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Brown in crisis talks with Labour MPs as he battles 10p tax rebellion



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Published Date: 22 April 2008
GORDON Brown, the Prime Minister, held an emergency meeting with Labour MPs last night in a bid to face down the threat of a major Commons rebellion on the scrapping of the 10p income tax band.


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He was addressing the Parliamentary Labour Party for the second time in a fortnight as an "olive branch" offer of looking again at the losers under the tax changes was greeted coolly in the Commons.

Some 70 backbenchers and half-a-dozen ministerial aides have publicly voiced concern over the changes, which were announced in last year's budget and came into effect this month.

The government will next week face a showdown with rebels over an amendment being tabled by former minister Frank Field, which would delay the scrapping of the 10p band until measures are introduced to ensure that low-paid workers do not lose out.

Yvette Cooper, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, said that an ongoing government review into child poverty would be widened to include childless couples hit hardest by the changes.

This will report in time for the pre-Budget report in the autumn and may make recommendations for further tax changes in next year's budget.

But there would be no immediate changes to the tax code, Ms Cooper said. "We will be consulting with stakeholders, with MPs and with different groups within the next phase to tackle poverty," she said.

One Labour backbencher, Jim Cousins, immediately warned Ms Cooper that people were already losing out in their paypackets – the changes came into effect earlier this month – and could not afford to wait a year.

George Osborne, the Shadow Chancellor, said: "Judging by Yvette Cooper's mauling by Labour backbenchers in the Commons, government attempts to buy off the Labour tax revolt have failed.

"MPs of all parties know how unfair it is to target tax rises on the poorest – and desperate promises of future seminars and studies won't help 5.3 million low income families who are being hit by the government. We now have a government fighting itself when it should be fighting for the country."

Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg said: "After weeks of pressure, all this tired government has been able to come up with is yet another review.

"This is a desperate attempt to calm Labour MPs who are taking the blame from voters for Gordon Brown's decision to hit some of the poorest workers with a big tax rise for the sake of easy headlines."

Earlier in the day, the Prime Minister defended his tax policy as he addressed the Scottish TUC conference in Inverness.

Mr Brown acknowledged that there was a "debate" over the scrapping of the 10p rate but insisted that the tax regime he had put in place as Chancellor had helped thousands of low-income families.

He said: "We have done more as a government in the last 50 years on poverty than any other government.

"I can say today that, as a result of what we have done, and I know there is a debate about 10p taxation, as a result of what we have done, three million families with children are, since 1997, £80 a week better off.

"And as a result of what we have done, two million pensioners, because of the pension credit, the winter allowance and everything else we have done including free TV licences, are £40 a week better."

In the Commons, Ms Cooper disputed that 5.3 million families would lose out once larger winter fuel payments were taken into account.

She said half of those losing out did not actually fall into the lowest income brackets. Aides explained later that she could be referring to wives who earned small amounts but whose husbands were on large salaries.

Ms Cooper said many had gained under Labour, though not necessarily this year. "It's not always possible to help everyone," she said.

But Labour MP Frank Field said: "I hope the government will be able to find its way, not to unstitch the budget, but to bring forward specific proposals to ensure that those on the lowest pay are not worse off."

REBEL WITH A CAUSE

FRANK Field, the former welfare minister, quit his only government job in 1998 after just 15 months in the post.

The main reason was his falling out with Gordon Brown, who was then chancellor.

Mr Field, the MP for Birkenhead, admitted a civil war had broken out between his social security department and the Treasury – then the domain of Mr Brown.

At the time, he said: "It is entirely true that Gordon was trying to block my ideas on pensions."

A decade on, it seems the ceasefire is at best shaky.

Mr Field is threatening to table a rebel amendment calling for a compensation package for the low-paid who will suffer under the abolition of the 10p tax rate.

The welfare expert has very different ideas to the now Prime Minister on how to tackle poverty.

His pragmatic approach, favouring more self-help and fewer hand-outs, has seen the veteran MP being groomed to cross the floor to the Conservative side.

He was born to a Conservative-supporting family in 1942 but switched allegiance aged 17 after disagreeing with the party over apartheid in South Africa. He has been an MP since 1979.


The full article contains 898 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Angus Ogg,

21/04/2008 22:12:11
Spookster,

Bottle of whisky !

Double or quits ?

