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Don't panic, says Brown – as experts fear housing crash

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Published Date: 09 April 2008
GORDON BROWN yesterday insisted Britain's housing market crisis was "containable" despite a string of reports showing prices plummeting at their fastest rate since the 1990s' crash.
The Prime Minister sought to allay fears of a full-blown property slump after the country's biggest lender revealed an average price drop of 2.5 per cent during March – the biggest monthly fall since 1992.

And figures from the Edinburgh Solicitors' Property Centre showed the capital was not immune to the effects of the global credit-crunch, with price-growth at its lowest rate in 15 years.

Experts said that the gloomy data made it "much more likely" that the Bank of England would cut interest rates at a crucial meeting tomorrow, in a bid to ease a growing mortgage crisis. Figures showed the uptake of mortgages was at its lowest since records began, while the last mainstream lender to offer 100 per cent mortgages withdrew the product.

In yet another bad sign for the economy, the Nationwide building society said its own survey of consumer confidence recorded a new low.

Halifax, the UK's biggest mortgage lender, said house prices were now just 1.1 per cent higher than they were a year ago – the slowest rate of annual growth for 12 years and signifying a fall in real terms.

The group said homes had lost 1 per cent of their value during the first quarter of 2008, leaving the average UK property costing £191,556. Although Scotland saw an annual 5.3 per cent rise, the boost for the most recent quarter was just 0.2 per cent.

Andrew Rettie, a partner in Strutt and Parker, said drops north of the Border would be lower because Scotland had not experienced the same boom as certain parts of England over the last five years.

He said at the top end of the market – £1 million-plus – there was a lot of activity in Scotland, but this dropped off at the lower price-brackets. This is because those buyers at the lower end of the market need to borrow more cash and the lending facility is not always there because of the impact of the credit crunch on banks.

The health of the housing market plays an essential role in the overall wellbeing of the economy. When lenders tighten up their criteria and repayments are heavier, borrowers have less to spend elsewhere.

As unease deepened, Mr Brown urged caution, saying: "We've seen house prices rise by about 180 per cent over the last 10 years and they have risen by about 18 per cent over the last three years, so a 2.5 per cent fall is something that is containable."

However, analysts at Capital Economics said the overall downturn was likely to continue, with a drop of 5 per cent by the end of the year and a further 8 per cent reduction by the end of 2009.

Seema Shah, a property economist with the firm, said: "We are definitely seeing the start of a crash comparable to the one seen in the 1990s. This is a very difficult point for the housing market and there doesn't look like there is anything that can revive it at the moment. It is not currently our forecast for a full-blown recession but the risks are on that side rather than to a recovery."

Howard Archer, chief UK and European economist at Global Insight, said there was a "very real danger" of a drop of more than 20 per cent over the next couple of years. He said: "The overall impression is that house prices were buckling markedly under the substantial pressure from increased constraints and tighter lending conditions even before the latest escalation of the credit crunch."

He said this heightened the pressure on the Bank of England to cut interest rates by a further 0.25 per cent to 5 per cent.

The squeeze means that lenders are raising their rates, reducing the loan-to-value ratios and pulling deals that are attracting too much business.

This is reducing demand as people, particularly those with impaired credit histories, struggle to get a mortgage. It is also limiting the amount people can borrow.

Yesterday, Abbey, the final mainstream lender offering 100 per cent mortgages, confirmed it had axed the deals.

Bristol and West also dropped similar deals, and the Council of Mortgage Lenders reported that the number of mortgages taken out had fallen for the fourth month in a row during February. It had hit a new low of 49,000 – a drop of 30 per cent year on year.

The Nationwide consumer confidence index has sunk to the lowest level since it was first launched in May 2004.

As well as the weakening property market, uncertainty in the financial markets and concerns about the economy took their toll on consumer sentiment in the index.

Fionnuala Earley, Nationwide's chief economist, said: "Consumers may begin to feel more comfortable following the expected cut to rates this week, but it is unlikely that confidence will increase in the short term."

