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HBOS is worst hit by meltdown in markets



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Published Date: 17 September 2008
HBOS was the biggest casualty yesterday when London's leading shares plunged to a three-year low in the aftermath of the Lehman Brothers collapse.
The Financial Services Authority (FSA) took the unusual step of issuing a statement supporting Edinburgh-based HBOS on a day when its shares dropped by 40 per cent before rallying.

Analysts suggested HBOS's woes were caused by City speculators making a "fast buck".

Meanwhile, the Bank of England pumped £20 billion into frozen money markets – following the £5 billion injected on Monday – as banks, fearing losses, raised lending rates to one another. During a second day of market turmoil, experts predicted banks would now be less willing to lend to one another and the result would cause customers further headaches.

And there were warnings that job losses in the financial sector – spearheaded by Lehman redundancies – would force the UK government to cut spending.

But experts told The Scotsman a lack of economic activity could prompt a fall in oil prices, which would lead to a drop in inflation and potentially let central banks make interest-rate cuts.

The FTSE 100 briefly fell below the 5,000 mark for the first time since June 2005 before recovering some ground later to close at 5,025.6 amid late-session hopes of a US government rescue for the insurance giant AIG, whose shares tumbled by 21 per cent yesterday.

AIG has already received a federal cash injection and its collapse would have a huge impact on financial markets and individual customers.

The US Federal Reserve left its key interest rates unchanged at 2 per cent last night, prompting a late rally on Wall Street.

There was hope for Lehmans last night with Barclays expected to buy some of its investment banking and trading operations.

The two days of FTSE losses – the worst for the index since July 2002 – have wiped £93 billion off the UK's leading shares.

HBOS eventually closed 22 per cent down and was also downgraded by a ratings agency. Analysts have said it needs to refinance more than £100 billion of funding in the coming months, all the more challenging after the blow to confidence from Lehman's demise.

Other banking casualties included Royal Bank of Scotland, which has written off billions in losses on investments linked to the US housing market. The NatWest parent saw shares slump 10 per cent.

The FSA said: "We can confirm, as HBOS has already stated, it has a strong capital base and continues to perform satisfactorily."

Bryan Johnston, of analysts Bell Lawrie, said the share price drop was down to traders trying to make a "fast buck". He also said there was a reluctance to lend because "no-one knows who owes what to whom".

David Bell, professor of economics at Stirling University, said: "I'm a little concerned that its share price has been pushed down by people wishing to make a very swift buck from that."

Concerns were also recently raised when it emerged that HBOS owned two firms – Grampian Funding and Mound Securitisation – which are believed to be tied to heavy mortgage debt. Prof Bell said: "The other long-term aspect of this is what effect it's going to have on government finances, which I suspect are going to be in considerable difficulty. The net result will be – maybe after the next election if it can be delayed until then – that a time will come when taxes will have to be raised or spending cut, or a combination of both. I suspect the political approach will be for reducing spending."

Mervyn King, the governor of the Bank of England, met Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, and Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, yesterday morning for "a routine and long-standing meeting".

Amid a day of gloom – which came after the investment bank Merrill Lynch sought a safe haven in a £28 billion takeover by Bank of America – there was news Barclays could bid for some parts of Lehman Brothers.

Nick McGregor, oil and gas analyst with Redmayne Bentley, said: "Anything that implies low economic activity, which all of this does really, is likely to lower the oil price further.

"In the long run, a low oil price will help because it gives central banks room for manoeuvre by cutting interest rates.

"I think it is probably, ironically, one of the few silver linings in this for consumers."

Another could be better savings products. Michelle Slade, at Moneyfacts.co.uk, said a number of high-interest savings accounts had been released in the past few days.

'Anyone with half a brain is worried' – bad day in the life of Scots bank

THE Saltires continued to fly proudly on the roof of HBOS's global headquarters yesterday, defiant in the Edinburgh downpour and in the financial panic carried on the winds whipping the capital.

