Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


Terrorists 'use Down's syndrome suicide bombers' to kill 70 in Iraq

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 02 February 2008
REMOTE-CONTROLLED explosives strapped to two women with Down's syndrome were detonated in co-ordinated attacks on pet bazaars in Baghdad yesterday, Iraqi officials said.
The explosions – which Iraqi officials said were detonated by mobile phone, suggesting the women may not have been aware of what was happening – killed at least 73 people and wounded more than 160 in the deadliest day since the United States sent 30,000 extra troops to the capital in spring last year.

The attacks happened at the central al-Ghazl market, where at least 46 were killed, and a market in the New Baghdad area.

Brigadier-General Qassim al-Moussawi, the chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad, claimed that both the women involved, who were killed, had Down's syndrome.

"The operation was carried out by two booby-trapped mentally disabled women," he said.

"Forensic and bomb squad experts as well as the people and traders of al-Shorja area of the carpet market have confirmed that the woman who was blown up there today was often in the area and was mentally disabled.

"In the New Baghdad area, the shop owners and customers of the pet market confirmed that the woman who was blown up there was mentally disabled as well," Brig-Gen Moussawi said.

"The al-Qaeda terrorists and criminals are proud of this method."

Ryan Crocker, the US ambassador to Iraq, said the bombings showed that a resilient al-Qaeda had "found a different, deadly way" to try to destabilise Iraq.

"There is nothing they won't do if they think it will work in creating carnage and the political fall-out that comes from that," he said.

Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, said the use of the women proved al-Qaeda was "the most brutal and bankrupt of movements" and would strengthen Iraqi resolve to reject terrorism. "It certainly underscores and affirms the decision of the Iraqi people that there is no political programme here that is acceptable to a civilised society," she said.

The first attack happened at about 10:20am in the al-Ghazl market. The weekly bazaar has been bombed several times since the war started but recently had re-emerged as a popular place to shop and stroll as Baghdad security improved and a Friday ban on driving was lifted.

About 20 minutes later, a second bomb went off at a bird market in a predominantly Shiite area of south-eastern Baghdad. That blast killed as many as 27 people and wounded 67, according to officials.

One witness, who declined to be identified, said the woman said she had birds to sell, then blew up as people gathered around to inspect them.

The attacks were the latest in a series of violent incidents that have been chipping away at Iraqi confidence in the permanence of recent security gains.

Jalal Talabani, Iraq's president, said a total of about 70 people were killed in both attacks, which he said were committed by terrorists motivated by revenge and "to show that they are still able to stop the march of history and of our people toward reconciliation".

One pigeon vendor said the market had been particularly busy because the weather had improved.

"I have been going to the pet market with my friend every Friday, selling and buying pigeons," said Ali Ahmed, who was hit by shrapnel in his legs and chest.

"It was nice weather today and the market was so crowded."

He said he was worried about his friend, Zaki, who disappeared after the blast, about 40 yards away.

"I just remember the horrible scene of the bodies of dead and wounded people mixed with the blood of animals and birds, then I found myself lying in a hospital bed," Mr Ali said.

The full article contains 637 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 01 February 2008 11:38 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Iraq
 
1

Finnking,

Lempäälä 02/02/2008 00:28:25
If true, horrific.

"I sent American troops to Iraq to make its people free, not to make them American. Iraqis will write their own history and find their own way."--Bush

Almost as horrific as the 500 000 children who were killed by the UN sanctions, imposed every 6 months in spite of the knowledge of the deaths. But then again, some thought it worth it; “This is a very hard choice, but we think the price is worth it.” MAD Albright. Perhaps the crazies that did that act at the market too thought it a price worth paying?

The untold numbers of kids killed during the invasion aren't known but the overal death rate in the "mission Accomplished" "liberation" of around 100 000 is known.

The event and the use of the ill and DS is sickening, if true. However, if we condemn this act, we MUST also condemn the deaths that 'we' conducted because it was "worth it".

I know that US do not sent the mentally ill into war. Bush stayed at home in the Texas Guard, did he not?
2

,

02/02/2008 00:36:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 02/02/2008 00:51:30
From the story

"Brigadier-General Qassim al-Moussawi, the chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad, CLAIMED that both the women involved, WHO WERE KILLED" had Down's syndrome.

No proof, not one shred, both the bombers blown to pieces and in all probability unidentifiable. but the Brigadier-General CLAIMS they had Down's syndrome.

The one witness quoted, WHO DECLINED TO BE IDENTIFIED, said the woman said she had birds to sell, then blew up as people gathered around to inspect them. Funny he remembers all that, but not that she had Downs syndrome.

Spin me another one.


4

,

02/02/2008 01:35:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

,

02/02/2008 01:40:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

MarkInAlpine,

Alpine, Texas 02/02/2008 02:44:20
#3. The two women were identified as Downs Syndrome persons because they were recognized by others. Apparently they were both frequent visitors to the bird market. This I read in news reports published by AP, AFP, Reuters, and the BBC, and it sounds believable. I know of three Downs people in my small town, and could identify them by sight, so this is another reason I can believe the stories published by multiple news agencies.
7

jamurai,

02/02/2008 03:13:02
no#4 Jamboing Geordie, please enlighten us as to why such condemnation would be "hypocritical".
8

Wallace MacP,

Alberta, Canada 02/02/2008 03:26:48
Again the savages strike, reaching another low, even for them. There's nothing new here anymore. Fanatical, extremist, terrorist, adherents to the religion of peace will continue to blow up themselves and others for years to come. The real news would be if they stopped blowing each other up. Until that time they'll continue committing atrocities like this and their apologists will continue making excuses for them.
9

Dáithí,

San Jose 02/02/2008 03:49:24
#1, 2 and 3

I'm going to wait a wee bit and see if this is true. I'm going to give you guys the benefit of doubt for now, because if true I don't think that even you guys could find this defensible.

