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Obama mania grips 200,000



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Published Date: 25 July 2008
IT WAS part John F Kennedy, part Martin Luther King and part Ronald Reagan. But in the end, it fused into one man: Barack Obama.
Speaking last night before a crowd of more than 200,000 in Berlin's Tiergarten, not far from where the Berlin Wall once stood, the man who would hold the most powerful political office on Earth delivered an impassioned call for the world's people to unite in their common humanity.

His appearance had the air of a rock concert, with a teeming crowd hooked on every word. He started his speech, saying: "I come to Berlin as so many of my countrymen have come before, although tonight I speak to you not as a candidate for president of the United States but a proud citizen of the United States and a proud citizen of the world."

He told the crowd, some 80,000 larger than that which came to hear Kennedy's historic address in 1963, that he knew he did not look much like the Americans who had spoken in Berlin before, emphasising his Kenyan roots.

He went on to talk of how the US and Germany had shared a 60-year partnership. "This city, among all cities, knows the dream of freedom," he said.

He invoked the Berlin airlift of 60 years ago that saved the city from the Communists, the peaceful revolution of 1989 that saw the end of the Berlin Wall and the horror of 9/11.

He told the crowd: "The fall of the Berlin Wall brought new hope. But that very closeness has given rise to new dangers – dangers that cannot be contained within the borders of a country or by the distance of an ocean.

"The terrorists of September 11th plotted in Hamburg and trained in Kandahar and Karachi before killing thousands from all over the globe on American soil.

"As we speak, cars in Boston and factories in Beijing are melting the ice caps in the Arctic, shrinking coastlines in the Atlantic and bringing drought to farms from Kansas to Kenya.

"Poorly secured nuclear material in the former Soviet Union, or secrets from a scientist in Pakistan could help build a bomb that detonates in Paris.

"The poppies in Afghanistan become the heroin in Berlin. The poverty and violence in Somalia breeds the terror of tomorrow. The genocide in Darfur shames the conscience of us all.

"People of Berlin, people of the world, this is our moment. This is our time."

Mr Obama acknowledged the differences between the US and Europe. "In Europe, the view that America is part of what has gone wrong in our world, rather than a force to help make it right, has become all too common," he said. "In America, there are voices that deride and deny the importance of Europe's role in our security and our future. Both views miss the truth – that Europeans today are bearing new burdens and taking more responsibility in critical parts of the world; and that just as American bases built in the last century still help to defend the security of this continent, so does our country still sacrifice greatly for freedom around the globe.

"Yes, there have been differences between America and Europe. No doubt, there will be differences in the future. But the burdens of global citizenship continue to bind us together.

"A change of leadership in Washington will not lift this burden. In this new century, Americans and Europeans alike will be required to do more – not less. Partnership and co-operation among nations is not a choice; it is the one way, the only way, to protect our common security and advance our common humanity.

"That is why the greatest danger of all is to allow new walls to divide us from one another.

"A new generation – our generation – must make our mark on history."

If he had hoped for a little stardust effect in choosing Berlin as the venue for his message, he was not disappointed. Hailed as the "Black Kennedy" and the "Black Messiah", he capitalised on a seething hatred in Germany for the current occupant of the White House – and a deep suspicion of his opponent in the race to be the next one.

Joerg Zimmerman, 43, of Berlin, called Obama's speech an extension of the one made by president Ronald Reagan in 1987, where he called for the Berlin Wall to be torn down.

"I liked it when he was talking about different people coming together, and when he picked up where Reagan left off about tearing down walls," he said.

Some 67 per cent of Germans said in a poll this week they would rather Mr Obama was the next leader of the free world than his Republican rival, John McCain.

Obama chose the front-line city of the Cold War as the appropriate setting for a sermon about the new conflict – with Islamic fundamentalism. Aides said he could have picked London or Paris, but with Gordon Brown and Nicolas Sarkozy on the floor in ratings terms – and with the precedent of Berlin being good to US statesmen – he seemed to have made the right choice.

Berlin was where JFK made his famous "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech in 1963 and where Reagan implored the Soviets to "tear down this wall" in 1987.

Tens of thousands flocked to the base of the Victory Column in the Tiergarten at the heart of the city. The column, celebrating 19th-century Prussian military victories, is less than a mile from the Brandenburg Gate, where he initially hoped to speak but was stopped by Angela Merkel, the chancellor, who felt it would be an "inappropriate" venue.

Germany has been swept up in "Obamania" for days, flattered that he had picked the German capital for his most important stop in Europe.

Mr Obama's security aides, working with local police, had confiscated anti-George Bush posters and leaflets – anything that could be played back as being "un-American" in the super-patriotic race for the White House.

Fans turned up from as far away as Togo, screaming "Obama today, Obama today!" outside the luxury Adlon Hotel where he spent the night. At least 10,000 expatriate Americans from across Europe caught trains and planes to Berlin for his speech.

Mr McCain, who was devoting his time to the US Midwest, chose to campaign in a German restaurant – in Ohio. He told reporters he would love to give a speech in Germany, "but I'd much prefer to do it as president of the United States rather than as a candidate for president".

Mr Obama will now move on to France and Britain, visits that will conclude a foreign trip designed to advertise his grasp of international issues and to place him in presidential-style settings with key world leaders.

Cameron and Brown set for an out-and-out battle to bask in reflected glory

Gerri Peev


BARACK Obama's visit is likely to trigger a tug-of-war between Gordon Brown and David Cameron, as both leaders hope his popularity rubs off on them.

Both men will meet Mr Obama on Saturday. But the Tory leader threatens to steal the show quietly with the Senator , who has been likened to a rock star for his ability to draw massive crowds.

While Mr Brown will host Mr Obama inside Number 10 for 45 minutes, protocol dictates he cannot hold a joint press conference with him as he has not been elected president.