But in the throats of investors, analysts and customers, that panic was rising as the HBOS share price, plagued by short-selling, fell to another yearly low.

Concerns over the health of the banking giant had been escalating since the fall of US investment Lehman Brothers earlier in the week.

And those concerns all came to rest on the shoulders of the HBOS chief executive and wonder kid, Andy Hornby.

The bank is so enamoured with the 41-year-old Oxford and Harvard graduate it paid him a £2 million bonus to stop him decamping to Boots as CEO.

But yesterday, HBOS refused a request for an interview with Mr Hornby or any of his fellow executives, or to give any details of the efforts the bank was making throughout the day to alleviate staff and shareholder fears.

Instead, a spokesman issued a rather bland statement

pointing out the bank is the UK's largest savings institution and has £258 billion of deposits, a 12 per cent increase in three months.

He added: "HBOS has a strong capital base. The group has the strongest capital ratio, a key measure of financial strength, of all the major UK domestic banks. HBOS is a strong bank."

Although the Financial Services Authority watchdog later took the unexpected step of endorsing the bank's funding, sources told The Scotsman there would likely have been panic among the 72,000 UK staff.

One banking insider said: "Deals slow down because people worry about their jobs but if the share price is through the floor, there is the extra worry they will go under."

He said that staff would be trying to complete transactions. Against this, competitors would be ratcheting up their efforts to snatch HBOS business, claiming they were in a better position to see a deal through to the end.

HE added: "It's spreading to Europe. We all thought Wall Street would keep everyone busy and now we are talking about HBOS and RBS."

As the share price plunged in the morning, analysts said this was likely to be a result of short-selling – traders offering stock they do not yet own at a price they hope will be higher than the share price when they buy.

Professor David Bell, of Stirling University, said there were "difficulties" at the bank and "clearly aspects of its portfolio are, at the moment, not very marketable".

Bryan Johnston, of the analysts Bell Lawrie, commented: "I think it's a speculative 'raid', prompted by short-sellers on the knowledge the company has to find funding.

"The hysterics are in charge of the asylum and it will continue for a day or two.I don't think its survival is in any doubt but its earnings profile may take a hard hit. There is always a risk but (collapse] is the least likely outcome."

Despite the calls for calm and the insistence from some quarters that yesterday's share price was merely a blip on the graph, HBOS's customers were still hurting – particularly in Edinburgh, where the Bank of Scotland is a cherished institution.

At the Morningside branch, one customer, retired John McTavish, said: "Anyone with half a brain is concerned.

"The bad news has been creeping out, but who knows how bad it will get. People are selling their shares in HBOS, but at the same time the company is supposed to have a very secure asset base."

Another pensioner, Jim Hamilton, said he had worked for HBOS and was given shares as a bonus. He has seen those shares plummet 75 per cent in a year.

He said: "This is a big blow to take and I am seriously worried as I have not only lost a huge chunk of my share value, but I also have other investments with the company.

"I'm concerned about my bank pension and so will each and every other bank pensioner. But I haven't taken my money out of HBOS because where else should I put it?"

There was also anger. Margaret Souness, a nanny from East Lothian, said the crisis was "the fault of the greedy banks, who are gambling with other people's money".

And Nick Williamson, a 48-year-old management consultant, said: "The banks have overstretched themselves and completely mucked up the whole situation.

"When Halifax and Bank of Scotland merged, they had the wrong management team in charge."

Professor Robin Browning, a former general manager of the Bank of Scotland, said no-one could have foreseen the dramatic impact on share price of the decisions of the past five years. He said: "I am never enthusiastic about the merger of Halifax and Bank of Scotland. I thought it was a marriage of convenience. It's very easy to be wise after the event, but I think the concerns I and others had at the time have borne fruit.

"It is also easy for the current senior people in banks – not just HBOS – to point the finger at the worldwide financial catastrophe facing so many of them.

"But, at the end of the day, although they are maybe partially victims of external circumstances, it was they who took the decision to make credit so easy, and perhaps to the point of taking it to reckless levels."

