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'We live in a culture where we fear our young people'



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Published Date: 22 January 2008
Minister calls for action as vandals run amok in cathedral and launch wrecking spree that destroys historic gravestones
IT IS a shocking image of inexplicable, wanton vandalism against a community landmark and a treasured piece of history, by children far too young to even watch a violent film.

Headstones lie toppled in the graveyard outside Brechin Cathedral, irre
versibly scarring a site that has honoured the lives of noblemen since the 17th century.

Four children, thought to be aged 11 to 13, burst into the cathedral while worshippers prayed on Saturday afternoon, stealing a protective glass cover from the communion table and using it to damage or destroy 11 separate headstones.

"The youths who came in took kneelers and threw them around," the Rev Scott Rennie, the minister at the cathedral, said.

"They also took a piece of glass which sits on top of the communion table. It was taken outside and it looks like it was used to chip inscriptions from headstones. It is just very sad."

The vandalism spree struck not only at the heart of one of Scotland's most treasured historic buildings, but also at the sensibilities of a society increasingly fearful of youth crime.

From grandmothers too afraid to go out of their front doors, to students refusing to walk home at night – anxiety about unruly youngsters seems to be growing by the day.

It may have reached a new height following the murder of Garry Newlove, a father of three from Warrington, who stood up to vandalism by children in his community, only to be "kicked like a football" and beaten to death by three drunk and out-of-control teenagers.

Even the Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith, has admitted she would never walk back to her London home at night.

But is youth crime in Scotland really getting worse?

The evidence is mixed, and, frankly, the data from police and other authorities, including the Scottish Government, is inconclusive, providing no definitive answers.

But there are enough pointers to support the burgeoning view that our youth is becoming more troublesome.

Vandalism among under-16s is getting worse, according to statistics from the Scottish Children's Reporter Administration (SCRA).

Over the past four years, there has been a big increase in referrals, mainly from police, to the SCRA for vandalism.

In 2003-4, there were 9,392 such referrals – by 2006-7, that figure had soared by 41 per cent to 13,212. There has been an even bigger percentage rise in fire-raising among the young – from 728 to 1,089.

Meanwhile, figures published yesterday reveal that, in the North-east last year, children as young as four were caught committing crimes that could result in jail sentences for adults.

A four-year-old was caught housebreaking, while a five-year-old was shoplifting and six-year-olds committed a breach of the peace.

Is this the tragic manifestation of a society that is falling apart? Despite the apparent trends, experts warn against jumping to conclusions.

The figures may have been skewed by changes in the way crime is recorded and a tendency in recent years for police to swamp the SCRA with blanket referrals, with the intention of being tough, and being seen to be tough, on the problem of youth crime.

The statistics themselves appear contradictory. The number of referrals on offence grounds overall fell last year – by about 5 per cent, to 36,148 – and has remained relatively steady in past years. Indeed, the confusion has led the SNP administration to abandon the last Scottish Executive's controversial – and politically damaging – "persistent young offender" target.

Dr Fergus McNeill, a senior lecturer at the Scottish Centre for Crime and Justice Research, rejects the claim youth crime has become worse in recent years. "I have audited youth offending for six or seven local authorities. I only found it had significantly increased in one of them," he said.

He also cited fresh research, published in a respected academic journal yesterday, which found youth crime today was no worse than it was in the 1970s, 1980s or 1990s.

But Mr McNeill warned that a "change in relationship between young people and adults" may be "storing up trouble for the future". While strongly rejecting the notion that young people should be feared and blamed for society's ills, he hinted at an issue that a growing number of people believe has brought Scotland to a tipping point of sorts.

They argue that the bonds between young people and adults have been damaged to the point whereby many children refuse to live harmoniously in communities across the country: communities that, many believe, are increasingly becoming blighted by a small, but significant, minority of out-of-control thugs.

It is a problem, they claim, that did not exist when they were young.

Stuart Archibald, who owns a kilt-hire shop in Brechin, witnessed Saturday's vandalism at first hand, having earlier confronted the youngsters as they "went on the rampage" in the town's streets.

The 49-year-old, who lives next to the cathedral, said the youngsters, who were no older than 13, ran amok through the town, knocking over wheelie bins, throwing sweets at passing cars and yelling abuse at frightened shopkeepers.

"It was just horrible – I couldn't believe what they were doing," he said.

Mr Archibald believes the frequency of such incidents makes it more vital than ever that responsible adults stand up to the culprits – despite the tragic murder of Mr Newlove, whose killers were jailed last week.

Margaret Smith, MSP, the justice spokeswoman for the Scottish Liberal Democrats, said a lack of solid parenting lay at the root of the problem.

In Brechin, however, people are asking themselves only one question: why?

As Mr Archibald put it: "The cathedral and grounds have survived invasion, reformation and modernisation. But it seems they are not able to survive today's children."

'Children need time being nurtured in healthy ways to live'Rev Scott Rennie

IT'S always dangerous to make generalisations from individual incidents, but in Brechin, as in towns the length and breadth of Scotland, youth crime and public disorder is an increasing worry.