Want a bet on whether Frank Field will stand against Gordon Brown, or whether Frank Field will leave New Labour and go across to the Conservatives?

My bet is Frank Field will stand against Gordon Brown.

Probably soon after the May elections. I can hear it now. Gordon Brown will say: "The reason why New Labour just lost 200 Council seats is the electorate just wanted to give us a bl@@dy nose. We feel their pain at the 10p issue and Labour is listening".

This won't be enough to stop the frantic panic of New Labour marginal MP's facing being sacked by the electors within 300 days time. Their Gravy Train is headed for the buffers :@)

Enter stage left, Frank Field with enough votes to stand against Gordon Brown.

Let the Westminster Olympics start.
2

Jimmy the Pie,

22/04/2008 00:18:32
The house of cards is collapsing.
You've done well Comrade Broon - blown it all in less than a year. Some legacy you're going to have -

The Man Who Split The Union.

Excellent
3

Sanny,

22/04/2008 00:29:24
I doubt if Frank field will cross the floor to the Tory’s, I do believe he’d sooner cut his throat. He is a genuine Socialist – a very rare breed these days. This said, I do think is very possible that he will become Brown’s “stalking horse”. An action that is likely to accelerate the General Election. Frank has no worries, as he will be certain to retain his seat.

This Brown government will become known as the 10p government. As the Tory’s have failed to produce a strong enough character to lead their party to a resounding victory, it is likely there will be a hung parliament with the high probability of the MP’s of the Non-English Country’s holding the balance and the probability that the SNP will lead them.

We could be living in very interesting times.
4

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 22/04/2008 00:45:33
I think Brown was a lucky chancellor, but has been an unlucky prime minister.

In spite of his stupidity (waste, tax credits, loss of competitiveness, tax raises), the economy did well for 10 years. This was because the world economy was doing well, nothing to do with him. Now, subprime and a global downturn, (plus the 10% issue - a headline grabbing initiative of his own making) have meant he's had a tough job as (sub) prime minister.

His 10% rate change was purely for the headline rate of main tax reduction. He deserves to get a kicking for such blatant grandstanding.

He's made so many mistakes it's difficult to know where to begin. The sheer waste of cash I think is a significant factor. If he hadn't squandered so much money, he could afford to raise benefits for the poor, and lower taxes for the rest. But due to his economic incompetence, he's wasted a fortune, and we'll all pay for that.

The sooner somebody gets rid of him the better. A stalking horse or general election, it can't come soon enough. Hopefully Labour will be destroyed in the upcoming elections, and somebody will get rid of this clown for good.
5

Socrates2,

22/04/2008 00:58:17
and the SNP said ...

does this paper still claim to be a scottish paper
6

democracy,

Scottish Borders 22/04/2008 02:07:19
New Labour are STILL oblivious to the fact that both Blair and Brown are Nationalists who infiltrated this dumb party to discredit them for good and the removal of New Labour from British politics at the next election will be their "piece de resistance".
7

Loki, Angel of Death,

The Dark Side 22/04/2008 04:44:56
Let me get this right, I'm already at the lower end of the food chain because I'm poor and now they want to make me poorer.

I haven't got any more organs to sell and we didn't get that much for the kids on account of they were very thin. Having the cat was lucky, we ate the same meal nine times but every good thing must come to an end.

I thought my vote might change things but westminster made sure it didn't.

Time for the revolution people, we're the only country in the world that hasn't had one so our time is now, surely?

Gimme the tools for the job and I'll lead the people to victory.

We'll have a better democracy where the majority rule and ethnic minorities can't manipulate our system to their own ends.

We'll bring back hanging, corporal punishment will return to schools. Children will learn that there are consequences to their actions and the first bleeding heart politically correct person to say we can't do this will be hailed a traitor. They will become the saturday night hanging, "live at nine, don't miss it"

What will I tell the children, oh I forgot, I already sold them.

Revolution now, the labour party are dying and there's no real opposition to put up a decent fight.

I don't care if I upset anyone, I'm poor and the government want to make me poorer. We shout at the chinese for their human rights abuses, why don't we shout at our own government because of how bad things are? Okay I will, but then I'll be arrested I could end up in jail getting three meals a day, en suite toilet and tv in my cell and a chance to take a degree at the tax payer's expense? Guess I'll just need to rob that post office and make sure I get caught.

"That's a stupid thing to do" I hear you cry, I'm poor, I might actually be better off in prison, have you thought of that?