THERE are more than two million private shareholders in HBOS – the biggest private shareholder base in the UK – and they have already had their loyalty tested this year.

They were offered the chance to buy into a £4 billion rights issue. By the time of the deadline, the share price had dropped well below the offer price, leaving the underwriters to pick up the tab.

Prof Bell said: "It's very difficult to say if they would have to look for finance again.

"I don't think we will see many takeovers for a while because potential predators will themselves be scared about the content of the portfolio. It is partly because it's difficult to ascertain the true underlying position."

While Mr Hornby and his fellow bank chiefs have faced accusations of fuelling the crisis, a collapse of HBOS is good news for no-one.

Profit before tax at HBOS was £5,708 million in 2007, up 3 per cent from £5,537 million in 2006. In 2007, the UK Exchequer received a total of £1,656 million in tax from HBOS and its staff – enough to pay the yearly salaries of more than 46,500 secondary teachers.

• Additional reporting by Ben Bailey.


The full article contains 1884 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Charles Linskaill,

,Feeling sorry for DYW, it was a NO! :( 17/09/2008 00:24:08
At one point shares hit 97pence for about 20minutes, a pal paid over £7.00 per share not so long ago! :(

I think they settled about £1.77.
2

Royster,

17/09/2008 00:36:01
I thought HBOS and the high oil prices were going to be the driver of a new independent Scotland. Oh wel, good job we're in the union.
3

Edward,

17/09/2008 00:37:58
No apparent rhyme or reason for the sustained attack on HBOS, can only be put down to spiv dealers in the city aiming to make a killing
4

,

17/09/2008 00:40:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 17/09/2008 00:58:27
I realised that the Bank of Scotland was in a bad way when the barman put my Bank of Scotland tenner through his scanner and said , "I canna take that one it's genuine."
6

EPS,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 00:58:36
Dealers now have too much power, and legislation is needed to prevent them making huge profits at the expense of the national economy by manipulating the market.
7

drunken proffet,

Tassy 17/09/2008 01:15:46
A few years ago I missed a chance to buy Bank of Scotland shares for 19/6. It looks as if I may get a second go at it.
8

GKG,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 01:19:04
Its time to pop down to my local HBOS and remove my money, before the bank collapses, (and although the government has assured that this wont happen, look what happened on Monday, with the Lehman Brothers, which had been in business for 153 years, I bet the US government said it would not have happen to them).
HBOS have gambled and lost, the money they raised from their rights issue earlier this year has gone. I don't want HBOS to gamble with my savings!
9

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 01:57:13
GKG ~9,

"Its time to pop down to my local HBOS and remove my money"


TOO DAMMED RIGHT!

Unless you are prepared to 'Gamble' and maybe loose all you have left with this Bank.

I don't think they will collapse, they might pull-out, but things are looking very grim, food prices, fuel prices and NO resolve, no-one can afford, not to watch every penny these days, better to 'par-on-caution' the Winter ahead maybe very bleak indeed!
10

Royster,

17/09/2008 03:16:10
*5 Edward baby, Just another a nail in the SNP's vision for an independent Scotland I'm afraid. The UK has a broad economy which is why it can withstand shocks like this. An independent Scotland relying on oil (down 33% in 2 months) and HBOS (down 40% in a day) would be up the proverbial creek. It would be cap in hand to the exchequer in London for an emergency loan from England.
11

Julian.,

edinburgh 17/09/2008 03:52:54
#9 and #10,

Do you guys have more than £35,000 in savings at HBOS? Because that's how much your savings are guaranteed for. If you don't then you 2 are typical of the troublemakers who are making this problem a whole lot worse.

#5 Edward,

How do you know he's English?
12

Ursus arctos horribilis,

17/09/2008 04:02:48
And what exactly is the British Government doing while the economy is going into meltdown-twiddling their thumbs with their heads stuck firmly up their own erses!