When sacred spaces and places such as churches face vandalism, it is surely a sign that respect for things once deemed special has gone.

Trying to enter the mindset of those who mock those sitting in prayer, throw church furniture around like rubbish, and generally cause damage and distress is impossible.

None the less, I would like to ask them the question: "Why?"

It is a temptation, as one gets older, to idealise the past. There has always been youth crime and vandalism.

One casual read of Brechin Cathedral's Kirk Session minute books from the 17th century shows that clearly, even though the punishments were frighteningly draconian in those days.

Today the opposite is true. To what extent can it be said that restorative justice operates in our local communities?

Where are people made to face up to the reality of their misdemeanours and make some amends for them in the centre of the life of their community?

The majority of young folk in our small town, as in other towns like ours, are a credit to their community.

I know that from my extensive involvement with local schools and families.

I know lots of young people in their teens that are marvellous, but there is an increasingly significant minority who in some sense have lost their way. Again, the question is why?

There is no doubt in my mind that family and community breakdown lie at the root of the problem.

In comparison to other European countries, recent evidence shows our children spend too little time with their parents, being nurtured and shepherded in healthy ways to live.

Long hours at work can mean less time with our kids, and too many young people lead isolated lives from not only their parents, but their wider families, too.

It is the pattern of modern life – even in small country towns.

Youngsters as young as nine and ten wander the streets aimlessly in the late hours, sometimes finding drink, and sadly drugs, too, as a way to relieve their boredom.

Furthermore, as adults we live in a general culture where we fear our young people and fear making any kind of intervention in their lives, attitudes or behaviour, in case our actions will be misinterpreted.

In Brechin, there are marvellous people who give up their time to work with our young folk, but they are getting fewer in number.

Partly because of work commitments, partly because of a burgeoning regulatory framework that has people convinced if they work with youngsters, they put themselves in the way of risk.

It is an unsustainable situation, and a circle we have to square.

Children and young people in Scotland today need a stronger social support system in their families (whatever shape they happen to take) and their wider communities.

If we feel they are failing us, we might well ask: are we failing them?

• The Rev Scott Rennie is the minister of Brechin Cathedral.

How youth crime blights our lives
• An estimated 43 per cent of all crimes and offences in Scotland are attributable to young people under the age of 21.

• Some 13,212 youngsters were referred to the Children's Reporter for vandalism in 2006-7 – that is 41 per cent higher than the 2003-4 figure of 9,392.

• The jump in fireraising cases was even higher, from 728 to 1,089 – a 50 per cent increase.

• In 2006-7, some 36,148 referrals were made to the Children's Reporter about youth offending. This represents a fall of 5 per cent on the previous year's figure of 38,090 – but a 5 per cent rise on the 34,316 referrals in 2003-4.

• Just over three-quarters (74 per cent) of youth offenders are boys.

• The highest rate of young offenders can be found in Glasgow, where 5.9 per cent of the youth population were referred to the Children's Reporter on offence grounds. In Edinburgh, the figure is 2.2 per cent.

• The average number of 16-21- year-olds in prison at any one time was 796 in 2006-7, compared with 685 the previous year.



The full article contains 1724 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 January 2008 9:54 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Youth crime
 
1

Lastsocialist,

Paris, France 22/01/2008 00:18:22
Thank God I don't have to live in the UK any more. Does anybody in Scotland or England actually realise how desperate the situation is and will they even bother to do anything about it? Does anybody in the UK have any self-respect any more or are you all just going to let it slide into oblivion? Does any of you realise how much you have lost and how pathetic you are compared to previous generations? Get back to Biblical Christianity and restore order in your dying society.
2

John Blackley,

Florida 22/01/2008 00:22:41
Raising or keeping a child whose behaviour represents a danger to society - ten years, minimum.

Child or children in question to be placed in a facility, in care of the state, where he or she may be taught acceptable behaviour. Child or children to be kept in such facility until they reach the age of majority.
3

MGJ,

Edinburgh 22/01/2008 01:04:09
Why cannot the Scotsman get simple legal terms correct? There is no offence of vandalism in Scotland; it is malicious mischief, a far better term.
4

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 22/01/2008 01:07:58
The streets are filled with these sub-human spawn of degenarate parent(s) the next generation of those un-educated low life are aready more violent than the last lot.
5

Clan-destine,

kyoto Japan 22/01/2008 01:27:08
The media were reporting exactly the same stories in the 60's when I was growing up and branded as one of the so called 'worst generation of long haired louts' the country had ever seen! There were the same tired backward calls to bring back the birch, conscription, and hanging so it seems nothing much has changed despite all the politicians promises and righteous indignation of men of the cloth, outraged citizenry,old ladies and media hacks... who'll write anything for a story and wayward youth is always good for a story about how low the country has become...and yet we survive and some of the kids I knew and grue{correct spelling}up with, who were branded as the worst of the worst are now respectable businessmen, citizens and even millionaires!P.S. The times they are a changin'
6

Ross Fyffe,

Fife 22/01/2008 01:36:01
#5 no this is different these scum are vindictive, and ICE is coming in real fast ...............
7

Celtic Lion,

Roar 22/01/2008 01:54:13
A couple of things I've decided I'd be willing to risk jail for: ID cards and giving kids a good clipe when they need it (that's not a kicking, just enough to calm them down).