Let us see...
10

Jewel of the Forth,

Fife 02/02/2008 04:11:05
#3 Mine's an 80 bob

What a flame throwing troll.
11

Bad Science,

Pueblo 02/02/2008 06:16:29
# 5

What does this mean? Who is ALF, and who is the Autism and the likes? What is a neuron typical? I just can't make out what you are saying.

i think it was the ALF and those research without cruelty people they treat all humans they consider to be beneficial and least suspecting of the truth as morons for their future health and that of their kin. Autism and the likes are more fascist than any neuron typical i have encountered.
12

W Smith,

Middle East 02/02/2008 06:21:43
"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" - George Galloway

So George, it was 'freedom fighters' who strapped explosives to two women with Downs Syndrome then, eh?

You can only stretch an elastic band so far before it snaps.

Likewise the 'its Bush and Blairs fault' excuse for these atrocities is wearing a bit thin.
13

Amani_Bunduki,

Canberra 02/02/2008 06:22:09
what utter a$$holes
14

Drum Major,

02/02/2008 06:24:50
#3 The remains of suicide bombers are usually identified as while the body & limbs a blown up the head is blown off. This provides different injuries to the victims of the bombing. Hence identify the bomb carrier and discover a Downs Syndrome additional victim. Those who sent them obviously have a greater mental disease.
15

Gilmartin,

Philippines 02/02/2008 07:30:54
A Danish paper publishes cartoons of Mohammed and Muslims worldwide are "enraged". Enraged enough to riot, kill and issue death threats.
His Holiness the Pope quotes from a long dead Byzantine Emperor and ditto- Muslims are "enraged".
I wonder how many of them will be sufficiently "enraged" by this incident to take to the streets in protest?
16

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/02/2008 08:16:52
#17 Gilmartin

Damn few. I won't expect any outraged demonstrations about what is being carried out in Islam's name. I thought I had seen it all from these creatures but to use people with Down's Syndrome, who tend to be very gentle and trusting, is the lowest yet. Rulesbutnotrulers has hit the nail on the head. To think there are doctors, teachers and youth workers who have been convicted of carrying out acts of terrorism in this country is the scariest thing.
17

Finnking,

Lempäälä 02/02/2008 08:39:32
Diathe

I never said it was 'defensible'. Never implied it. You made that up.

Gilmartin

Enraged Muslims? Well, here's a picture of some enraged Muslims picking up bit of their kith and kin, again.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/0D6CDAF7-559B-4851-93BB-8ABB6B351923.htm

Why do you focus on the notion that "Muslims" should demonstrate their outrage? Are you on the streets demonstrating your outrage? Or are you simply using this tragedy to give vent to you inherent racism?

Were the "Christians" demonstrating their outrage at the horror of Hiroshima? No, there was jubilation and glorification.
18

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 02/02/2008 09:12:27
#7 i'd like to know that too
19

Gothic Rose,

02/02/2008 09:32:21
Well what a surprise!
20

tommy,

belfast uk 02/02/2008 10:01:05
The world seems to be overun with these misunderstanders of islam--- You would think by now that the muslims who live in the uk would be going out of their way to quote the relevant sections of the koran forbidding such violence... I often wonder why they don't
21

,

02/02/2008 10:38:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 02/02/2008 11:09:50
Al Jazeera are talking about the bombers head being recovered and confirm it was a Downs Syndrome sufferer.
23

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 02/02/2008 11:40:55
I come into contact with several young adults with Down's Syndrome and know that they are the most loving and trusting people you can meet. For such people to be used in this cynical and barbaric way shows that the Muslim terrorists are people with no religious belief and no conscience and should be condemned as such by the sensible majority of their own kind.
24

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 02/02/2008 11:44:16
If this is true are we to presume that they are running out of recruits? What next suicide puppies?
25

Neil,

Glasgow 02/02/2008 12:05:19
Pretty sick - if true.

The Russians did use suicide dogs in WW2. They trained dogs to run under tanks then strapped a bomb on their back. Unfortunately the only tanks they had to train them on were Russian ones. Boom.
26

Purlie Wilson,

Melbourne 02/02/2008 12:12:11
Immediate visual identification would appear to support the use of helpless and trusting unfortunates. Which to me when and if finally proven would speak of an inhuman mindset not fit to be part of the human race and has to be eliminated wherever it is found.
Such a reprehensible act would be beyond decent rational thought.
27

Media 1,

cape town 02/02/2008 12:16:10
Most of us cannot comprehend such evil. It makes you numb reading it.
I would like to see an international law that prevented all western armies from invading any middle eastern nation. I would like to see a law that prevents all Western nations trading with Islam and Israel. Unless we cut these nations off from the rest of the world and leave them to destroy eachother, they will never progress. They need to go through the process of attaining internal peace. It may take them fifty years, it may mean that rogue armies and dangerous men get their hands on very dangerous weapons, but thats the chance we need to take. It was the west who commisioned science to invent such malicious and foul weapons to begin with, now we must suffer the consequences.
Its got to the stage that a life or death decision for all mankind needs to be made. What is happening in Israel and most of Islam will impact on all of us very soon, unless we shut them out completely. Its our only hope for peace in the future, because if it goes on like this it will just get worse.
Much of what I have said has been dispensed immediately after reading this story, so its raw! But something drastic must change.
28

moweeb,

USA 02/02/2008 12:33:37
All US military troops should withdraw from the Mid-East and let the various tribes settle their differences among themselves. Holy wars can never be won!
29