Good news is that the Fed has come to the rescue of AIG and Wall St staged a recovery- so LSE should follow suite tomorrow and pressure will be relieved-until the next time! As for HBOS-the vultures are circling overhead-and they smell blood-the Bank has gone down-hill ever since the take-over by Halifax.
13

MacHoolahan,

York 17/09/2008 04:20:09
Julian, how do you know Edward's not English?

He's busy being a hilarious stereotype, for us from south of the border. Fuggin Anglash!! etc... I'd take exception.

Seriously for the rest though, I'm not sure either of our charming countries are blameless, or likely to leave the field unbloodied. Used to work on contracts for BOS and RBOS and their oh-so-clever bankers have been playing the same game as all the rest - cross-trading in other banks debts, shares and re-packaged derivatives.

It's the ultimate navel-gazing disaster as far as I can tell.

Which is where I came in.
14

Pender Paul,

Pender Island 17/09/2008 04:38:50
#13--How wrong you are! The Americans are in love with free enterprise. In a free market economy you might make a profit, you might take a loss. Bankruptcy is the invisible hand of the marketplace punishing poor management. Free enterprise can't work as long as some namby-pamby politician digs deep in the public purse to bail out every poorly run corporation. Let AIG sink, let HBOS sink, let General Motors sink. Others will soon fill the void left by the bankrupts and life will continue apace.
15

W Smith,

Middle East 17/09/2008 04:40:38
Alex Salmond's friend George Galloway, the Mercedes driving socialist, made half a million pounds profit from selling his house in London AT THE RIGHT TIME!

How many MSPs, both Labour and SNP, enjoyed watching the values of their Edinburgh property soar and were too inoxicated by the property boom to protest against the lending practices of the banks?

Sorry folks - I don't buy this theory that only the banks were to blame seeing so many politicians and journalists in the UK are landlords who own numerous properties.
16

Ursus arctos horribilis,

17/09/2008 04:59:29
#14 The whole FS industry is a pack of cards-cross-trading in theory is supposedly done to diversify risk but more often is done to generate generous commissions and bonuses-you scratch my back....

This whole crisis stems from the cheap money that Greenspan promoted through his low interest rate policy that generated a bubble in US (and UK ) asset values to attract foregn investment to combat the fundamental trade imbalances and the huge deficit in the US balance of payments. Ultimately the US (and UK as Brown copied Greenspan)has been living beyond its means for the past 20 years and the chickens are now coming home.

During this period of low interest creative bankers in the US- always looking for new ways to make their bonuses -needed to find new ways to make money at higher rates of return and financially engineered property based investment products (CDO)Collaterised Debt Obligations's offering higher returns-(bankers and other so-called experts really should have understood the reason why-ie greater inherrent risk-as many of the underlying asset loans were sub-standard.

At the end of the day the bankers and hedge funds -those still with jobs-will still make their obscene bonuses-at the expense of Joe Public who will find his pension worthless and standard of living -if he still has a job-going down the chuggie.
17

Ursus arctos horribilis,

17/09/2008 05:27:49
315 I am not sure where you get the idea that I am anti-free market-however the markets cannot always be left to their own devices which is why we have Central Banks nor can they self-regulate as there are too many crooks ready to take advantage.

As for the land of free enterprise the good old US-well the FED does not appear to share your views as they appreciate the ramifications of letting AIG go bust would truly be catastrophic-hence the $85 billion baill-out. To be blunt if the banking system is allowed to go to the wall which would be the result of what you suggest there would be no economy -free or otherwise -left-at least not for a number of years until regeneration occurred-that is simply too high a price to pay.
18

Pilrig.,

Livingston 17/09/2008 06:05:25
3 - and with Broon at the helm ? : )
19

Pender Paul,

Pender Island 17/09/2008 06:20:44
Interesting how the US and the UK can always find money to wage war and bail out free enterprise, but when it comes to the really important stuff, like health, education and social programs, suddenly the well is dry. Methinks this is just another 'manufactured crisis' to ensure the rich stay rich and the working class gets to pay the bills.
20

Royster,

17/09/2008 06:44:03
#20. I'm surprised the US doesn't grab the oil in Iraq to pay for all these bailouts. It's not as if the Iraqis are using it or anything is it? Just going to waste as far as I can see.
21

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 17/09/2008 07:09:30
HBOS cannot be compared to Lehman Bros, one is sound as a pound and the other was built on quicksand. Buy now while stocks are CHEAP?
22

,

17/09/2008 07:12:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta. for WAR VOTE McCain. 17/09/2008 07:22:29
Hey all U squawking Dudes.

