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1

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

11/10/2009 22:32:44

No, a vote for the Nats is a vote for a bunch of lying, incompetent, treasonable opportunists.

Anyone wishing to evict a Labour MP should vote for whichever unionist candidate is best placet to do so.
2

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

11/10/2009 22:37:55
Or even "placed".
3

Justin Timbercake,

11/10/2009 23:07:32
Mr Salmond also vowed to act responsibly in the event of a hung parliament.
-----------------------------------------------

Dear oh Dear.

Can you imagine?

This from the guy who posed with Maradona 'Hand of God' poster.

This from the guy that used taxpayer's money in a forlorn attempt to impeach Tony Blair.

Salmond acting responsibly?

That will be a first.
4

JaF,

12/10/2009 00:09:07
#3:JT:My friend as usual your are spot on with your in depth analysis."Your no fake Timbermake"
5

Punta Prima,

BALERNO 12/10/2009 00:12:18
Isn't it surprising how the first three comments are put in before the paper has even gone online. It is obvious that the two people in question are employees of this paper or have been given special rights to post anti SNP propaganda before any one else can even read the article.
This "paper" plumbing knew depths daily.
6

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 12/10/2009 00:17:06
The whole basis for this Labour bleat is that they actually have a chance of winning the next election.

Perhaps the Organ Grinder should change the music so that the monkeys have a chance to dance to a different tune.
7

Fifi la Bonbon,

12/10/2009 00:21:39
Iain Gray has a point. Mister Salmond has made it clear that he is going to instruct the nationalist MPs in the Commons to align themselves with the Tories, and goodness only knows what filthy deals he's constructing behind the scenes with the Bullingdon Club. I wouldn't be surprised if his summer reading included books about the Hitler Soviet Pact.

One thing is certain, though. No cybernat or nationalist party activist will dare to utter a cheep of protest about any of this. Instead, we can expect unlimited praise for the Great Helmsman as he sells out our country to the Tories. Again.
8

Curley Bill,

12/10/2009 00:23:12
Only in Labour LaLa Land could a vote in Scotland's interests be a vote against Scotland's interests.
This fits in nicely with other LaLa statements like:
'The best way to save people's lives is to close A&E depts.' - Ian Gray. And,
'The so-called £5million cut is actually an increase.' - Andy Kerr. Also,
'I've lived in this constituency all my life.' - Meg Currant.
9

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 12/10/2009 00:23:23
#5
No, they anti-SNP trolls (possibly aided and abetted by this paper, as certainly no action is taken against them) and are so desperate to get in first they sit and play with their computer dates to hack the system.
10

redcliffe62,

12/10/2009 00:28:22
so the headline could be snp prepared to work with whoever is in charge if hung parliament if it is in scotland's interest.
but that straightforward comment is not acceptable for this paper.
11

Fifi la Bonbon,

12/10/2009 00:28:48
#9 - s'no fair, so it's no.
12

Fifi la Bonbon,

12/10/2009 00:31:33
#10 - that would be a daft headline given that the news angle is Iain Gray making a disobliging remark about the nationalists. If the news angle had been that Mister Salmond had made a disobliging remark concerning the labour party no doubt the headline would have reflected that.
13

BIG EYE,

Paisley 12/10/2009 00:35:58
Labour and Tory feed off each other just like parasites.

Labour hope that people will vote Labour because they are against the Tories and the Tories hope people will vote Tory because they fear or dislike the Labour Party.

The important thing here is they rely on people voting AGAINST something. The real alternative to this politics of fear and repression is to vote positively FOR a better Scotland by voting SNP.

Finally I would remind people that the feeble fifty Labour MP's elected during the eighties to DEFEND SCOTLAND against Margaret Thatcher were probably the most dismal generation of Labour polticians ever raised in Scotland ..until now that is!
14

,

12/10/2009 00:37:26
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15

Fifi la Bonbon,

12/10/2009 00:37:27
#13 - well you would say that because you're a cybernat, and you're against the union and anything to do with it.
16

,

12/10/2009 00:41:42
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17

overshot,

perth 12/10/2009 00:46:29
If I was first minister must be on the same sh!t as Wendy.
He said the SNP had forgotten the damage dished out by previous Conservative administration, citing "the families hammered by poll tax, the jobs lost as mines and factories closed".

We have not forgotten and it will take a long time to forget the mess his mob are going to leave us with.
18

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 12/10/2009 00:49:38
What utter dross! Labour and Tories are both utterly indistinguishable and neither cares about Scotland one iota.

Vote Labour get Toryism is what has actually happened!

Now Labour are about to be thrown out they think the thick as mince yokels in Scotland will believe their dishonest trash about the SNP.

The SNP will put Scotland first and will hopefully treat ever British orientated party with the lack of respect they deserve as every one is out to run this country down.

Labour and Tories are the same and are as equally bad as each other. Post Office Privatisation, is that being pushed through by the Tories? Trident, supported by both Labour and Tories.

PR, Lords reform, rejected by both Labour and Tories.

Keep Scotland invisible on the world stage, the constant campaign of every unionist from the Liberal Undemocrats to the original Tories and their shadows the New Labour Rosy Tories.

If this is the best Labour can come up with then bring on the general election because they are going to get utterly slaughtered by the SNP.

Oh and by the way, Tory and pseudo Tory Government can be avoided FOREVER by voting for Scots independence, bit of a miscalculation there eh!!!
19

,

12/10/2009 00:52:51
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20

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 12/10/2009 00:52:53
"Yesterday, Mr Gray pounced"

Gies a break! Has he the energy to actually 'pounce' on anything? Mr Gray lazily talked his usual turgid trash might be a bit more descriptive...!
21

Curley Bill,

12/10/2009 00:54:27
Vote SNP get Tory
Vote Labour get Tory
Vote Libs get Tory
Vote Tory get Tory

That's right, it doesn't matter how we vote in Scotland we're going to get a UK Tory Government.
What we have to deal with is which party will best fight Scotland's corner - SNP, come on down!
22

Brianwci,

12/10/2009 01:05:54
#5 Punta Prima we have been putting up with this form of anti democratic Brit Nat propaganda for years now.

But like the constant negative Brit Nat barking it is having its own negative effect on the Brit Nats themselves.

The Scot Nats are still top of the pops in all polls and are in a very strong position to be major players in any Westminster balance of power scenario.
23

Brianwci,

12/10/2009 01:07:36
Oh, re misleading headline, a vote for the SNP is a vote for Scottish Independence and a probable Westminster Hung Parliament.
24

veritas1,

clacks 12/10/2009 01:21:50
Labour rehashing the same old lies, I knew they were short of money but I thought that they could at least afford to come up with a new slogan for the election.
25

,

12/10/2009 02:24:13
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26

Baggy Troosers,

12/10/2009 04:06:02
This is coming from the man that is already in bed with the Tories, ie Calman commission ,etc etc etc.

Feefee at #10 is becoming more and more paranioa as the weeks pass ,hence her comments on Hitler .

She is posting as much gibberish as Mandrake and Timbercake and if not careful will be taking over the mantle of forum idiot pretty soon.
27

Baggy Troosers,

12/10/2009 04:08:58
#8

He's doing it deliberately - Lord foulkes
28

Royster,

12/10/2009 05:36:00
#1. I fully agree with that opinion of the S-S-NP and all the racist bile they stand for.
29

Ranald Newal,

12/10/2009 05:39:56
I’m seeing voting for the SNP as voting for independence at all cost.
I’m no so sure I like or trust the whole concept of at all cost.
30

steve 1511,

aberdeen 12/10/2009 05:43:06
ian gray(elmer fudd)as he is known in the labour party is as much use to scotland as a nodding dog in the back window of a car
31

,

12/10/2009 05:56:03
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32

,

12/10/2009 05:59:36
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33

,

12/10/2009 06:17:36
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34

Ranald Newal,

12/10/2009 06:18:42
BrechinBhoys@28,02:24:13
------------------------
I’m glad I done live inside your head pal, what a jumble.
Most of your interesting list at best consists of sub-sections.
Defence policy, Economic policy and Political ethics look to cover most.
35

Unelectedbythepeople,

UK 12/10/2009 06:43:26
Gordon Brown -

The BBC is reporting that Gordon Brown will announce tomorrow that he intends to sell off a number of assets to help reduce debt. It is predicted the sales will raise £16bn.

They will include the Tote, Dartford crossing, the student loan book, the Channel Tunnel rail link and - having protected national security - the government's stake in URENCO.

Let's put that in perspective. The budget deficit in August was £16.1bn!

So these sales, to be announced tomorrow as Browns big idea will, once sold, cover one month's debt… what will he do to pay for September's?

He is such an economic genius isnt he Labour toadys on here will be so happy Big Gogs is pawning some stuff to pay for his RECKLESS STEWARDSHIP OF THE ECONOMY
36

Royster,

12/10/2009 06:58:34
#38. Reckless stewardship of the economy? Don't be daft. I'm not a Labour supporter but the UK appears to have ridden out the worst of this world economic crisis thanks to some pretty smart government moves (preference shares in banks, massive borrowing etc). As for reckless stewardship, what about Iceland and Ireland? Part of Salmond's 'Arc of prosperity'. Iceland's stock market is down 97%, its currency is virtually worthless and it is running cap-in-hand to the EU like Ireland which has just cut its public sector salaries by 7%. Both of these countries are about to become failed states. Good job Scotland was in the union and had a deep, varied UK economy as a back-up. SNP policies are based on everything going right all of the time.
37

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 12/10/2009 06:59:08
It nice to see Labour updating their Campaign Slogan.

"Vote SNP, Get Tories" is a welcome change from the "Vote Labour, Get Tories" slogan the have been using since "Old Labour" became "New Labour".
38

Kenny A,

12/10/2009 06:59:21
#36 Royster

Well done to you and timberlake and the Group Captain.

I am now going to definatly vote SNP now, I was not going to bother with any party but I take your comments very personaly.

My Childern and Grandchildern are mixed race, I have met no racist SNP and in fairness very few others in my part of Scotland from other parties who are.

As for the nazi comments, you have some serious issues to address.

I suppose when you watch te likes of star trek for example you will be bouncing all over the place screaming nazi and alien reich because the Klingons have a dodgy symbol as well.

Onto a bit of sense, if the SNP want to vote for the Tories on certain issues if it is for the benefit of Scotland why not. I did not see them saying they would not vote with Labour on certain matters.
39

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

12/10/2009 07:04:32
1 Group Captain

“a vote for the Nats is a vote for a bunch of lying, incompetent, treasonable opportunists.”

-----------------------------------
So that’s them telt then!
(PS. I wonder if Major General McDowell is aware of this)?
40

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 12/10/2009 07:15:52
No matter which MPs the Scottish People send to Westminster, the Government is going to be a Tory one.

What Scottish voters should concern themselves with is which group is going to the best job in opposition fighting for Scotland's interests.

Will it be the Labour MPs, licking their wounds and trying to repair themselves so that they are popular in England again and can return to power?

Or will it be the SNP MPs, itching to fight whenever the Tories attempt to work against Scotland's
interests?

Even if every MP elected from Scotland was a Labour MP, it would not save Scotland from the onslaught of Thatcher 2, that is coming.