I feel as though this country is dying, slowly but surely as all control of it lost and the door is opened for Brussels to come and save us. Cue the rise of the anti-christ a
8

Traquir,

Alba 22/04/2008 05:29:37
Interesting comment from Labour MP Gordon Prentice

"The fact is that if the Budget goes down, if this key clause goes down, then I don't think the government can survive."

see - tinyurl.com/4a6fwt

Perhaps Alex will have Westminster dancing a Scottish jig sooner
than expected :)
9

M.T.,

22/04/2008 05:40:11
"He was addressing the Parliamentary Labour Party for the second time in a fortnight as an "olive branch" offer of looking again at the losers under the tax changes was greeted coolly in the Commons."

Losers? Don't like the terminology!

Bad enough being low paid, insulting enough being taxed more to give to the higher paid, without being called losers.
10

Castaway,

22/04/2008 06:46:15
Out of 355 Labour Party MP's some 70 Labour backbenchers have publicly voiced concern over the changes, does this mean that vast majority of the other Labour Party MP's agree with the decision to abolish the 10p income tax rate ?
There are 41 Labour Party MP's who represent Scottish constituencies, I wonder how many of those are amongst the 70 ?
11

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 22/04/2008 07:10:45
10

Aye socialism is alive and kicking in New Labour right enough.
12

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 22/04/2008 07:12:26
6

It certainly looks that way their behaviour is incredibly bizarre to say the least.
13

Gilmartin,

Philippines 22/04/2008 07:13:47
C'mon Broon, raise taxes so as you can send even more billions of our money to Africa.To hell with the indigenous working class of this country whom your party once stood for and now only the BNP do.
14

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 22/04/2008 07:16:39
Those earning big sums forget how important are small sums to those earning the minimum. All MPs should be paid only the mimimum wage once a year, just to remind them and keep them in touch with the real world.

At the next election there should be an election pact in Brown's constituency so he's up against only one candidate and can't squeeze through via any split vote. (Of course Labour may sponsor spoiling candidates under other names, so that needs to be watched for).
15

Roy,

22/04/2008 07:30:17
When the 10p tax band was introduced, I seem to recall New Labour gloating over its introduction.

What's changed?
16

Bob Christie,

22/04/2008 07:32:27
#10
You are absolutely spot on.

It does appear that the majority of Broon's Liebour Party and hence members of that party do actually support the Liebour Party policy of hammering the poorest to help the better off.

You actual get that confirmed on this site because none of the rank and file members of the Liebour Party post any opposition to the policy.
17

conservative,

Fife 22/04/2008 07:40:11
My wife and I, both pensioners, are around £200 a year each worse off because of this. Good old Labour, working for the pensioner as usual - not!.
18

McX,

22/04/2008 07:43:35
Roll up roll up, who will be the next leader of the Labour party?

Ed Balls MP

David Miliband MP

Harriet Harman MP

Alan Johnson MP

Douglas Alexander MP

Ruth Kelly MP

Yvette Cooper MP

Andy Burnham MP

Des Browne MP

Alistair Darling MP
19

Phil C,

22/04/2008 08:03:47
Typical of hypocritical, bent and incompetent Labour MPs. They cry their crocodile tears when their seats are in danger, months after they could have done something about it!
20

Phil C,

22/04/2008 08:05:32
Let's see if these weasley Liebour MPs stand up to Brown and the babbling Darling.
21

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 22/04/2008 08:06:21
Er, isn't this the 2007 Budget? Didn't any of the 'concerned' Labour halfwit MPs scrutinise the legislation when they voted for it a year ago? Or foresee its consequences for the low paid? Anyone would think they'd just voted like sheep 'cause they'd been told to by the Whips........
22

,

22/04/2008 08:07:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 22/04/2008 08:20:02
There was a Labour MP on tv last night who claimed that “six out of five” of his constituents who had complained about the 10p tax hike had got their calculations wrong and were actually beneficiaries of the tax increase.

That comment just about sums up the calibre of those who make up the Labour Party.

Their threatened “rebellion” on the 10p tax band reminds me of a comment attributed the late Oliver Brown.
“………..and a shiver ran round the Labour benches, looking for a spine to climb up.”
24

Castaway,

22/04/2008 08:33:01
If the 10p rate was such good idea in 1999, when Mr Brown introduced it, why is it a bad idea now?