Inverie,

Fife & Canada 02/02/2008 13:19:47
Sorry, but the Holy Land is part of my Christian heritage and other than Israel it's almost impossible to practice your faith there. We need to protect Israel or those who are Christian abandon their own faith. We helped create the problem with the division of the area after both wars and by sanctioning Israel as a separate state after the atrocities of WWII which we did not prevent. The Middle East is a reality which the world must address. Ignoring Hitler did not work in WWII . . . it merely strengthened him. Ignoring the festering divisions within the Muslim world and against the West: Jew and Christian alike, is not an option.
30

Unimpressed one,

02/02/2008 13:25:07
#29, Media 1, "But something drastic must change." Perhaps not invading these countries that are fractured along tribal/religious lines would be a good start. There is only so much that western democracies can achieve. You cannot over-turn centuries of ingrained prejudice overnight by giving people a vote.
31

tommy,

belfast uk 02/02/2008 13:26:07
To infidel @23
Quote-"Sometimes they do, but whether they do or not, what they do NOT tell you is that these peaceful passages have all been cancelled and replaced by the later violent ones."-Unquote

So in fact if all the peaceful verses which were in the meccan chapters were earlier timewise than those verses from medina then by abrogation the meccan verses are no longer valid
Now if I have got that right-then these terrorists could conceivably be seen to be carrying out these attacks on the basis of what they understand the koran and the hadiths to mandate.

I am confused


32

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 15:57:23
Holy? What's holy about this land? Or, is it reference to the craters left by Israeil cluster bombs?
33

57Nomad,

california 02/02/2008 15:59:56

#30moweeb

Moweeb said:

"All US military troops should withdraw from the Mid-East and let the various tribes settle their differences among themselves. Holy wars can never be won!"

There are a couple of things I was hoping you will clarify. The first is your unspoken assumption that this is "tribal" warfare. Can you please clarify what you mean by 'tribal' and why you think that this is the cause rather than some other agenda that is being prosecuted by the bombers?

Secondly, I believe that your assertion that "holy wars can never be won!" is a violation of logical construction. Here's why. Let's say there are two groups, A and B. Because of religious imperatives the two sides find themselves at war. Now let us say that A adopts Moweebs assertion that holy wars can never be won, and, as he suggests, withdraws from the conflict. Examine, if you will, the state of affairs that results from that withdrawal. I'll give you a minute. Now, Moweeb, do you see the corner you have painted yourself into? The instant A adopted your point of view, that is, holy wars can never be won, your point of view is immediately disproved. Why? Because when A withdrew, B won. Here is where that leaves us. If one side adopts the idea that holy wars can never be won, then instantly there comes into existence a winner. There cannot be "Holy wars can't be won" and "B won the holy war." This is self contradictory and therefor void of meaning.

34

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 16:05:10
Finnking, the REAL mentality ill people are the ones who can turn this around and blame Bush and Blair for this inhumane act.
You are appeasers and apologists for the scum of the earth.
Along with you and your friends, the people who made these women human bombs are the real nut cases.

No one should expect to see protesters of moderate Islamists. These people protest only when they feel insulted and humilated by the most trivial things.
35

Erse,

Middle East 02/02/2008 16:13:09
I see that Muslim extremists have seen fit to issue The Bishop Of Rochester the Right Reverend Dr. Michael Nazir-Ali with death threats after he intimated that there might be some "no-go areas" for non-muslims in some areas of the UK but not a hint of protestation about the monstrous use of innocent handicapped in Iraq. Says it all really!
36

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 16:25:22
37 Lynne,USA: Ah, you've arisen from your coffin to feed your hatred.

So, 'real mentally ill people' are those that blame Blush and Bliar, and not the animals who abused these innocent women. But then, your support for Israeli abuse of innocent Palestinian children as shields is well documented.
37

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 16:50:51
Roberta, again you lie...it's the Palestinians who use their own for human shields. No matter what you say, it does not change THAT fact.
BTW, this is a post about Iraq.. if anyone is full of hate it's you,. It doesn't matter what the post is about, it always goes back to Israel.
take a hike
.
38

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 16:53:46
Your hate-filled rants are getting very repetitive and boring.

'It doesn't matter what the post is about, it always goes back to Israel.' Correct. It's always, when debating a problem, to go back to its source.

It's getting dark, Lynne, beddybyes.
39

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 16:54:42
...appropriate
40

Laurette,

Southern California 02/02/2008 17:06:07
Had we not invaded Iraq, based on false premises - would this have happened?
41

,

02/02/2008 17:08:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
42

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 02/02/2008 17:08:26
the sooner the people of Israel stop being so pandering to those pallystilians and just wipe them of the face of the earth the better. there is no way it is going to end in peace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys

Roberta please take time and watch this film, 18 minutes I know but at least be informed before you spout your hatred of a great people and a great nation
43

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 17:09:19
Spot on, Laurette. Saddam Hussein controlled Iraq and this would not have happened in Iraq. It might, however, have happened elsewhere.
44

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 17:13:30
Sorry, Ross Fyffe, but there are far too many more alluring and factual alternatives to a contrived jewish video, for me to watch. Too much time has already been wasted on the zionistjew.