To do so would be to show favouritism towards Mr Obama, and represent a snub to the Republican rival, John McCain.

Although he is always mindful of manners, Mr Cameron is not bound by such stringent rules. The Tory leader will walk with the US presidential candidate around Westminster and straight into the House of Commons.

There, the pair will spend half an hour or so together in Mr Cameron's Commons office before issuing a joint statement.

The Scotsman understands that Mr Obama was just as keen for the meeting as Mr Cameron, who is well ahead in the polls in front of Mr Brown. There have been intense diary discussions between the offices of the Senator and the Opposition leader for some weeks.

A source close to Mr Cameron said that the Tory leader found Mr Obama impressive: "David has been a huge admirer of Obama. He is greatly looking forward to the meeting."

Earlier this week, the Democrats' candidate revealed he wanted to meet leaders with whom he expected to forge a ten-year-strong relationship, if he wins the election. Embarrassingly for Mr Brown, while he rattled off a host of names, he omitted the Prime Minister's.

Mr Obama will take questions outside Number 10 after his meeting with Mr Brown, but there will not be a joint "grip and grin" photo opportunity.

The Prime Minister's predecessor, Tony Blair, will also meet Mr Obama at his London hotel.

With 'Ich bin ein Berliner' JFK cemented centuries-old ties

PRESIDENT John F Kennedy's statement "Ich bin ein Berliner" was intended to show the United States' unwavering support for West Germany in the frostiest period of the Cold War.

But strong relations between the two countries go back much further. Germans have been emigrating to the US since the 17th century and some 15 per cent of the US population can trace their heritage back to Germany.

The persecution of Jews led to a new wave of emigration.

The US's presence as an occupying power in the aftermath of the Second World War has, paradoxically, deepened affections.

The operation of an airlift for nearly an entire year in 1948 when the Soviets blockaded Berlin, and the economic recovery enabled by Marshall Plan, strengthened German feelings towards Americans.

At the height of the Cold War, US military bases acted as a deterrent to the Soviets.

Since German re-unification in 1990, its continued membership of Nato has entrenched the transatlantic link.

OPINION: Are you ready for Obama mania?

The full article contains 1668 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 July 2008 1:49 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Barack Obama , US elections
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 00:05:33

It will all end in tears.

Tempting fate, in the first paragraph.
2

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 00:58:36
Mr Obama will bring happiness to a few for a short time and misery to billions over the medium term. His politics are short term 'lets get elected' jazz ... nothing at all of substance ... and no real change just promises which will, rest assured, be unkept ... you heard it here first ...
3

Bob dublin,

cairo 25/07/2008 01:02:00
Reagan? Reagan was pro-america,,Obama is not.
Lets be honest,,200,000 people were not there to see obama,,he was a side act to a free concert. Why do you not report this?
4

2dogs in D.C.,

On the sunny side of life 25/07/2008 01:03:51
Let the right wing hate begin. Oh, wait, it already has..
5

Jock MacSprog,

25/07/2008 01:10:30
What a shame for Obamessiah that Germans dont vote in the US. This man has an ego the size of the Brandenburg Gate and a Messiah Complex to match. Ironic that the desire to be loved by Europe is what has gotten us into the mess we are currently in in the UK. We cant even deport foreign criminals from our own country ! Perhaps Europe isnt the shining role model that some think and perhaps the Yanks shouldnt give a hoot what Europe thinks !
6

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 25/07/2008 01:31:10
Forty years of public school education “chickens” have “come home to roost:” thinking and feelings have become interchangeable.
Once one understands this dynamic, everything becomes clear. Barack Obama’s entire presidential campaign–with a giant assist from a “star-struck” media–revolves around being the more “emotionally satisfying” candidate. His handlers have deduced that, for many Americans (perhaps even a voting majority), the most important qualification for president is to be someone who makes them “feel good.”
Thus, it matters not how much he changes positions, mangles policy or grossly underestimates our enemies. Such “details” only matter to Americans who still believe the presidency is a position of utmost seriousness. Many other Americans want someone who, as Chris Matthews put it, makes them feel “a thrill going up my leg.” In a country where reason were ascendant, such a vapidly adolescent endorsement of a candidate’s “expertise” would be a liability. In an America besotted by celebrity, “infotainment,”and ten-second attention spans, “thrilling” may be the ultimate asset.
But what about after the thrill is gone? Emotionalism has its limits. Barack Obama treats serious issues as if they are distractions interfering with his generic message of “change.” Tough questions from the media “annoy” him. A wife who has put herself in the middle of the campaign is ostensibly “off limits.” Anyone who even hints at being a liability to Obama himself is “tossed under the bus.”
Obama thinks he’s entitled to his absent any significant accomplishments. Why? Back to decades of public school philosophy: self-esteem no longer requires achievement. Obama is a man of his time.
And maybe that’s the most damning indictment of all: too many Americans can’t imagine a world where evil doggedly pursues its ends, where actions have consequences, and great power requires great wisdom. For them, it’s all feelings all the time. Barack Obama is the embodiment of their emotion
7

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 25/07/2008 01:32:16
continued..

