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Council could lose more than £3m in road sign blunder

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Published Date:
15 September 2007
A SCOTTISH city council may be forced to write off millions of pounds in parking tickets because of a parking-sign blunder, it was revealed yesterday.
The massive claw-back in fines is facing Aberdeen City Council after Scotland's parking watchdog ruled that the authority had acted illegally by placing a sign warning motorists about the presence of a parking zone in the wrong place.

The city co
uncil erected notices bearing the words "ticket zone" below no-parking emblems on entrance signs for a controlled parking zone near the city centre. But Peter Royds, the parking adjudicator of the Scottish Parking Appeals Service, has ruled that the signs are unlawful, as the notices can only be legally displayed above the logo.

His ruling has left the door open to thousands of motorists in the city to appeal against fines. About 75,000 motorists a year are fined for illegal parking in Aberdeen and there are fears the authority might be forced to write off some of the £3.5 million owed in parking fines.

But yesterday, as city council officials were studying the ruling, leaders of the authority condemned the judgment as "silly" and "bureaucracy gone mad".

The Scotsman broke the news of the ruling to Kate Dean, the leader of the administration, in Brussels where she was on council business. "I have never heard anything so silly in all my life," she said. "I think this is taking the letter of the law to extremes.

"We have clear signage and I think it is petty, to say the least. However, we will need to look into it to ensure that we stay within the law."

Ms Dean added: "Parking penalties have never been seen a source of income. They are there as a deterrent to ensure that people do obey the parking rules. But, on the other hand, this is money we would have expected to come into our coffers. And we are not only looking at losing the money, we are also looking at having to change all the signage, another expense."

Kevin Stewart, the deputy leader of the council, said: "This is bureaucracy gone mad. The members of the adjudication board need their heads looked at, in my opinion.

"It is the kind of red tape that really gets on people's wick and this kind of silly judgment could cost councils up and down the land a lot of money."

The ruling was made by the appeals service after an Aberdeen motorist challenged a fine imposed last December after he parked on a single yellow line in Margaret Street.

The motorist claimed that the penalty charge notice was in breach of the Road Traffic Act introduced by the Westminster government in 1991.

The motorist argued that the signs at the entrance to the controlled parking zone in nearby Rose Street did not comply with the regulations, known as the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions, which stipulate the prescribed signs to indicate the entrance to a controlled parking zone.

In his ruling, Mr Royds states: "Photographic evidence shows the sign which is in place has the words 'ticket zone' underneath the no-parking roundel.

"That is not a permitted variation of the arrangements which prescribe that the words 'controlled zone' or 'ticket zone' must appear above the roundel. The arrangement on the sign in Rose Street is not only unauthorised but also confusing."

The council has 14 days in which to appeal.

A spokesman for the city council said: "We are considering the implications of the adjudication and it is too early to come to any firm conclusions."

But Neil Greig, director of the Advanced Motoring Institute, said the council should have ensured that the proper signs were in place.

He said: "They know what the regulations are; they are the experts and they should get it right. While it might seem a bit pedantic, these signs have to be strictly correct because we are talking about enforcing traffic orders."

A spokeswoman for the City of Edinburgh Council said: "All of our signs comply with this ruling. The writing is above the emblem on each sign."

A spokesman for Glasgow City Council said that while it was "sympathetic to Aberdeen City Council's position in this matter, Glasgow's signs comply with the appropriate legislation".

The Road Traffic Act 1991 brought about a number of key changes in the enforcement of parking regulations in Britain. Parking offences enforced by councils were decriminalised and brought within the civil enforcement system.

THE DIFFERENCE A DATE CAN MAKE

IN FEBRUARY of this year Edinburgh City Council cancelled £6.5 million of unpaid fines after the High Court in London ruled in favour of a driver who challenged a fine because the penalty notice did not include both the date of the offence and the date it was issued.

Unpaid parking fines totalling £300,000 were then written off last month by Glasgow City Council because of a similar legal error.

Aberdeen City Council is still considering what action to take over fines totalling more than £2.1 million after the ruling.

The Scottish councils' decision to write off the fines followed a successful appeal to the Scottish Parking Appeals Service by an Aberdeen motorist, which was based on the ruling in an action against Barnet Council in London.

The ruling stated that, to be valid, parking tickets must display the date the vehicle was seen and the date of issue.

Peter Royds, the Scottish Parking Appeals Service adjudicator, said a failure to display two dates "creates potential uncertainty" as to when the periods for payment of the penalty charge, or a reduced charge for early payment, begin and end.

