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Direct call from Bush to prompt talks with Dalai Lama



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Published Date: 27 March 2008
GEORGE Bush, the US president, has personally asked Hu Jintao, president of China, to begin "substantive dialogue" with the Dalai Lama, the White House said last night.
Mr Bush also urged Mr Hu to allow access for journalists and diplomats to Tibet, in what is the highest diplomatic approach yet.

Earlier, Beijing had accused Michael Portillo, the former UK defence secretary, of delivering an "insult to the C
hinese people" after he compared the Beijing Olympics to Hitler's 1936 Games in Nazi Germany.

In a statement, Qin Gang, the foreign ministry spokesman, criticised an article by Mr Portillo published in a Sunday newspaper.

"It is an insult to the Chinese people and an insult to the people of every nation of the world," Mr Qin said.

In his article, Mr Portillo invoked the use of the Berlin Olympics as a "showcase for Nazism", and he admonished world leaders for ignoring China's human rights record.

The first group of foreign journalists to visit Tibet since rioting there earlier this month arrived in Lhasa yesterday on a strictly controlled tour, part of a government effort to demonstrate that life is back to normal despite the heavy police presence.

The visit came as Chinese state media announced the surrender of more than 600 people who took part in the anti-government protests in Lhasa and in Sichuan province.

The group of 26 reporters were closely watched during the trip, and a bus drive from the airport passed three police checkpoints.

Single police officers were also stationed at almost every crossroads on the way.

At one checkpoint about five uniformed officers were stopping cars. One officer, Cun Luobu, said they were only checking "for people not wearing seat belts, for violating traffic rules and for having fake number plates."

Armed police in camouflage uniforms were stationed at government offices, with machine guns strapped across their chests.

The government says at least 22 people have died in Lhasa. Tibetan rights groups say nearly 140 Tibetans were killed, including 19 in Gansu province.





The full article contains 346 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 26 March 2008 10:38 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 27/03/2008 04:04:00
Since when does that Madman Bush believe in dialogue? Ever since taking over power in the USA, he has steamrolled over everybody and every country that doesn't agree with his lunatic way of thinking. Tough to take that Idiot seriously, in fact, impossible to take that Idiot seriously. Now there's a real dictator, which our president in China is not. We don't invade and occupy other countries, we don't get involved in the politics of others, and we do what we have to do to keep OUR house in order, nobody else's.
2

postmark54,

Chongqing City, China 27/03/2008 04:38:17
Galactic Cannibal,
I was disappointed, to say the least, with your racist little comment, "two whites don't make a wong". I would hope, when you reflect on that, that you would apologize. Thank you. You and I are at odds about most things, but I do admire that up until now, you have commented with your heart, and not just blindly have followed like so many others have in these postings. I know you have compassion for the rights of others, where a great deal of the other postings are signs of people just jumping on the bandwagon, and riding their high horses. You at least acknowledge that you leaders are cruel and evil, and have spoken out about that on many occasions, whereas the rest think that they are beyond approach. Thank you again, Galactic Cannibal.
3

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA....captured from Mexico 1845 27/03/2008 04:40:34
1
postmark54,
Chongqing, China
--------------------------------

u wrote
and we do what we have to do to keep OUR house in order, nobody else's.

Yes Dude U sure do that!!

By crushing the liberty and speech freedom of the 1.3 billion Chinese .

OH yeh, U keep ur house in order just fine dude.

And lets not forget the FORCED ABORTIONS of 7 to 11 million Chinese women each year.

Lets not forget the mass executions of 10 to 15,000 Chinese every year .

Yes dude, U keep ur house in order by tyranny just fine

GC
4

postmark54,

Chongqing City, China 27/03/2008 04:57:16
Galactic Cannibal,
I am just making a point here that the government of China did what it HAD to do to keep these violent riots from spreading. That is what we call, responsible governing. I have Tibetan sources, who agree with this action 100%, for they were there and witnessed this out of control mob indiscriminately burning and killing what and who got in their way. You had better hope that your government would do the same to protect all the innocent people, or chaos will rule your country, something that I'm sure you would not want to see happen.Again, what were you thinking when you made that inexcusable racist statement? That undermines everything that you have said in the past, and that makes it quite diffcult to believe that you indeed care about human rights. I have already told you that I'm completely opposed to the death sentence and abortions, going a long way to back up my concern for human rights, if in fact there is such a thing, any where.
5

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 06:13:17
This is all we need, Bush meddling. The US already sponsors and trains these separatist terrorists. It has already instigated one bloody uprising in its continual efforts to destablise China. I hope Hu tells this meddling man and his interfering warmongering government where to go.
6

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 06:22:05
By crushing the liberty and speech freedom of the 1.3 billion Chinese .

OH yeh, U keep ur house in order just fine dude.
Galactic Cannibal,
I can see why you don't object to your press lying as your seem to manage to do that all on your own. Please provide the links to back up your outrageous statements.

"And lets not forget the FORCED ABORTIONS of 7 to 11 million Chinese women each year."

Once again, forced abortion is not the official policy of the Chinese government. It happens, yes, but to a few thousand women at the most, not millions. Forced abortion is bad enough without you having to fantasize about the facts.

"Lets not forget the mass executions of 10 to 15,000 Chinese every year."