. For them, it’s all feelings all the time. Barack Obama is the embodiment of their emotional self-absorption.
If he were running for Wizard of Oz, he’d have my vote. President of the United States? As a citizen of Emerald City put it, “that’s a horse of different color.”
And it has nothing to do with race.
8

Jock MacSprog,

25/07/2008 01:34:13
Damn #6 thats a really intelligent and well written post. The question is what the heck are you doing on this vapid message board ?
9

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 25/07/2008 01:37:15
#4

"Let the right wing hate begin. Oh, wait, it already has"

But only in a small way. The diehard, gun slinging, foul-mouthed, anti-everything bunch that's not for another invasion of Iran are not out of their beds yet.
10

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 25/07/2008 01:37:53
my charm and talents. But first, fifty cents, please. (Or $25,000….)
While in Jordan, he schmoozed with King Abdullah—-the meetings all private and off-the-record of course, except Abdullah and his fellow Arabs came away encouraged that Obama would be more “even-handed” in dealing with the Middle East (meaning more pro-Arab and less pro-Israel). Charles Hurt in The New York Post writes that Ringleader Obama opted for no photo ops with any regular Arabs. Can’t run the risk of reminding American voters that his father’s side of the family is Muslim. (Maybe Jordanian Arabs should start a “Dissed by Obama” support group. The two Muslim women bumped from a photo op here at home several weeks ago could be charter members.)
From Jordan, the Ringleader moved on to Israel, where he railed against the possibility of a nuclear Iran, calling it a “grave threat.” Just weeks ago, however, he dismissed Iran as a small, relatively insignificant country that certainly didn’t pose a threat of such gravity. What has changed? Oh, right. He’s standing in Israel, and with a general election coming up fast.
On talking to apocalyptic Islamic fundamentalists like Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, this week’s version is that he’s “always said” that he’d be open to talking to rogue leaders if he thought those talks could produce results. One problem: that ISN’T what he’s “always” said. He’s “always” said that he’d be willing to talk to Ahmadinejad and other maniacs “without preconditions.” And he never mentioned the objective of such talks being “results,” or anything other than an ego-stroke for a sensitive listener like a President Obama.
What has changed? Oh, right. He uttered this latest variation while standing in Israel, and with a general election coming up fast.



11

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 25/07/2008 01:40:20
continued..

He also said, “I think there are opportunities for us to mobilize a much more serious regime of sanctions on Iran, but also to offer them the possibility of improved relations to the international community if they stand down on these nuclear weapons.”
Welcome to the Bush policy, George W. Obama.
Of course, the Bush policy of ever bigger carrots has resulted in the Iranians laughing in our faces and proceeding with nuclear development. Would President Obama continue that policy until Iran goes nuclear? Or would he see the policy of sanctions and diplomacy as a failure, and if so, would he be willing to take more aggressive action?
In the Obama Three-Ring Spectacle, everything is an illusion. Every statement morphs into something else. Every policy changes into another.The smoke billows and the mirrors move. The floors shift beneath you, and the Funhouse beckons.
Step right up.



12

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 25/07/2008 01:43:19
#6

"..........great power requires great wisdom......"

Your cut and paste diatribe has some good advice but it really works against you and your kind because great wisdom is and has been lacking in the administration that's about to hit the skids.
13

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 25/07/2008 01:46:35
#10..is supposed to say..

Step right up, he says. I will show you wonders and miracles. I will dazzle you with my charm and talents. But first, fifty cents, please. (Or $25,000….)

I wish I couls take all the credit for this..because it is the way I feel also..but the above posts have been referenced from articles sent to me.
It is the way American media has been slowly seeing what is going on.
14

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

SNP VICTORY HQ 25/07/2008 01:48:34
NEWSFLASH:
RECOUNT UNDERWAY AT THE GLASGOW EAST BY ELECTION. SNP WIN BY LESS THAN 500 VOTES. AN NATION CHANGING WIN AND A VICTORY FOR THE SCOTTISH PEOPLE
15

Lennie,

FLA,USA 25/07/2008 04:18:59
I knew Ronald Reagan, and you Mr. Obama are NO Ronald Reagan. I am very afraid for the USA.
16

DSA,

USA 25/07/2008 04:40:04
Sigh - As expected, the vicious hate filled barbs from the right wing are showing up under this article. They like to forget that we had had a war criminal in the White house these past 8 years. As if that is not enough, the constitution is in tatters and our freedoms are dwindling. "Executive Privelige" is used as an excuse to mask the crimes he and his neocon thugs have committed against our nation and the world.

Obama is a visionary. He admitted the madness of recent USA policies under Bush Cheney and the rest of the fascists. Obama is a breath of fresh air. He will run intellectual circles and completely decimate John McBush in any debate. He has wisdom and good judgement.. something sorely lacking from Bush, whose ignorance and arrogance are his main claim to fame, other than being a lying traitor who is responsible for the biggest foreign policy blunder in US history.

Don't be surprised to see more hate spweing comments in here folks. We get it all the time from Rush Limbaugh, Bill o Reilly and the rest of the biggotted narrow minded hypocrits that claim to know everything but know nothing..

President Obama is on the way. Like a breath of fresh air.... The world needs him...
17

mrd,

fairbanks 25/07/2008 05:46:18
#16 Dsa,
Let's see, a hate filled diatribe and bad spelling, boy are we lucky. Exactly which freedom have you lost, that you had 8 years ago? It gets so tired sometimes. MRD
18

Charlie10,

North Billerica 25/07/2008 06:20:53
This man has pulled the wool over a lot of people in the USA.He keeps preaching change ,Change .He like the Clintons before him belongs in jail ,He has been involved in so many so called deals,Some of the people around him should be in jail, In the seventies they were involved in Post office and Federal building .Sit inns,and many other typs of protests .Anybody that votes for this man can not believe in God .He believes it is allright to kill little babies .The only change this man will take care off,Is the change he slips into his own pocket.
God help the world if this man is elected .
19

AlanFG,

Forest Grove 25/07/2008 06:37:17
I'm surprised the tone of the comments thus far are rather negative towards Obama. He will not be able to fix all the damage that W. has done over the last 8-years overnight, not to mention W's lack action on the pressing problems of the day.