The Road Traffic Act of 1991 says parking tickets must carry both dates because in London and other parts of the UK, a fine can be posted out later by officials who have used CCTV evidence.

Other Scottish councils, such as Dundee, and Perth and Kinross, say they are not affected by the ruling.



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1

Suck McCrunchie (the eighth),

Doomster Hill 15/09/2007 00:48:09

Another "legal" lottery.

2

Guga II,

Rockall 15/09/2007 02:04:37

More incompetence on the part of councils, and a win for the continually harassed motorists.

3

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 15/09/2007 03:11:11

-- Scotland's parking watchdog

We're so glad to see this example of non-specific state employment. Now we have a Government that replaces the previous gang of economic hit men kennt as the "executive" , we need a Puma to take charge of the collective kitty and be Minister for culture and lifelong fun and frolics. Me. Avanti Mac Aoidhean!

We build ships and generally fix anything that needs to be fixed. This thingmie needin' fixed is called Scotland and as evidenced on this forum is a nation apparently of GIRNERS. This is the one thing we don't allow on our boats. It could be punishable by death but leniency may (or may not) be in order. This leniency cannot be applied to the Scottish Office peeps who will all be sacked. G'dammit they are not a competent civil service, they are an Uncivil Service and an affront to our planet.

The vast sum of money saved I will put to good and purposeful uses straight away.

Next.

4

The Forgotten Princess,

Blacksburg 15/09/2007 03:30:17

Why not just lighten up some of the squabble by providing more free parking areas?

5

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 15/09/2007 04:42:26

Such is vacancy in the minds of Aberdeen councillors, if they "lightened up" they'd float away into the middle distance over Trumpie's new golf course. Cars and the sheepfolk of the north-east have never really mixed, driven or parked, for we reckon they are coming from different centuries.

The last time I needed to deliver a letter that very morning to Aberdeen Uni I borrowed a Scanie Artic from the pool not get any hassle or grief going through what they call a rush hour. She's big and very red so you don't get motorists sailing across your bows or nipping up the inside when you're about to swing her left. Though I suppose our Peugeot one and six would have done the job.

6

Alberto.,

15/09/2007 06:34:07

"Kevin Stewart, the deputy leader of the council, said: "This is bureaucracy gone mad. The members of the adjudication board need their heads looked at, in my opinion.
It is the kind of red tape that really gets on people's wick and this kind of silly judgment could cost councils up and down the land a lot of money."

I cannot help thinking that most people would consider it as 'incompetence' on the parts of the Councils concerned, and simply shows they are not up to what is becoming a simpler job than ever before, now that Brussels is calling the shots!

If Councils cannot follow what now appears to be a working day of following straight forward orders, but trying to play it their own way, for some 'illegal' method of financial gain from the public - seemingly by playing the glaringly obvious game of 'rule by fear, complexity and ignorance' over the public, for maximum monetary gain - regardless!

Now, caught out about their own seemingly devious, incompetent and 'slap happy' application of instructions, issued by the controlling administration on high above, regardless of the serious legal implications involved for offenders - they don't like it!

These 'slap happy' players should be penalised (sacked) accordingly - the electorate cannot afford them!

When Parking Wardens - or whatever, are equipped with cameras to assist in 'their financial gain war' with the motorist, and motorists are, as I seem to recall having read, fined for 'illegal' parking for being a centimetre or two 'over the line’ (that's the alleged official'legal line') and by necessity, presumably for legal requirements, is / has to be, supported by photographic evidence, it would seem somewhat of a childish remark by Kevin Stewart stating about 'Red Tape' getting on peoples wick!

Presumably he means the Councils wick, simply because it's not in their favour when such glaring errors are their fault!

Perhaps Mr Stewart should be reminde

7

Donaldtramp,

Aberdeen 15/09/2007 06:34:19

I find it very amusing to hear of a Council complaining about red tape and bureaucracy gone mad when a decision goes against them.

Its about time a Council was punished instead of the motorists who have been used as cash machines on 4 wheels by the Councils for a long-suffering time.

This has also shown up the great ineptitude of Councils to do anything correctly. No matter how much they protest they have been found to be guilty of issuing unlawful tickets in unlawfully signed areas.

The law of the land is there not only for the Council to bludgeon the motorist with fines and restrictions, these cases show that it can be used to protect motorists from the money grabbing Councils and hit back at them. If they are crying foul because of a motorist winning on a technicality isn't a couple of minutes over, a technicality? Just on a double yellow, a technicality?