Again a lie. China executed 6,000 people last year. They were all criminals. For the record, Taiwan and Singapore and 12 other countries execute more people per capita than China does. Executions in China have dropped 40% since China was awarded the Olympics. The court system has been changed so that the supreme court has to approve every execution.

7

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 07:00:55
You people all wail on about human rights. What about the rights of Chinese citizens?
If Tibet is torn from China - as the CIA has rightly identified - China will suffer. There will be famine, flood and social unrest on a scale unimaginable to you. Is this what you want? Is this how you care for people?
8

Bob Christie,

Boycott the Beijing Olympics 27/03/2008 08:16:50
Mashimoro:
Stop trying to defend the indefensible. Your Government is an odious blight on this planet and on humanity.
I would be pleased if the Chinese government ACTUALLY gave its citizens basic human rights.
9

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 09:49:57
Bob, which CIA agent taught you to use the term "odious blight"?
Tell me, what basic human right would you like to see in China and what would its consequences be.
10

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 09:54:03
Ah yes 'criminals'...those evil Falun Gong followers who have the audacity to publicly demand the right to exist..well they get what they deserve do they not...a bullet in the back of the head....60% of 'harvested' organs from 'criminals' are of Falun Gong origin...this is after they have been tortured...burnt...beaten..given electric shocks on their genitals...sexually abused....

So tell us....if this is what you do to the Falun Gong...a mere pain in the neck according to you...what do you do with the folk who make far too much noise and criticise your own regime?.....

The Chinese people will have a voice...and it will not be via the 'People's Daily'...

7....Please elaborate on your second paragraph.
11

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 09:56:32
http://organharvestinvestigation.net/report0701/report20070131.htm#_Toc160145104
12

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 10:02:37
Take a look at a map of Tibet and work it out for yourself, troll.
If you can think for yourself at all, that is.
13

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 10:03:25
11# and what has that got to do with Tibet, exactly?
14

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 10:22:59
12..Nice evasive answer..

The people from Tibet and China share the same oppressive regime..which you are aware of...suprised you had to ask that question.....you do realise, dont you...that China is infamous (amongst other countries)throughout the world for its human rights abuses??

I am assuming you are aware of that...Tibet only being one part of Chinese suppression??

Its the wider picture mate...the wider picture...

BOYCOTT THE OLYMPICS!

FREE THE PANCHEN LAMA!!
15

Bob Christie,

Boycott the Beijing Olympics 27/03/2008 10:33:28
Confucious say: All apologists for evil, odious, insidious, pernicious, brutal, dictatorial and vile pariah government of mainland China are barking mad!

Free Tibet! Stop the brutality
16

Neil,

Glasgow 27/03/2008 11:00:34
I wonder what Bush's reaction would be if the Chinese called for talks between the US government & street gangs in San Diego on how the US should give up sovereignty of that, majority Mexican, city?

My suspicion is that he would not be grateful even though it is a more dangerous place than Tibet or pre-war Kosovo.
17

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 27/03/2008 11:03:18
Mashimaro, my great comrade,
All these dimwitted postings from that collective bunch of dimwits, come from the extreme hypocrites. They should be boycotting there own governments for the human right abuses it inflicts all over the world, ie; Iraq, Afghanistan and where ever they feel the need to plunder, conquer and decimate whole populations. Alas, they are extremely mentally challenged and no-one can get it through their thick heads. We will keep on fighting and holding our heads up high, for we as a nation stay within our nation, within our borders, and only do what we have to do at home, here in China. We and our government do what desperately needs to be done, and that is called responsible governing.
18

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 11:15:50
17..."Our borders"...that is currently being debated...."Responsible governing"...= murder, suppression, oppression, torture, corruption..If you have nothing to hide why silence your people?...why imprison protestors who then vanish?...why close down newspapers who say to much?..why murder people who chose to follow another way that does not fit in with your communist 'ethics'??????

If you have nothing to hide why silence your people?
19

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 27/03/2008 11:23:30
Horrible Cankers,
Once and for all, there is no such thing as 'a' or 'the' Panchen Lama, if their is, please provide the proof. You can't, just like with Santa Claus and all of your other western fictional characters. This is just another fine example of how filled with concrete your head really is. You just keep on making ludicrous statements, and nobody can understand how that absurd mind of yours thinks, if there indeed is any thought process at all. It is as bad as Proximaking's little fairy tale a few days ago, after I pointed out to him how stupid he really sounded, he seems to have dropped out of sight. This would be a very wise thing to do for you as well. Like I told him. you are posting to adults here, we are way past that Santa Claus stuff. Can you comprehend that, oh thick headed one?
20

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 11:40:29
Yes postmark we do what we have to do to protect our people. We know that the squawking donkeys are a front in the CIA's attempts to once again destroy communism and break China down. One thing our people have learned is how to endure. We have values that these degenerate whiny people who can't even hold their own nation together can only dream of. They will never understand values of family and humility, endurance, education, hard work and nationality. They can't even explain how come the Dalai Lama has a Chinese title - oops.
21

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 11:51:22
12. Ah troll troll troll you give up so easily. You can learn much from the Chinese. I'm surprised since you snapped up the other little truths I've been feeding you quite well. Things I might add that you were not even aware of.
I guess that shows your committment to the cause.
Maybe you should go back to South Africa.
Please tell me why you're not sqwaking about Mongolia being freed.