When the abolishing of the 10p tax rate was announced more than a year ago, in Gordon Brown's last Budget as Chancellor, it didn't not cause much of a fuss then.

Reinstating the 10p rate of income tax could cost as much as £8bn, so anyone wanting to reinstate it will have to raise taxes elsewhere or cut spending.
25

JimC,

Kilmarnock 22/04/2008 08:47:09
If last nights visit by Brown to his own MP's demonstrates anything it is that he is out of touch with his own backbenchers and secondly that he has lost confidence in his own chancellor. And so by next week all the so-called rebels will sleep easy in their beds thinking they had done their bit for the common working class man and their socialist principles are intact. How very wrong they are.
26

Mike555,

22/04/2008 08:56:38
Why only 70 MP's against this unjust removal of the 10p band.

Could we name and shame the others who obviously agree with it. How many of these are Scottish I wonder.

Unelected Broon needs to go and the May elections will see how the country thinks of him.

27

Bob Christie,

22/04/2008 09:02:14
#25
The problem is compounded by the fact that Darling is a Chancellor in name only. Broon has never relinquished nor ever will relinquish the Exchequer.In the real world Darling's knowledge of finance would not even get him a job on a supermarket check-out.
28

Gtj,

Dundee 22/04/2008 09:10:45
I know this is probably a stupid question, but does anyone know what has happened to AM2?
29

Publius,

London 22/04/2008 09:25:06
#24 Castaway

The figure isn't 8 billion. It's 800 million or a bit less that is being taken from those who are losing out. The 8 billion comes from a junior minister who was on Any Questions on the radio last Friday. I can't remember her name but she is innumerate.

Since the government can find 24 billion for Northern Rock, 50 billion or maybe double for the other banks, it can find 800 million for the poorest people.

The underlying cause of the mess is Brown's fiddling with taxation bands and tax credits. The amount you are paid should not depend on whether you have children or how many: it should depend on your job and how good you are at it. (Child allowances are a very good thing but they should be entirely separate from the tax system.) The tax threshold should be as how as possible with as many low paid workers as possible taken out of the system.
30

Publius,

London 22/04/2008 09:26:24
correction. In post #29 for 'how as possible' read 'low as possible'.
31

Peter,

Labour, socialist? Haaaaah! 22/04/2008 09:34:12
Just popped over from the Herald to see what Scotland's newest red top was saying about Brownovitch.

Interestingly the posts are equally at odds with the anodyne nature of the article printed at the top of both threads.

Seems Brownovitch you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

The silence from Wendy on this attack on the vulnerable two year olds is deafening!
32

Phil the Flooter,

Perthshire 22/04/2008 09:36:53
These Labour MPS do not have a backbone between the lot of them. They will make a lot of noise but Come the vote they will supinely roll over.. As always.
33

Phil C,

22/04/2008 09:47:29
#29 Publius

For once I just about agree with you. However, I would put an earnings cap on child allowances- say higher rate tax payers don't get them.

Brown's meddling has been a disaster. Unfortunately, we will all be feeling the effects of his pretend prudence for many years. I think you should cut Scotland free now. Might be easier to sort out the mess!
34

Castaway,

22/04/2008 09:54:07
#29 - Publius - The Conservatives say the government should reinstate the 10p tax rate - a move which would cost £8bn. - Channel 4 - 19 Apr 2008
What is at stake ? The cost of reinstating the 10p rate would be £7bn to £8bn – money that has gone towards eradicating child poverty. The Government wants its opponents to say how they would fund that. The Independent - The 8 April 2008
Reinstate the 10p rate? Not a chance. That would cost £7.2bn this year and £8.6bn next. Darling simply doesn't have the money for the simple reason that it's been spent on cutting the standard rate to 20p.- burningourmoney - April 20, 2008

35

JayDeeTee,

22/04/2008 09:57:26
Liebour Party deserves all it gets (which will be a good kicking at the next elections),
36

JayDeeTee,

22/04/2008 10:00:47
Disgraceful that this party will not allocate £8bn to help the poor, yet are prepared to spend £50bn (and the rest no doubt) to prop up rich banks and obscenely rich shareholders. Shame on them.
37

11+failed,

the pans 22/04/2008 10:07:59
#24 Castaway
"When the abolishing of the 10p tax rate was announced more than a year ago, in Gordon Brown's last Budget as Chancellor"
Gordon didn't announce he was abolishing the 10p rate. He announced the reduction of the standard rate from 22p to 20p. You had to read the small print in the budget report to discover that the 10p rate was being abolished to pay for it.
38

puskas,

East kilbride 22/04/2008 10:10:00
Olympics in London now to cost + £8bn..
39

Phil C,

22/04/2008 10:10:08
#24 Castaway "If the 10p rate was such good idea in 1999, when Mr Brown introduced it, why is it a bad idea now?"