However if a solid Majority of MPs from Scotland where SNP MPs, it would certainly give Cameron pause to think that if he treats Scotland as shabbily as his Tory predecessors' have, that there is the very real possibility we will leave and take our Oil revenue with us.
41

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

12/10/2009 07:25:52
Many of us will still remember the lack of impact created by “The feeble 50” Labourite MPs returned at the time of Thatcher.

Why would we do that again?
42

Linda,

Edinburgh 12/10/2009 07:35:40
If latest Opinion poll of English voting intentions is accurate then even if everyone in Scotland voted Labour we would still have a Tory government so Vote Labour get Tory. Labour, particularly in Scotland, have no policies or big ideas just negative attacks on the SNP.

I am told that the latest Labour by election newspaper in Glasgow North East does not mention Labour.

Watched the embarrassing Lib Dem candidate on BBC Politics Show. Did they not interview candidates?

And why does BBC persist in using "Scottish Labour" caption when no such political party exists.
43

Soosider,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 07:38:47
Is this Jim Murphy conceding that Labour will not win the UK election?
Latest Polls show the Tories with an overall Majority of 92, so at the moment the possibility of a hung parliament is a remote one. This kind of reflects what earlier posters have said that no matter who Scotland votes for we will have a Tory UK government. SO the real question is, who is best placed to protect Scotlands interests.
Personally in the event of a hung parliament I would expect any small party to try to make capital from it.
44

,

12/10/2009 07:40:29
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45

,

12/10/2009 07:46:48
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46

LEAL,

12/10/2009 07:48:59
47 Royster
No,the SNP is the party with Scotlands interests at heart.
47

,

12/10/2009 07:57:44
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48

,

12/10/2009 07:58:42
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49

Kenny A,

12/10/2009 07:58:49
47 Royster

Cant see it, it seems that it is working on the fact the current state of the UK is a mess and Scotland may be better of by itself. I think it has a point, although I do not in anyway agree with all SNP points of view.

I truthfully cannot see how it can be termed fascist or racist. Not by a long shot does every nation or party seeking independence or greater autonomy follow fascist principals. Its not the BNP who I think clearly are.

As for Salmond I dont think he is inadaquate I think he is a bit overconfident and smug. He has however got credentials that the other Scottish leaders do not have.

We will agree to disagree.
50

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

12/10/2009 07:58:49
#47/48

You have a rather weird perception of what constitutes a “fascist” organisation if you equate an inclusive left of centre social democratic party with such a description.

It rather appears that you do not really understand the meaning of the word.
51

,

12/10/2009 08:01:52
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52

Royster,

12/10/2009 08:02:49
#49. LoL. I would say the exact opposite. #50. How bizarre.
53

Linda,

Edinburgh 12/10/2009 08:03:27
Business Secretary Lord Mandelson has admitted he would have no qualms about continuing his career under a Tory government. Lord Mandelson’s admission follows remarks by UK Energy Secretary, and someone tipped to succeed Gordon Brown as Labour leader, Ed Miliband, that there are no "big differences" between Labour and the Tories.

The admissions are especially difficult for Scottish Labour and come as polling research over the last year shows that both Iain Gray and Jim Murphy have singularly failed to improve Labour’s polling position in Scotland.

A series of Scottish opinion polls reveal that after 12 months of Iain Gray’s lacklustre leadership the SNP remain 13 points ahead on the Holyrood constituency vote and on average 8 points ahead throughout the year, with the SNP averaging 37% with Labour on 29%, Conservatives on 14% and the Lib Dems on 13%.

Polls also show the General Election in Scotland is a two horse race between Labour and the SNP, with Labour support falling by 5 points under Jim Murphy, whilst voters have maintained their backing for the SNP.
54

mark mccann,

12/10/2009 08:05:00
Fascist! Natzi! You really are plumbing the depths now. You failed in every way to discredit the SNP so you resort to this. Hang your heads in shame, you've been exposed time and again as a bunch of idiots and you confirm it with these pathetic posts. You really are pathetic.
55

,

12/10/2009 08:10:17
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56

The Tin Man,

12/10/2009 08:12:13
The terms of political science, the SNP are classified as an ethno-regional party, not a facist party.
57

Royster,

12/10/2009 08:12:19
Salmond is like Roderick Spode from Bertie Wooster. Hail Spode.
58

,

12/10/2009 08:15:34
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59

alanh,

ek 12/10/2009 08:16:14
has the greyman given up even the hope that nu liebore can make up the biggest party in westmonster?
If not then our party can give their votes to nu liebore ,as long as the bill being debated is in the interests of scotland, in the same way as they could lib dum or tory.
Is that tooooooooooooo difficult for the grey man to understand or , as usual, are nu liebore , north brittian dept, just full of spin and mistruths
60

,

12/10/2009 08:17:36
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61

gus1940,

Edinburgh 12/10/2009 08:18:07
I find the notion of Gray pouncing absolutely laughable.

No matter how hard I try I cannot imagine him pouncing on anything other tnan a daily opportunity to get yet another Labour press release into The Anti-Scotsman.
62

TWC,

exLabour 12/10/2009 08:19:18
If the other parties are not up front with their Fiscal Proposals for Scotland then we should all vote SNP (That doesn't mean we have to support Independence)

But we need to smoke out the cowards in the Labour party.
63

Jings MacCrivvens,

12/10/2009 08:36:37
Gray really does not get it does he? The Scots well understand that since Labour became the New Tories, Scotland has a two-party political system, the SNP and the Britnat Unionists.
64

Darien,

Panama 12/10/2009 08:44:58
Iain Gray says the SNP voting with Westmidden Tories "is a betrayal of Scotland."

No Iain, the betrayal of Scotland is by Scots like you who work for British Nationalist/Unionist parties and in doing so forfeit their own nation. That is betrayal.
65

Alan B,

12/10/2009 08:46:45
Is gray really that stupid.

It is simple. Vote snp and independence and scotland gets who ever scotland votes for.

Vote labour and the union and we will get who ever england votes for which most of the time is the tories.

66

Alan B,

12/10/2009 08:49:03
The only way to protect scotland within the union from the tories is to have fiscal autonomy. Then scotland can set its own tax and revenue policies. Labours rejection of fiscal autonomy is labour supporting tory tax policy in scotland. Vote labour get tory.
67

Two Gun Eck,

PALM BEACH FL 12/10/2009 08:57:34
"I think in 1997 any Labour leader would've won the election because the people wanted a change but what made 1997 different was that the British establishment didn't want a change, they wanted Mrs. Thatcher's policies to be continued and Blair gave an assurance that he would, in economic terms, follow her lead.

He said, New Labour is a new political party and when Mrs. Thatcher was asked her greatest achievement, she said "New Labour". Therefore, the Labour victories in Blair victories have not really been Labour victories, they've been victories for a party that based so much of its polices on the Thatcher inheritance. And that's why I'm not a member of New Labour."

Tony Benn.
68

Two Gun Eck,

PALM BEACH FL 12/10/2009 09:05:06
Dear oh dear. The party that stole Thatchers clothes. Such hypocrisy. More children now live in poverty than when they came to power. The gap between the haves and have nots even wider than when they promised to close it. No EU referendum as promised. Crooks stealing our money through their expenses. Country overun by illegal immigrants. Britain once more at the door of the IMF, just like Labour in 79. STAY IN BRITAIN END UP BROKE. History repeats, Labour could not run a bouncy castle. Iain Gray and Spud Murphy two of the most inept no marks in British politics, spinning like marionettes.

WHEN THE SNP DOES WELL SCTOLAND DOES WELL.

VOTE SNP AND SEND LABOUR INTO THE OBSCURITY THEY DESERVE.
69

Two Gun Eck,

PALM BEACH FL 12/10/2009 09:06:31
WHEN THE SNP DOES WELL SCOTLAND DOES WELL. Even.
70

mr broon,

Edinburgh 12/10/2009 09:11:29
Unfortunately for voters their choice is limited, and those who might well have considered casting their franchise for a Right-Wing candidate are loath to do so because of the low esteem in which the Scots Tories are held by the Scottish Electorate.

No doubt nominally Unionist members of the Scots Electorate will continue to vote tactically for the Nationalists, as well as provide their traditional support for Labour, because of their complete reluctance to see the Scots Tories anywhere near the levers of power.
71

,

12/10/2009 09:15:39
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72

Anna nexr door,

12/10/2009 09:17:05
royster I disagree with everything you say, you are a fool.
73

Alan B,

12/10/2009 09:20:10
#Royster

How you can pretend that labour mgt of the economy was not extremely reckless is beyond me.

Just think of browns golden rule to gain economic credibility when elected. Not to borrow over the economic cycle. He lied. His spending was wreckless giving the uk a debt to gdp level of more than 100% even before this crisis when taking into account unfunded public sector pensions and pfi.

Add to that record private sector debt levels, uncontrol house price inflation, uncontrolled money supply, and changing the financial regulatory environment which failed so spectacularly.

As for dealing with this crisis. Remember australia did not go into recession and germany and france both came out months ago. Althought that is more to do with the position of the uk economy and dreadful economic mgt before the crisis than anything else.
74

Mèths,

12/10/2009 09:30:45
Royster @36

You need to up yer meds Royster. Your post at 36 was simply a juvenile rant. Begone you fool.
75

Mèths,

12/10/2009 09:33:28
Royster @47

Likewise your post at 47 is a pile of juvenile pash. Do you seriously believe what you write? If so you are one deluded nutjob. Begone you fool.
76

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 09:41:35
The SNP should have no dealings with the Tories. Absolutely none. If they do they will lose. The votes that Scotland needs to make it indpendent are in the West and the central belt. We, and I include myself, will have no truck with any party that allies itself with the Tories. However I think this article is a load of nonsense as the SNP will have figured that out ages ago.
77

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 09:48:52
48 You are obviously inadequate yourself, but I suggest you take that up with your CPN rather than posting your problems on here.
78

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

12/10/2009 09:53:12
80 Observer,,

In the event of a hung parliament, the SNP will work on an issue to issue basis with whosoever forms the minority Government to the betterment of the citizens of Scotland.

Would you have it any other way?
79

Royster,

12/10/2009 09:57:19
#76. What was the alternative to massive government borrowing? Bank depositors losing all their cash even though they had invested in nothing? Some people on the Tory right were saying that. This financial crash is due to 2 things: 1) A bonus culture which rewared short-term profits and b) Arificially low interes rates caused - in part - by China buying too many US treasury bonds instead of floating its currency and reckless western European consumers. At least the UK government had the means to borrow and can pay back in the longer term. It will eventually make a profit. The same cannot be said for Iceland (which is currently having a Darian moment thanks to its hubris), Latvia and Ireland.
80

,

12/10/2009 09:58:29
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81

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 10:02:10
82 Yes. I would have it that they do not support the Tories. And given that what the Tories propose to do is madness I think I am quite right in my position.

The votes the SNP need to win are here. I really can't emphasise that too much.
82

Dear_Gordon,

12/10/2009 10:03:20
I believe the SNP position in Westminster is to vote on an issue by issue basis, in the best interests of Scotland.

No ties to anyone other than the people of Scotland.

Sounds good to me.

For Gray to paint it any other way is pure fear talking.

The alternative Labour position will be to sit in opposition and whine and whinge to absolutely no effect - again!

83

,

12/10/2009 10:05:11
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84

Alan B,

12/10/2009 10:05:20
#Observer

there is an obvious problem with that.