FREE MONGOLIA go on, I dare ya.
22

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 11:54:05
19...So why did the Chinese government admit to the United Nations committee in 1996...that it held Gedhun Choekyi Nyima (Panchen Lama) and his family in 'Protective Custody'

and why...

has the 'Chinese appointed' Panchel lama (Chinese puppet) been quoted in the 'China Daily' saying..that he..

"Resolutely supports the Party and the Governments efforts to ensure the safety and stability of Lhasa"?

Santa Claus?...

I am looking forward to your explanation..
23

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 27/03/2008 12:04:39
Mashimaro,
As I pointed out to you in my last posting to you, we are dealing with dimwits here, who just can't get it through their brainwashed little minds.
You spoke of family values, and China indeed has great and traditional family values. Having come from the west, believe me, family values are becoming a rare thing. That's why they have these "old folk" homes, to stash away their parents and grandparents, so much for human rights there. Those places are just business institutions, and the people within their care are continuosley abused and neglected. There again, so much for human rights. This unspeakable crime is committed every second of everyday, but that is swept under the rug. In the mean time, they just keep pointing fingers at China, easy to do when half way around the world. The Dalai Lama is a coward, having jumped ship, leaving the passengers and crew to fend for themselves. What a nice captain he turned out to be, and to this day he is stirring the pot from a safe distance, actions from a coward, not a leader. In the seafaring community, actions like his would not be tolerated, for captains have a moral duty and responsibility to do what it takes to keep those under him, and his ship safe. His ship being Tibet.
24

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 12:09:03
Answer the question.
25

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 12:12:00
The Panchel Lama has been silenced but the Dalai Lama has not....'coward?'...even you are not that thick...he has ensured that the plight and voice of the Tibetans is kept in the public eye...by continuing to live...the Chinese regime would have imprisoned the Dalai Lama and he would never have been heard from...even you know that...just like they did with a 6 year old child...

What did you do with the real Panchen Lama?

BOYCOTT THE OLYMPICS!

FREE THE PANCHEN LAMA!!
26

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 12:13:59
Troll, why don't you answer the question about any pictures showing the "crackdown" that supposedly happened when all those camera-bearing tourists were in Lhasa
And why don't you tell us why no one gives a crack about Monglia.
27

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 27/03/2008 12:14:13
Horrible Cankers,
Show me the proof that he exists, in previous postings you have questioned if he is alive, well, sorry to disappoint you once again. fairy tale characters are not alive, and therefore do not exist. Still waiting for that proof, imagine I will be waiting for a long time, tough to come up with proof when none exists. By you not being able to prove that he exists, is all the proof I need that he doesn't exist. I do realize that in you I'm dealing with someone who has lost all train of thought, so I take you with a grain of salt, make that a pound of salt. The bit of brain you have, has been washed, your rantings confirm that.
28

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 12:15:47
23...You are taking your time D.head...answer the question or are you still feverishly googling 'China Daily'..

Straight from the mouth of Communist China..heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh he heh heh....;
29

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 12:17:18
27....THANK YOU...that is all the answer I will ever need!
30

postmark54,

Chongqing City, China 27/03/2008 12:28:05
Galactic Cannibal,
I am still waiting for you to step up to the plate and apologize for that incredibly racist statement you made yesterday. You know the one, and I quote you Galactic Cannibal, "Two whites don't make a wong". If you can't do at least that, not one word from you will be credible anymore, not one word. All your so-called concerns for human rights have just been a way for you to be heard, not for you actually caring. Absolutely dispicable Galactic Cannibal, absolutely dispicable.
31

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 12:40:02
"despicable"...
32

Biker,

Ayr 27/03/2008 12:52:43
Once again we read the musings of Charman Postmark and his right hand man Mashimo.
As I see it Mashimo. Horrible Canckers has provided proof of the arrest of the Panchen Lama but you refuse to accept it as fact, even though the UN has reams of paper aluding to this.
Chairman Postmark. Your sycophantic and personall assaults do nothing to progress this discussion. Should you actually have something sensible to contribute, I await with trepidation.
No matter how offten or frequently Human Rights are mentioned and by how many, these people do not regard the argument as either cogent or proper. A bit like their government, and as long as fools like these appologise for the situation the authorities regard it as the green light to do as they please.
With regard to the question of invasion or interferrence by China. Lets include Tibet and Zimbabwe. The amount of money and support being afforded to Zimbabwe is not for altruistic reasons, more likely to influence and support Mugabe and remove the mineral riches from the area.
Oh and by the way, in case there is any rebutal giving my so called anti China stance, let me tell you now. Should the UK still be in Iraq (which I suspect they will) I will call for a boycott of the London Olympics and the Glasgow Commonwealth games also. Human Rights are far more important.
33