Nope sorry,what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Remember this is also the Council who have let their bad debts spiral to a staggering £55.6million in unpaid rent and Council tax etc. (from press and journal) These folk are spending our tax! To paraphrase Kevin Stewart,deputy leader of the Council, "need their heads looked at, in my opinion"

8

Skull & Bones,

Fife 15/09/2007 07:28:48
9

donald a,

weegieland 15/09/2007 08:05:27

Cars still park on pay zones and makes no overall difference, apart from time wasting. It does nothing but create a bureaucracy. Time to stop parking charges, which only hit the marginal drivers and not those on high salaries, or company expenses.

10

TheyDontLikeItUpThem,

Aberdeen 15/09/2007 08:33:01

So they break the law it is admin gone mad
We break the law it's money in the pocket

It gets better and better, Aberdeen council are now saying that if you have a company car that the company is now responsible for the ticket as they are the initial hirer. Totally ignoring the onward hire to the actual keeper.

They are again ignoring the law on and mechanism built into the RTA 1991 that allows them to then follow the chain down to the responsible person.

So watch out company car holders, this should get overturned at adjudicators, but till then they will try and send the baliffs into your company (they have tried twice already with mine)

11

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 15/09/2007 09:36:23

So if the sign had been above the other sign it would have been fine?

This has to be one of the most idiotic judgements ever made.

12

TheyDontLikeItUpThem,

Aberdeen 15/09/2007 10:16:13

#11

Not really, the signs are prescribed by law for a reason. Signs are read top to bottom to give meaning, in a way the lower parts either enforce or clarify the above portion.

So writing at top you know it is a parking zone and the roundel then clarifies that ignoring the rules will mean contravention.

Roundel first on the other hand says no parking at all, end of story, the writing as part of an instructionn is now redundant as the roundel signified the end of instructions

13

I'm no really here,

15/09/2007 11:24:25

#12 Do you think we are computers. End-of-instruction program terminates. I'm with #11. Common Sense + Lawyers = Oxymoron.

14

Donaldtramp,

Aberdeen 15/09/2007 12:11:57

The law is the law. And they didn't follow the prescribed layout. Tough!
If I stayed over a pay and display ticket for 10 mins. I would get a fixed penalty notice and would have no comeback.
If I have to follow the law so do they....
The Council are fast enough to throw rules and regulations at the motorist. Nice to see them getting the regulations thrown back at them for a change.

15

lisa,

perth 15/09/2007 13:57:23

Councils have deliberately followed a range of practices which have established themselves as "enemies of the people", none more so than the universally unloved Perth and Kinross.

If the boot was on the other foot, you can be sure that the council would exploit every technicality to get the money. Council chief officers' bonuses and overseas travel are all sensitive to extra earnings like parking fines, and you can be sure that they would screw you without compunction.

16

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 15/09/2007 14:49:52

These councils appear to be getting more incompetent and downright stupider (?) by the day.

Who sits on them? - a bunch of semi-literate, stunned numpties who could not make an informed and intelligent decision if their fat asses depended on it.

17

Gilbie's Boy,

15/09/2007 15:47:24

Thanks for the insight, TimW1234.

Might I ask what contribution you have made to the advancement of humankind? Some folk revel in sitting on the sidelines sniping at others who at least have had the guts to stand for election - surely you have something to contribute? Or are you banned from commenting on Canadian websites?

The Councils in Scotland are vastly complex organisations and it would be astounding if things did NOT occasionally go wrong. Councillors represent the public, and are drawn from it - Council employees are human too. You must live in a wonderful place where, clearly, neither you or anyone else ever makes a mistake!!

Motorists seem to take a perverse delight in deliberately parking where they know they should not, then squealing like stuck pigs when they get caught. The fact that they only find out MUCH LATER that there might have been something wrong with the regulations or the signs demonstrates that the original fine or other penalty should "stick". In the main, parking restrictions are there to help road safety, or manage areas of peak demand.

In general terms, a motorist would park in the most dangerous of places if he could suggest "the yellow line was 2mm to thin so I was within my rights."

Aye, within their rights to demonstrate that they are selfish idiots. The "rights" brigade park in the "disabled" spaces in shopping centres, claiming that they are unenforceable because they are on private land - do you lot support them too? Or is the sense of knowing right from wrong somehow different?

Driving is not a "right" - it is a privilege granted by society, and it carries responsibilities with it.