Firstly consider the scottish parliament. All the parties realise that they have to work with others where they agree on issues. The snp have worked with the tories to get their budget through. And labour have worked with the tories on calman.

Secondly the snp needs to be a broad church to deliver independence. It needs to bring together those who are more leftish and those that are rightish in the joint believe that scotland will be better off independent. It needs to take a more continental european view of consenus rather than the adverserial uk approach.

Thirdly if the tories do win the election and the snp hold the balance of power should they not try to extract consensions for scotland. The idea that you do not work with an opposition no matter what they might offer is a tad immature.

I for instance could see a senario where the snp would support english votes on english matters in return for fiscal autonomy.

The thing is you only support the another party when you get some significant back in return.

I personally cannot see the reason for saying never to the tories and potentially supporting labour when labour are as bad if not worse than the tories.
85

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 10:06:43
83 You are an economic illiterate. Yes it was a global recession, such things are inevitable in a capitalist system, but Labour made it far far worse than it had to be. Anyone who removes regulation in favour of a risk based system, which actually doesn't calculate the extent of risk, is a moron. Step forward Gordon Brown.
86

Dear_Gordon,

12/10/2009 10:06:48
Correction :-

The alternative Labour position will be to sit in opposition and whine and whinge to absolutely no effect - again!

And all the while be confused; unable to tell the difference between Cameron and that nice Mr Blair.
87

Royster,

12/10/2009 10:08:29
#88. English votes for English matters is unworkable. You can't have 2 sets of Westminster MPs. Who would decide on what was an 'English matter'?. The solution is to close Holyrood and give Scotland a vote on independence.
88

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 10:11:05
88 I suppose it all depends on whether you want to win.

I do.

Any perceived alliance with the Tories wil cost the SNP votes in the part of Scotland where they need to win.

It's as simple as that.
89

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

12/10/2009 10:13:52
83 Royster,

Compare and contrast:

Germany
Germany's budget deficit is expected to reach 3.9 percent of the country's gross domestic product in 2009. The European Union has said it expects it to grow to 5.9 percent in 2010 -- almost double the 3 percent ceiling of the EU's sound budget rules that underpin the stability of the euro.
Before launching multibillion euro stimulus plans, however, the budget was close to balanced -- with a deficit of 0.1 percent of GDP last year, half the 2007 level.
-------------------------------
UK
Economists said the rise was less than anticipated by the market but still pointed to a worse outcome than currently forecast by Britain's Labour government. The Treasury has forecast a total borrowing requirement of more than 175 billion pounds for the current financial year, exceeding 12% of gross domestic product.
----------------------------

By the way, I have a colour printer, does Gordon Brown require any more quantively eased Pound notes?

90

Alan B,

12/10/2009 10:21:01
#83 Royster

There are 3 issues in this crisis.

1)what caused it
2)why the uk was in such a poor economic position to deal with it.
3)and how you can deal with this crisis.

The cause was triggered by the US.

The reason the uk was in such a bad economic position was because brown ignored the economic fundamentals. As eddie george said the uk deliberately stoked up a consumer boom based on debt. The problem was it was never sustainable. (ie it was ok for a short term relief from the economic dot com collapse of the late 90s).

Brown did one thing well. And that was to give the BOE independence to set monetary policy. Problem was he narrowed the inflation definition from rpi to cpi removing housing inflation. He put nothing in its place and did not control the level of debt in the economy by controlling the money supply. That is all pretty basic economics. The european bank by contrast does take money supply and asset inflation into account.

It really is not rocket science to understand that massive property inflation based on ever growing levels of debt was never sustainable nor desirable. And basing that on making the financial system heavily dependent on the wholesale global credit markets was completely wreckless.

"Arificially low interes rates"
In the uk this was based on not controlling the money supply and removing asset inflation (property) from the inflation measure. Although personally would have used quantitive measures and not just the cost of money.

Then look at the regulations. Look at what brown allowed with grantite and northern rock with nr offshoring mortage debt to a childrens charity to avoid capital requirements.

And for public sector finances. Again it is simple you do not spend more than is coming in in taxation over a period (u do not have to balance the budget each yr). If you run big debt up in the good times you do not have the scope to allowed a more relaxed fiscal position when you hit a bumpy period.


91

Edward,

12/10/2009 10:21:03
The real fact of the matter is regardless of how many Labour MP's are voted for in Scotland the UK will get a Tory Government
This 'vote for the SNP is a vote for Labour' is as old as the hills and is always wheeled out by Labour
They really are desperate.
Fact is it will make no difference to who will be the next UK Government.
BUT what will make a difference is havingMP's that will trully represent Scotland and fight for Scotland.
We have had Labour MP's from Scotland for long as I can remember and they really do nothing for Scotland.
If they had made a difference, parts of Scotland would not be in a mess as they are now.
Scotland the only country to have Oil and no to benifit!
At least having a large presence of SNP MP's facing Cameron, will make it uncomfortble for the Tories
92

Mèths,

12/10/2009 10:23:37
Royster

"Who would decide on what was an 'English matter'?."

Health, Education, Police etc for starters.
93

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 12/10/2009 10:24:41
Bloody hell not this old chestnut. Labour are waving the white flag for the general election.
94

Mèths,

12/10/2009 10:25:53
... law, social work, agriculture, forestry and fishing, the environment, fire service etc.


There's a few matters that are non-Scottish. English could vote on them.
95

Royster,

12/10/2009 10:26:26
#96. They've always been local to some extent. Many other laws could not so easily be pigeon-holed.
96

Mèths,

12/10/2009 10:26:50
By non-Scottish, I mean non-Scottish for voting in Westminster. You know what I mean!
97

Mèths,

12/10/2009 10:27:03
100 by default!
98

Mèths,

12/10/2009 10:27:49
99

Scottish MPs should NOT vote on matters not affecting Scotland. The SNP don't.
99

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

12/10/2009 10:29:31
92 Observer,,

There will be no alliance between the SNP and the Tories under any circumstances, the membership will not allow it.

You appear to be an intelligent individual, do not get mis-directed by Hootsman attempts at deflection and propaganda.

Remember, the game is afoot!
100

radge dug,

Dùn Eideann 12/10/2009 10:30:01
#102 though English MPs can vote on Scottish matters because they are 'British'. Stuff the corrupt English parliament!
101

Royster,

12/10/2009 10:30:26
#95. You really don't get it do you? You are so blinkered by nationalism that you can't see that Scotland has a call on most of the UK through its allies in the north of England. If the north of England unites with Scotland, it controls the whole UK (usually through a Labour government). That gives Scotland huge leverage in country with 10 times its population. The goals and needs of the northern English and Scotland are massively aligned. If Scotland ran itself, it would lose this leverage and become a mere satellite of England like Ireland.
102

Alan B,

12/10/2009 10:34:30
#91 Royster

You are confusing your polarised position of ultra centralisation or independence. Many countries operate decentralised federal models the US, Australia, Switzerland and Germany etc.

My point was not whether you like it but whether the tories may want english votes for english matters as they have previously discussed. The 2 things that could stop the tories winning power is a voting system that means they can win the popular vote and not get the majority of seats (see last election where they won the popular vote in england ie got more votes but got less seats than labour). Along with scotland (and wales) returning labour mps. It is therefore not inconceivable that the tories could want such an outcome and offering fiscal autonomy maybe a trade off.

English votes for english matter is also clearly workable if you sort of the fudged mess that labour created with devolution. the biggest issue moving in that direction is the fiscal issue. fiscal autonomy would clear the way. But also devolving say all transport rather than the mess we currently have with rail would help make it easier.

I could see a situation where english mps wear 2 hats one of english parliament and the other of uk parliament entirely credible and possible.
103

A_Scottish_Voice,

12/10/2009 10:35:49
Yiz can huff and puff aw yi want till the cow come home, yir still gonna take a pounding.
104

plantsman,

kincardine o, neil 12/10/2009 10:37:18
i beleive that some of the posters above are fascist by their ranting and ludicrous statements.i know of no one in my area of the s.n.p.who discriminates against colour or race,in fact any such action would see you out of the party.this of course is not the case in other parties.as for scottish labour,formed originally as an home rule party,they have kept scots in poverty for their whole existance.as long as we got drunk at the weekend went to the match and then fought with ourselves labour were happy.now we are thinking about scotland as a whole labour are excreting themselves
105

The Tin Man,

12/10/2009 10:39:58
The main thrust of the Conservative message is that they will strive to pay off the national debt.

The main thrust of the Labour message is that they will strive to pay off the national debt, but not as quickly as the Conservatives.

The main thrust of the Lib Dem message is that they will strive to pay off the national debt, with similar urgency to Labour.

The SNP? I Googled it, and all I can find is 'SNP plant to cut student debt'.
106

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 12/10/2009 10:41:50
105 Two things you are either at the wind-up or you actually believe what you are writing.

If you are at the wind-up it's non too subtle.

Or if you do believe it, that explains the state of unionism in Scotland and the UK
107

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

12/10/2009 10:43:38
105 Royster,

You are obviously not old enough to remember the “Feeble 50” Labourite MPs returned from Scotland during the Thatcher era.

Those of us who do recall will never vote Labour again.
108

Alan B,

12/10/2009 10:44:43
#The Tin Man

The main thrust of the labour message is to deny they caused the mess in the first place. To deny that the sheer scale of the debt is down to their incompetence. To first deny they will make cuts to bring down the debt and then admit they were lying. Add to that they will spread scare stories about what would happen if the tories try to deal with labours mess.

The main thrust of the tories is to blame labour for the mess and give the impression that they will bring down the debt.

The main trust of the snp is to put scotland first and get us out this economically failing union. One that puts the interests of the south east before the north.

109

Alan B,

12/10/2009 10:48:09
#The Tin Man

Labours record in government is always to vastly increase the national debt. Browns record was to hide national debt until the whole thing exploded in his face.
110

The Tin Man,

12/10/2009 10:50:56
#113

"The main trust of the snp is to put scotland first and get us out this economically failing union. One that puts the interests of the south east before the north."

That, as you know, addresses the issue of national debt in no way, whatsoever.
111

Ggordon,

12/10/2009 10:52:53


Get rid of Labour and Conseratives No difference between them. Vote SNP and set Scotland free to prosper. Labour has betrayed Scotland for the last thirty years or more
112

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 12/10/2009 10:53:47
Justin Timbercake and the other first posters are Scotsman employees, who are required to post online anti SNP comments. This is to entice Cybernats to reply and get indignant. The purpose of this is purely to get as many posts as possible as this justifies the advertising pop-ups on the page. The more hits the greater the revenue. As Cybernats out number Cyberlabourites, Cybertories and Cyberlibdems, all articles must take a postion hostile to the SNP. It is purely a matter of revenue for the business. None of the persons who have to make the early posts believe in what they write. They do it only as part of their employment.
113

Ggordon,

12/10/2009 10:55:42

Royster agrees he would vote for a party with the same policies as the SNP, if it was UK based. How nationalist is that. Then accuses the SNP of being nationalist.
114

Royster,

12/10/2009 10:57:41
#118??? I'm quite happy to vote or further European integration as long as it is accountable and democratic. I prefer cooperation than petty nationalism.
115

The Tin Man,

12/10/2009 10:58:35
Whether separatist, or unionist, the national debt is a liability for all of us, throughout the UK, equally. The ability of the government to pour money into the economy in order to promote growth is rapidly becoming unsustainable.