However, Martin Ellis, Halifax chief economist, called for calm, pointing out that a property crash was not necessarily imminent as there were fundamental differences between today's economic climate – with a strong labour market, low unemployment and a growing economy – and that of the 1990s.

He added that low interest rates and a shortage of new homes being built would also help to underpin current housing valuations, although the group expects the number of homes changing hands to fall by 30 per cent this year.

Meanwhile, the Bank of England said yesterday it would inject an extra £5 billion into money markets – as the International Monetary Fund warned the credit crunch could cost global financial institutions almost $1 trillion (£508 billion). The Bank will now offer £15 billion in next week's three-month "money auction", in its latest attempt to ease the credit squeeze.

The IMF predicted that losses worldwide could soar from around $193 billion (£98 billion) currently to $945 billion (£480 billion) or more.

The warning comes just days ahead of Washington talks among ministers from the Group of Seven (G7) where the credit crisis will be high on the agenda.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 April 2008 10:03 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Economic indicators
 
1

Tris,

09/04/2008 00:21:15

"Don't panic" says Bean Brown.... that great economic genius, with a degree in history.

I wouldn't trust him to make a cup of tea.
2

Angus Ogg,

09/04/2008 00:24:59
The parallels between John Major & Norman Lamont keep on coming.

Gordon Brown & Alistair Darling.

Heaven help the poor misguided creatures that took out 100% mortgage over the past year.

1990 wasn't pretty. Hope the housing problems aren't as bad as the last mess.

As for reassuring words from Gordy and Darling? The old Dad's Army routine of Corporal Jones losing the plot in front of Captain Mainwearing comes to mind...

DON'T PANIC, DON'T PANIC.
3

,

09/04/2008 00:26:46
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4

Matt there,

somewhere 09/04/2008 00:37:02
Deliberate? Or is it like one of those silent comedies, when a dog knocks a barrel over, which rolls down the hill, knocks a parked car, which careers down a steep hill, leaving mayhem and destruction in its wake.

Question is, what is Mr Brown? The dog? The barrel? Or the out-of-control car?
5

Incandescent,

09/04/2008 00:42:56
\3 Scott

It really is time you just shut up.
6

,

09/04/2008 01:03:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

,

09/04/2008 01:20:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
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8

gaffer,

Kamloops 09/04/2008 01:20:22
housing slumps are not really new , its a typical cycle that is and always will be something to expect, be honest and look at the reality , do you really think that some houses that were built by the councils or the corporations ( not looking at the private homes ) are really worth the money the have been rising up too,, my old house is a two story war time house that was built for $ 4000.00 , and to day is worth $ 360.000.00, excuse me, what happened over the last 60 years, wages didnt go up that much , so I am glad prices might fall , lets give the young people a chance to get on the property ladder , unless you are in the house flipping business , you will agree.
9

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 01:39:43
"DONT WORRY FOLKS, EATING 'BEEFBURGERS' DONT GIVE YOU,

'MAD-COW-DISEASE'!"
(govenment Quote in the 1980's)
10

BrianHill,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 01:57:46
Don't panic Captain Mainwaring. Sounds a bit like the footballing quote: The board are fully behind the manager, a week or two before the headline: Manager sacked.

Isn't Gordon looking tired in that photograph?
11

The Daleks,

Longmen 09/04/2008 03:44:00
#12

Is your last sentence a reference to a famous TV show?

Anyway, as Scott Webb points out, our current politicians are merely puppets.

Whilst I'm not big conspiracy theories, I do believe that today real power lies in boardrooms and in shadowy meetings convened by industrialists rather than in parliament.

The day of the independent nation state has pretty much gone.

What we as individuals have to do is realise that, and decide how to act if we want to have a say in what's happening around us.
12

Guga II,

Rockall 09/04/2008 03:55:12
Don't Panic. Don't Panic. Don't Panic.

The loathsome Maggie Broon will save us all; he'll think up even more stealth taxes so that instead of around 60% of your income going in tax, it'll be nearer 70%. Then, when you don't have any money left, you'll have nothing to worry about.