I think it was a good idea in 1999. It was Brown's bright idea to get rid of the 10p band because he thought he had a better idea. He would fund the new 20p band without it costing him anything. He was playing games so that he would seem nice. He got the headline news he wanted last year. Most folk wouldn't really be affected. The Tories were a bit slow to react and Brown was seen as a tax cutter (for 2 minutes) until the truth became clear 12 months ago.

Unfortunately for him, even Labour voters aren't as stupid and selfish as he thinks they are. They care about the poor and they saw right through his trickery, eventually! Unfortunately the Liebour MPs have been extremely slow and it's taken them until now to react!! Time to put these duffers out to grass!
40

Castaway,

ex Top Pans 22/04/2008 10:13:02
#37 - 11+failed - Mr Brown's decision to cut the basic rate of income tax from 22pc to 20pc next year will give families £8bn, an extra £308 each. But removing the starting rate of income tax will simultaneously take £7.3bn, or £282, back from them. So the average household will be only 50p better off a week as a result of these changes - Telegraph - 23/03/2007
41

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 22/04/2008 10:24:36
I still reckon that Jeremy Clarkson should be PM. He wouldn't stand for any of this nonsense. Also maybe have The Hamster as Chancellor and Capt Slow as Minister for Transport.

Errr... No. The other way round actually. As a Real Ale fan, you could at least bank on the Capt to drop the price of booze!

42

bluehead,

edinburgh 22/04/2008 10:27:25
we will now have the usual bottling out process by the labour politicians
democracy! some hope!!
what a pile of rubbish we have running a country
poor old britain!!!!!
43

Methalions,

22/04/2008 10:40:04
Olympics now up to + £9.3bn..
44

Doh,

22/04/2008 10:54:22


We must increase taxes on poor people to pay for public sector pensions.

According to the Sunday papers the cost of publci sector pensions has risen by the equivalent of 1p on income tax. It will rise further.

Anyone for early retirement?
In the private sector that is called resignation.

Labour are quite right to tax the poor, this should encourage them to get a better paid job.
45

brownlie,

22/04/2008 11:34:29
39 Phil

"Unfortunately for him even Labour voters aren't as stupid and selfish as he thinks they are. They care about the poor and saw through his trickery ..."

How wrong you are, Phil, - us unionists have not had our cold, clammy hands on power for decades without knowing how the electorate thinks and acts.

Labour realise that people have short memories.

Labour will rely on getting votes from those who lose out on the abolition of the 10% because of the insidious and constant message that they care for the poor.

Every single Scottish Labour MP will tell the electorate that they stood up against the abolition of the 10%.

They will rely on those who benefitted from the cut from 22% to 20%.

There will be a massive bribe in the form of tax cuts just prior to the next election.

These facts might be unpalatable but are nonetheless true.

46

Iain Bhern,

22/04/2008 11:40:26
#40 "So the average household will be only 50p better off a week"

Rio Ferdinand £120,000 per week
Me £300. per week
Average wage £60,150 per week.
Get my drift?
47

Publius,

London 22/04/2008 11:50:16
#34 Castaway
#40 Castaway

In your post #34 you appear to have swallowed government spin. The extra taxes being raised from the 5 and a bit million people who have lost the 10 per cent and get no tax credits is 70/80 million, not 8 billion.

As you rightly point out in your post #40 the figure of 8 billion is the cut in tax rates from 22 to 20 per cent. The government line is to say that the cost of changing the budget to help those who are losing out would be 8 billion. It is a deliberate distortion but channel 4 seems to have swallowed it - at any rate in the programme you saw.
48

Mike555,

22/04/2008 11:53:10
Funny how bendy Wendy has been amazingly quiet in all this.
49

Methalions,

22/04/2008 11:54:26
46

Correct. It's the old argument about median salary & mean salary.
50

The Strategist,

22/04/2008 11:57:30
#4 FedUpTaxPayer

You said "In spite of his stupidity (waste, tax credits, loss of competitiveness, tax raises), the economy did well for 10 years."