Labour, the Conservatives, and the Lib Dems have all acknowledged this fact, and at least appear to have faced-up to the implications with some honesty. It has to be dealt with, and all parties, including the SNP, have to have a clear policy on the matter.
116

Mèths,

12/10/2009 10:58:56
Pop-ups? None with Firefox.

Sick of adverts on google? Try Scroogle.
117

Alan B,

12/10/2009 11:01:14
#The Tin Man

The best way for scotland to deal with any national debt issue is transform the economy ie economic growth. By having the tools of economic mgt at your desposal then you can best address the fiscal position.

Lets be honest none of the parties are and can really put forward a coherent position on national debt.

Labours is a joke.

The tories are sounding tough but it does not deal with economic realities.

ie does not deal with how we are going to have decent levels of economic growth.

The really serious postion of the uk economy is it has been based on artificial levels of growth.

Are the tories and labour going to try to go for the same unsustainable debt lead growth in the future. Are either going to control house price inflation.

What is the natural rate of economic growth in the uk economy if it was proper organic growth and not short term debt lead.

Growth in the economy of 3% rather than 2% would be the best way to deal with the national debt. Problem is how do you achieve that without just going for short termist consumer debt economic growth like we saw in the past decade.

Neither the tories or labour are also dealing with debt like unfunded public sector pensions or the fact that pfi debt is off balance sheet.

Even the credible tory policy to increase pension age to 66 is only a single yr and delayed so that it will not impact for a long time.


118

Royster,

12/10/2009 11:02:47
#112. Actually, the UK under Margaret Thatcher was also close to fascism. Remember the Tory conference with all the bellicose flag waving from the hoorays? Maggie loved it but poor old Ted Heath was really offended. As I get older, I really see what a thoroughly decent man Ted Heath was. I really hate petty nationalism and I would like to see some kind of political and institutional stability return to the UK.
119

Royster,

12/10/2009 11:04:57
I also had a lot of time for Peter Shore. Labour MP for Bethnal Green and Bow.
120

Edward,

12/10/2009 11:06:24
#105 Royster (from Hull)
I'm not actually blinkered anything, I see it and say it how it is!
' Scotland has a call on most of the UK through its allies in the north of England'
What allies would they be then? Strangely there are parts of North East England
have shown interest in being part of an Independent Scotland, but that’s another story.
If your referring to Labour MP's in the North of England, then again your sadly in cloud cuckoo land on that one. Labour MP's in the North of England are only interested in - The North East of England, that may come as a shock to you but that’s the reality. Another reality is that polls conducted in the North of England, which is usually strong Labour land's are showing a swing away from Labour to the Tories, so another of your straws blown away!.
' If Scotland ran itself, it would lose this leverage and become a mere satellite of England like Ireland' - You really are a sad person! Scotland DOES NOT have any leverage in the UK, with or without North of England MP's. As stated North of England MP's especially Labour ones are only interested in what matters in the North of England. Why would an Independent Scotland become a 'mere' satellite of England? That’s really a very delusional statement to make. I hardly think the people of Ireland would warm to think that they are a 'mere' satellite of England, which cannot be further from the truth. Scotland likewise would not be a satellite of any kind to any country.
As ever Royser your deluded from reality
121

tommy the huscarl,

London but a Durham Lad 12/10/2009 11:08:37
Dear Scottish Friends,
A vote for the SNP is a vote for England's Independence too. You have a voice please use it, this british government won't give England the same benefits that you have. Vote for independence and we will buy lots of Tunnocks tea cakes from you. All the best, tommy3lions
By the way , we will send Brown, Darling, Alexander, Falconer etc etc back to Carter Bar where you can collect them and decide what you want to do with them once they have finished their prison sentence for treason in England.
122

,

12/10/2009 11:08:40
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123

The Tin Man,

12/10/2009 11:12:12
#122

In order for scotland to even consider anything of any worth regarding dealing with any national debt issues, Sotland has to return MPs who do not make regional pork-belly politics a life's work.

You may say that Labour are a joke on the issue, but that is certainly equally, or more applicable to your SNP friends, who seem to think that 'does not apply' is a realistic stance. Sadly, people will probably buy the 'big issues dont apply, give us some money' stance.
124

Edward,

12/10/2009 11:15:07
Between now and November by Election in Glasgow
and between now and May 6th, 2010 when the General Election is likely to happen. We will hear more and more of this kind of tatfrom Labour
- A vote for SNP is a vote for the Tories
- It was the SNP that brought in the Thatcher era
- An independent Scotland will require passports
- Families will be broken up if Scotland becomes Independent
- An indpendent Scotland will cost everyone an extra £5000 per head in tax (this figure may vary due yo inflation)
- Scotland cant afford it
Labour will trot out all of the above an more, in order to conduct a scare and neagtive campaign
The rhetoric will be repeated by journalists or so called journalists on this paper and other papers
There will be bogus posters on forums like this that will also repeat the rhetoric
Its the same evry election, you see the same old 'identities' come out
The truth is the genie really is out of the bottle, the people have seen what Labour are for what they are and Labour are now heading into oblivion. Why? simple they dont have ideasd, they dont have policy, they dont believ in Scotland, so will revert to negative and lies
125

tommy the huscarl,

London 12/10/2009 11:18:51
Edward,
Av a word mate. parts of the North East, you mean Berwick had an unnofficial vote to say they would be willing to be part of Scotland, Visit berwick and speak to the people, it was not because they wanted to be Scottish ( no offence meant ) but because people a few miles up the road get half price prescriptions going free soon, free university for their bin lids, free elderly care etc etc, thats why,all this exists a matter of about 5 miles up the road from berwicK yet the good people of Berwick have to pay.
126

Edward,

12/10/2009 11:21:00
#126 Tommy
With you there,England also needs to be out of the UK, as in the current set up, it just doesnt work.
You say your from Durham, I bet your also fed up with the New Labour project.
If Norway, Sweden and Denmark can live and work together as good neighbours, there s absolutely no reason why Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales cannot do the same!
As for Brown, Darling, Alexander and Falconer, we dont want them either!. Perhaps send them to the Isle of Elba,home of the last deluded leader
127

Ggordon,

12/10/2009 11:26:01


The UK would be better with SNP policies. Some people in Scotland will not vote for the SNP because they accuse SNP of being Nationalist, ie putting the people first.

How daft is that. Speak about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
128

Ggordon,

12/10/2009 11:31:36
128 TM


Scotland has lost billions in oil revenue because of being part of the Union.

200 Rigs some bigger, some smaller, producing billions of barrels of oil A DAY. Even with expenses off, 50% tax. Its not difficult to work it out.

Even on Darling's own figures, £400 billion to divi out, Scotland only gets, £34 billion. That's with only approx 10% of oil revenue included.
129

Stuntman Mike,

12/10/2009 11:32:03
#132: as the current economic crisis (and the consequent bail out of 2 Scottish banks) has proved, we're all in this together.

The vast majority of Scots quite rightly have no truck with the Nats' "Scotland uber alles" ranting.
130

tommy the huscarl,

London 12/10/2009 11:32:27
Ello Edward
With you marra, independence for England with our own parliament, seperate from the UK (when did we become the uk, we were always gb? )But new Liebor like to repeat the lie about us being united because if you repeat the lie often it becomes the truth, Hmmm who said that? There is nothing united about it marra, we are discriminated against constantly by this government, their aganda is to make the English british whilst all others can be Scottish, Welsh etc, this applies at football were we have to sing GSTQ, try telling the FA its not our anthem, whilst Sco/Wal can sing their own anthem (this is great) why can't we? Why do English food products in Tesco for example have to have a UJ on them whilst Sco/Wal/Fra etc have their own flags? We need to be seperate, govern ourselves, trade with all but be governed by non, I don't care about being a leading nation, I want to be a free independnet nation with no foreign masters.
Vote SNP in Scotland Vote EDP in England
131

Fletty,

12/10/2009 11:34:48


302 years of forced amalgamation is clearly not working.

Time for liberation.
132

tommy the huscarl,

London 12/10/2009 11:35:32
I think the people of Shetland might have something to say about the oil fields, most of which are in her waters. Edward mate tune into five live now, they will be talking about brown selling assets, these assets are all south of the border.
Govt to sell £3billion of English assets to fund UK - but no Scots assets
You could raise a lot of money if you sold the future rights to tax North Sea oil for example.

But no the Scots lead government plans to:

1) Sell the right to Tax the English for a crossing they have already more than paid for at Dartford.
2) Sell the English student loan book ( maybe some Welsh and Irish in there somewhere ).
3) Sell the Channel Tunnel rail link - which will allow ,money to be raised from the English again

Why not sell the rights to future North Sea Oil and Gas revenues ? That would be simple and there would be plenty of buyers, but of course the unelected Scottish prime minister and the Scottish MP who is Chancellor of the exchequer prefer to sell the English into further debt for the state spending in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland that the English fund and Labour won't cut back. Remember Victoria, Mr Brown has signed the Scottish claim of Right.
Log onto fove live geez and av a word
133

,

12/10/2009 11:35:37
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134

Mèths,

12/10/2009 11:40:09
Stuntman

"Nats' "Scotland uber alles" ranting."

Very poor show. Do you think you're clever? Pathetic pash as usual from yourself.
135

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 11:50:51
Vote Gray Get Cameron

These are mistaken tactics by the SNP. Talking about increasing influence? That partly legitimises the false accusation. They should be talking about 'independence'.

People are not afraid of the SNP or independence any more. The obvious choice then is 'Independence or a Tory government' or 'Vote Gray get Cameron'.

The cringe has lasted too long. It is time for the SNP to play the independence card fully.

When the Tories get in, as they will, this campaign would have built the groundwork for the referendum. What a missed opportunity if the SNP leadership do not wake up to this!
136

tommy the huscarl,

12/10/2009 11:52:07
Don't be offensive mate, talk about it, thats what democracy is all about. On the subject however I suggest you visit Shetland and speak to the people on their views, it may surprise you. Hope you have a nice day, I know many Scots nats and they all have a sense of humour and are happy to represent their country and their views without being offensive.
137

,

12/10/2009 11:53:58
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138

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 12:05:45
The Tin Moron has a point

"120 The Tin Man,12/10/2009 10:58:35
..the national debt is a liability for all of us, throughout the UK, equally. The ability of the government to pour money into the economy in order to promote growth is rapidly becoming unsustainable.

...It has to be dealt with, and all parties, including the SNP, have to have a clear policy on the matter."

The reason the UK is a failed bankrupt state is because of its geopolitical posturing. Involvement in wars and buying and maintaining expensive nuclear weapons systems. Add to that the fraud of the City banks and the fact that they get away with the fraud because they are the top contributors to the corporate-fascist government.

So, the UK has to keep borrowing to bail-out and to kill overseas. The volume of debt is so large that no-one is lending to the UK anymore as it can't pay even its interest charges.

The solution for Scotland. Get out of the failed UK state, take the oil and use it to pay off our part of the debt and set up a Scottish democracy which produces wealth instead of exporting it to creditor nations like China.