#6 Scott. Very interesting statistics on the Hootsmon. I wonder whether their downward spiral is due to people getting sick of their blatantly obvious bias towards the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party, and its North British Branch; their having people like Forfoulkesake on retainer to provide mindless garbage and propaganda; or their Comrade Editor and his Comrade Censors (Pravda & China Daily Branch) preventing us from commenting on a lot of important stories? Probably a combination of all three.

Keep up the good work, mate.
13

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta 09/04/2008 04:29:15
#1, #2,

Dudes U are sounding like US HS drop-outs. Who know nothing.

Don't U understand we live in a doomed capitalist system, based on supply and demand.

But this system ignores the growth in populations, and the planet has finite resources,

Happy Haggis Day

GC
14

donald,

glasgow 09/04/2008 04:42:37
If Broon says don't panic, then the best thing to do is - PANIC!
15

jamtart,

Beechboro 09/04/2008 06:28:45
biggest load a pi#h I have read in a long time.Some of you really need to get out more.
16

Guga II,

Rockall 09/04/2008 06:35:54
#17 So why do you bother reading it? Maybe you should get out more.
17

steve 1511,

aberdeen 09/04/2008 07:20:07
do we believe broon the cloon when he says inflation is 2% do we believe broon as he screws the poor with tax increases,do we believe broon on a vote for europe,we do not believe a word that comes out of broon or any labour minister or m p or m s p mouth NO
18

Reckless,

Corrupt EU 09/04/2008 07:23:05
If Mr Brown says so, then that's good enough for me.

Who does he think he is? He constantly lies and deceives. Now his approval rating has hit the lowest possible, and he's asking us to trust him.

He's a criminal liar, just like most of the other Neo Labour scum.
19

Iain fae Elgin,

09/04/2008 07:24:46
#6..."IT TELLS us what we should accept.."

You've just realised a newspaper has a political agenda?

That's a bit naive isn't it?


Wouldn't it be a boring world if everything you read you agreed with, every opinion in everyday life was just the same as yours. What would you do all day?
20

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 09/04/2008 07:26:28
A modern day tragedy, and we the public are the players...
21

Reckless,

EU Soviet 09/04/2008 07:32:46
#15

FYI, Scotland isn't a capitalist country. We don't have any industry or business worth mentioning. It's well known in the UK that Scotland is socialist.
22

Venachar,

09/04/2008 08:19:26
I thought Brown was supposed to be a Socialist.

A George Orwell socialist perhaps, more equal than others!

Fine for Broon, he gets his mortgage,tv licence etc paid by the mugs who vote labour. BTW he also gets his council tax paid as well. Did you notice the band it was in seemed unaturally low compared to normal people. Corrupt the whole bloody lot of them.

Should go back to when they did not pay MP's a penny, we'd see how many people went into politics then.
23

thinking,

Scotland 09/04/2008 08:28:49
It seems to me that house prices rise more when they are looked on as a form of income (as they have been over the past few years) instead of as a home
24

magnolia,

hungary 09/04/2008 09:04:04
Who cares? I love the way they keep saying it won't be like the early nineties, the 'criteria' is different. Who's kidding who? Hopefully these Estate Agents whose egos are inflated out of all proportions( especially Foxtons in London) will go out of business and give us back our High Streets!
25

Randan,

09/04/2008 09:04:18
Scott Webb
So what is your conspiracy theory then?
26

11+failed,

the pans 09/04/2008 09:19:19
I wonder if financial wizard Gordon thinks we should be buying gold at three times the price he sold the country's gold reserves.
27

Mr Grumpy,

Fife 09/04/2008 09:37:14
The drop in housing prices had to happen at some point or other. It is caused not by governments or politicians but by idiots with too much money, both to lend out recklessly and by those who are happy to pay reckless amounts for their houses. Just because you can afford to pay that much for a house doesn't mean you should. Look at the car market for example. You wouldn't walk into the showroom and offer to pay more than the windscreen price for a car, so why is a house any different?

There seems to be a lot of pride in being able to pay the extortionate price of property and builders / estate agents are just taking advantage of that, because they can. If it was a car, you'd be dead proud that you'd shopped around and saved £2000 off the price at your local stealership. If more people went into estate agents' offices and said that the asking price appears a bit high and then offered a realistic price, the market would soon sort itself out.