But, if the U.S.A. is going to get back on the positive track, I think it's going to take a person of vision and a keen ability to gather people together and articulate the way forward. As reported in the article Obama has this talent and understands the process needed, not just among the American people, but among many people of the world. We are not as separate in our fates as we used to be.
20

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 25/07/2008 07:02:10
Lennie...he is no JFK either
21

StopTheNumpties,

Berlin 25/07/2008 07:32:54
"Ich Bin Ein Beginner"

Obama is, unfortunately an empty suit. He gives eloquant speeches on "hope" and "what" he will do, but no clues as to how he will do it. He denigrates the old school and "old" politics, and they will teach him the same lesson they taught Jimmy Carter when he thought talking poorly about the people he would have to work with was a good strategy. Obama has struggled with finding his identity as a second generation black American with no roots in the American black community that had its history shaped by slavery. Trying to get his "cred" in the black community he embraced the unRev Jeremiah Wright so tightly, he didn't notice and didn't think it mattered the man was racist (Oprah figured it out and left after 3 years - Obama hung on for 20 years working hard to polish that cred.) He's so inexperienced in World Affairs he lets his staff issue an edict to reporters that they couldn't wear green on his mideast trip, because it's the color of Hamas, completely unaware the color is associated with Islam, not any particular organization.

Ich Bin Ein Beginner. A nice suit, but empty nonetheless. Mussulini is probably a closer match than JFK, King or Reagan.
22

Selgovae,

25/07/2008 08:02:50
#6 Lynne

At least have the decency to provide the source:

http://politicalmavens.com/index.php/2008/07/23/barack-obama-the-triumph-of-emotionalism-over-reason/
23

James Donald,

Newbridge 25/07/2008 08:12:46
#22 Selgovae - Lynne seldom has the decency to provide her sources. Apparently this piece was written by Arnold Ahlert. Would that be the same Republican nutter Arnold Ahlert that writes for the Murdoch-owned rag the New York Post?
24

Reaver,

Lebanon 25/07/2008 09:13:22
#16. President Bush a war criminal? What about ol' Billary - bombed the christians in Serbia to protect the muslim aggressors. Sent our boys into Somalia and refused to provide armor to back them up - remember Blackhawk Down? President Bush - I thank all the Gods he was there instead of Algore when 9-11 happened. Algore would have sent the FBI after the terrorists instead of the military.
Let's review Barry's main points from all his speeches -
Change, change, change, hope, change, hope, hope, change...
Going to campaign in all 57 states, the Japanese dropped one big bomb on Pearl Harbor, cars are causing icecaps to melt.
Empty suit. Learn your US history (and count the states again).
What talent does he have? Speaks well from a teleprompter...
Nobody on the left wants to hear what the scientists now say, that we have been in a global cooling trend and will continue to do so.
This guy is no Kennedy - not even Teddy. Nor is he a Reagan. I doubt he has the talent to shine President Bush's shoes.

We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand, ready in the night, to do violence on those who would do us harm.
We need rough men, not empty suits.
25

Gulliver,

Harare 25/07/2008 09:22:33
I listened to Mr. Obama outlining his foreign policy vision last week and in my opinion what he said made a lot of sense. His policy of openness to dialogue as opposed to isolation of those nations American does not see eye to eye with is one that was of particular interest and I think he's got it spot-on. Isolation tactics do not usually achieve the intended results-look at CUBA today, how many American presidents came and left all without successfully dislodging their loathed enemy Mr. Castro. Another example is Mr. Gaddafi..

Usually, isolating such nations further entrenches the leaders of those nations' vice-grip on power. The greater the villification of such leaders the greater the propaganda machinery is oiled to further create images of noble nationalists. Talking to them is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of greater power of reasoning. It opens room for narrowing differences and reaching compromise. It of course does not mean that even when people talk they will automatically agree, and it may not always be good that they actually agree but what is important is to keep options for civilized resolution of differences open.

I certainly have my reservations about Mr Obama, but I think he should be credited for seriously considering including diplomacy at the highest level in the American foreign-policy repertiore.
26

bluehead,

edinburgh 25/07/2008 09:44:30
then the German people should be very careful,for once before they showed such fervour, they ended up in terrible trouble.
27

Jock MacSprog,

25/07/2008 10:26:29
#16 Are your knees trembling ? Are you getting damp ? I love the star struck school girl use of terms like "visionary" it just cracks me up !
28

ThaiScot,

Thailand 25/07/2008 10:27:53
No 6 and several others. You have claimed that Obama changes his stance to suit the moment. So what makes him different to any her politician?
29

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 10:37:37
Cut and Paste Lynne. Don't you have a newspaper board to post your cut and paste on in the "land of the free" ?
30

Gulliver,

Harare 25/07/2008 10:38:38
# 24, Reaver

The mentality that military might is what is always right is exactly the kind of thing that fanatics thrive on. It is one key ingredient radicals need in perpetrating crimes like 9/11 and the senseless war on Iraq.

One Zim war hero said a couple of months ago, "We would rather use our ideas instead of our guns to defend our interests, however, should our ideas fail then we are prepared to use our guns". Military might as a last resort, diplomacy as the first!

The billions the American people have spent in waging a military war could have gone a longer way in helping to create a safer America by partnering with Iraqis in developmental programs (both socio-economic and political) to create stable and more equitable Middle-East. Kids in Iraq today might not know what evil Saddam did but as they grow up their opinion of America will not be of a knight in shining amour come to liberate them from a tyrant, instead they will see an arrogant occupying force so distant from home. A beligerent directly responsible for the unfavorable living conditions - continuos insecurity, massive deterioration in living standards, declining access to health care, acute shortage of clean water, unavailability of safe shelter. The image they will have is of American people with guns on their soil so distant from home.

In fact the Iraqi opinion of Americans is not favourable at the moment, whereas leaders of former bitter rivals IRAN can visit Iraq freely and announce their visits in advance, travel in broad daylight, and get red-carpet treatment. Those purporting to bring democracy visit in secret and are afraid of showing their faces to the Iraqi public.