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 27/03/2008 13:09:14
Biker,
Why don't you step up to plate and boycott everything made and produced in your country now, for your armed forces are in Iraq now. Pretty easy to talk big about four years from now, but then again, why do it now when you can put it off until tomorrow.
All your so-called facts are distorted facts, done so deliberately so that the west will keep fearing and hating communism. Until you reside here in China, and can back up those "FACTS", keep your fight at home with your evil government. For once do the actual right thing, and boycott everything from there. By your produce and whatever youbuy, from some other place, and then we will talk again. If you can't do that now, rather than four years from now, you will reveal yourself as the ultimate hypocrite.
By the way, I asked Horrible Cankers for the proof, Mashimaro did no such thing. Again, you are pointing the finger at someone who is innocent, as China is. The proof that the little fairy from the tale doesn't exist, lies in the proof that nobody can prove that he does exist.
34

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 27/03/2008 13:12:12
Horrible Cankers,
Thank you for seconding that motion regarding Galactic Cannibal.
35

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 13:22:21
Byker, the Panchen Lama was not my discussion. I'm more interested in the CIA funded fairy story the Dalai - I'm just a quaint liddle Tibetan with a chinese title - Lama.
I'm still waiting for proof of the mythical "crackdown", btw.
36

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 27/03/2008 13:23:40
To all of you who are Anti-China, you actually support a complete madman like Bush, or do you all at least agree that he is the last one to have any say about anything, including China? As far as Condoleeza Rice goes, we have all the rice that we need here, thank you.
37

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 13:25:00
Biker... what has Zimbabwe got to do with lying about events in Tibet?
38

Partan,

Fife 27/03/2008 13:42:30
#1 Postmark
Perhaps you can add "don't have access to history books" in your list of Chinese "don'ts".
I don't entirely disagree with your assessment of Bush though, even if it's a bit overblown. If we criticise China, or any other government for that matter it, does not follow that we must therefore be in agreement with everything our governments have ever done. The subtle difference is that we're still allowed to publicly disagree. But then you already know that, don't you?
39

Biker,

Ayr 27/03/2008 13:45:07
Whew!! what a rant Posty. I am at present comfortable with my position regarding what I buy or not as the case may be. Whether now or in the future.
China is assuredly NOT innocent and perhaps reading the post sent yesterday by Mashimaro would go some way to understanding why many people in the west are annoyed with China. The facts are correct and can be corroberated from different sounces as well you know. Shutting your eyes to the facts do not make them go away. If China wants to operate within a 21st century world then surely the rest of the world have the right to expect levels of behaviour.
Where I do agree with you is that Bush has no place in discussions about human rights. But 2 wrongs do not make a right.
Mashimara . HC #22 asked the question regarding the Panchen Lama which has not been answered. You also said that China does not get involved in any other countries polotics. I said yes they do and mentioned Zimbabwe. Try to keep up.
Tell us the name of your newspaper Mashimaro, I need to see your version of the truth. I need to see if your assumption is correct about the CIA.
40

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 27/03/2008 14:06:52
Biker,
Again, need I remind you that it was I, postmark54, who had the beef with Horrible Cankers, you just don't get it , do you? This is why you don't listen to us people from China, for you have made up your mind as what to believe, you are losing credibilty by the second, eventhough you had not much to begin with. I told you, post#33, mashimaro told you, post#35, but you insist that it was mashimaro that had the beef with Horrible Cankers. Why don't you back up and read the postings again, and maybe then it will become clear to you, maybe. I shoulder the blame for that, for it was me asking for the proof, leave mashimaro out of it.
Mashimaro,
Sorry that my words are landing you in hot water, I openly admit that it is indeed me asking for the proof, and not you. Posting #33 clearly states that. Once again, sorry that Biker is hauling your name through the mud.
41

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 14:13:03
Biker: Yet another tangent to avoid answering any real questions - like why your press is lying to you.

However, Zimbabwe is an excellent example. Let's review Zimbabwe and your government's role in that disaster. There was malcontent, you government backed down. The malcontent became violent, your government backed down further. Stupid people, like yourself, supported the violent criminals under the guise of "human rights". And then as the crowning glory, your government installed the leader of the country, Mad Bob Mugabe. Hooray for human rights!
There's a drama that has played out again and again eh?
42

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 27/03/2008 14:15:53
Biker,
I am at present comfortable with what my government is doing, preserving our future. My government is protecting the innocent population at large from rioters with a true mob or Biker mentality. Disband the mob, by whatever means necessary, do the same to Bikers, and your problems are solved. Both above mentioned parties are only brave when together, separate them and they become puusy cats. that is what my government has rightly done, and again, that is responsible governing. You call my postings ranting, that is your opinion, you are entitled to that.
Now be a man and apologize to mashimaro, it was my beef with Horrible Cankers.
43

Mashimaro,

China 27/03/2008 14:20:41
Understand that if your CIA financed "human rights" campaign ends in Tibet being wrenched from China it will bring death, poverty, starvation and flooding to Chinese people, in Tibet and China, the poorest in the country, the peasant farmers and their families. Is that what you want?
44

postmark54,

Chongqing City, China 27/03/2008 14:23:59
Galactic Cannibal,
Still waiting for an apology, but your time is quickly running out, and so is your credibility. You've had since yesterday to reflect on your racist statement, so that leads me to believe that you are comfortable with that.
All this time you have knocked Dragonhead for avoiding some of the things you requested from him, you avoiding this vital point is much more important.
45

Bob Christie,

Boycott the Beijing Olympics 27/03/2008 14:33:39
The following is on the wires from AP:

Tibet Monks Disrupt Tour by Journalists
By CHARLES HUTZLER – 43 minutes ago

LHASA, China (AP) — A group of monks shouting there was no religious freedom disrupted a carefully orchestrated visit for foreign reporters to Tibet's capital Thursday, an embarrassment for China as it tried to show Lhasa was calm following deadly anti-government riots.