To paraphrase your comment (which I expect Lynne will delete)'just wipe them off the face of the earth'
45

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 17:18:54
I fear Lynne is asking Daithe and Tikun what she can say next.
46

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 02/02/2008 17:18:57
Roberta you want every Jew killed?
47

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 02/02/2008 17:20:56
# 48 by the way Roberta if you watch the film you will find much of it is filmed by pallyseinians .......... I cannot respect anyone who does not look at both sides before taking a view
48

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 17:21:07
45# Ross Fyffe You want every Palestinian killed?
49

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 17:23:12
Roberta, Read it and weep

Schoolgirls chanting their defiance of Israel were among the crowd that gathered to defend the two-storey home in the town of Beit Lahiya.
Along with the girls had come old men, neighbours and militants.
All of them were ready to defy the Israeli air force. They were ready to put themselves in the line of fire.
But they knew too that a similar human shield tactic had worked a few days earlier.
The Israelis had backed off knowing that to strike would cause large numbers of civilian casualties which would, of course, have played very badly in the court of international opinion.
For years Palestinians have been completely at the mercy of the Israeli air force.
But they clearly believe that now they have found a weakness.
If they know an attack is coming they can probably foil it by massing in the target zone.
The Israelis can no longer expect to limit civilian casualties by calling ahead and clearing people out.
'David and Goliath'
Of course the tactic is dangerous and it takes courage.
Nobody rushing to a threatened home will know whether or not this time the Israelis will strike.
But for Palestinians the new strategy has benefits way beyond protecting the odd target.
The tactic is symbolically important and a propaganda coup.
From militant leaders to schoolgirls, Palestinians can unite in confronting their enemy and the passive resistance of the human shields will be admired from around the world.
The boys on the roofs, armed only with Palestinian flags and facing down war planes, are a David and Goliath image for the modern age.
But nobody should imagine that the likes of Hamas are suddenly being won over wholly to the strategies of pacifism.
If they possessed anti-aircraft guns, they would surely blaze away at the circling planes.
Story from BBC NEWS:
50

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 02/02/2008 17:23:21
# 38 not maybe some no -go areas there are some, need to take our streets back .......... ENOCH was right just understated
51

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 17:26:26
I don't watch mickey mouse propaganda videos, I seek out facts from all sides and construct a balanced argument. I have no territorial, political or religious axe to grind. But I do object to the tactics used on the SCOTTISH forum by an uneducated minority.
52

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 17:29:22
Roberta..I ask no one for permission to write anything or what to write about. I notice you can't bring yourself to even look at a video, which might prove you wrong. Your nothing but a Palestinain propagandist with little knowledge , proping up old wives tales.
A closed minded individual who has decided she/he/it knows all and sees all.
Well, we all know now, how little you know or care about truth, the world, or anything else.
Like I said before...take a hike. Maybe you should learn to become part of the human race first.
53

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 17:31:01
Roberta Burns/she/he/it..You seek no facts...you resort to lies..and then try and prove them. Unfortunately, he/she/it/ lies never change the truth.

KEEP WALKING
54

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 17:33:29
and Roberta Burns he/she/it I DON'T DELETE.. I am tired of telling you this. I've never had anyone deleted. Wish we could say the same for you. You probably delete your own posts.

KEEP WALKING
55

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 17:34:25
52# At last you are getting the point. 'The Israelis had backed off knowing that to strike would cause large numbers of civilian casualties which would, of course, have played very badly in the court of international opinion.'

And if they could have avoided international opinion, they would have gone ahead and shot the lot.

'For years Palestinians have been completely at the mercy of the Israeli air force'

And passive resistance by concerned citizens is to be lauded.
56

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 17:51:21
45# Ross Fyffe, your time-wasting link to 'Pallywood' is obscene. A jewish american produced 60 minute programme, full of insidious claims.

You and your likes will never be able to whitewash the Israelis evil sins from the consciousness of the decent peoples of the world.
57

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 17:51:32
Roberta/he/she/it

Ah, Pallywood...they should turn in these films..you never know, they could get an Oscar.
We have seen the woman who "died" 5 or 6 times, and she was also an attendant at other funerals. The teen ager who died twice.
And you are a sap Roberta/he/she/it..because you believe everything these numbnuts orchestrate!!

I just wonder, I would sincerely doubt, if this information has gotten out to the European public. or the mideast public.

KEEP WALKING
58

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 17:53:11
Roberta Burns he/sh/it
You can never pass yourself off as one of the decent people of the world.