Tories and Labour ain't gonnie do it, are they? The choice is independence or Ukanian corporate fascism.
139

tommy the huscarl,

12/10/2009 12:07:27
Your a real credit to your nation mate. Pointless engaging in debate with someone whom lacks the intelligence to debate like a normal civilised human being, the moment you resort to name calling you have lost the moral high ground. GOD bless Scotland and her sons, even you. Later.
140

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 12:14:55
147 Audere est facere,12/10/2009 11:59:03

Exactly, I read something about how it was only the bravery of the pilots that won the Battle of Britain. Apparently radar had nothing to do with it, lol. Commando comics indeed.

It would seem, from Murphy's utterances, that the enemy now is moron from top to bottom.

A Cameron government and then the referendum. We might see the moron shills on here combust. Could be quite a show.
141

Edward,

12/10/2009 12:29:28
#137
Just a tad wrong there
But will give you a bit of slack as no doubt youve based your asumption on misinformation from unioinists
The fact is the Oil fields that is both active and thos under exploration cover an arc from the west of Scotland which includes Rockall (which is why Iceland and Ireland as well as Denmark are contesting who owns Rockall) all the way around through the north sea down to the Scotland/England border
This includes all waters around Orkney and Shetland
The Northern Islea are very much part of Scotland, always have and always will be.
For you to think that Shetland wants to be seperate is like saying the Isle of Wight wants to be seperate from England. Its noncense!
142

,

12/10/2009 12:36:37
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143

,

12/10/2009 12:45:33
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144

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 12:46:55

The fact is the UK general election has not been called, never mind any seats exchanged. But, in spite of that Salmond's SNP is gleefully touting it's intention to collaborate with the Tories at a UK level and trying to pretend that their scurrilous collaboration with the Tories will be good for Scotland.
Another description for Salmond's SNPs "new big idea" is supine surrender!
145

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 13:04:45

Saltires sent to Libya by Salmond, to celebrate the release of El MacGrahi, have been sent back bleached white.
SNP leader Salmond has ordered those white flags to be flown over Bute House in advance celebration of the election victory of Salmond's Tory ally, David Cameron, in June 2010.
146

Edward,

12/10/2009 13:05:52
#156
Everyone knows its likely to be May 6th 2010
Simple reason is thats when the English local council elections are going to be.
With an ever increasing lead in the polls by the Tories, do you honestly think that Labour are likely to win the next general election?
If you can pull your head out of your backside long enough, you would also realise that the SNP and Alxe Salmond have said that they would work with ANY party that formed the next UK Government.
You also would not have missed the point that Brown and Labour have made absolutley no attempt to work with the SNP Government in Scotland
To any watcher of FMQ's it has now become a running joke t the start when the traditional question is asked of the First Minister 'Are there any plans to meet the Prime Minister' with resultant guffaws all round ALL the MSP's, when the anwser is and allways is 'no, no plans to meet the Prime Minister'
Gordon Brown has mad no attempt to come to Holyrood an has made no effort to cooperate with the Government of Scotland
147

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 13:06:07
156 No the Scotsman is attermpting to persuade people that the SNP are getting into bed with the Tories.

In the absence of any realistic argument against independence they are going for the one that relies on the atavistic hatred of the Tories that exists in the formerly Labour heartlands that the SNP need to win.

That is what we are looking at here.
148

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 13:06:59
157 You are a nutter.
149

Edward,

12/10/2009 13:08:30
#157 Donkey Hote
You really are a dillusional fool!
Everyone knows that the flags shown on TV originated from the British Embassy in TRipoli
Just face it Brown is finished,Labour is finished and the Union with England is finished
150

,

12/10/2009 13:14:56
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151

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 13:16:19
Observer, Teddy

Just got out of bed, by coincidence, at the same time?

That's the way to do it, brazenly insult others posting here instead of trying to refute the facts. The SNP have stated in advance that they will collaborate with the Tories in the event of a hung UK Parliament. How else can you dress it up?
How long will this collaboration last, it will have to last for at least one Parliament, or, the SNP will get nothing? The SNP will have to support the Tories for a whole Parliament otherwise they risk another, early, general election where they will slaughtered for bolstering up the Tories: rightly so.
If the SNP assessment is correct and the Tories have no mandate in Scotland, the SNP will give them, apparent, legitimacy in Scotland by supporting them to the hilt.
Who are the Quislings now?
152

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 13:20:51
163 Tilt at windmills all you like, you are talking rubbish and all know it.

The SNP aim to win, and they can, they will not do that by allying themselves with the Tories. They are just not that stupid.
153

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 13:21:02
Edward # 161

The SNP let El MacGrahi out of jail and supplied the Saltires to celebrate that release.
The fact that the stunt backfired indicates how politically callow are the SNP. Their prospective collaboration with David Cameron's Tories is further evidence of naivety. The Tories will truss the SNP up like early Christmas turkeys, or, in Salmond case, a capon.
154

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 13:22:04
Observer,, # 164

They are that stupid, it's just history repeating itself...
155

,

12/10/2009 13:22:22
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156

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 12/10/2009 13:24:36
163 No what the SNP have said that in a hung parliament they will get the best deal for Scotland.

Tell me did you make up your narrative from this newspaper and the Daily Record. Can you think yourself without direction from HQ?

You are aware that English votes outumber Scottish votes by 10-1?
157

,

12/10/2009 13:26:21
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158

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 13:29:20
166 You really are a donkey. 1979 was thirty years ago. In case you haven't noticed the political firmament has changed. There is no point in holding up the spectre of Margaret Thatcher - we all remember the feeble fifty who did NOTHING to stop the mad witch.

Cameron is just as dangerous as her and I will not be voting for a further feeble fifty to do nothing to oppose him.
159

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 12/10/2009 13:32:43
165 Apart from your ignorance of Scots law, please provide us with evidence that the Scottish government supplied the flags.
160

Edward,

12/10/2009 13:40:15
#165 Dillusional Donkey
Your records stuck, you already said that and was refuted
Are not not being supplied with any more notes from Labour central office?
Or is it a case repeat a lie longe and frequent enough in the hope that someone will believe you.
Like I said before the flags were provided by the British Embassy on orders from the spooks in order to embaress Scotland. Nothing to do with the Scottish Government or the SNP
But as you head is so far up your own backside, I dont expect you to listen and no doubt will repeat your tired phrases
161

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 13:42:54
Tormod # 168

"You are aware that English votes outumber Scottish votes by 10-1?"

Only if everybody that is eligible to vote does vote.
162

Mèths,

12/10/2009 13:45:50
Donkey

"Saltires sent to Libya by Salmond"

I'd appreciate the link to this - but then again - you made it up.

That's the trouble with unionists. They can't argue with facts, so they just post lies. Oh well. Nothing new there then.
163

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 13:46:33
173 What? Do you think that our English counterparts are likely to stay in bed and not bother to vote? What are you havering on about - the election will be decided in England. Everybody knows that.
164

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 13:47:59
Edward # 172

The SNP freed El MacGrahi, against advice from around the world and supplied the Saltires for his triumphalist return to Tripoli, which part can't you accept?
If the El MacGrahi stunt hadn't failed Salmond would basking in the credit from you aerosols, you cannot have it both ways.

We will see how much gratitude is forthcoming from the the Scottish electorate from Salmond's collaboration with the Tories.
165

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

12/10/2009 13:55:00
176 Donkey Hote,

How would you like to explain the fact that the SNP are ahead in all the polls?
166

European Scot,

12/10/2009 13:55:13
176 Donkey Hote

"We will see how much gratitude is forthcoming from the the Scottish electorate from Salmond's collaboration with the Tories."

So with the Glasgow North East by election heading ever closer, at very long last, we now have the New Labour faithful trying to smear the SNP with collaboration with the Tories.'

That really would be an astute move by Alex wouldn't it.
How popular are the Tories in Scotland again ?
What with all those seats that the Westminster Tories have in Scotland as well.
That would be about as clever as deliberately placing Saltires in Tripoli.
Alex may be many things, but he's no that daft !

The last thing the SNP are going to do is to co-operate with a group, that would bring immediate condemnation from the majority of the Scottish electorate.
However, those working on behalf of New Labour, well known for its smear campaigns, and past masters of negative propaganda, would spin that for effect.

As has been pointed out many times before, if every single person of voting age in Scotland went out and voted for New Labour at the next General Election, the Tories will still win power at Westminster.
So any Unionist vote in Scotland will be a total waste.

You are tilting at spin-mills Donkey Hote.

Only voting for the SNP is going to make any difference.
167

Tom R,

12/10/2009 13:55:36
The problem for Labour is that if they are doomed to opposition, which seems very likely on the back of massive support for the Tories in the Midlands and South, then a vote for them at Westminster won’t be much more influential than an SNP vote-arguably less so.

The SNP can point out that, unlike Labour, they control the Scottish Government and, together with a significant group of MPs at Westminster, can pressure Cameron much more effectively than Labour who will be in power neither in Scotland or London.

Aren’t there likely to be meetings of importance between Cameron and Salmond after a Cameron victory where Salmond can press Cameron on issues affecting Scotland? There will presumably be no meetings between the Labour leader in opposition and Cameron.

So, in the event of a Cameron victory who will be more influential for Scotland-Labour or the SNP?

For the strategically challenged (Murphy,etc), the answer is the SNP.

168

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 13:56:50
176 The ''advice from around the world'' consisted of pressure from the Americans. When it comes to making allies I would rather we were on the side of Nelson Mandella and Archbishop Tutu. That's why I'm very comfortable with the SNP.
169

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 14:03:24
Dùn Èideann Bully Wee # 177

Polls aren't votes...
Glenrothes should remind you of that fact.
170

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 14:05:41
Another reason why this smear campaign won't work is that everyone knows the Labour Party are the same as the Tories.

I mean illegal wars for example. How many Iraqi children under the age of 5 dead because of the war? 750, 000. The electorate would consider it a betrayel if the SNP colluded with Labour - the war party. The party whose favourite terms are 'vulnerable children' and yet voted to kill hundreds of thousands of them.

Who's in bed with the banksters? You know, the people who are responsible for all the job losses? Labour! The War Party
171

Scottish Toryboy is back,

12/10/2009 14:06:12
What's with all this outdated nonsense the Nats keep on repeating ad nauseam about how Cameron will go down as badly as Maggie in Scotland? Haven't they listened to Dave's most recent conference speech and recognised that Dave is closer in outlook to his hero Harold MacMillan (who commanded substantial support in Scotland).

I'm firmly of the opinion that Scots will be more likely to turn to separation if they have to endure much more of the death throes of New Labour and feel that the very popularity of the Nats themselves proves that Scots are now ready to embrace a soft right progressive agenda.
172

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 14:06:32
Observer,, # 180

I wonder who your "glorious leader" Salmond would rather have as an ally, President Obama, or, Desmond "hang on to my" Tutu?
We should be told, soon... The Americans will want to know.
173

Edward,

12/10/2009 14:10:34
#176 Dillusional Donkey
Your needle is still stuck
Tere is no point inkeep repeating the same lie about the flags. No one believes as no one is that stupid to believe you
You really are a sad person.Perhaps you should send a request to Labour central office, via your minder to try and get some fresh material and expalin to them that despite repeating the same old tired lie, nobody believes you
174

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 14:10:48
184 I admire your optimism. I bet your glass is always half full. But you're away with the budgies on this one, if you actually analyse what the Tories intend to do economically you will see that it will result in skyrocketing unemployment and all the social chaos that brings with it.