If more folk exercised their right not to pay inflated prices for things that clearly aren't worth the asking price, we wouldn't be in the sh*t we're in.
28

Memyself&I,

09/04/2008 09:42:58
No problem in Edinburgh.
Nor will there be any significant problems in Edinburgh.

Yesterdays Evening News had a front page headline about and Edinburgh housing market crash. What they were referring to was the fact that Edinburgh prices had RISEN at their slowest rate for years. They actually hadn't fallen at all.

Don't believe the papers or short term numbers. Keep an eye on the market from a more localised perspective.
House prices falling in London don't interest or worry me.
29

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 09/04/2008 09:46:20
Gordon Brown is a rubbish prime minister...All you home owners should never have voted for him.
30

Liz,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 10:00:25
#30
Yes, you keep telling yourself that. Property in Edinburgh is as vulnerable as anywhere else in the UK that has experienced a huge boom in prices.

31

shivago8,

livingston 09/04/2008 10:09:04
DONT PANIC,heard that expression many times in DADS ARMY.
wELL DONE CAPT BROON
32

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 10:15:10
#1:

I wouldn't trust him to run his own bath, let alone the country.

The man is a moron of the first order and should be facing criminal charges for the mismanagement of the economy.
33

Zedd,

Fife 09/04/2008 10:25:01
Is it not a good thing that house prices stop rising so fast? Capitalist speculators (not the govt by the way) have been driving up the market with their buy to let greediness. The banks have grossly mismanaged - probably too busy spending their bonuses. First time buyers cannot get a look in. Not fair. Well, that's the free market for you. I'd be happy to have less money tied up in houses generally and free it up for something more worthwhile.
34

Filosofo,

Kirkcaldy 09/04/2008 10:29:37
29, Mr Grumpy.
"It takes a lang spoon to sup with a Fifer" - but I have to say you are absolutely right.
I bought a flat in Kirkcaldy 8 years a go and paid 5% below asking price, then moved 6 years ago to another flat and paid spot on the price (I initially agreed subject to survey to pay 10% over the asking price, but then deducted costs of treating woodworm and other repairs and ended up paying the original "sticker" price.)
What's the secret?
Buy in December. Sellers want everything concluded before Christmas and start relaxing their greedy, outlandish demands for offers way over the price. There are fewer buyers, too, so less competition.
It's the only time of year when commonsense replaces avarice in the market.
35

Filosofo,

Kirkcaldy 09/04/2008 10:31:05
35, Zed.
Absolutely.
Again a Fifer hits it on the head.
I like living here!
36

Green,

Dundee 09/04/2008 10:41:13
A lot of the forthcoming price falls will be added to as tax on buy-to-let sales changed on April 5th. Instead of paying up to 40% in capital gains tax on properties held to let or flip now its gone down to 22%. Thanks Mer. Brown.

Lots of sellers have waited till now to put their properties on the market, and of course they can reduce their price using a bit of (as they see it their saved tax money) to get shot if buyers haggle,

This is another reason the boom is comimg to an abrupt and sticky end.


But all those posters who point out high prices were not good for everybody and in general we need realistic prices are right. Trouble is boom to bust is not good, and changing the tax system right now was not a good idea. The financial pages. OECD reports etc have been saying UK was in an unsustainable house price boom for three years, so its not as if Brown did'nt know.
37

Mr Grumpy,

Fife 09/04/2008 10:45:45
Nrs 36 & 37. I work in Fife. I originate from South Lanarkshire and now live in West Lothian, having spent a number of years in pre unification Germany. I have to say that I like Fife because it is a much more relaxed place than some in and around the Central Belt.

I feel really sorry for my eldest son, (and anyone else), who is getting married next year and is faced with finding somewhere to live near Peterborough where the average price of a one bedroom house is about £140,000. If things went back to the point when I got married, you could borrow up to three times your joint salary if you had a smallish deposit. That would set market maximums at around £90k for a 2 or 3 bed house. That would be much more sensible and affordable for everyone, including the government and the banks.