We talk of being civilized yet we have created more devastation (and weapons that can destroy the whole world in a few minutes) in the last century than previous civilizations were able!

31

bogmon,

25/07/2008 10:44:29
24 Reaver:

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand, ready in the night, to do violence on those who would do us harm.
We need rough men, not empty suits."

What an incredibly daft comment.

It is precisely those 'rough men' 'doing violence' who are unaccustomed and unwilling to engage brain before pointing rifle, that has made the world what it is today. Obama is not an 'empty suit'. He will prove to be an intelligent negotiator, more willing to talk and pacify than to inflame and injure.

Who do you suggest then? Arnold Schwarzenegger perhaps?
32

SouthernSkye,

Bonnie Bonn 25/07/2008 11:13:47
Der Spiegel was reporting this morning that he only spoke to the U.S press after the event.
".....Berliners spent the whole day trying to catch a glimpse of Barack Obama. But the presumptive Democratic presidential candidate was hard to catch. First, he drove into the underground garage at the luxuriuos Hotel Adlon. Then, at his meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, he escaped from the photographers by just seconds. The rumor that he had spent the afternoon working out at the hotel gym took on all the significance of an Elvis sighting......"

"...While Obama shouted the last few lines of his speech into the crowd, his handlers were already escorting the members of the press that travel with him down from the guest stands. The journalists would be given a few moments to speak with Obama. They were all Americans, all 40 of them. CNN, the New York Times, Newsweek, the Chicago Sun-Times. Members of the foreign press were explicitly unwelcome. The target audience was America. Sorry, Berlin....."

full story from Der Spiegel (in English)
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,567932,00.html
33

Truthman,

Washington, DC 25/07/2008 11:24:16
As our troops stationed there for decades reported, products of miscegenation receive great welcomes in Germany.
34

57Nomad,

california 25/07/2008 11:32:28
#4 2 dogs

2 dogs said:

"Let the right wing hate begin. Oh, wait, it already has.."

This is post #4. Can you please point to any hateful statements in the first three posts?

35

BRUHibs,

25/07/2008 11:56:28
200,000 ?
Did not realise that Germany was quite so dull with nothing better to do. This guy is an immature politician - nothing else; no substance, so will make a perfect American president. At least he sounds ok, not like the current numbskull.
36

57Nomad,

california 25/07/2008 12:04:09
#16 dsa

first dsa said:

"Sigh - As expected, the vicious hate filled barbs from the right wing are showing up under this article."

Ah ha! Vicious, vicious, I tell you. But then, incredibly enough, in the very next sentence he says:

"they like to forget that we had had a war criminal in the White house these past 8 years. As if that is not enough, the constitution is in tatters and our freedoms are dwindling. "Executive Privelige" is used as an excuse to mask the crimes he and his neocon thugs have committed against our nation and the world."

Here is this clown, a poor speller, by the way, after having the gall to accuse others of hate filled barbs. IN THE VERY NEXT SENTENCE after accusing others of being hate filled, he calls the President a war criminal, that unnamed minions of the president are destroying the constitution, and that the President Bush has invoked executive privilege. And he ends up by saying the President is in cahoots with unnamed 'neocon thugs' to proceed to and fro in search of havoc to wreak for some unnamed, even unguessed, but sinister purpose.

And you, dsa, are going around accusing others of being hate filled? I'll tell you what. If anybody out there wants to be hate filled but can't quite muster up the requisite animosity, they should go over to your house and borrow some of yours because you got your share and somebody else's too.

As to 'executive privilege' it is perfectly legitimate. If the Democrat congress delays hearings on an important Presidential appointment, e.g., a Supreme Court justice. Can the President then demand that the Democrats turn over all documents relating to the decision to delay the appointment? The answer is, no, of course not, congress is a coequal branch of government and the executive branch can't interfere in its operations. It is exactly the same if reversed, the congress has no authority to examine the inner workings of the executive branch. The President fired staff he found wanti
37

57Nomad,

25/07/2008 12:06:24
#36 contd.

The President fired staff he found wanting and replaced them, he doesn't need permission from congress.

Now lets look at how it has been used. This is a list of claims of executive privilege from the previous, Clinton, administration:

"1993 - to block an inspection of Vince Foster’s files after his suicide
1994 - to block turning over documents from its ethics review regarding Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy
1995 - to block lawyer’s notes from conversations with Hillary Clinton
1996 - to block turning over documents relating to arms shipments from Iran to Bosnia
1996 - to block turning over a memo by FBI Director Louis Freeh criticizing the drug policy
1996 - to block turning over documents subpoenaed concerning Haiti police violence
1996 - to block turning over Travel Office documents
1997 - to block turning over campaign finance related records
1997 - to block testimony of Bruce Lindsey concerning James Riady - campaign finance
1997 - to block turning over documents pertaining to cancellation of an Indian casino
1998 - to block testimony of Paul Begala - filegate
1998 - to block grand jury testimony of Bruce Lindsey and Sidney Blumenthal - Lewinsky
1998 - to block grand jury testimony of Bruce Lindsey (”attorney client”) - Lewinsky
1998 - to block Secret Service testimony - Lewinsky (new privilege, “protective function”) - Lewinksy
1998 - to block answers to 2 questions Hillary Clinton (”spousal privilege”) – Whitewater

Every one of those claims involves criminal cases. The firing has squat to do with a criminal investigation. Hate filled, indeed!

38

Number 6,

Germany 25/07/2008 12:09:03
Like the Scottish "unionistas" , the anti-obamas cannott see the wood for the trees. They refuse to acknowledge the man's superiority over Old man McCain.