I disagree. We've had ten years of the wrong sort of growth and the economy is now considerably weaker than it's ever been.

51

Spock Undercover,

22/04/2008 12:16:44
Mr Ogg,

22:12:11

How do you do that, may I politely ask? It seems far cleverer than impersonation.
52

Spock Undercover,

22/04/2008 12:20:18
#28,

He's still posting on the West Coast Bugle. Seems to get a milder form of kicking over there.
53

,

22/04/2008 12:47:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
54

,

22/04/2008 12:50:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
55

Methalions,

22/04/2008 13:01:42
54 Noris

You posted yesterday at #450. I checked my posts after that. I simply mentioned that the post by "anus" had disappeared. Highland Mighty's posts were faked.

Check again. I abused no-one. Possibly you got mixed up.
56

,

22/04/2008 13:05:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
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57

westview,

in contempt 22/04/2008 13:05:35
Well now we know what socialist labour spends our taxes on .. Nuclear missiles from America, fat cat bankers bonuses, and increases for rich polititians.
58

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/04/2008 13:10:16
The Tax threshold should really have been raised to compensate for the aboltion of the 10p rate.

Brown is now stupidly trying to turn this into a vote of confidence. The thing is - many on the Labour benches would be happy to see him lose - win a vote of confidence then go in the autumn.

I wonder what the odds are of Labour having a new leader by the end of the year?
59

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/04/2008 13:13:35
#29 Agreed Publius - the 10p rate was just a way to avoid raising tax threshholds - that in my opinion is a better way to deal with those at the lower end of the pay scale. Better to be paying little or no tax at all than even a 10p rate.

Was the 10p rate not introduced though because it was actually cheaper than raising tax threshholds?
60

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/04/2008 13:16:56
"36 JayDeeTee,22/04/2008 10:00:47
Disgraceful that this party will not allocate £8bn to help the poor, yet are prepared to spend £50bn (and the rest no doubt) to prop up rich banks and obscenely rich shareholders."

This has to be the most idiotic comment of the day. It shows your complete lack of undersatnding of the economic situation. If the BoE had not interveend in Northern Rock (and elshwere) then the worst hit would not be the banks or shareholders by us poor mugs paying higher interest rates and bank charges or even worse facing repossessions.
61

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/04/2008 13:21:58
"38 puskas,East kilbride 22/04/2008 10:10:00
Olympics in London now to cost + £8bn."

One of the major reasons for having the Olympics is to regenerate east London - a region that contains some of the poorest areas in the UK. Whilst £8 billion may seem a lot to put in it would cost substantially more if it were a wholly publicly-funded venture. My main reason for supporting the Olympics coming in 2012 is not for the kudos or the impetus given to our national sport but the benefits of rebuilding the local economy and infrastructure.
62

weewumman,

Bristol 22/04/2008 13:23:35
#7 "Let me get this right, I'm already at the lower end of the food chain because I'm poor and now they want to make me poorer."

Me too! I had few treats before but even they are impossible now! However, I have every confidence that me and the majority of other pensioners will be teaching Gordon Brown and Labour a severe lesson in the next election.

Maybe he should have counted how many of US there are, never mind low wage earners. Those two sections of society can be a force to be reckoned with.

You have been warned Gordon Brown!
63

Spock Undercover,

22/04/2008 13:35:57
Noris,

In yesterday's incarnation, #56 wrote to his sparring partner, "***hungry***bucket", "LOL you can ***s in my bucket anytime LOL i have a big open a*** LOL. (Post 395 in response to 394 and others on the thread).

Don't feed the trolls but bait them if you enjoy the sport!!!

64

brownlie,

22/04/2008 13:51:58
56 son of

Are you Auguste Comte in disguise?
65

,

22/04/2008 13:55:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
66

Spock Undercover,

22/04/2008 14:03:50
Alfred E Neuman was a more tasteful monicker. Brought back happy memories of MAD.

What, me worry!

67

Publius,

London 22/04/2008 14:07:00
#61

There are better - and a lot cheaper - ways to regenerate east London than through the Olympics.