Remember when the US farts U dudes get diarrhea. And so do the rest of the world.

Our American Dream (The American Dream) is nothing more than GREED.

Sadly the rest of the world trys to follow the American Dream

"Live now , Pay later"...if u are able to.

And quit Ur whinning

Have a nice Day Dudes.

GC

24

PJ Walker,

East Lothian 17/09/2008 07:51:17
Why doesn't the article mention the dire situation with RBS? Share price 189 from 730 one year ago?
Goodwin must go-spending £12 billion of the bank's own money buying ABN Amro at the worst time (and highest price) possibe.
25

A Crofter,

Western Isles 17/09/2008 07:55:25
Wot a wunch of bankers. Trebles and seven-figure bonuses all round!
26

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 17/09/2008 07:59:51
HBOS will not be allowed to fail. It's too important.
27

Boy Wonder,

17/09/2008 08:01:29
Chuckles Linskaill might just be right in keeping his money with the Bank of Mattress.

Time to redraw the family financial map I think!
28

Nell,

The Preservation Hall 17/09/2008 08:03:48
No. 20:- Spot on. And isn't the woman in the picture doing a Frank Spencer impersonation?
29

PJ Walker,

East Lothian 17/09/2008 08:15:09
Dave,
HSBC is above RBS; well above
30

big is the new small,

17/09/2008 08:42:34
#11 Royston

fair enough oil prices are down in the past few months but they're up 81% over the past 12 months.

onwards to independence...........
31

PJ Walker,

East Lothian 17/09/2008 09:02:02
#32
Yes, 'HS' refers to Hong Kong & Shanghai, the original name coined in the late 1800's. The new HSBC brand & logo keeps the acronym but the group is 100% headquarered in the UK. After the acquisition of Midland in '87, the bank was completely re-branded. It is perhaps useful to know what HS stands for, but it matters very little in terms of HSBC being the UK's, Europe's and in fact, the world's # 1 bank, as ranked by the Economist (Tier 1 Capital)
As for being totally indigenous, sorry, many folk I know who work for RBS are foreign, even English!
No aplogy forthcoming
To addres your complacency that RBS used its own money for the write-downs. Can I ask what you suppose they intend to do when their rapidy dwindling funds dry up? With a 1st half yearly loss of £700 million, I suggest that this will happen sooner rather than later
32

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 09:03:43
22 Evan
How can you be so sure that HBOS is sound. One of the problems associated with the collapse of Lehman Bros is that banks all over the world have all kinds of deals and loan arrangements etc. This means that other banks are exposed to Lehman's failure. The accountants dealing with the bankruptry say it could take years to sort it all out. We do not know, at this stage, whether HBOS or RBS are exposed in this way but I wouldn't put any bets against it.
33

Scimitar,

17/09/2008 09:03:44
This bank went down the tubes when it merged. Overnight it went from a trusted and esteemed outfit to the retail equivalent of a Rag-and-Bone man. Who can forget those cringeworthy adverts, their 20 x savings rate horsesh*t, their overcharging rIp-off's.
34

St Andrew,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 09:04:01
There is nothing wrong with HBOS or the other companies who's shares took a dive. Its the share traders gambling on everyones future depending on the mood they wake up with that is the problem.
35