A Foreign Ministry spokesman later insisted that Tibetans had full rights and warned Europe not to interfere. Meanwhile, the Dalai Lama, the region's exiled spiritual leader, said he was in touch with "friends" about pursuing a dialogue with China, adding that Chinese authorities "must accept reality."

Officials arranged the trip for the reporters to showcase that Lhasa was at peace after the mid-March violence and a subsequent government crackdown shattered China's plans for a smooth run-up to the Beijing Olympics.

The outburst by a group of 30 monks in red robes came as the journalists, including an Associated Press reporter, were being shown around the Jokhang Temple — one of Tibet's holiest shrines — by government handlers in Lhasa.

"Tibet is not free! Tibet is not free!" yelled one young Buddhist monk, who started to cry.

They also said the Dalai Lama had nothing to do with the riots by Tibetans in which buildings were torched and looted and ethnic Han Chinese were attacked. The government has said the March 14 riots were masterminded by "the Dalai clique," Beijing's term for the Dalai Lama and his supporters.

Government handlers shouted for the journalists to leave and tried to pull them away during the protest.

46

Bob Christie,

Boycott the Beijing Olympics 27/03/2008 14:36:01
Would it not be more appropriate to transfer the Olympic Games to the legitimate government of China based in Taiwan?

47

Bob Christie,

Boycott the Beijing Olympics 27/03/2008 14:38:19
Could the agents of the pariah-China government in Beijing who are posting above let us know the web addresses of Chinese newspapers where we can leave OUR posts so that a wider debate on this subject could be had?
48

Vaughan,

Canada 27/03/2008 16:11:06
Postmark54...

Manoman,are you ever an infant. The Dalai Lama tried to talk to your hero, the freedom loving Mao. Then the BIG part of the invasion of Tibet came while we in the west wre looking with horror at the U.S.S.R,'s 1956 and beyond crushing of uprisings in Hungry and the other "Warsaw Pact' nations. The Red Chinese came to KILL the Dalai Lama and his main advisors pointed out that with him dead, that was the end. I really hate people (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt on that point) who write history they were not part of or know nothing about. He stayed until he was dragged out! Tell me Mao had peaceful intentions towards Tibet. He looked the Dalai Lama in the eye and said... "Religion is Poison!'
In Canada, we had many thousands of refugees from China, more from the USSR and various satellite nations. One family went to Russia in the'70's and it was front page news. I am not calling for a boycott of the Games or what have you. However, you and your 'friends' seemto have absolutly no knowledge of the world, much like Bush and his Chinese counterpart. And yet all of you have the internet... Stop taking, you have nothing to say.
49

Vaughan,

Canada 27/03/2008 16:20:15
Dear Mr Postmark...
I apologise for my spelling on the last sentence of my comment. Sadly, it ruined one of my complaints.
It should have read:
"Stop TALKING, you have nothing to say".
I don't know about you, but I feel better for having cleared that up. I trust you do as well?
Regards...
50

should have gone to specsavers,

Thurso 27/03/2008 16:44:50
#36: > "To all of you who are Anti-China, you actuall"

I think I resent the implication that readers in the west are 'anti-china.'
We have plenty of ignorant loudmouths, yes, but I havent seen more substantial arguments from your side.
You claim that the disturbances were sponsored by the CIA for example; without evidence that seems hard to credit. If an agency had sponsored disturbances they would have timed them to actually disrupt the olympics, instead of a few months too early to remembered when the olympics are going on.

Although I will agree that we in the west dont have much right to complain about affairs in china, and in fact, if we do complain we are hypocrites. I was told that in 1904 the british put troops in Tibet, I'd never heard that before but if true then it would be just one more example of an embarrassing sense of hypocrisy I feel when people from my nation complain about affairs in other peoples countries.

Zimbabwe: Once a british colony called Rhodesia, under colonial rule natives were 2nd class citizens.
China: Opium wars.
India: peaceful demnstrators machine-gunned.
Northern-ireland: death-squads killing young male catholics so that the native population would be weakened.
etc... etc...

I'm sure the complaints about the chinese governments actions in Tibet have some basis in truth, not becuase I'm anti-china but becuase whenever power acumulates it is abused.
Allegations of traditional nomadic lands having villages built on them so that ethnic han people can crowd out the natives, allegations of chinese soldiers raping tibetan nuns, death vans, forced abortions, etc. I'm sure some of those allegations are true, not becuase I'm anti-china but becuase thats the sort of thing *we* did.
51

James Donald,

Newbridge 27/03/2008 16:49:27
#36 postmark54,Chongqing, China - "To all of you who are Anti-China, you actually support a complete madman like Bush" - Don't think so matey. Not everyone who is "unenthusiastic" about the regime in Beijing is a supporter of Dubya. In any case, I do not see myself as Anti-China; I have the greatest respect for Chiang Kai-shek.
52

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta 27/03/2008 17:22:28
44
postmark54,
Chongqing City, China 2
-------------------------
Hey Dude ,
I have no idea where U are coming from. U say U are a Canadian , a great and free country where all its citizens, vote for their political leaders of choice.