These are well known - the government buys derelict land, cleans it up and sells it on to developers to build factories, offices, shops and houses. Given the location - not very far from the City and Docklands, by the high speed rail from Folkestone to St Pancras, it doesn't take a genius to see cleaned up land in this area should be worth a lot. A well managed project might even might a profit. It certainly wouldn't lose 8 or 9 billion and counting.
68

Publius,

London 22/04/2008 14:11:23
#60 Re banks.

Prior to Brown's rearrangement of bank regulation, the Governor of the Bank of England would have made sure that banks did not become over-extended. He would have a quiet word before they went belly-up. This wouldn't have cost the taxpayer anything.

Today regulation is divided between the Bank of England, the FSA and the Treasury. None of them has an overview, so none knows what is really happening.
69

,

22/04/2008 14:15:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
70

Spock Undercover,

22/04/2008 14:15:14
#68,

Exactly correct. Responsibilities have been transferred/ delegated/ abdicated to the point where you cannot get past the pointing fingers to get to the truth.

71

Geoff,

sa 22/04/2008 14:15:35
66Spock Undercover-yes I miss Alf too. He bears an uncanny resemblance to one George Bush dont u think?
72

Spock Undercover,

22/04/2008 14:17:36
#69,

Unless you also have a Blue Peter badge your opinion is worthless!
73

Spock Undercover,

22/04/2008 14:18:18
#71,

LMAO - good one!
74

Alan B,

22/04/2008 14:20:46
Publius

"There are better - and a lot cheaper - ways to regenerate east London than through the Olympics."

While that is correct the problem the government have is: How can u justify giving more money to London without giving similar amounts to other parts of the UK?

They did this with the Dome. The biggest cost there was the clean up and the tube extention.

There is no-way they could justify giving so much to improve London transport without giving the rest of the uk so they dressed the issue up with the Dome.
75

Alfred E. Neuman,

22/04/2008 14:24:58
Ah-ha! Fret ye not me little beuaties!

Right?!... what was I on about? ... ahh yes, why the SNP are so dire, but alas, that will have to wait until tomorrow (you know Salmond has forked something up.)

But today it is Labour taxing hospital porters and construction labourers because we need pointless middle-managers to have extra cash to buy their already rotund children more ponies and ice cream sweetie bars.

Shameful. Immoral. Pathetic.

I hope England and Wales give labour the "good news" next week. They are only marginally worse than the SNP.
76

Janis *,

london 22/04/2008 14:29:55

Latest ICM polls have narrowed Tory lead, & would give Labour a very small hold on on government, if a General Election were held.

Next week elections are local & likely to be a big protest vote, they often are.
77

ptdoug,

22/04/2008 14:30:51
BREAKING>>>>

Salmond at STUC calls for 'social partnership' with unions. The Herald.

Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond today set out to woo union bosses by stressing how they and his administration were working together as "social partners".

He gave a list of areas ranging from a resumption of council house building to the centralisation of fire brigade control rooms, as an example of their common interest.

Mr Salmond's speech to the Scottish TUC, the first to that gathering by an SNP First Minister, also set about demolishing some of the arguments for the Union fielded yesterday by Prime Minister Gordon Brown.

The Prime Minister had argued that being part of the UK gave Scotland bigger clout on the world stage.

But Mr Salmond was today applauded when he told the Inverness conference: "No doubt it is a substantial influence to participate with the United States of America in an illegal invasion of Iraq.

"Just because something is of substantial influence doesn't make it right and doesn't make it positive.

"The contribution I would like to see Scotland make is a contribution to international peacekeeping and a reconciliation of differences, not to illegal invasions or Iraq or anywhere else."

He was also applauded when he went on: "It may be a substantial contribution to the world to have Europe's largest concentration of weapons of mass destruction in one of the most beautiful areas our country.

"But it doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it a positive contribution."

The loudest applause, however, came when the First Minister announced that Scotland's biggest ever hospital build project will be entirely publicly-funded.

The £842 million project will see an integrated children's and adult hospital built on the site of the Southern General Hospital in Glasgow.

Mr Salmond said that after "rigorous" examination, the Scottish Government had chosen the conventional public finance route rather than a non-profit distribution
78

ptdoug,

22/04/2008 14:31:46
Cont....

The £842 million project will see an integrated children's and adult hospital built on the site of the Southern General Hospital in Glasgow.

Mr Salmond said that after "rigorous" examination, the Scottish Government had chosen the conventional public finance route rather than a non-profit distribution model which, although better than the PFI model, was not the best or most effective option.