KEEP WALKING
59

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 17:55:40
The differnce is...the Israelis BACKED OFF..the Palestinians would just shoot and keep shooting.
60

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 17:56:17
The above comment is for Roberta Burns he/she/it.
61

Lynne,

02/02/2008 18:01:48
Roberta Burns he/she/it..This is for YOU AGAIN

The “human shields” of Jabaliya
By Jonathan Kay
The Jabaliya Refugee Camp in Gaza was the scene of Palestinian celebrations today. No, a “martyr” from the camp hadn’t managed to blow up a restaurant full of Israeli families, the usual reason for joyous gatherings among Arabs in this part of the world. Rather, the locals were celebrating the victory of their “human shields” in thwarting an air strike against the home of wanted terrorist Wail Barud.
But while the assembly of hundreds of Palestinians in anticipation of the planned Israeli bombing did succeed in protecting Barud’s home, the tactic may have backfired from a propaganda perspective: It served to demonstrate that Israel does not seek to kill Palestinian civilians wholesale, as Arab propagandists constantly claim. In fact, it is clear the Palestinians themselves do not believe their own propaganda about Israel’s alleged thirst for blood. Otherwise, they never would have been able to recruit all those human shields.
If Israel really were as sadistic as its critics claim, it wouldn’t have called off today’s bombing run. Just the opposite: It would have jumped at the chance to kill so many Palestinians at one go. Just imagine if the shoe were on the other foot, and hundreds of Israeli “human shields” positioned themselves in an unguarded location in the West Bank. Palestinian suicide bombers would be jumping over one other in an effort to attack the target. “Human shields” work only when your enemy fights like a human.
A second irony is that it is men like Barud who are at the root of Palestinian misery: If they weren’t firing rockets at Israel from Gaza, kidnapping Israelis, and smuggling in weapons from Egypt, there would be no need for the Jewish state to stage counterterrorist operations in Gaza, every square inch of which it evacuated in 2005. If Palestinians were more rational about where their society’s interests lay, they would go to Barud’s house
62

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 18:02:52
60# Son of Spew - 'I just wonder, I would sincerely doubt, if this information has gotten out to the European public. or the mideast public.'

There's noone on the European continent that would swallow such garbage. That's why it is only played to the gullible american public.


63

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 18:03:59
CONTINUED..


If Palestinians were more rational about where their society’s interests lay, they would go to Barud’s house not to offer protection — but to arrest him so that others in the area can live in peace.




64

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 18:05:08
Israelis don't want peace. They want Palestine
65

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 18:06:20
That statement coming from an apologist...makes as much sense as all your previous statements and lies...

KEEP WALKING..
66

Roberta Burns,

02/02/2008 18:07:48
oooooh Son of Spew, you are really getting hot under the collar now. Time for a shower. (Am I allowed to say shower?)
67

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 18:08:45
Roberta Burns he/she/it

They don't need Palestine... it was made into a slum, and the fact that they handed the Gaza Strip over and it was made back into a slum, they don't have to do it twice. It's more trouble than it's worth.

KEEP WALKING
68

,

02/02/2008 18:56:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
69

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 02/02/2008 19:20:04
How on earth has the debate about the morality of using mentality handicapped people as bomb carriers in Iraq been turned into a battle between Jews and Palestinians? Keep to the subject please. I refrained from describing the two girls as suicide bombers as they would have no conception of what that entailed.
70

James Donald,

Newbridge 02/02/2008 19:20:21
#57 Lynne,USA - "I DON'T DELETE.. I am tired of telling you this. I've never had anyone deleted" - you posted once that you tried 5 times to have one post deleted. So what is the true (assuming you can tell any more)?
71

Finnking,

Lempäälä 02/02/2008 19:21:25
Roberta

Interesting, eh? Here's an article (if true) on some barbarians using the mentally ill in warfare and the talk turns immediately to these clowns representing an entire faith and it segues into the Palestinian issue.

Regarding the "Hamas Mickey Mouse" drivel; I would highly recommend reading about the founder of the group (MEMRI) that did the (so-called) translation and the founder of the group (PMW) that promoted the story to the ever willing US media. Hasbara.

37 Lynne,

"No one should expect to see protesters of moderate Islamists. These people protest only when they feel insulted and humilated by the most trivial things."

".....These people...." Therein we see the truth of your views. No worries, no problem, it's your opinion and that is fine.

But please do not deny that you see "Islamists" as "these people", a uniform collection, an entire and massive group all under one umbrella, packaged for your ire.

What other group in history were treated in the same manner?
72

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 19:36:59
#72 That is what they always do..they bring it to the basic leel of is is Israel's fault..for all the ills in the world.
73

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 19:37:32
the word is level..
74

Lynne,

02/02/2008 20:20:08
Just something else for you to see about the Jihad


http://www.terrorismawareness.org/
75

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 02/02/2008 20:57:46
#1 Finnking: Have you read books by Iraqis? I have. Why did sanctions kill Iraqi children? Much of the medical supplies and food arriving in Iraq were hijacked by the Iraqi Army, and armed criminal groups allied with the Hussein regime, who resold the supplies for profit - in fact the Hussein brothers raked in a lot of money by doing this. Many governments around the world also bought Iraq oil at knock-down prices, so breaking the embargo. The oil was shipped to Iran, where it would be swapped for Iranian oil which could not be detected chemically. Thus oil restrictions were rendered useless by the criminal actions of governments that are still in power today - governments that openly supported UN sanctions in the General Assembly. As Saddam Hussein was becoming increasingly wealthy and the Iraqi Army steadily better equipped, the invasion by the UK, USA and Australia was inevitable. Many governments that dabbled in sanctions-busting opposed the invasion, because doing so cost them cheap smuggled Iraqi oil.
The depraved barbaric morons who could use disabled people as living bombs are to be reviled. Such disgusting inhumanity puts these terrorists beyond all possible mercy, and beyond any hope of understanding by normal people. I have been told by Muslims that terrorists who perform such monstrous acts cannot be non-Muslim by definition, which strongly suggests that if these terrorists have a true religion it would be Satanism, and in claiming responsibility Al-Qaeda is publically proclaiming its allegiance with Satan. (Not that this worries me as a humanist.)
76

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 02/02/2008 21:01:00
Re #78: Oops, BAD MISTAKE! Last bit SHOULD have read:

I have been told by Muslims that terrorists who perform such monstrous acts cannot be Muslim by definition, which strongly suggests that if these terrorists have a true religion it would be Satanism, and in claiming responsibility Al-Qaeda is publically proclaiming its allegiance with Satan. (Not that this worries me as a humanist.)