And the Canadian people can can criticize their country policies, and leaders in public anytime, they feel like doing so .

And now U live, and seem to support a tyrannical communist regime in CHINA. Where its 1.3 billion citizens cannot vote for their political leaders.

Like Dude, where the hell are U coming from. Have U rejected Freedom of speech , liberty etc.in favor of tyrannical communism . its beats me dude.

Now to the remark I made which U claim is racist and despicable.

Dude I am no racist . I look at everyone for what they are, and what they can do . That's it, I don't care if they are Yellow , Red . Black or white .

Its all about CAN they do the job they seek, effectively and not screw up.

And I stand by my remark . It is not racist .

If it were racist, it would include a specific component, such as prejudice, or discrimination, based on the belief that race is, the primary factor determining human traits and abilities.

My remark contains no such component or insinuation.

Its all in ur mind dude.

Now chill out and relax

GC
53

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........Hillary for Pres....Barack Hus 27/03/2008 17:29:33
26
GalacticCannibal,
Murrieta, CA...bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil leaders. 27/03/2008 16:31:30
----------------------------------------------
Hey Dudes there is no country on the planet like the USA my country.

Its 310 million citizens have a 'Gung Ho' attitude, that is found no where else on the planet .

Our election process now in full swing, is about a mixture of FREE SPEECH , Liberty, Corruption, Lies, Truth, etc all mixed in there.

In my opinion as a voting American
I think that
Barack Hussein Obama ,
could be all smoke and mirrors. Comes across great on TV

Hillary Clinton,
is predictable, and could run with the hare or chase with the hound. comes across poorly on TV

John McCain ;
Is an out and out WAR monger, but in no way is he stupid like BUSH. And he comes across like a staid fossilized, inside the Beltway, politician.

When the Chinese had their so called election 2003.

Hu Jintao and Xi Jimping were elected President and V. President .

But not a single Chinese from the masses of 1.3 billion were allowed to vote for these two politicians.

So dudes when U want to rant and rave, and attack my country, feel free to do so. That is ur right if U live in a free country.
But save a little of ur ignorant vile for the crushed masses living in CHINA.

Visit any US Embassy any place in the world, and U will see lines of people waiting to apply for entry to the US.

Can U say that about CHINA India , Russia, etc, Hell NO.
GC
54

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 17:38:56
34...P45, merely correcting your spelling of "Despicable" sweetie pie...the Cannibal made a crap joke, it was not racist..you are merely using that to deflect attention from questions...

Typical Chinese government tactics when they try to bring someone down....you attempt to debase them..insult and degrade them...particularly those whose mouths are too big for communist feet to fit...repeated insults and 'character assassinations' are classic Chinese oppressor methods to ruin people...writers...journalists...human rights campaigners...it has worked particularly well with the Falun Gong....

Don't work here though... you actually look like a caricature of a Chinese Government Official in full flow... bet you didnt read that in the index of 'How to avoid looking like a caricature' in your wee red book eh?
55

,

27/03/2008 17:45:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
56

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 27/03/2008 17:57:54
55
Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,
-----------------------------------

Dude I think U are wrong believing P45 is D.head.

Just compare the rantings of D.head with the very bias comments of P45.

They just don't match.

In my opinion D.head does not have the ability, to make such a dramatic switch in scribe and comment.

I know it would be hard for me to make that kind of switch ,
Maybe I could do it, if I wrote a scribe while on a shroom trip. But otherwise NO

Dragonhead has disappeared from the Chinese communist Radar . No Idea why

GC
57

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 18:03:46
I have my suspicions GC because he was giving it the big kow tow to you and trying to suck up your bahooky mate..now if he were trying to convince us that he was not D.Head then the best thing to do would be to try and ingratiate himself with you, which is what he was trying very hard to do...in fact it made me want to puke...but this is another Chinese Government tactic to try convince people that they have some credibility...quite interesting stuff, you should read about it on the net...their methods and tactics re tearing down their critics are vicious and not very subtle...like old P45 here...perhaps D.Head has not disappeared after all...anyroad whoever KC and his sunshine band are...they are as transparent as a cheap condom..and not half as useful...
58

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta..smell the smoke 27/03/2008 18:09:45
57
Horrible Cankers
---------------------------

I'll say this dude U have a great sense of humor at times. Wish I had the same ability.
u wrote:
"they are as transparent as a cheap condom..and not half as useful..."

That's really hilarious dude.


59

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 18:39:29
58..I have a feeling in my gut...they aint going to share your mirth GC......
60

Vote SNP !!! !!!,

Where else 27/03/2008 19:02:31
#57 Horrible Cankers

You need to clean your act up.
61

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/03/2008 19:07:44
60..Already have Sweetie pie...you mean you had'nt noticed?....
62

Power2engineer,

USA 27/03/2008 19:44:08
China has gobbled up Tibet for almost 60 years and chinese have crushed peaceful voice Tibetan people world community need to put pressure on China to free Tibet and boycott Olympic game.
63

Power2engineer,

USA 27/03/2008 19:44:48
China has gobbled up Tibet for almost 60 years and chinese have crushed peaceful voice Tibetan people world community need to put pressure on China to free Tibet and boycott Olympic game.
64

Power2engineer,

USA 27/03/2008 19:46:08
China has gobbled up Tibet for almost 60 years and chinese have crushed peaceful voice Tibetan people world community need to put pressure on China to free Tibet and boycott Olympic game.
65

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta 27/03/2008 20:11:05
60
Vote SNP !!! !!!,
Where else
-----------------------------------
RE: #57 Horrible Cankers

U wrote
You need to clean your act up.
-----------------------

Hey Dude what exactly do U mean ?

