chinese that have crawled out of dire poverty hardly makes China some sort of world front runner. You owe your little lift in living from the free world buying your cheap shoddy garbage. A recession here has shut down half your factories. We can have you back on your financial face any time we feel like it.
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Arminius,

Bei Uelzen 31/05/2009 19:21:41
#77 Mashimaro - "What do you think would happen if thousands of soldiers fired volley after volley into tens of thousands of rioters" - I would imagine that many would be killed or wounded and the rest would hit the deck or flee. Kate Adie was actually present when these events were unfolding and is not known for her lack of courage or exagerated reporting.
If you think this is "a load of b*ll*cks" you can contact kate adie here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/feedback/

This is for press enquiries only (you being a journalist and all) and there is even a link to where you can complain about Ms Adie's defamation of the gloious Peoples Liberation Army.

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Mashimaro,

China 01/06/2009 00:04:15
#84
"If you find this disagreeable then if I were in any position to give advice I'd say 'put up with it, or you'll look like an insensitive jerk"

And that is exactly what the progandists want the public to think. Booo hooo, here's a poor little old lady who's upset that her son died... weep, wail, gnash teeth here.
I would prefer to remember her son as a brave and optimistic boy who did what he though best for the country, but lost. But the western press won't let her do that.
And the parents in the earthquake region, sure, let them be on the look out for bad building pracitices in future, but that's not their agenda. They're after more money and again, stirred up by the western media, will try to get their shots in to undermine the country's harmony.
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Mashimaro,

China 01/06/2009 00:18:00
#87 I'll just post the truth here, Jimmy. The report from the Martial Law Command Bulletin. When I have the time.
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Arminius,

Bei Uelzen 01/06/2009 08:44:23
#89 Mashimaro - I don't want any more Communist propaganda masquerading as truth. Try contacting Kate Adie (she is a fellow journalist after all) for a frank exchange of views on what actually happened 20 years ago. She was there, where were you?

 

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