Some of us already lived through that during the Thatcher era and have no wish to return to those years, thank you.
175

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 14:13:36
185 Frankly I don't give two hoots what the Americans think, I'm a European.
176

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 14:16:24
BlackDouglas2 # 183

Your post sounds like a justification for Salmond's collaboration with the Tories. The Tories did not oppose the war in Iraq, unlike the SNP who say they want self-determination for Scotland, but, not the Iraqi people. The Tories do not oppose the war in Afghanistan.
Let's face it, the SNP position on both those wars is one of appeasement. Do nothing in the hope that hostile elements will attack some other country than Scotland. But, the early SNP opposed the war against Hitler. That did not stop the Germans bombing Scotland though. Stalin's treaty with Hitler did not stop the Germans attacking Russia.
The SNPs appeasement of David Cameron's Tories is a surrender too far, as the SNP will discover. Unless of course, the SNP appeasement of the Tories works, which will fly in the face of historical precedents
177

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 14:20:39
Observer,, # 188

I wasn't asking what you thought, I was asking who Salmond would prefer to be allied with.
I suspect that I know the answer and it isn't the jolly Archbish.
178

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 14:21:43
189 You are stark raving mad.
179

Gruntfuttock,

12/10/2009 14:24:49
I think that most Scots would prefer to see Salmond hung by a Scottish rope.

When are you SNP supporters going to realize that Salmond is damaging the cause of independence? Everything he says and does is simply designated to further the cause of Salmond not the cause of Scotland. Rather that being a patriot with the interests of Scotland at heart, he's simply an ego maniac that is destroying the credibility of Scotland on the international stage. Time to get rid of this embarrassing buffoon.
180

,

12/10/2009 14:26:21
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181

,

12/10/2009 14:28:20
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182

Scottish Toryboy is back,

12/10/2009 14:29:04
#189 Donkey: Saddam was a Nationalist, hence the dismay of the Nats at the overthrow of this vile dictator who was a threat not only to his own people but to the region as a whole.

Toryboy is back and he's going to make himself heard on here!
183

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 14:32:52
196 Drivel, just absolute drivel, if you want to make your mark you will need to try a lot harder than that.

Incidentally with about a million deaths some people find the use of the Iraq War when making stupid points in rather bad taste.
184

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 14:35:48
Gruntfuttock # 193

If you really want an insight into the Scottish Nationalist mentality just look at post # 194.
These people are hatemongers nothing else, God forbid that they ever get free reign in Scotland, it would be worse by far than Iraq in the Saddam era.

BlackDouglas2 # 194

The world sees your hate...

185

Scottish Toryboy is back,

12/10/2009 14:37:54
#192 Audere: " I'm a pro-independence minded person who cannot suffer the Tories. Their ideology is completely alien to that which we know and pursue in Scotland."

Oh really!!! There are many areas of my native Edinburgh which are solid Conservative (compare the recent local council elections) and we retain a substantial vote in our former heartland area of Perthshire (where you Nats have stolen our clothes by bribing the county set with a CT freeze and the promise of a sort of poll tax 2).
186

,

12/10/2009 14:38:23
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187

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 14:38:52
Scottish Toryboy is back # 196

Salmond's supporters here were very vehement in their support for Saddam Hussein, I think they doth protest too much.
Do you think Salmond looks in the mirror and sees Saddam?
188

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 14:41:53
BlackDouglas2 # 202

You have Tourette's Syndrome, it must be difficult to control your pottymouth.
I don't blame your parents, but, Salmond for unleashing such unhealthy emotions in one so vulnerable.
189

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

12/10/2009 14:43:37
182 Donkey Hote,

Glenrothes resonates in my mind for a number of reasons.

Goons with guns, postal votes and the missing marked register not least amongst them.

However, be that as it may, the swing to the SNP at the Glasgow NE by election will be of some interest and should act as a pointer to what may well happen at the Westminster general election.

Springburn was once famous for the manufacture of steam locomotives and now the SNP train is leaving the station and gathering a head of steam.

190

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 14:47:54
Audere est facere # 205

"nutty nazi nats" is your description of the present Scottish administration, not mine. But, if the cap fits...

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee # 206

The SNP train is leaving, never to return...
Polls are not votes, as you know, counting them in advance is arrogant and typical of the SNP.
191

,

12/10/2009 14:49:37
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192

Scottish Toryboy is back,

12/10/2009 14:56:24
#209 Audere: yes, I as a Toryboy am proud at the removal of a reviled dictator and feel that the loss of life was as justified as that which occurred during WW2.

Although it turned out Mad Sad did not possess nuclear weapons, it appears that even he believed that he possessed them:- see

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200402/ai_n9385971

and vote Tory for a proud and unified Britain that will continue to command real respect on the world stage and rebuild its reputation post Megrahi.
193

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 14:56:44
BlackDouglas2 # 210

It looks like I am not the only one who thinks that your posts are the result of a disordered mind.
I suggest that you attempt to stick to the point of this column, that is Salmond's intention to collaborate with the Tories after the next UK general election, no matter how distasteful you find it.
194

,

12/10/2009 15:02:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
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195

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 15:08:05
BlackDouglas2 # 213

Do your puppet masters have evidence that Ad hominem attacks work, or, are you just freelancing?
196

The Master,

12/10/2009 15:10:22
#212: Donkey: "It looks like I am not the only one who thinks that your posts are the result of a disordered mind."

How good of you to sum up the essence of Nationalism in such short compass.
197

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 15:10:44
BlackDouglas2

What do Abdelbaset El MacGrahi and Alec Salmond have in common?

Both were sent home for compassionate reasons.
198

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 15:14:14
BlackDouglas2

What was the main difference between the homecomings of Abdelbaset El MacGrahi and Alec Salmond?

There were no Saltires flying when Salmond came home.
199

Scottish Toryboy is back,

12/10/2009 15:14:24
#215 Self styled "Master": begone! Who asked you, new Lab Troll!

#216 Donkey: MacGrahi was always going to be sent home so that Salmond could be the big strong Nationalist and prove that he could attract attention on the world stage by telling the Yanks where to go!
200

Alan B,

12/10/2009 15:14:59
Its seems that the only ones left arguing for the union on these threads is the lunatic unionist fringe.

Where have any of the unionists gone to put a credible argument for the union?
201

Alan B,

12/10/2009 15:16:45
#215 The Master

Quite a statment considering your admission on these forums previously that you supported the union because your mummy said she would leave scotland for england if scotland became independent.

202

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 15:21:00
Oh, moron has lost it totally. Multiple postings all clutching at his baseline straws. I wonder if moron has moron dreams involving the words ad hominem and collaborator. And it's even changing monikers to support it's own argument. A multi-headed hydra-moron. This is fantastic entertainment.
203

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 15:23:31
Scottish Toryboy is back # 218

Grandstanding is Salmond's one trick and again it backfired on him and his party.
The Nuttiest Nats have the gall to state that the SNP did not supply the Saltire flags for El MacGrahi's homecoming, unreal.
204

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 15:25:11
Audere est facere # 223

Prove that post, or, withdraw.
205

The Master,

12/10/2009 15:26:27
#223: the usual Nat conspiracy theory, I see! I suppose I'm "English Tones" as well, but he's not been in evidence, so maybe not!

Anyway, to get back to reasoned argument, my view is as follows:-

Be very careful, Jim: this "vote SNP get Tory" mantra might actually benefit the Nats in their North Eastern heartland (where the Nats abound in formerly Tory seats such as Perth).

On the other hand, compare and contrast Murphy's own seat, which is one of the very few where voting Nat could quite literally let the Tories in (although Murphy must be only too well aware that many Nat voters in the constituency wouldn't be unduly upset by such a turn of events).
206

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 15:28:37
"225 Donkey Hote,12/10/2009 15:25:11
Audere est facere # 223

Prove that post, or, withdraw."

Look at the language. Are you going to challenge him to a duel? That would mean having to defend yourself in real life against actual people. Doesn't moron troll find that a trifle disconcerting?
207

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 15:29:15
Audere est facere # 223

What do the withdrawal method and SNP policies have in common?

Neither work! Your mother could have told you that.
208

kennedysglass,

12/10/2009 15:32:05
226.master: the only reason you havent been writing for English Tones is presumably because he's gone the way of all your kimba spin offs and been deleted lol
209

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 15:32:36
BlackDouglas2 # 227

"Doesn't moron troll find that a trifle disconcerting?"
You ask them, there are any number above posting as SNP supporters.
For a Tory government, vote SNP. Vote early, vote often, vote SNP!
210

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt. 12/10/2009 15:36:53
It's function is to reduce everything to meaninglessness. That is the ultimate goal of the moron. Forgive it Lord, for it knows not what it does.
211

Alan B,

12/10/2009 15:37:00
#Donkey

For the incompetent tories vote labour.

For the little englander tories vote conservative.
212

The Master,

12/10/2009 15:40:44
230.Don't worry about it: I've got a feeling that the voters of Glasgow NE are wise to the Nats!
213

Soosider,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 15:41:13
We do seem to have wandered off topic, and simultaneously the posts have taken on the aspect of trolldom. No debate, no sustainable points, no evidence to support position, just innuendo and moronic name calling.
If I may try to bring us back on topic.

Vote Tory = Tory UK Government
Vote Labour = Tory UK Government
Vote Lib/Dem = Tory UK Government
Vote SNP = = Tory UK Government

Current polls show the Tories with an overall majority of over 90 at Westminster.
Therefore the real question is, do you believe that Scotland will require to be protected from the worst excesses of a Tory Government? and if so who is best placed to offer the best protection?
Labour could not manage much last time, when they returned 50 MPs from Scotland but we still got Thatcher.
214

hoblar,

12/10/2009 15:56:42
"We do seem to have wandered off topic, and simultaneously the posts have taken on the aspect of trolldom. No debate, no sustainable points, no evidence to support position, just innuendo and moronic name calling.
If I may try to bring us back on topic.

Vote Tory = Tory UK Government
Vote Labour = Tory UK Government
Vote Lib/Dem = Tory UK Government
Vote SNP = = Tory UK Government

Current polls show the Tories with an overall majority of over 90 at Westminster.
Therefore the real question is, do you believe that Scotland will require to be protected from the worst excesses of a Tory Government? and if so who is best placed to offer the best protection?
Labour could not manage much last time, when they returned 50 MPs from Scotland but we still got Thatcher."

Of course there is no point in voting Labour, the Tory threat is the same case of carrying on where Blair and Brown left off as far as scotland is concerned.

I'd much rather have more SNP MP's in Westminster during the Tory turn on the union merry go round, and more people in Scotland would know that this is the real choice:

SNP MP's fighting Scotland's corner in westminster in a tight parliamentary win for the tories.

Or

Or Labour "fighting' Scotland's corner er, the likes of Jim Murphy or Des browne or some other amateur night effort, who have always put the UK before Scotland as any search through this newspaper will show.

215

The Dark Side,

12/10/2009 15:57:10
235.Audere: "It's funny these days how any good news for Scotland is bad news for the union, is it?"