FTH22inarow,

17/09/2008 09:10:30
just heard they're going to merge with lloyds! wtf
36

Edward,

17/09/2008 09:10:49
Now established that the drop in sare values has nothing to do with the Banks in Scotland themselves, but is down to traders (I would call them crooks) in London (Barclays perhaps) ding what is called 'short selling' that is borrowing shares fom institutes and selling off a low prices driving the share price down, thn no doubt buying back at the cheaper rate and handing back to the institutes they 'borowed' them from
and making a packet in the process.
This is now being widely reported on the News with calls for the FSA to take action against those instigating the short selling.
Frankly , personally speaking I think the FSA should identify and arrest those responsible
37

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 09:10:50
29 Dave
Please read post 35. How can you be so complacent about RBS. There could be all kinds of debris in their takeover of ABN Amro. RBS also has significant operations in the US - could be more skeletons in the closet there.
38

The Strategist,

17/09/2008 09:11:15
Story now is that HBOS & Lloyds are merging!!
39

James, Edinburgh,

17/09/2008 09:11:46
Always keep calm in a stock exchange storm. Investments are a long term proposition. There are too many posters ignorant of the ways of the markets putting themselves forward as experts. This is the sort of talk I expect to hear over a bar counter.
40

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 09:18:08
39 Edward
What are you trying to say? That Barclay's in London has launched some kind of conspiracy to stuff HBOS and RBS? If you knew anything about how the banks you would know that Barclays has a major share trading operation in Glasgow while the majority of employees of both RBS and HBOS work in England (including of course a large number in London)
41

PJ Walker,

East Lothian 17/09/2008 09:21:09
RBS share price down 17 points in the first 40 minutes of trading. Now 172, compared to 758 in May 2007
Don't panic, they'll be fine!!! :)
42

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 17/09/2008 09:21:28
I agree arrests should be made , how many young comission-driven morons sold products which they knew customers would never able to repay ? This is fraud .
43

FTH22inarow,

17/09/2008 09:24:55
Surely this signals the end of the Free Market economy, this cannot be allowed to happen again, There's going to years of misery ahead!
44

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 17/09/2008 09:31:39
HBOS 88 pence . This is CRIMINAL .
45

JayJay,

Right here 17/09/2008 09:31:52
It makes me laugh when the sage heads from PWC nod wisely and say that it could take "years" to unravel Lehmans.
Pardon me while I gag!
These guys are as much part of the problem as the rest of the spivs in the city. I seem to recall the mightly firm of Arthur Anderson assisting the web of deceit that was Enron. Not once did it occur to them to do their job, expose sharp practice and save ordinary shareholders and the wider market from the excesses of a bunch of fraudsters.
So what have PWC, Ernst & Young, Deloitte et al been up to as the financial markets have charged into dodgy transactions? Shouting from the rooftops, issuing dire warnings of financial collapse pending, or taking handsome fees and doing hee haw. We all know the answer to that.
The only certainty is that these accountants will switch hats, become "insolvency practitioners" and cream in vast fees. It would be nice to think that, just once, they might advise rather than issue fee notes.
46

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 09:33:34
46 fth22inarow
Do you think that the countries in the developed world will all suddenly embrace socialist, collectivist, state controlled economic models?
47

FTH22inarow,

17/09/2008 09:37:04
49 no, but i feel more regulation is required to ensure this doesn't happen again, we returned to the policies of the 1920's and guess what the same has happened again, all due to the greed of a few, now all but these few will suffer.
48

The Strategist,

17/09/2008 09:37:17
HBOS now just under 200p...

If this Lloyds/HBOS merger (which is sounding more like a Lloyds buyout) goes ahead then it would provide a wonderful opportunity to create a new regional bank in Scotland that is owned by the people of Scotland not the City of London.
49

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 17/09/2008 09:38:09
Looks like HBOS have been forced into merger talks with Lloyds.

Theory HBOS has been a victim of "short selling" by the sharks in the stock market, making money by betting on by how much a share price will fall.