38

Green,

Dundee 09/04/2008 10:49:05
Fifeso

Good point I did the same thing, the sellers always run out of steam in Nov. Dec. Trouble is a oroportion of the decent properties have sold, even at ridiculous prices and a lot of what is left is mank.

Another thing; this comments column does not seem to be being moderated. Several posts which have no reasoning, but are just personal abuse have been left in. Where are you Scotsman? Do you want debate, discussion or are you happy to let individuals insult people on your pages?

Lets see if this post gets removed for criticising the Great Scotsman.
39

Angus Ogg,

09/04/2008 11:21:59
#15 GC "We're All Doomed",

If that's the case, then nobody is having a Happy Haggis Day.

Hey Dude, I'm still politely waiting for an answer to the question I asked you the other day?

If you in America have the freedom to live in an independent country which you took by killing British people in a revolution; then why are we not allowed to have a non-violent vote on whether to have independence or not, as proposed by a government that we fairly elected?

Dude you don't need a Hogh School Diploma to work out that that is only fair and right.

Happy Independence Day GC USA.
40

Angus Ogg,

09/04/2008 11:31:01
#39,

Your son will be able to buy a house well within his means within the next couple of years. Three free with each Lucky Bag (do they still have those?).

I hate to say it, but the banks are fast running out of money to lend. The mortgage famine has come. The central banks are reducing interest rates (America's Federal Interest Rate is now below inflation). Yet because the interbank lending system has collapsed it is fact: banks are refusing to lend to each other.

The banks have serious liquidity problems, the LIBOR rates are rocketing.

Worse, Gordy says DON'T PANIC, which is a sure fire way of having the stock market sheep in the City of London go rabid. That's our treat for the summer, a stock market crash, driven mainly by confidence evaporating and the herd losing all bottle.

The housing market will crash.

We will have a repeat of the 1990's.

The big hope is that that is all we will have. It could be far worse. The American Federal system is clearly doing unprecedented things to stave off a 1930's style Depression.

Maybe Galactic Cam Beul is right: we are all doomed.

41

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 09/04/2008 11:45:29
Is this why HBOS shares have continued to fall AFTER the FSA said they were going to hunt down the spreaders of rumours? If you have the lion's share of the mortgage market and that goes belly up it doesn't need much of a rumour to wake anybody up..

Is that market interference or what?
42

BOBO UMBONGONDO,

treehoose 09/04/2008 12:03:07
How come the British economy is based on hooses that canny go anywhere and glorified building societies are now the Banks that effect the economy cause awe thir risks ur oot in bricks an mortar, hooses should be kept oot o the equation, cause they dont produce anything but rerr big fat profits furra lenders who then plead poverty.
43

Booster,

09/04/2008 12:10:14
This is not "just" a housing crash in progress, there is a massive world wide economic maelstrom brewing up.

All caused by Bush failing to act appropriately in his first term of office. Indeed he and the Fed chairman stoked up a housing price bubble to postpone the need for action - thereby making the crisis all the worse.
And yes we followed America hook line and sinker.

Go check out videos in youtube - search for Peter Schiff. Note the early ones in circa 2006 and his predictions and analysis then and how he was panned by just about everyone.
The fall of the USA economy will drag down a lot of other economies that are not distanced enough and prepared as best the can be.
44

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 12:26:03
Money is a lie - we are taught from the beginning it has value - but these days the bank pretty much just prints whatever ... The Value of our currency now is based on our Debt - moreover our ability to pay that debt .... if folk do panic and withdraw their cash and are unable to pay back said debt then the currency has a lower value, leading to more printing so the government can slip out of trouble, Higher Interest rates and higher inflation - if they catch it in time then 'money' will have survived for the time being but one day.

Stock Market crashes throughout the ages have revealed market forces - shares whose value is all sizzle and no sausage eventually are worth nothing. Currency is much the same ...