Free speech does not discriminate against words any words.

Chill Dude
GC

66

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 27/03/2008 20:58:45
30
postmark54,
Chongqing City, China
-------------------------------
Hey dude read the following and respond
GC

Tour of Lhasa Shows
Wide Scope of Unrest
By SHAI OSTER
March 27, 2008 4:15 p.m.
LHASA, China -- A government-led tour of Lhasa nearly two weeks after antigovernment riots by Tibetans sparked a continuing wave of unrest showed that authorities were ill-prepared for the violence and that it spread far beyond the religious core of the ancient city.
Even as officials insisted calm had returned to the ancient city, Lhasa's three main Tibetan Buddhist monasteries remain locked down, surrounded by armed police. Monks aren't allowed out and journalists aren't allowed in while police continued their investigations into the March 14 incident.
Pelma Trilek, executive deputy chairman of the regional government said 414 people, mostly Tibetan and including monks, had been detained, with 314 still held pending police investigations. Other groups allege many more have been detained. Mr. Pelma said that they are being supplied food, water and electricity. "We have exercised great restraint. The situation is getting stable. Law and order are basically restored," he said.
He repeated government claims that the unrest, which broke out four days after monks in Lhasa marked the March 10 anniversary of the failed 1959 uprising against Chinese rule, was planned and premeditated by the Dalai Lama ahead of the Beijing Olympics. But he declined to offer any proof. "We have ample evidence which are still collecting and will release in due time," he told a group of foreign journalists who are the first allowed back into Lhasa since the violence.
Yet even as the government insisted the violence had been instigated by a small group of monks, it was apparent from interviews that a vast number of people had joined in and that other factors were at play. One government official said that many of the people joining in the looting were unemployed youth. An injured Chinese
67

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 27/03/2008 21:03:51
#66 contd:

policeman who has lived in Lhasa for 20 years said that the unrest had spread far beyond the several blocks of the city's core and that many police were injured because they tried to show restraint when responding to the unrest. He said police were unarmed and didn't carry batons or shields when he was attacked.

Reporters hand-picked by China's government arrive in Lhasa, China, marking the beginning of an organized tour of the region following violent demonstrations that erupted earlier this month. Video courtesy of Reuters.

Government officials took the journalists on a tour of Lhasa and tried to underscore the brutality of the violence during the incident, in which, they said, Tibetans rioted for a day and half, burning and looting mostly businesses owned by ethnic Han Chinese, and Muslim Hui, but also symbols of authority in an outburst of anger against the government.
The veneer of calm and sense of return to normalcy were briefly shattered during the tour when a group of about 30 monks surrounded reporters visiting the Jokang, the center of Tibetan spirituality, and said they were being held without being allowed to leave.
They said worshipers in the temple and the square -- which lies at the heart of narrow stone alleyways of the old Tibetan quarter and which had been hardest hit by the violence -- were government sympathizers brought in for journalists to view. Officials denied that the government had vetted that day's worshipers. They also said the monks who had spoken out wouldn't be punished. The previous evening, the square and the temple had been sealed off by police, who closed them down again soon after the incident. Mr. Pelma said the 117 monks inside the temple wouldn't be allowed out until after police wrap up their inquiry.
The journalists also visited damaged buildings -- hospitals, the offices of the official Xinhua News agency, a government-run welfare hotel and a middle school. They were also shown injured medical person
68

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 27/03/2008 21:05:25
#66 contd:
They said worshipers in the temple and the square -- which lies at the heart of narrow stone alleyways of the old Tibetan quarter and which had been hardest hit by the violence -- were government sympathizers brought in for journalists to view. Officials denied that the government had vetted that day's worshipers. They also said the monks who had spoken out wouldn't be punished. The previous evening, the square and the temple had been sealed off by police, who closed them down again soon after the incident. Mr. Pelma said the 117 monks inside the temple wouldn't be allowed out until after police wrap up their inquiry.
The journalists also visited damaged buildings -- hospitals, the offices of the official Xinhua News agency, a government-run welfare hotel and a middle school. They were also shown injured medical personnel and police and displaced merchants who lost their livelihoods when their shops were burned.
At the Yishion clothing shop where five women had been burned to death, fresh flowers and a banner graced a shrine with their photos. The incident was given broad coverage in state-controlled media to underscore the violence. Tang Qinyan, the brother of the shop's owner, had emigrated six years ago from neighboring Sichuan province, as have thousands of others in recent years, to seek his fortune in Lhasa, contributing to Tibetans fears that they are losing out on economic growth. But he said he won't leave Lhasa. "We are all unified; there is no ethnic strife," he said.
The manager of a burned-out Bank of China building said the bank had been targeted because of its affiliation with the Beijing Olympics. "They did this because they want to protest the Games," said Yang Zhen.
Ma Chuanming, a Hui immigrant from neighboring Gansu province had his white-goods store destroyed during the violence. He was waiting for a train ticket back to his hometown at a refugee center where about a hundred others were seeking refuge after their homes and busine
69

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 27/03/2008 21:08:36
#66 contd:

business had been destroyed. The crowd were mostly Hui, reflecting their recent influx into the city. "Back home I was just a farmer, but here I'm a shopkeeper. Of course I'll come back once I rebuild," Mr. Ma said.
Write to Shai Oster at shai.oster@wsj.com

Dude I am beginning to believe Horrible cankers .