Manty Americans will have taken heart from the way a
US president in waiting was received in the heart of Europe.America, we are keeping your place in the world community warm, you are welcome back the minute you
elect Obama. Your economy needs the world on your side, the world needs you onside. Obama is the only candidate who can deliver this unity.

Elect McCain if you wish, you live in a democracy , but if you do, I have no idea who you can turn to on the International stage. I even saw israelis who were impressed with Obama , and saw McCain as just more of the "same old same old" as they put it.

Obama did what Bush was never able to do, speak face to face, in the open, to the people of Europe. I'm not sure you realise just how low your country's standing was/is around the world. He is the man to change all that. Can you imagine McCain trying the same gig ?

One man and his dog would have turned up, and even then, only to boo.

39

bogmon,

25/07/2008 12:12:21
57Nomad:

Your non-hate filled comments really do bolster your argument very well.
40

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 12:13:44
57 Urmad - You're wasting your time, it's going to be President Obama. : )
41

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 25/07/2008 12:37:30
Listening very CAREFULLY yesterday to Obama's Berlin speech; he made it abundantly clear the countries in present day Europe that matter to th US - which has been fairly obvious for much more than a decade - are
GERMANY, and the second most powerful, its neighbour FRANCE, which he intends to visit today.
The UK since the end off the First World War, has been a small rapidly declining economic and industrial Island which most in the UK are inclined to accept. How much of what is presently left is in the ownership off UK capital? From Supermarkets to Industry, make the attempt to find out who the REAL owners are; and you may well get a rude awakening to find the truth.
We have since 1945; been a useful and servile partner, in a one-sided "SPECIAL FRIENDSHIP" pact with the USA. They have been our masters and still remain so, and
treat the UK with contempt. Since the advent of Blair and Brown's sleaze ridden,lying, corrupt New Labour Party, even before 1997 the US has used and abused the UK. Barack Obama is a far more intelligent man then ever Blair, Brown or any off the yes-men they were to gather around them since their so-called exclusive and famous "landslide vitory". One of Obama's notable remarks made about the UK yesterday when highlighting the regard they have in the US for the UK; was when he related his ancestry history which gave him the opportunity to have an University education. He explained that his ancestor from the once UK owned Kenya was forced to flee from his native country to seek freedom; which he found in the USA. Most coloured people wherever they have originated up from, share much the same views about the cruel and brutal colonial past off the UK, Obama was relating too yesterday.
He was only showing grudgingly, in my assessment, his respect for the rapidly dying dis-united UK with a last minute brief visit here this afternoon. For what?
More troops for Afghanistan to help out the ever increasing numbers of young US service personnel d
42

Number 6,

Germany 25/07/2008 12:37:39
57Noclue, it's over. Give it up and accept the defeat that's coming your way like an adult.
43

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 25/07/2008 12:42:15
Listening very CAREFULLY yesterday to Obama's Berlin speech; he made it abundantly clear the countries in present day Europe that matter to th US - which has been fairly obvious for much more than a decade - are
GERMANY, and the second most powerful, its neighbour FRANCE, which he intends to visit today.
The UK since the end off the First World War, has been a small rapidly declining economic and industrial Island which most in the UK are inclined to accept. How much of what is presently left is in the ownership off UK capital? From Supermarkets to Industry, make the attempt to find out who the REAL owners are; and you may well get a rude awakening to find the truth.
We have since 1945; been a useful and servile partner, in a one-sided "SPECIAL FRIENDSHIP" pact with the USA. They have been our masters and still remain so, and
treat the UK with contempt. Since the advent of Blair and Brown's sleaze ridden,lying, corrupt New Labour Party, even before 1997 the US has used and abused the UK. Barack Obama is a far more intelligent man then ever Blair, Brown or any off the yes-men they were to gather around them since their so-called exclusive and famous "landslide vitory". One of Obama's notable remarks made about the UK yesterday when highlighting the regard they have in the US for the UK; was when he related his ancestry history which gave him the opportunity to have an University education. He explained that his ancestor from the once UK owned Kenya was forced to flee from his native country to seek freedom; which he found in the USA. Most coloured people wherever they have originated up from, share much the same views about the cruel and brutal colonial past off the UK, Obama was relating too yesterday.
He was only showing grudgingly, in my assessment, his respect for the rapidly dying dis-united UK with a last minute brief visit here this afternoon. For what?
More troops for Afghanistan to help out the ever increasing numbers of young US service personnel d
44

we the people,

25/07/2008 13:05:02
in his speech he lauded the berlin airlift as an example of humanitarianism and international co-operation. how dissappointing then that he didn't draw the obvious contemporary analogy - GAZA. Time for an international effort to break the israeli blockade and get in the fuel, medicine and provisions the paople imprisoned there need. now that would be visionary and worthwhile. unfortunately he seems to be talking the talk whilst remaining in hock to the corporate interests and crypto-fascist u.s state like everyone else, republican or democrat, who has campaigned for the presidency (honourable exceptions jesse jackson, dennis kucinich).
45

,

25/07/2008 13:08:17
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46

Travis,

Chicago 25/07/2008 14:27:07
All I can say is WOW. I thought anyone one on the far side of the pond would be happy with Obama. Insted it looks like you trust the old war monger, who wants to stay in Iraq for another ten years. I would think with the UK still sending aid, you would also want a quick end to this war. That is why I read this is to get another perspective on the U.S. And sometimes I am surprised.
47

mike - across the pond,

news flash.... 25/07/2008 14:59:25
lets just consider some things here....

lets just say for a moment that McCain IS GWB-3....

and if W is indeed SOOOOO unpopular....

why is it a statistical dead heat?

why doesnt BO have a double digit lead throughout the country?