What Chairman Gordon is actually saying is 'don't panic or you'll bring our house of cards down!'
45

sweet76,

09/04/2008 12:26:21
Can anyone correct me if I'm wrong but am I right in saying that this situation would never had happend if house price inflation had not benn stripped out of the RPI and renamed the Consumer Price Index.
If house price inflation had been considered by the Bank of England it would have been running at 15% and interest rates would have been increased accordingly to stop the economy over heatng.

I stand ready to be corrected.
46

Lion-O "Lord Of The ThunderCats,

09/04/2008 12:31:03
Is a drop in house prices not a GOOD thing then?

All I have been hearing lately is that house prices are so expensive that people were taking out mortgages for 5 and 6 times their salary just to get on the property ladder.

47

Fairfax,

09/04/2008 12:39:36
sweet76 (47): "am I right in saying that this situation would never had happend if house price inflation had not benn stripped out of the RPI and renamed the Consumer Price Index."

It's probably true that the property boom could have been constrained much earlier by raising interest rates, but that too would have had consequences, not the least of which might well have been a recession, caused partly by the higher cost of lending, and partly by the consequent higher value of Sterling.
48

WKKB,

09/04/2008 12:46:02
My daughter made a funny comment but hey... maybe not so far from the truth. She said, it's all the fault of shows like "Property Ladder" and "Homes Under the Hammer". No one can afford to just buy a house at a reasonable price to live in anymore... they all have to be wrecks that some developer has the funds to develop and sell on for an overexagerated price. When this happened in California 20 years ago there was talk of placing a cap on the number of new houses developers could purchase for resale.

#45, the first term of office for an American President is sometimes used up fixing problems left over from the previous administration. Clinton left behind a huge pile of economic problems for Bush to sort. I'm not saying Bush is anything more than he is but he did start with a shortfall. Also, I don't think any economy is prepared for what's going on. People are too inclined to spend, spend, spend when things are good. Even governments... look at the cost of the tram in Edinburgh... then when the famine hits no one has wheat in the silos.
49

Alfred E. Neuman,

09/04/2008 12:50:29
PANIC PANIC PANIC!

The industry is playing brinkanship and asking us (the taxpayers) to propr up this pyramid scheme.

A pyramid scheme does work making those at the top rich only until no-one stupid enough to enter on the first rung can be found.

All these schemes, shared equity etc, are not enough to entice new mugs and now they are going to forceably remove your money via the tax system to give to the banks to give to more mugs to prop up the pyramid scheme.

PANIC PANIC PANIC!

Do not touch property with a barge pole, it is in no-ones interests to have average house prices at 7 times the average income.
50

Arfur,

09/04/2008 12:53:43
Dont panic, dont panic.

Brown is just like those headless chickens from Dads Army.

Silly boy!
51

Number 6,

Germany 09/04/2008 13:04:45
What would this slack-jawed dribbiling idiot know about it?. The sooner we get rid of this awful bunch of lying incompitenets the better.
52

Jockdogma,

UK 09/04/2008 13:14:10
The housing market is unlikely to crash in the same manner as ealry nineties but I think we can expect a significant adjustment in certain areas. The market became overheated due to large injections of cheap money into the system and more relaxed lending criteria. The main point is that the short term high gains that were being made at the peak of the market will no longer be achieved as the banks review their lending criteria and valuation basis and will mean less money being injected. There will also be a level of lag where thise with significant gains from previous transactions stay active in the market before consolidating their position. Therefiore there is still underlying demand for property which will be sustained in the medium to long term but that will not be supported by large levels of finance and the market should adopt a more settled position. Those who have paid at the top of the market may have to wait to see any real gains on their property value
53

Boggle fey the Bog,

09/04/2008 13:14:17
51 Alfred E. Neuman,09/04/2008 12:50:29

The first post of yours that I have read that almost makes some sort of sense.

There may be hope for you yet, you Mad Magman ;-)

Just get off your loony Onionist horse and you may turn out fine.