GB

18

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 15/09/2007 18:06:03

#17

Since you asked I have edited and proofread books on business English for the Chinese market published "learned papers" to various professional societies on a variety of subjects germane to my PHD.

19

Food Bank,

Africa 15/09/2007 18:23:08

2 Guga II, Rockall

Why do you keep talking about having a wee willy on other threads? I for one do not care to read about your small genitals!

20

Donaldtramp,

Aberdeen 15/09/2007 21:12:44

Gilbies boy.
I take it you one of these parasitic leeches. Sorry, Did I just type that? Let me rephrase then, Council employees/councillor types?

The Councils in Scotland are vast money pits and I would be astounded if they ever did anything correctly never mind a stitch of work. With no one to answer as to how they spend the cash they have taken from locals. The whole idea is we better spend it or else next year it'll be cut.

Don't even get me started on the: average 3 weeks sick leave per person per year, jobs for life protected by unions who would not be out of place in the seventies, guaranteed final salary pensions paid for from Council tax and then there is the favourable retirement age unavailable to the private sector.
How much longer do you think the taxpayer can carry one third of the population in lazy public sector posts?

21

Suck McCrunchie (the eighth),

Doomster Hill 15/09/2007 21:25:13

18. TimW1234

Due to the lack of democracy in China - I believe Chinese ladies can get really excited at the thought of big elections.

22

Bert Postlethwaite,

Glasgow 16/09/2007 01:47:26

As usual, those speaking on behalf of Aberdeen council open their mouth without even knowing about the law behind the ruling. It seems that the law is something that everyone else apart from them should be subject to. The adjudicator, on the other hand, has read the law.
The law that the correct signs must be used has been in place for well over half a century. Other councils have managed to copy the prescribed design without much difficulty; how difficult is it, after all?
The Department for Transport even provide detailed drawings and specifications to help them.
Aberdeen chose to make up their own anyway; arrogance or incompetence, who knows which?
Remember this is these peoples' jobs (council lawyers and officials); they are not well meaning, but ignorant, amateurs, as are the councillors.
Rather than berating others, the councillors should be sacking a few officials.
The reason that the prescribed signs must be used is so that junked up councillors throughout the land don't just make up their own. Imagine if every council throughout the land were able to make up their own, and change them every time they felt like it.
We get a flavour of what would happen when you look at the town entry signs which councils in Scotland have been allowed to make up.
Some of them look like they were taken from a children's colouring book. North Lanarkshire being a particularly grotesque example.

Turning to Mr. Gilbie's Boy, as has already been pointed out, appears to have a vested interest, either as an offcial or a councillor.

"Councillors represent the public, and are drawn from it - Council employees are human too."
That's true; nobody's perfect. But they could have conceded their cock-up rather than blaming others, who, it would seem have actually read the legislation and legal authorities.

"The fact that they only find out MUCH LATER that there might have been something wrong with the regulation

23

Bert Postlethwaite,

Glasgow 16/09/2007 01:51:51

Continued.

"In the main, parking restrictions are there to help road safety, or manage areas of peak demand."
Perhaps Aberdeen is a beacon of light where that is the case, I do not know the city.
However the long suffering citizens of Glasgow (e.g. the recent controversy to the West of the city centre), Edinburgh and many others throughout the U.K. would disagree with you.

"In general terms, a motorist would park in the most dangerous of places if he could suggest "the yellow line was 2mm to thin so I was within my rights."
More nonsense; if the parking was dangerous, a more serious offence could be charged, and a defective yellow line would not be defence.
In any case, the legal authorities, which you obviously haven't read before pontificating, indicate that a minor error of a couple of millimetres would not be a defence.

"The "rights" brigade park in the "disabled" spaces in shopping centres, claiming that they are unenforceable because they are on private land ."
If that's the basis of their argument, they are wrong. The enforceability of disbaled bays on private land depends on various factors, but not just because it's on private land.

"Driving is not a "right" - it is a privilege granted by society, and it carries responsibilities with it."
That is your opinion, no more than that. Presumably, from the rest of your post, you are one who would seek to disburse that priviledge, without any tedious encumbrancies such as the law.
Of course it's a right, subject to having satisfied some measure of competence via the driving test, and that your licence to drive has not been withdrawn, either through the commision of certain offences (which no longer have to be related to driving), or at the whim of a policeman, who believe it or not, can now do so extra judicially. (No doubt the latter meets with your approval.)


 

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