My apologies to all Muslims.
77

Caora Dubh,

Croits sheasgair 02/02/2008 21:15:11
#74 Finnking: Many, many other groups were so-packaged. In fact almost every identifiable group in history has been packaged for someone else's ire.

The Jews were extremely badly maligned throughout Europe for centuries, being accused of sacrificing Christian children, poisoning wells, spreading the plague - you name it.

Ironically the Germans have also been "packaged": During World War 1 the British press delighted in spreading wholly unsubstantiated stories about "the wicked Huns", including (as usual and unimaginitively) the sacrifice of babies of the enemy.

The Afrikaners were "packaged" during the apartheid era as the wicked racist Boers. In fact not long ago in Hutchinson's Encyclopedia I saw the Afrikaners being represented by a photograph of a far-right neo-Nazi splinter group that drew less than 1% of the Afrikaner vote.

Way, way back we have evidence from the Torah that the Jews themselves vilified other groups, e.g. can anyone possibly believe that everyone in Sodom and Gomorra was really so incredibly evil? All the women, children, the sick, elderly, and poor? Nonsense! And the story of the Good Samaritan would have made no sense at all unless Samaritans (from Samaria of course!) hadn't vilified them.

I don't think there's any group in the world that hasn't vilified another or not been vilified in turn. Such is human nature.
78

Finnking,

Lempäälä 02/02/2008 21:20:00
78
Caora Dubh

That's interesting but not the full story. BTW, yes, no I haven't read Iraqi books; I cannot read Arabic. I have however spend a long time talking with Iraqis; even lived with some for a while.

The UN gave the food contract to a Turkish firm who screwed up the orders. ANY money that was there in the Food for oil program was put in Escrow accounts.

Sure, Saddam didn't starve but i've yet to see a 'leader' or royalty who did starve in such situations.

Every 6 months the UN voted on the sanctions. The 'uk' placed pretty much everything on the 'security hold' list, including syringes.

The issue isn't what the (previously installed and supported) Iraqi elites did, the issue is of the actual sanctions themselves. A barbaric act imposed upon a people with no chance of overthrowing the (western installed and supported) lunatic at the helm.

As for them supporting Satanism: Well, I read the bible as a kid and had the usual level of indoctrination on that subject but, if memory serves, Satan didn't run around doing awful things, that was the Abrahamic God. It was God that did the vengence stuff, no?

79

Finnking,

Lempäälä 02/02/2008 21:22:09
80
Caora Dubh

I agree. I am regularly attempting to show Lynne that how she sees others is a reflection of the attitudes she herself seems to hate.

We're all Jock Tampson's bairns, IMO
80

Sambo,

02/02/2008 21:26:56
#78
France was one of the countries that profited from the boycott it's no wonder they didn't support the invasion. Also (gorgeous) George Galloway wasn't as lillywhite as he made out.
81

,

02/02/2008 22:55:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
82

truthsleuth,

South of the Border 02/02/2008 23:42:39
Have you noticed how quiet the leaders of the Moslem faith are on this.
To use human beings of their own race and creed is typical of the fanatics.
To use less intelligent (presumably) human beings to carry out their despicable and cowardly acts is beneath contempt.
By their failure to decry these acts the Leaders of the Islamic faith should be committed to serve penance in a sty.
83

Dunnie,

Canada 03/02/2008 00:11:23

79 - Caora - pls enroll in an undergradute course in middle-eastern religions.

Your ignorance - or religious zeal - is breathtaking.

Just because you " have been told by Muslims" does not make it true.

I live in a fairly quiet middle-class neighbourhood, a member of which was financially supported by his family to train and fight in Afghanistan at the age of 16.

This after proclaiming to abide by all of our laws in order to become a citizen of Canada.

Wake up.
84

MichScot,

USA 03/02/2008 01:55:20
#19 And the killing stopped shortly afterward. Why don't you just kill the Christians off since you hate them so much and then you and the muslims can deal with each other without your scapegoats...or not. It's what you and they seem to want anyway, so gang up on them and see what happens next. You may regret the loss of Christians in the end.

Of course, this would be theocraicide or what ever the proper term is. But what's the diff with all the other massacres we have witnessed in this world?

Of course, I don't condone such a malicious act, but I do see it coming.
85

MichScot,

USA 03/02/2008 02:07:07
#26
They do indoctrinate four-year-olds, so I wouldn't be surprised about what comes next. I know many of them (most?) would not do such things-- at this point in time, at least-- but if it helps Islam, they have to tacitly approve, and to speak out against it is potentially deadly to them, both now and in the hereafter, according to their religion.

How sad that their god is so unrelenting and demands such horrible things! All these bombings do for me is to reinforce my appreciation for my God of love, Who also hates evil and injustice that man perpetrates against others. All evil comes from Satan, who makes us think it is from God.
86

MichScot,

USA 03/02/2008 02:44:09
#31

Agreed!