U could be a replacement for Dragonhead.

So sad very sad

GC
70

Mashimaro,

Chiina 28/03/2008 00:42:31
#50
Ah, a genuine poster at last.

"I think I resent the implication that readers in the west are 'anti-china."'

Well the one's on this board certainly are. Your press is what concerns me. The fact that they lied to you blatantly and committed the ultimate sin of manipulating photographs to make you believe that the Chinese were comitting a "brutal crackdown" in Tibet when in fact it was nothing of the sort. Yet no one seems interested in that. Actually the Chinese are to be congratulated for their handling of this criminal violence. But no one understands that. They scream for change and when change happens they scream even louder.


"We have plenty of ignorant loudmouths, yes, but I havent seen more substantial arguments from your side."

My only argument here is that your press is lying.

"You claim that the disturbances were sponsored by the CIA for example; without evidence that seems hard to credit."

If you went looking for the evidence - say googling CIA Tibet - you would find it. The US has a long history of atrocities and violence against Red Chinese. As the Sino Nippon war was drawing to a close they turned their guns on us. The Dalai lama has long been in the pay of the CIA and the CIA has trained insurgents to cause trouble in Tibet. (note not in Mongolia because mongolia doesn't have whimsical little monks to hang their ideals on). Here is a link to an article in the Asia Times you might like to read. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JC26Ad02.html
As I am moving and all my books are packed ready to ship, I cannot get you exact references from those. I suspect by the time I am settled in my new place everyone would have lost interest. We will have to see.

71

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 00:48:23
"If an agency had sponsored disturbances they would have timed them to actually disrupt the olympics, instead of a few months too early to remembered when the olympics are going on."

Not too early at all. Just in time for the torch ceremony and to build momentum for the rest of the malcontent loonies to gather their forces for the big push at the Olympics. Time is perfect indeed.

"I'm sure the complaints about the chinese governments actions in Tibet have some basis in truth, not becuase I'm anti-china but becuase whenever power acumulates it is abused."

Yes there are brutal things that have happened in Tibet. And yet not so in Mongolia. Strange that, hmm? could it be that Monglia hasn't got the CIA stirring theh pot and playing their favourite game of "you go out and get killed and then we'll use it to convince people we should go to war" we've seen it time and again.

"Allegations of traditional nomadic lands having villages built on them so that ethnic han people can crowd out the natives"

I am sure the Han used some lands to build on as it would be pretty difficult to build schools and businesses on air. However 96% to 98% of the population in Tibet is ethnice Tibetan. It also needs to be pointed out that since the Han have been there the province has become much more wealthy and much more advanced, so they brought with them progress which the area sorely lacks.

72

Mashimaro,

china 28/03/2008 00:55:44
"allegations of chinese soldiers raping tibetan nuns,"

I'm not sure that would have been official policy but given the feelings of the day it probably happened.


"death vans"

These are not in Tibet, as far as I know. All they are are mobile execution vans which use lethal injection to execute criminals, instead of having them shot. I don't see what the outcry is here as it seems to be a more humane way to kill off criminals, and is used in the USA. It's not as if the criminals have not been through trial or anything like that.

"forced abortions"

These do not happen in Tibet as the "one child" policy is not in force in Tibet. Having said that, I must once again point out that this is not official government policy, just as gang bangers, drugs and pornography are not part of your government's policy but happen anyway.

another link to the CIA propogating war in Tibet - this time from the "friends of Tibet" http://www.friendsoftibet.org/databank/usdefence/usd7.html

We see this time and time again throughout Asia - vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. If you ever go to thailand go up north and talk to some of the Karen, the CIA sponsored guerillas who are now homeless and landless.
73

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 02:10:06
#66 We did read it, and it is truthful. You notice it failed to mention the phantom crackdown.

Why do you think it is accpetable for your press to lie to you?
74

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 02:10:39
@ Postmark

Do these people really stash their old folks away in homes???
75

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 02:51:15
Amazing how my comments on Zimbabwe have disappeared - or at least I can't find them.
I'd like all the "Human Rights Activists" to tell us how great Zimbabwe has become since they managed to break the government and install Mr Mugabe. Good work chaps.
76

,

28/03/2008 09:46:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
77

Biker,

Ayr 28/03/2008 11:00:15
Postmark. I dont actualy believe for a moment that its my credibility at stake here. I have indeed read back and you are correct, both yourseld and HC were discussing the Panchem Lama so I appologise to Mashimaro for the error. However I now address the question to you , all seeing, all knowing.
Try to answer the question this time instead of the usual obfuscation and bluster. Patronising and sycophancy only cover so much bluster.

 

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