why have the polls been trending for McCain?
48

Gulliver,

Harare 25/07/2008 15:16:46
The imagery that glorified gunslinging men as "real men" in many western films in the 40s ,and subsequent movies like Rambo amongst others has created a major obsession with fighting and wars amongst SOME people American people. They might not be in the majority but unfortunately they are hold the reigns of power. Warmongers will thus continue to exercise their will on the rest of the world which better comply or else....!!!
49

Porry,

The Continent 25/07/2008 15:23:05
DER SPIEGEL, as quoted above, got it right: Our dear Berliners who are supposed to be especially bright (as myth has it), were simply used by an arrogant egoist. This man BO did not have any business giving a campaign speech in a foreign country. And as far as "Ich bin ein Berliner" goes that JFK has been loved for in Germany, already in the sixties Americans made fun of it, pointing out that in German a "Berliner" is not just a citizen of their capital, but a word for "doughnut" as well...
50

,

25/07/2008 15:31:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
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51

Hickory,

US 25/07/2008 15:59:32
Aye, this bird sings a good song. But, can he walk at
the same time? US politicians with a lot of flash usually have nothing else. It would be interesting to see who has their hand up this sock puppet.
52

Media 1,

cape town 25/07/2008 16:00:23
Barak Obama WILL WIN the American election!
Man this guy is good, what a statesman.
It is not normal to see American politicians speaking with such clarity and determination, passion and integrity.
Obama is an absolute pleasure to listen to, a breath of fresh air...
Boom boom, bomb bomb McCain must be shi$$ing himself!
53

DaughterofScotland,

Too far from Alba 25/07/2008 17:14:18
#19
Absolutely agree.

The biggest difference between Obama and any of the right-wingers? Obama will actually listen to others, and seek out those with expertise in different areas -- and LEARN from them. McCain only listens to Bush (and Bush listens to Cheney...).

To those who say "Obama doesn't have the Washington insiders' experience", I say "And that's a bad thing because...?"
54

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 17:18:23

Media 1 ~52,

The man wont be with us to win any election.
55

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 17:18:59

Media 1 ~52,

The man wont be with us to win any election.
56

Sonora,

North America 25/07/2008 17:19:17
#6 Germany

Right on target again. Your clarity of thought is refreshing after the bigoted comments by so many writers. These crude skeptics are quick to ignore the damage of the present US administration, and they display their lack of knowledge about Mr Obama, whose depth of understanding of America's past is one of his strengths, reinforcing his judgement, intelligence, and compassion. The US and the earth need a leader of this stature.
57

DaughterofScotland,

Too far from Alba 25/07/2008 17:24:44
Beautifully put, #56!
58

American,

25/07/2008 18:55:47
#35-bruhibs-I heard one reporter say that as many as a million people were there. BTW- If you heard him without his scriptwriters or coaches, you wouldn't say he sounds ok. I heard a snippet of him speaking when asked a question and he stumbled so bad that it was actually quite comical. Say what you want about bush (we all do), but at least he knows how many states are in the US and how long a presidency term is.
59

American,

25/07/2008 18:58:22
#56-sonora-you're quite comical too. Like I've said before--obama doesnt know how long a presidency term is and how many states there are!!!
60

American,

25/07/2008 19:02:27
#53-daughters-Hopefully you know more about scottish politics than American politics. mccain does not listen to bush. mccain is a closet democrat. mccain has voted against bush policies. mccain is a bad choice, and obama is an even worse choice for president.
61

American,

25/07/2008 19:04:02
#52-media-Trust me--mccain is not the only one who's shi$$ing himself.
62

mike - across the pond,

postmark... 25/07/2008 19:06:50
hmmm

what was stupid or arrogant about what I asked?

and speaking of stupid &/or arrogant... this coming from a chinaman?

usually I sit on the sidelines and think the folks who pick you you are out of line... but if you are going to pick fights with those who dont pick fights with you.... so be it...

wasnt it one of your countrymen who played "bumpercars" at 10000 feet with an american surveillance plane 7 years ago? he ended up dead in the deal didnt he? wouldnt that be the DEFINITION of stupid?

make sure you cast your ballot in the fall... we'll make sure to count yours double compared to all the other foreigners.... you know all the other ones that we dont give two hoots in a bucket what they think....
63

American,

25/07/2008 19:07:52
#47-mike-according to the polls I've seen, obama is still winning. mccain has lost some of his polling numbers. obamas confident he's going to be the president for the next "10" years (arrogant, cocky #@&*).
64

American,

25/07/2008 19:24:49
#46-travis-No one wants to stay in iraq longer than we have to, but if it takes 10 years-so be it. How long do you think we had troops overseas keeping the peace AFTER ww2 was over (my father was one of them). Besides, there is talk of possible withdrawals in the next year and a half (but of course, obama will get credit for the withdrawal).
BTW-You do realize there are other very important issues other than the iraq war. You might want to check out the mighty ones views, votes in regards to illegal immigrants (and benefits for them), gas prices, higher taxes, higher taxes for corporations (employers!!). He's calling for socialized medicine. Do a little research before you think that sounds like a good idea. And, what lib do you think he'll nominate for the supreme court if applicable? It is the libs (and one "moderate) on the supreme court who ruled that its ok for a developer to take away your land, property, and business (and give you a fraction of what its worth) to make condos, townhouse, and developments. A relative is involved with this kind of fight. She will loose her building, which has 25 small office practices, and she will loose a few apartments (which are occupied). People are not looking beyond iraq and in the meantime---things here are going in the wrong direction. The promise of "change" is nice, but it's not necessarily the right kind of "change" that is going on.
65

mike - across the pond,

daughter.... 25/07/2008 19:34:49
heres something for you to chew on....