Israel IS indigenous to that area, no matter who decides to re-write history.

And Palestine was so-named by the Romans after 70 AD when they destroyed the Jewish Temple (which was where the Dome of the Rock is now, and ancient Islamic texts have stated that it was built there as a continuation of this temple of the People of the Book, among other reasons) in an attempt to wipe the memory of the Jews off the face of the earth, which is a feat that no one has yet accomplished, although many have attempted to do so.

And the Palestinians--Do you remember the most famous ancient one, Goliath of Gath? The one who was defeated by the shepherd boy, David, who had the use of his trusty slingshot? And since they remember the Crusades, perhaps this is also a shared reason for the violence?--are not the only ones in the Muslim world who have repeatedly and loudly reminded us that they intend to accomplish this goal.

You may not believe these myths--not you, #31--but the Muslims, Jews, and Christians DO share many of these stories and hold them to be true.

Most of the Islamic leaders intend genocide behind their words of taqiyyah, which are used when speaking of "peace" with the Israelis. Peace as in, "Convert,submit, or die!"

Now THAT GLOBAL CONQUEST is the ultimate in colonialism, and I find it hard to believe that we in the "civilized" West would leave the Israelis to their fate and blame it all on them for defending themselves, even though they are not perfect, either.
87

MichScot,

USA 03/02/2008 03:25:51
#33

That is right!

The peace verses are abrogated by the verses calling for war.

The Suyuti says," The order for Muslims to be patient and forgiving was issued when they were few and weak;but when they became strong, they were ordered to fight and the previous verses were abrogated." (Pt. 3, p.61)

Ibn 'Arabi said, "The verse of the 'sword' has abrogated 124 verses (p.69)

Those are the ones I have off the cuff. Most Muslims scholars agree with this.
88

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 03:28:59
MichScot..the only people hoping that the USA will abandon Israel are the apologists and condoners of the Palestinians and their rockets, here on these boards.
You and I know that will never happen. Now, if Hamas and Egypt work together in getting their supplies from Egypt, the Israelis do not have to feed, heat etc. people who are trying to kill them!!


89

MichScot,

USA 03/02/2008 03:29:33
334
The Holy Land, Spain, North Africa,Turkey,etc., also were Christian. Half the then Christian world was overrun by Islam.

If you look at the seven main centers of Christianity, I believe it was five of them that were overrun.
90

MichScot,

u 03/02/2008 03:59:18
#91

A blessing, I hope.

#80

And now the Muslims claim the Jews are using their babies for their matzo.


91

,

03/02/2008 05:36:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
92

Black & White Triumph,

Greenhill Road.......soon 03/02/2008 06:30:57
Islam is a club where once you join if you decide to leave you can be killed, you can be forced to join against your will and if you say you don't want to you can be killed
Peaceful religion my but, they use every way and every weapon to try to force their twisted belief on you nad if your resist or go your own way you can be killed.

This is a serious situation, appeasement does not work we should not let anymore muslims into our countries and help those muslim already here that it is in their best interests to go where they can celebrate their religion the way they want with other like minds.
93

57Nomad,

03/02/2008 07:19:57
#43 Laurette

L. said:

"Had we not invaded Iraq, based on false premises - would this have happened?"

You are most likely correct. Saddam would never be satisfied with a paltry 70 or 80 people. When he dropped poison gas on Halabjah he killed nearly every body in the city. If one of his generals had come back and told him he'd killed 70 or 80 people Saddam would have had him dipped in a barrel of acid or fed into a wood chipper.
94

Finnking,

Lempäälä 03/02/2008 07:25:12
Lunatic shoots up a shopping centre in the USA

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Five-dead--in-Chicago.3739222.jp

But we are not able to discuss it.
95

57Nomad,

california 03/02/2008 07:27:25
#82 fins

fins said:

"I agree. I am regularly attempting to show Lynne that how she sees others is a reflection of the attitudes she herself seems to hate.


Can the same be said of you?
96

57Nomad,

california 03/02/2008 07:41:20
#89 MitchScot

MitchScot said:

"Most of the Islamic leaders intend genocide behind their words of taqiyyah, which are used when speaking of "peace" with the Israelis. Peace as in, "Convert,submit, or die!"

You are correct. At one time the phrase "Islam means peace," was bandied around quite a bit. It doesn't. When the Muslim armies were on the march around the seventh and eighth centuries they would conquer town after town. They would round up the townspeople and then bring them up one by one, force them to their knees and place their head on a chopping block and give them this choice, convert or die. When the general would send his reports back, he would say about the people of the town, "they have submitted." I don't know the Arabic words for "they have submitted" but the anglicized version of it is "Islam."

97

57Nomad,

03/02/2008 08:05:52
#92 MS

You are correct. That's why no one should apologize for the Crusades. By the time of the Crusades the Muslims had crossed the Straight of Gibraltar and conquered Portugal and Spain, and had been there for three hundred years. It would be another five hundred years before they left.

They actually crossed the Pyrenees and invaded France. In 732 the Muslim armies met a Frankish stud by the name of Charles "the Hammer" Martel outside the city of Tours.

The Muslim general led a massive army intending to cross the Loire River and drive into the heart of Europe. Martel positioned his forces wisely decreasing the effectiveness of the massive Muslim infantry. During the days long battle the Franks captured and killed the Muslim general, Abd-er Rahman, who was also the governor of Spain. Upon hearing the news of Rahman's capture the Muslims departed and never came back.