This should be made illegal.
50

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 09:43:46
51 The Strategist
The only way of ensuring that this would be owned by the people of Scotland would be to nationalise it but the vast majority of HBOS and Lloyds operations are in the rest of the UK. Anyway HBOS is not owned by the city of London. It is owned by shareholders from all over the world - the same applies to Lloyds. Your suggestion does not make any sense.
51

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 09:52:34
50 FTH22inarow
I think it's pretty much a sure fire thing that regulation will be tightened up. Apparently one of the problems was that investment banks like Lehmans were allowed to borrow sums far in excess of their assets - that will almost certainly be restricted. Problems could arise though if not all countries tighten up. The US and the UK probably will but this still leaves the possibility of cowboy operations starting up in another country with less rigid regulations. This already happens on a relatively small scale with operations in various Carribean islands. The danger is that if countries like the US and the UK overreact and go to far in imposing new regulations more of these alternative operations may flourish - beware.
52

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 17/09/2008 09:54:24
Apparently Lloys TSB and HBOS are in an advanced stage of merger talks. Did Lloyds drive the price of HBOS shares down so they could pick it up cheap?
53

FTH22inarow,

17/09/2008 09:57:10
57 no S**t Sherlock
56 surely we should then not allow these companies to trade in USA/GB still a big chunk of the worlds economy
54

Clive Hamblin,

Sussex 17/09/2008 10:00:01
It's about time that some one - unlikely to be anyone in either the present English or Scots Governments - forcefully reminded the banks (all of them) that they are the financial world's servants; not its masters. The only funds they have are those entrusted them by their cunstomers; they have none of their own.

Having said that, I wonder if they'll take much notice.
55

The Strategist,

17/09/2008 10:03:12
#55

It would be perfectly feasible for the Scottish councils to set up and operate a new bank which could be operated on a not for profit basis where the "surplus" it generates is used for both growing the business and investing within - initially at least - Scotland only.

56

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 10:15:16
58 FTH22inarow
You may be able to stop them operating in US/UK but you would not be able to stop people or institutions from the US/UK and other countries investing money there. You would also not be able to stop them buying assets worldwide. That, whether we like it or not, is the way the world is now. Markets are, in effect, global and it is difficult to isolate any "rogue" operation completely.
57

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 10:20:15
61 The Strategist
Personally, I think this would be a disaster. If a bank were to be run by councils it would make decisions for political rather the sound financial reasons. Also, look at the state of Aberdeen City Council. Would you let people such as these be in charge of a bank? The prospect is horrifying.
58

Mop,

*********** 17/09/2008 10:28:59
I see all the panic merchants are starting again,unless you have savings of more than £35,000(which I certainly dont)you are protected by law.This is what happened to Northern Rock,a whispering campaign started then everyone panicked and ran down to draw out their money.
Ironically Northern Rock is one of the safest places to have your money now.

Honestly,folks this will get worse before it gets better but I hope the financial institutions learn from this and dont lend all over the place to folk who cannot afford to pay back!I think this has caused much of the problems we are seeing,I remember reading something years back which said we had all been living way above our means for years.

I personally think HBOS will ride the storm,esp if it merges with Lloyds TSB.

I certainly think we are correct to be concerned and to monitor the situation closely but hold onto your hats we are heading for a bumpy ride!
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Sile,

Planet Merry go Round Earth 17/09/2008 19:11:59
Well just heard it on the radio HBOS Bought out by Lloyds. how ever did that happen Bank of Scotland owned by an English Bank OMG we are all doomed..;-(
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Jambo Dave,

Edinburgh 17/09/2008 19:24:30
70/Sorry to have to tell you this BoS is an English bank.They tried hide what when it happend but it was a buy out.We were sold down the river then and chickens coming home and all that.
My big concern is the poor souls who work for them whos jobs are on the line.They should storm the board rooms and lynch the @rseholes in senior managment ,they are a disgrace and should be stripped of all pension rights
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Here Today HBOS Tomorrow,

17/09/2008 20:49:48
I am with you Jambo. I hope the HBOS directors really suffer for this, they should all be bankrupted as a result. Also I hope they will be subject to public humiliation by way of protests outside the HQ and their homes.

 

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