Sorry, but most ordinary people don't think in these terms and I doubt if they would even know what you are referring to when you talk about "the union".
216

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 12/10/2009 16:00:04
Donkey Kong used to a favourite of mine many years ago when I was a laddie.
217

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 16:23:09
Bankrupt Britain getting sold off. I mean, they're selling off the Royal Mint:

"In March, the Chancellor, Alistair Darling, appointed Rothschild to prepare the sale of the Royal Mint, which is expected to fetch £35bn."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/for-sale-one-bridge-a-bookmaker-and-millions-of-student-loans-1801328.html

Yep, the channel tunnel is in there too! The UK has nothing left. It has ceased to exist - an empty shell.
218

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 16:26:57
Yes, the Royal Mint which was created 1100 years ago is getting sold.

And:
"The most controversial of the proposed sales is the 33 per cent government stake in Urenco, because of the risk of enriched uranium getting into the wrong hands, but Mr Brown will promise that the sale will include safeguards to protect national security."

Car boot sale for the Royal Mint... Let's take the oil and run!
219

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 16:34:35
I mean that means if you want to make coins you'll have to pay a company - perhaps even a country like China. Ha, welcome to the UK - how do you say that in Chinese? Maybe instead of Ukania we can call it Uking.

I know the Bank of China is already offering mortgages in the UK. They'll own all the bridges and tolls soon and parking meters soon. You'll be paying more money to China than to local government.

Colonised and bankrupt. That's the UK.
220

gus1940,

Edinburgh 12/10/2009 16:37:34
Anybody who thinks for one minute that The SNP would be daft enough to send Saltires to Tripoli is in serious need of a visit from the men in white coats.

Only parties intent in damaging THe SNP would consider such an exercise - I wonder who they could be.
221

,

12/10/2009 16:39:05
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222

Miss H,

12/10/2009 16:39:07
226 Master the fact that you think Perth is in north east Scotland tells us all we need to know about your grasp of Scottish political geography – a grasp which could be described as masterful. Or not.
223

Cynicus Unbound,

12/10/2009 16:39:16
"Labour: Vote for SNP is vote for Tories"-HEADLINE

"No" -#1, Smee (aka Group Captain Lionel Mandrake)

"Dear oh Dear. Can you imagine?"-#3,Rufus (AKA Justin Timbercake)

Interesting, divergent nuances from the site's two closet Tories who normally sing from the same hymn sheet.

Gallant#1, opts for outright rebuttal of SLAB claim -bore diverting us with an attack on the NATS.

Unlike Smee, Rufus does what Rufus does:prevaricates and diverts attack on to the NAT enemy.

It is a sad comment on the state of Scottish Toryism when it leading adherents here have NOT ONLY absolutely nothing to say in its favour BUT ALSO fail to attack SLAB. After all, isn't Labour the main threat in what Smee has called "the real parliament?"

Incidentally, the claim that they are Johnston Press stooges is nonsense -as I will wearily have to say again and again.
224

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 16:41:29
gus1940 # 243

Only someone intent on damaging Scotland would have sent El MacGrahi back to Tripoli under those circumstances and then having the temerity to include a bale of Saltires as well.
To say that the UK government supplied the Saltires is ludicrous and worthy only of the deluded minds of Salmond's SNP.
225

Cynicus Unbound,

12/10/2009 16:42:00
#246,, CORRECTION:

Gallant#1, opts for outright rebuttal of SLAB claim -bore diverting us with an attack on the NATS.

should read:

Gallant#1, opts for outright rebuttal of SLAB claim -before diverting us with an attack on the NATS.


Some CyberNats will, of course, prefer the original.
226

Two Gun Eck,

PALM BEACH FL 12/10/2009 16:47:07
"Incidentally, the claim that they are Johnston Press stooges is nonsense -as I will wearily have to say again and again."


All your sayings are weary, like a cracked record round and round and round. The cracked record of unionism has now just become a click click click, as the monotonous zombies of New Labour and Bellas bloomers do not even register on the guffometer any more. Nothing to offer nothing to say except tired scaremongering which the Scottish voter continues to laugh at.

SCOTLAND DOES WELL WHEN THE SNP DO WELL.

VOTE SNP AND SAVE SCOTLAND FROM LONDONS GREED.
227

Fletty,

12/10/2009 16:47:25
#246 Johnston Press stooges they must be.

The alternative is too sad to contemplate.
228

Two Gun Eck,

PALM BEACH FL 12/10/2009 16:49:51
What policies do New Labour or the Tory's, (same thing,) offer Scotland to free us from the unionist created rut we are in?
229

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 16:52:21
Two Gun Eck # 251

Which part of which union is "the unionist created rut" is PALM BEACH FL in?
230

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 16:52:43
Hey Donkey,
You are a very lucky moron. You love the UK so much, right? Now you can buy pieces of the corpse. I guess it would be like having saints bones or some kind of relic. Anyway, you can buy the Royal Mint or the Dartford crossing. I even think council housing is up for sale - I mean you can buy other people's houses. Hurry now, we can't have the Chinese government being estate landlords now can we?
231

Two Gun Eck,

PALM BEACH FL 12/10/2009 16:52:52
193
Gruntfuttock,
12/10/2009 14:24:49



It is difficult to imagine what happened to you to cause such madness, I bet it hard to spell?
232

Two Gun Eck,

PALM BEACH FL 12/10/2009 16:55:05
#254. I am visiting Newton Mearns doing some missionary work, but just maintained my usual moniker. Not that it makes any difference.
233

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 16:57:57
Two Gun Eck # 255

I always found that Newton Mearns was good for a bit of the old "missionary" work, that is if you call it work. ;-)
234

Two Gun Eck,

PALM BEACH FL 12/10/2009 17:00:50
247
Donkey Hote,
12/10/2009 16:41:29


It was agents who reside in the UKs embassy. The people doing the waving and cheering were all kitchen and admin staff from the Embassy. It is well know internationally but not reported in the UK of course. Brown, Murphy and Gray have been left with egg all over their chops on this issue, the laughing stock of the world. No wonder the US President did not wish to meet him, why associate with a dead man walking. It blew back in spectacular fashion, with Brown left holding the parcel. What a sad loser he is, just like New Labour.
235

European Scot,

12/10/2009 17:02:02
247 Donkey Hote

"To say that the UK government supplied the Saltires is ludicrous and worthy only of the deluded minds of Salmond's SNP."

Not quite as ludicrous as suggesting that the SNP were responsible for doing so, the one group who stood to lose the most from such a spectacle.

So who stood to gain the most from it ?
236

Two Gun Eck,

PALM BEACH FL 12/10/2009 17:02:17
#256 It's a dogs life.
237

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 17:09:45
Two Gun Eck # 259

Somebody has to do it...


European Scot # 258

Are you suggesting that the more heinous of the two acts was the waving of the Saltire at Tripoli and not the fact that El MacGrahi was there in the first place, having been released by SNP agents?
238

Two Gun Eck,

PALM BEACH FL 12/10/2009 17:10:01
#244 We are in the middle of the W. America is about to step right of the cliff, and this one will be mega. Check the funds pouring out of the dollar and into Gold. Hold on tight and stock up on food and amunition.
239

Two Gun Eck,

PALM BEACH FL 12/10/2009 17:10:51
+++ Gordon Brown Ordered to Repay £12,415.10 +++

Nick Clegg is repaying £910 that he spent on his roses. David Cameron has been asked to provide more information about his mortgage.
240

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 17:15:27
Two Gun Eck # 262

Salmond can't be far behind then...
241

Justin Timbercake,

12/10/2009 17:17:30
Looks like Salmond's Arc of Prosperity is going from bad to worse.......................

"A year after the banking crisis brought Iceland to the brink of bankruptcy, the island nation is mired in the deepest recession among advanced economies. The stock market has lost 97 percent of its value, and more than 780 companies have buckled under the weight of foreign currency loans as the krona plunged. Consumers refuse to borrow at Europe’s highest interest rates, and international banks reject requests for new financing.

Worst Recession

Iceland’s economy will shrink 8.5 percent this year and consumer prices will climb 11.7 percent, both the worst performances among the world’s 33 advanced economies, according to the IMF’s latest forecasts. As the rest of the world begins to recover, Iceland’s recession will stretch into next year, with the economy contracting 2 percent, more than any developed nation except Ireland"

(Source: Bloomberg)

Iceland and Ireland, the basketcase economies of Europe.

We should all be thankful that a bankrupt Independent Scotland was unable to join them.

Brown and Darling saved our bacon.






242

Elmer Fudd 2,

12/10/2009 17:21:48
Hewo, Im back! Heh heh heh

Im Iwian Gway the Elmer Fudd of politics.

Weporting for dwuty

Heh heh heh

243

Elmer Fudd 2,

12/10/2009 17:23:07
Hewo again, heh heh heh

Oh boy! Wufus has come out to play.

This should be fwun!


244

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 17:25:08
264 Justin Timbercake,12/10/2009 17:17:30

"Brown and Darling saved our bacon."

They caused the problem in Iceland moron.

Check it out: http://www.counterpunch.org/hudson08182009.html

261 Two Gun Eck,PALM BEACH FL 12/10/2009 17:10:01
"#244 We are in the middle of the W. America is about to step right of the cliff, and this one will be mega. Check the funds pouring out of the dollar and into Gold. Hold on tight and stock up on food and amunition."

There's a lot of things holding the $ up but down it will come or there'll be devaluation. Whatever, the US folks are going to lose a lot of purchasing power. I think the pound will nosedive first.
245

Elmer Fudd 2,

12/10/2009 17:25:35
Hewo heh heh heh

Shh. Be vewy vewy quiet. I’m hunting Wufus

What’s this??? A clue!!!

A weceipt from a weekly supewmawket shop:

Balance due £64.53
VAT reductions £0.02
Total to pay £64.51

Oh boy! A VAT saving of 2p!!! Wufus is wich!!!

He’s alweady bwought “a plasma tv, 2 laptops, a blueray player, and loads of dwesses” with his other 2.5% VAT weductions.

Ooh, I just can’t wait until I catch that tweachewous cwoss dwesser!

Heh heh heh
246

European Scot,

12/10/2009 17:25:42
260 Donkey Hote

"Are you suggesting that the more heinous of the two acts was the waving of the Saltire at Tripoli and not the fact that El MacGrahi was there in the first place, having been released by SNP agents?"

You side stepped that one didn't you ?
Releasing a man dying from a terminal illness was in line with Scots Law, and with that I have no problem.

That aside, looking back at a trial which had the flimsiest of evidence, and the most unreliable of witnesses presented, suggests there is little doubt that certain American agencies have some serious questions to answer.

Now let's get back to the specific question, who really stood to gain from such a spectacle ?
247

Elmer Fudd 2,

12/10/2009 17:28:15
Hewo Heh heh heh

Oh boy, Swalmond twacks!

I’m going to bwast that Swalmond wight out of the Chamber.

Owch! heh heh heh just shot myself in the fwoot by mistake!

Oh boy, am I a disgwace to the Labour wegiment or what!
248

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 17:29:41
Justin Timbercake # 264

Justin, it is not very gallant of you to bring all that "arc" stuff up again, you know that the rubes in the SNP don't like it.

The only people that believe that Salmond is a world statesman are the terminally naive supporters of the SNP. All that Saltire waving stuff at El MacGrahi's SNP inspired liberation party has cemented Salmond's reputation worldwide. Salmond was right about that, handing out the Saltire to wave at Colonel Gadaffi has cemented his worldwide reputation forever. Not as a statesman though, but, as a credulous buffoon.
His collaboration with David Cameron will cement that characterisation of Salmond domestically too.
Vote Salmond, elect Cameron.
249

,

12/10/2009 17:31:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
250

Elmer Fudd 2,

12/10/2009 17:34:07
Hewo heh heh heh

Never mind the wabbit, there’s a mad dwonkey on the loose!