54

Boab,

Glasgow 09/04/2008 13:25:25
If anyone's interested, I'll pay £120K for a flat in the West End or City Centre. Serious offer. Avoid the crash!
55

scully,

Colchester 09/04/2008 13:26:28


If there is a houseing crash . That means that a lot of young coules who took out large morgages. wont be able to sell there property for the ammount they need to clear there morgages. What Will They Do. For once they are out of the houseing market they will never be able to buy again. And they will have lost all there original deposit.They also wont be able to save again for another house.
56

scully,

Colchester 09/04/2008 13:28:54
56

by the end of the year you will have plenty of choice. why do you want to throw away you money now.
57

Brian Ferrari,

09/04/2008 13:32:55
Gordon Brown seems to think it's a positive thing that house prices have gone up 180% in 10 years. Why? Who benefits? Not anyone who is trying to move to a bigger place. Not anyone who doesn't own a home.

Of course, it does benefit the government in inheritance tax receipts. And people who own lots of property. And landowners.

Is this the most stupid man in Britain?
58

Memyself&I,

09/04/2008 13:50:55
#32,...no, its not.
59

Booster,

09/04/2008 13:55:51
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

Essential background information in an understandable format about our banking system and why it's near collapse is manifesting itself in the housing bubble and "credit crunch" we can see.
60

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 14:12:58
I should have added - when a politician says everything is OK then it's probably not!

Titanic's staff were telling everyone 'everything's ok' - once it was too late and everyone realised - the first class boys and girls with snug in the lifeboats barring one or two truly noble souls - and well you know the rest ...

Britain is screwed - too much credit, no industry, too many immigrants, a control freak political class that doesn't know it's backside from it's elbows and a public sector that costs Waaaayyy too much as well as being poisoned by Unions .... not to mention the populations increasing tendency for passing the buck instead of taking responsibility and always taking the easy option.

61

Tris,

09/04/2008 14:18:06


Aye Brown

... you built a castle made of sand..... and high tide is coming in.
62

Tris,

09/04/2008 14:19:54
62

You didn't mention greed and incompetence in management
63

,

09/04/2008 14:24:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
64

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 09/04/2008 15:31:21
#44
U wrote:
then why are we not allowed to have a non-violent vote on whether to have independence or not, as proposed by a government that we fairly elected?.
------------------------------------------------
NO one is stopping the Scots from having a vote to decide independence. ...Except the Scots themselves.

The majority of the Scots are not gungho for independence.

The majority of the English could not care less, and most English would be glad to rid themselves of the whiners in Scotland.

Independence will reduce Scotland to a pip squeak 3rd.world nation with the proverbial beggars bowl, that comes with such states.

Happy Haggis Day dude.

Bye the way ,There is a person unknown aping my name Galactic Cannibal on these posts recently.

GC



65

John Blackley,

Florida 09/04/2008 16:31:34
There was a time in my life when banks and other financial institutions seemed condescending - knowing, more than I, what was good for me and my finances. I resented that mightily.

For the past decade or more, the financial institutions' attitude seems to have been "If you can sign your name - or have someone do it for you - we'll lend you money." Millions of people borrowed money that, in all common sense, they should not and banks were complicit by lending money in millions of cases where they should not.

The result will be financial hardship for the borrowers and for millions of others as the banks pass along the effects of their mistakes to the market. While I resent the effects of the banks passing along their mistakes, I'm now glad that in days gone by they seemed condescending. I appear to have learned something by it.
66

Angus Ogg,

09/04/2008 17:53:42
#66 GC,

Beag air bheag !

We almost agree!

A vote shall be had.

Though I disagree with your calling Scotland a third world pipsqueak.

Is big better than small, or small better than big?

America is the biggest, yet it has a international loss of American and Iraqi life that is making the world grieve for both happless nations.

America is biggest, yet 18,000 Americans die each year because they have no access to healthcare.

America is biggest, yet it's economy is collapsing, and the country's banks are repossessing more of it's countrymen's homes than any other nation on earth.

Scotland is a small country, but you must be aware that in the past it has punched above it's weight: television, tarmacadam roads, telephone, anaesthetics, antibiotics.

Scotland has, in it's psyche a peculiar anti-backbiting trait that causes those that can, to excel, in order to say: "bu66er you" to those fellow Scots who said: "it cannot be done".