It's a good idea to remember that the Muslims occupied Spain for 800 years. A sobering thought.
98

Hammer of the tims,

03/02/2008 09:56:55
#34 Chairman Gordon -"People seem to forget the Holy Land was Christian for centuries before being overrun by Islam."

You forget Britain and Europe was pagan before being overrun by christians.

99

Hammer of the tims,

03/02/2008 10:06:04
Lynne, bog off this forum ya spammer. To try and blame one side is disingenuous. Who was the first to use chemical weapons in Iraq? Winston Churchill.
Who developed and sold chemical weapons to Saddam to use on the Iranians? The Americans.
We in the west are not blameless in all of this.

Your and my country invaded Iraq in order to revalue the oil in dollars from Euro's. A million ordinary Iraqi's have died as a consequence.
Al Quaeda have taken advantage, like both governments were warned they would.

As long as you have your cheap 'gas' your laughing.
100

tommy,

belfast uk 03/02/2008 11:08:58
The above story just emphasises the difference between Western and islamic culture and proves that all cultures are not equal.




101

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 11:55:22
Hammer of the tims..I am not the spammer here. There are those here who have 2-4 or more identities. I have only had 1. Bog off yourself..You are just another identity of one of the above. Probably Roberta Burns he/she/it
102

Lee Morgan,

03/02/2008 12:03:06
MichScot, 57Nomad - Good posts.

Lynne – That idiot Censor wrote you tried five times to have one post deleted but until now, the said post is never deleted and still stays there as it is. So to conclude, Lynne, you’re correct, you have never at any time had any posts deleted so far.
103

,

03/02/2008 12:19:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
104

Audrey,

03/02/2008 13:57:21
Lynne

That it thing you are responding to is none other but Djookers itself, the troll who is trying to fool us by using a different identity each time. Nancy "Stretch" Pelosi is the first one to point it out.
105

,

03/02/2008 14:19:30
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
106

Audrey,

03/02/2008 14:36:38
Foolishman.com #108

You old rabid Trash, new day another new ID created! What are you hiding? Shame on you, stay out and don't bother with my post to Lynne. I didn't even address my post to you, so it's you who need to mind your own monkey business.

107

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 03/02/2008 15:59:07
remember - there is not one occurrence of a 'suicide' bomber in Iraq's history prior to the US invasion of March, 2003.

108

Dáithí,

San Jose 03/02/2008 16:49:58
#1 -

> "If true, horrific."

- Is it 'horrific' because of the casualties?

- Is it 'horrific' because of the use of mentally disabled people that don't know they are being used?

- Is it 'horrific' that now these lowlifes have run low on volunteers and have to use unknowing people?

- or is it 'horrific' because of the black-eye it has given to apologists propaganda machine?

> "Almost as horrific as the 500 000 children who were killed by the UN sanctions, imposed every 6 months in spite of the knowledge of the deaths."

But they were NOT a 'violation of international law'! Hasn't the objection to the war in Iraq been that it is an 'illegal' war? In fact, aren't these equally 'horrific' sanctions pretty much in accordance with international law?

Doesn't this make the whole 'international law' canard a joke and a mere propaganda ploy?

>"killed during the invasion aren't known but the overall death rate in the "mission Accomplished" "liberation" of around 100 000 is known."

Really? You claim 100,000, others claim 1,000,000. Isn't it true that these numbers are all specious? Don't some of these estimates also include the number killed during the 'legal under international law' sanctions?

> I know that US do not sent the mentally ill into war.

Apparently we can't say that about the people that are fighting against the US and UK, can we.
109

,

03/02/2008 17:45:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
110

,

03/02/2008 17:46:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
111

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 18:07:36
FH..
Audrey made very good points. Your last remark was said because she is right and you cannot debate them.
112

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 18:09:48
Dáithí,San Jose

Never said better.
113

,

04/02/2008 01:03:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
114

,

04/02/2008 01:26:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
115

Audrey,

New Zealand 04/02/2008 02:19:06
Foolishman.nuts #113

So there you expect me to believe you never call people names!!?? Your post #108 answered for it. It's you who started off first with name calling me moron. Shame on you, liar.
116

Cutty Sark.,

The polygraph room/The Kirkyard 04/02/2008 02:31:15
120 Audrey

It's Djookers AKA Mine's an 80 Bob

The troll hijacked my name in #117 & 119 and is probably him in #113 as well.
117

Cyril,

New Zealand 04/02/2008 03:51:28
We seem to have many armchair warriors who have never been to the Middle esat and have no first hand experience. Palestine was a great land under the British mandate except for the Jewish terrorists. Now I have three relations who are officers in the Australian Armed Forces in the Middle East and a grandson as an Australian Officer Cadet Although some of y closest relations are Americans I remember that the US Government backed Saddam Hussein in the Iraq-Iran War and the Taleban against the Russians. Now Bush is a great friend of Saudi Arabia a country where democracy and human rights do not exist but has plenty of oil.
118

Audrey,

New Zealand 04/02/2008 05:37:22
Cutty Sark. #121

Thanks for your information. This sickening Djookers is making an ass of itself here.
119

,

04/02/2008 11:10:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
120

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 21:57:34
121 Cutty Sark.,

You're barking up the wrong tree, it's not me, it's thatscottishwoman.

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 

Featured Advertising



Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.