Come on out dwonkey, I’m gonna pump ya fuw of wead!

Heh heh heh
251

European Scot,

12/10/2009 17:37:29
271 Donkey Hote

"All that Saltire waving stuff at El MacGrahi's SNP inspired liberation party has cemented Salmond's reputation worldwide."

It's really great to see common sense and logic in some of the posts on here.
Then of course there are your comments.
252

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 17:38:01
European Scot, # 269

Whatever you think of the court, or, the evidence El MacGrahi was convicted. Personally, I don't think he is guilty, but, for the SNP to free him was politically naive and always going to backfire on the SNP. Unfortunately, the good name of Scotland has been impugned by Salmond's actions, MacAskill's too if you really believe he was in the decision loop and not just Salmond's fall guy.
The Saltire thing is just the icing on the cake.

If Salmond believes he will get anything from David Cameron in coalition, anything at all, then he is not capable of learning.
253

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 12/10/2009 17:39:52
272 If he is lucky that will pay for 1 month of debt.

271 Keep on plugging away troll, that's the spirit!
254

Donkey Hote,

12/10/2009 17:41:48
European Scot # 274

What are you saying is not true, Salmond didn't free El MacGrahi?
I think you are in denial, the whole world seems to think Salmond freed MacGrahi, MacGrahi certainly does. That is why Salmond is a laughing stock worldwide.
255

,

12/10/2009 17:42:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
256

Elmer Fudd 2,

12/10/2009 17:43:05
Hewo heh heh heh

Anywon seen Wufus?

Maybe he’s taken up with the dwonkey, well he is a bit of an ass!

Oh Wufus…

Heh heh heh
257

Justin Timbercake,

12/10/2009 17:44:48
267 BlackDouglas2,The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 17:25:08
264 Justin Timbercake,12/10/2009 17:17:30
"Brown and Darling saved our bacon."
They caused the problem in Iceland moron.
----------------------------------------------

HAHAHAHAHA

Yes of course they did.

HAHAHAHAHA, Dear oh Dear.

It was more likely that Jonah Salmond jinxed them with his Arc of Prosperity comments.
258

Elmer Fudd 2,

12/10/2009 17:49:11
278

Oh, I'm gweatwy gwatified to see you Britain is Fecked.

The handwing of money is a gweat wesponsibiwity and the tweachewous twickster Brown has been cauwght wed handed. He’s a disgwace to the Labour wegiment just like me.

I’ll get ma gun!

Heh heh heh

259

,

12/10/2009 17:49:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
260

,

12/10/2009 17:52:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
261

Elmer Fudd 2,

12/10/2009 17:57:43
283

Yeah, you’re wight, Wufus is sad and a loner.

Oh Dwonkey…

Heh heh heh


262

,

12/10/2009 17:58:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
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263

,

12/10/2009 18:06:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
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264

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 18:08:14
Good grief is there anything left that Gordon Brown does not intend to sell off? And any department that he isn't considering privatising? The Labour Party seem to be in competition with the Tories now for the award of ''right wing mentalist of the year''.

The sooner we are out of here the better.

7 Yer mask slipped there Fifi you said ''our'' country, Scotland isn't a country in your opinion it's a wee bit of Britain. Must try harder.
265

European Scot,

12/10/2009 18:15:48
277 Donkey Hote

"What are you saying is not true, Salmond didn't free El MacGrahi?
I think you are in denial, the whole world seems to think Salmond freed MacGrahi, MacGrahi certainly does. That is why Salmond is a laughing stock worldwide."

You appear to be quoting from a quote taken from one of your own comments.
The comment I made at 274 was a reflection on the standard of your reply at 271, it had nothing to do with Salmond and Megrahi's release.

You seem to be living within your own little World, so in the interests of trying to preserve sanity, communication ends.
266

,

12/10/2009 18:17:34
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267

,

12/10/2009 18:19:12
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268

Elmer Fudd 2,

12/10/2009 18:27:44
285

Oh gwacious!

I’ve always known that he was a tweachewous twickster, him and his VAT weduction buwying spree of plasma tv’s, laptops, blueray players and loads of tosh.

I’m going to wipp him a new one when I catch him.

Heh heh heh

269

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 12/10/2009 18:52:12
Can anyone tell me why Iain Gray thought it within his mandate to make a stupid quote about a Westminster election?

I know he has a right to but I think it just makes him sound like an unoriginal lapdog repeating party spin.
270

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 12/10/2009 18:54:03
Looks like Gerri Peev has been handed the whip by Labour(Scotland).
271

,

12/10/2009 18:58:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
272

hoblar,

12/10/2009 20:00:53
Gordon brown and Mandelson were about to privatise El Megrahi and sell him back to Libya, but the release on compassionate grounds under Scots Law put paid to that.
273

hoblar,

12/10/2009 20:05:40
The IRA bombers and killers, and their union loving equivalents were released by the UK government........some of the atrocities they were involved in were beyond belief.

I take it that was the Westminster Labour government showing "compassion"?

I agreed with the release as it has led to peace.

I agree with the moral release under Scots law of Megrahi, however I DISAGREE with Gordon Brown's fiendish plans to release him on the compassionate grounds of his mucking up the UK economy and not missing an opportunity to crawl to the very very rich Libya.

Whatever you do, if you are in Scotland and have a vote, DO NOT vote for any party other than the SNP, because if you vote SNP, you will see SNP Members of Parliament in Westminster, and they are the best to fight for Scotland against the twin sisters of Labour and Tories.

cheers
274

Elmer Fudd 2,

12/10/2009 20:51:14
Oh boy! just phwoned my buddy Brown

EF: It’s me Bwoss! Ian Gway the Elmer Fudd of politics!

Nutjob: Ah Murphy, have you dealt with Salmond yet?

EF: Heh heh heh, yes Bwoss, I bwast away at him evewy Thursday, even our own side take cover with fwight!

Nutjob: Good, just keep him away from me as he rips me a new one every time he see’s me

EF: Heh heh heh, what a joker you are Bwoss, evewybody woves ewe up here

Brown: Listen Murphy, you don’t have £12,415 that I can borrow until I submit my next set of expenses?

EF: Heh heh heh, no Bwoss, but I’m sure Jacqui Smith will have a whip wound for ewe.

Nutjob: Are you taking the … never mind, how’s the campaign going in Glasgow North?

EF: Heh heh heh, we’re bwasting away at ‘em on the Scotsman site with Wufus, the Dwonkey and Fido the dwog having them running for cover.

Nutjob: Arrgghhh, we’re doomed, doomed I tell ye

That’s all for now folks!
275

Observer,,

Glasgow 12/10/2009 21:04:22
I hope Donkey is having a lie down in a darkened room. The man is clearly not well. In fact pretty much all of the unionist posters today seem rather bonkers, I guess it must be the strain of trying to defend the indefensible. At least Fifi hasn't accused anyone of wanting to kill her, well not yet anyway.
276

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 21:57:27
Another day another humiliation for the moron unionist shills.

Sleep well in the knowledge that the morons will start their own humilating demise with the first post of tomorrow's Hootsmon. What would life be without regularity?
277

BlackDouglas2,

The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 22:31:54
280 Justin Timbercake,12/10/2009 17:44:48
"267 BlackDouglas2,The UK is bankrupt 12/10/2009 17:25:08
264 Justin Timbercake,12/10/2009 17:17:30
"Brown and Darling saved our bacon."
They caused the problem in Iceland moron.
----------------------------------------------

"HAHAHAHAHA

Yes of course they did.

HAHAHAHAHA, Dear oh Dear.

It was more likely that Jonah Salmond jinxed them with his Arc of Prosperity comments."

Hey moron, it seems you can't read a full article. Check this quote out then:

Eva Joly, the French prosecutor brought into sort out Iceland’s banking kleptocracy


---- Therefore, she concluded: “Mr. Brown is wrong when he says that he and his government have no responsibility in the matter. Firstly, Mr. Brown has a moral responsibility, having been one of the main proponents of this model which we can now see has gone up the spout.----

What a shame that moron is exposed yet again. What is true though is that the UK is bankrupt.
278

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 13/10/2009 00:02:06
264 :- 'Brown and Darling saved our Bacon ...'

Your either joking or you need to lay off the drugs !

Firstly - in the literal stance they support the EU which controls our agricultural policy - so they couldn't save our Bacon if they tried - they'd have to ask permission from Brussels first .... ! Can you remember getting a vote on the EU ? or the Lisbon treaty as Labour promised !

Ok - now on to what you actually meant ... at very best they took us all out to sea - threw us overboard with an anchor around our necks .. and then claimed to save us from drowning when they 'heroically' came to our rescue!

They saved nothing in the good times, they let the banks take wild risks under their noses, they have built a massive expensive government and created 5 million phoney jobs !

Justin, lad, the fact is that they cooked our bacon and they ate it long ago!


279

KD,

13/10/2009 09:27:22
1. Iain Gray has accepted that Labour are in trouble and likely to lose the next election
2. The SNP run a minority administration and get support for their policies on an issue-by-issue basis and that seems to have gone quite well!
3. If Scotland were independent...we wouldn't have this issue!
end of
280

hoblar,

13/10/2009 17:48:17
"Iain Gray has accepted that Labour are in trouble and likely to lose the next election..."

They have been in trouble for years, and in Scotland Gray is the root cause, as well as the utter dunderheids he leads who have no policies for Scotland and merely take the Westminster line in our Holyrood Parliament.

Of course they are in trouble!
281

Vista,

13/10/2009 23:14:49
24.Brianwci,

"The Scot Nats are still top of the pops in all polls and are in a very strong position to be major players in any Westminster balance of power scenario."

The SNP are the mere recipients of protest votes! They also seem to garner a number of votes from people who appear to be in the habit of skipping their medications regularly!
282

Darien,

Panama 16/10/2009 10:12:34
#1 Group Capt: "No, a vote for the Nats is a vote for a bunch of lying, incompetent, treasonable opportunists"

Aye, any 'threat' to your beloved British 'nation' (sic) is regarded as "treasonable". To you and your kind the very thought of a Scottish nation is "treasonable". Like Broon says, he would do anything to stop Scotland leaving his beloved British state.

You are all British Nationalists by another name. Lets just hope you don't get too fundamentalist about it when the Scots decide to let you go.
283

Spannerstherevengein3D,

17/11/2009 06:16:29
Reguritated garbage. This old chestnut wont cook anymore when you have the Tories in Red telling you a vote for somebody else will put in the Tories in Blue you have to wonder where the value of the propaganda lies?

Everybody now knows you either vote for the Tories either in Red or Blue or you dont.
If you dont want to vote Tory then vote SNP.

Simples.
284

Spannerstherevengein3D,

17/11/2009 06:24:06
278

Different name same stupidity.
An Independent Scotland within the EU will be controlled by Brussels but Scotland within the union within the EU wont.
Instead we will be controlled by Brussels via London and thats much better for us as a nation.

Its like telling the French to hand over control of their EU commitments to Berlin because they cant deal with them themselves.

 

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