Daily Record political reporter Paul Sinclair was unusually accurate when he was questioned why London had a Scottish Raj governing the United Kingdom. His answer was that the political scene in Scotland was so visceral and vicious, London politics were like a gentleman's club, and so Scottish politicians tended to do well when in London and away from the bucket of crab style drag of the Scottish scene.
67

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 09/04/2008 18:56:26
Remember the days before solicitors' property centres had marketing managers? Remember the days before estate agents began breeding in Scotland. Remember the days when a house was a home and not a property?

Let's have a meltdown and get back to normal.

Tough titty on those who have overstretched themselves.
68

,

09/04/2008 19:37:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
69

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 09/04/2008 20:01:10
68
Angus Ogg,

Dude .

I did not call Scotland a pip squeak 3rd World State.

I was calling an Independent Scotland that .
There is no such thing as an independent country called Scotland.

And yes we have horrendous problems in the US.

But if we went broke ( most unlikely) all U guys would sink with the US including CHINA.


And bye the way I am not anti-Scots. I admire the Scots, but this SNP con will probably destroy Scotland as an independent state.

BIG is better in the Global economy.

BEWARE the SNP

Happy Haggis Day dude.

GC
70

rancid brown,

Gordon's true colours 09/04/2008 20:17:55
How to scrounge off the State, by Gordon Brown
Last updated at 23:37pm on 07.04.07
Add your view

During Mr Brown's student days (above), he produced a 200-page booklet, stating 'free money is available from social security'

Social security hand-outs should be regarded as "free money", the "so-called welfare State" should be used wherever possible and there's nothing wrong with squatting or being a "parasite".

These are views in a guide on how to scrounge off the State, "con" private firms and "use and abuse the system", published by the man set to become Prime Minister.

It is not a leaked copy of Gordon Brown's manifesto in his campaign to succeed Tony Blair, but a 200-page booklet produced as a socialist student leader in the Seventies, long before "stealth taxes" were invented.
71

Tris,

09/04/2008 20:29:31
72

EEEEEEEEK.... Brown was once a socialist??????????????
72

McX,

09/04/2008 20:31:34
#71 Dud, like I see you live in Murrieta, Ca isn't that like home to lots of drug cheats like Floyd Landis and Barry Bond?

Wow you must be ashamed to be living in such a place that fosters a philosophy of "It's ok to be a lying sleazeball cheat". Like is that your town motto, dud?

I see that it's a real historic place with, like some buildings dating back to the whoah the early 1970's. Dud that's like prehistoric.

Happy Steroid Day.


McX x
73

Haggis MacBagpipes,

Central Canada - ex Perth & Glesca' 10/04/2008 04:25:09
#68 - Angus Ogg.
The USA is bigger only by population. Canada is a larger country than the USA by area size.
--------------------------------------
Were you able to view the TV tonight, Prime Minister George Brown of the UK was on tv. The show was called,
"American Idol - The Pay Back" Mr Brown spoke on the subject of African people NOT having mosquito nets around their beds, as the people couldn't afford to buy them. Mr. Brown pledged $200,000 to the people so that everyone will have a mosquito net for their beds.
He doesn't seem to have any problem paying out that amount to other countries, while his own Old Age Pensioners in the UK need more money just to survive.
Cheers, Angus...
Haggis MacBagpipes™©
74

Haggis MacBagpipes,

Central Canada - ex Perth & Glesca' 10/04/2008 10:27:22
Correction to #75
The figure I mentioned that Mr Brown pledged should've read, £200,000 not Dollars($)

My 'umblest apologies...
Cheers,
Haggis MacBagpipes™©
75

Angus Ogg,

10/04/2008 11:58:21
#75 Hi HM,

No I didn't see the Youtube thing, but I think I will be following you to the geographically biggest country in the Americas.

I'm in Perth, Scotland, but looking to move to Nova Scotia as it is only a 5 1/2 commute direct from Glasgow Airport to Halfax Airport. So can pop back and forward in the same time it takes to drive from John O'Groats to Glasgow !

What do you reckon to NS ?

 

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