Myth, Mccain doesnt listen... McCain is viewed as a liberal republican because he DOES listen... in conservative circles he is reviled BECAUSE he regularly "reaches across the aisle" partnering with Democrats on topics that true conservatives revile... he opposed tax cuts and has changed his stance BECAUSE he listens to economists who OVERWHELMINGLY state that raising taxes will FURTHER slow the economy.... he sponsored VERY liberal immigration reform bills and has CHANGED his views on them BECAUSE the MAJORITY of americans (right up to the uber-liberal democrats) oppose those views.
McCain supported VERY liberal energy policies, and has changed his support BECAUSE of the current situation regarding oil...

it is Obama doesnt listen...
No oil drilling offshore... even though we have skyrocketing oil prices and the chinese will be drilling in 2-3 years 70 miles off the coast of florida... and "offshore oil spills from drilling" is a MYTH... there's 10x more oil volume released into the oceans from seepage than there are from recreational watercraft... and 100x that from oil rigs & industrial spills

No Coal fired industries... even though we have more coal reserves than ANY country on the planet... AND even though with evolving technologies, we can sequester CO2 emissions making use of these reserves environmentally friendly... WHERE are you going to get the electricity to power your electric cars?

No Nuclear.... even though if its "green" you want, Nuclear is what you want to do it with... NO CO2 what-so-ever...

Health care.... BO pushes various plans with nefarious numbers... the 47 million number you hear... THAT number includes 10 million illegal immigrants.. 10 million illegal immigrants who when you ask BO directly says they will NOT be covered... WHAT is it BO... get your facts straight....

higher taxes... the FACT is that if you RAISE taxes those who pay those taxes have less
66

mike - across the pond,

daughter.... cont'd 25/07/2008 19:35:36
Higher taxes... the FACT is that if you RAISE taxes those who pay those taxes have less monies to buy services from those who make less monies.... the FACT is that the lower 50% of americans pay less than 3% of the federal revenues... the upper 10% pay 70% of the revenues... you want to FURTHER shift that burden?
67

Tobytoo,

Southington 25/07/2008 19:37:42
#16 DSA
I will shout it out for you I AM AMERICAN AND HAVE NOT LOST ANY FREEDOM IN THE LAST 8 YEARS.
68

mike - across the pond,

american.... 25/07/2008 20:02:52
obama, McCain... and the polls

the vapid majority of those out there... (or those who prey upon the vapid).... use some very questionable things to promote BO.... such as the idea that "if you dont vote for BO, you must be a racist"... that alone is enough for ME to vote the other way... but I'll keep my mind open for a bit longer... (but not so open that my brains fall out though - lol)

BO is the candidate of change... change like WHAT?
health care... we've LOOKED at this and rejected it
anti-oil.... we've LIVED this for the last 40 years, and this path is what has gotten us where we are...
anti-coal.... we've LIVED this for the last 30 years
anti-nuclear.... we've LIVED this for the last 30 years
emission free transportation.... we have achieved about 800% improvement in those technologies, and had about a 7x increase the funding of research of those technologies in the last 7 years...
banking and finance... liberal financial laws and rulings got us where we are...

what CHANGE are we looking at?

no really.... what IS the change?

now for the polls...
FACT BO's poll numbers are trendiing down... McCain... pretty flat...
currently the "optimistic" BO polls have him 4 points ahead
at BEST BO was 7 points ahead of McCain and that was 2 months ago...

FACT throughout the DNC primaries BO polls about 7-10 points ahead of the actual vote counts... the FACT is if this carries thru into the fall this puts him anywhere from 3 points behind, to TEN points behind (if you use the "dead heat" numbers and take 10 points off of those.)

my assertion is even IF americans indeed view McCain as a 3rd term of Bush.... AND think that is a BAD thing...

shouldnt BO be double digits ahead in the polls?
69

Muskrat,

25/07/2008 20:55:55
Obama: Hollywood comes to Europe, lots of glitter but not real gold.
70

Media 1,

cape town 25/07/2008 21:03:36
Haha! So many people on this thread are annoyed by Obama's success.
Well get used to it people, because the man is going to be the next leader of the United States of America.
Unless of course they wipe him out! Those neo cons wont be liking this success one iota!
71

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 21:46:41

Media ~1,

The beginning of your last sentence using the word:
"Unless"

That IS a what may very well happen, look at history.
72

henrymanchester,

UK 25/07/2008 23:25:15
Another self serving politician who will say anything to get elected and then enact all his personal vendettas against society.

When will the corrupt political leadership learn to treat us all as equals?

73

ScotLJM,

MI 26/07/2008 00:15:15
#6 Lynne has said it all, and I could not top that if I tried.

#52 Media 1.....If indeed you do live in Cape Town, then it should not make any difference to you if Obama becomes President of America, so no big deal to praise him. Should Obama succeed, I believe it will not be long until the fit hits the shan, and the breath of fresh air you refer to, will cause a whole different odor drifting across SA.
74

Carolyn 1,

26/07/2008 00:28:18
Oh Mon Deiu!, le Obamassiah did not parle vous Francais!

Mien Gott! He did not sprecken zie Deutsch!

The Elightened One has chided Americans for not speaking the native languages when we visit foreign countries!
Shame on Americans. Shame! Shame!
The Great Messiah actually shook his finger at us morons for not speaking French when in France.... He demands that we become multi-lingual!

Where was his speach spoken in French??

Where was his speach spoken in German??

Is it possible the Elightened One is just another big fat lieing say anything to be elected empty suit?

He demands that we do as he says, while he does what is best for Obama -just like every other politican.
75

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 26/07/2008 00:43:30
#22.. I would have given the source of those articles, it was not an oversite. I rarely site Jewish articles and sources because of the anti-semitism on here. I did say it was from articles I had recieved in emails.
It doesn't take decency to be prudent.
76

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 26/07/2008 00:49:36
#71..this is off topic..but there is a site you might be interested in...
breastcancer.org.
77

,

26/07/2008 02:55:41
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78

,

26/07/2008 03:20:53
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