This project, the biggest single capital investment in the history of the health service in Scotland, would have a "transformational" effect, creating thousands of jobs and bringing an economic benefit of "hundreds of millions" of pounds to Glasgow and the west of Scotland.


79

brownlie,

22/04/2008 14:38:37
75 Alfred E.

Alfie, is it really you? Keep talking nonsense - that will confirm it!
80

Alfred E. Neuman,

22/04/2008 14:47:54
79 Browneye

It is. My interpretation of your moniker will confirm.
81

itsmeisntit,

toilet 22/04/2008 14:54:13
Brown in crisis ?

what crisis - hey fatty can you come up with something to deflect this story , bulima, brilliant

damn it didnt work - ok food crisis thats good one, let go with it ...
82

brownlie,

22/04/2008 15:00:24
80 Alfred

Good man, Alf, give us some ammunition - we've been starved of it so far.
83

rancid brown,

22/04/2008 15:30:41
I like watching the snakes squirm. NuLabour are a slippery bunch who'll do (and say) anything to stay in power.

Wouldn't it be funny if they won the next election? A distinct possibility now that they've allowed millions of EU immigrants enter the country. Those selfish '97, '01 and '05 NuLabour voters should be made to suffer as middle England has suffered for the past 11 years.

By the way, I'm glad to read that a Tory MP has defected to UKIP. Hopefully one of many.
84

Andrew Allan,

22/04/2008 17:39:25
Is it just me, or wasn't it obvious that if you are in government and your ratings in the polls are dropping like a runny nose, and you were ment to be the champions of the poor, you are not going to do yourselves any favours by kicking the more vulnerable in the teeth.
85

JimC,

Kilmarnock 22/04/2008 17:45:49
Homeowners will have enough support to ensure that their homes are not repossessed, the government says. The comments came after key mortgage industry figures met Chancellor Alistair Darling and Housing Minister Caroline Flint at 11 Downing Street.

Very Socialist of them, now what about those in social housing on poverty wages getting evicted for £400 rent arrears, I am waiting to see what help they get! Seems Labour are now involved in a class war, them and us.
86

Damy Ruby,

22/04/2008 17:49:13
All great comments but what we need is to put up the best MPs the SNP have at the next general election to take both Brown and Darlings Scottish seats. You cant be an MP let alone a cabinet minister if you don't have a seat and to see both these b******* out of a job would be so worthwhile! They could go to Poland as plumbers.
87

An Beal Bacht,

22/04/2008 18:01:24
86Damy Ruby, 22/04/2008 17:49:13 wrote:

"You cant be an MP let alone a cabinet minister if you don't have a seat ..."

While you are correct regarding being an MP - being one is predicated on winning an election. However, not only can you be a member of the cabinet - you can be PM without having been elected to office. All that is required is for the party you are affiliated with to elect you as leader to become PM, or be appointed by the PM to become a member of the cabinet.
88

Andrew Allan,

22/04/2008 18:08:42
#83.,rancid brown, 22/04/2008 15:30:41
‘Wouldn't it be funny if they won the next election? A distinct possibility now that they've allowed millions of EU immigrants enter the country. Those selfish '97, '01 and '05 NuLabour voters should be made to suffer as middle England has suffered for the past 11 years.’
Hell you nearly had me there rancid brown, but then you said ‘suffer as middle England has suffered for the past 11 years.’ You must be kidding, if middle England had suffered for two seconds within the first two administrations nu-labour would already be history. Btw none of the last batch of immigrants from eastern europe are likely to be able to vote until the general election after this next one.




89

nostress,

grangemouth 22/04/2008 20:52:29
An Beal Bacht - don't forget their noble Lordships...one or two of those unelected chancers got Cabinet posts.
90

Paula,

22/04/2008 23:51:46
Isn't this country great. Fuel prices up, food prices up, energy prices up, tax for the lowly waged up.

No wonder so many people are leaving!

And as for this idea that it isn't going to harm people with children (which if I had no kids would annoy the **** out of me, what are sections of society more valuable than others?) Anyhoo, even if you have tax credits you'll still get hurt, not by much but still rather in my pocket than theirs!

Everyone on low wages should quit and go on benefits. They seem to be doing quite nicely for doing quite nothing!
91

Home Brew,

23/04/2008 00:10:48
#90,

So true. Long live the revolution!

 

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