However, in some areas the problem really has got better. In Blairgowrie where I live (and I name the town because I think the recognition is deserved) it's gone from heading to Hellholeville twenty years ago and back to a pleasant wee town. And much as kids don't like to hear it, they're a good bunch round here and good luck to them. However they could do with forming an orderly line on their way to Tesco at lunchtime instead of the great masses they currently form! ;)
8

Encephalon,

22/01/2008 03:01:12
#1 I think only those far enough away can appreciate how bad it has become-our traditional Christian values have been dismissed as being uncool and our very status as a civilisation is under threat.

#5 I true grew up in the sixties -sorry- although it did have its problems the hippy era was a veritable golden age in comparison-people were generally optimistic and idealistic- -unlike the cynicism and egoism that pervades modern culture.

The country is largely in denial about its problems in particular truly shocking levels of drug abuse including alcohol levels that are the main cause of violent and anti-social crime and would not be tolerated anywhere else. Not to mention growing social inequality, a third rate education system that has produced a generation of NEETS and inept discredited politicians- a country swamped by illegal immigrants and other foreigners-who appear to be the only people who want to be there!

Back on leave at xmas and meeting up with some old friends a crowd of louts came into the pub swearing, knocking over glasses, threatening behaviour etc. Overheard their conversation-I was astonished to discover that they were all off-duty police-they say that the police force is reflective of any society but if those people were indicative of the standard of Central Scotland police-then God help us-the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
9

Fanling,

North of Guangdong, south of Mongolia 22/01/2008 03:55:32
#5. Clan-destine,kyoto Japan

You say "the media were reporting exactly the same stories in the 60's ..."

Hmm, yes, maybe something along the same lines, but not exactly the same levels of brutality. Gratuitous killing was still something of a severe shocker in the Scotland and England of the 60s. Not so now. It is commonplace, unless you hadn't noticed - but not in the Kyoto you inhabit, I warrant.

Your glorious tales of the miscreants who became "respectable businessmen" and "millionaires" are just so much twaddle. Respectable businessmen and millionaires are mere wallpapering and certainly don't always go hand in glove with legitimate reality.

The drugged and drunken juvenile filth that intimidate and terrify innocent and law-abiding people and their property in today's UK deserve worse than the hell they cause. Their scum-rotten parents deserve no less for their evident inability to control the vermin they spawn, but also the inability to address their own lack of communal responsibility. I am particularly concerned as the offence in the report above took place in what was my home-town.

You can go on about your perception (mostly hearsay) of societies like China until you are blue in the face, but I know from years of personal experience that I can walk down any street anywhere in any city in that land without fear of intimidation by feral youths. It just doesn't happen. And you know why? Fear of punishment. Not a cautionary slap on the wrist, not feeble limp-wristed community service, not a p!ss-poor out-in-a-few-months custodial sentence with all mod-cons, but severely painful punishment. It's called a deterrent and it mostly works. Cowardly thugs routinely dole out pain to the innocent but cry wolf when it's inflicted on them. Stuff EU Human Rights laws and get real.

Over to you, yellow-bellied Scots and English toadying politicians. Instead of sucking up to an Arabian cult whose worst vile bodies threaten all western society, concentrat
10

Fanling,

North of Guangdong, south of Mongolia 22/01/2008 04:07:13
Last para cut off by this unbelievably crap revised website (why has it been changed for the worse?)

anyway ...

Over to you, yellow-bellied Scots and English toadying politicians. Instead of sucking up to an Arabian cult whose worst vile bodies threaten all western society, concentrate on the indigenous filth that darkens the daily life of normal people. Punish them with severity.
11

Canny Fifer,

Los Angeles 22/01/2008 04:10:35
It's really no better in Los Angeles. The kids need nuclear families and to be brought up better to show respect for others and to observe the law. The media does not help...
12

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 22/01/2008 04:39:50
Hello All,

We can all, on both sides of the Pond, thank the Politically Correct Crowd for the state of things in our countries.

The PC'ers said that sp..anking children was 'child abuse', that having 'borders' for behaviour was being 'judgemental' and that punishment for unacceptable behaviour was both 'uncivilized' and 'abuse'.

What they've given us (through out idiot politicians, courts, and social support programs) is a deranged society in which victims of crimes are those held culpable, while the criminals are held innocent, changed into 'victims'.

Until we get rid of the liberal courts, which let criminals literally get away with murder, get rid of the liberal hand-wringing politicians, neither we, nor our families, nor our neighborhoods shall be safe.

Take the protection of your family into your own hands: the police shan't do it and the politicians have done their best to make people helpless in their own homes.

Great Britain needs to time warp back in time; were people being assaulted are in the right to defend themselves, where people in their homes can use any force they deem necessary to defend them and their families, and where police regularly stomp the daylights out of hoodlums, drunks, and druggers.

When we look at our societies had such defenses, there was a LOT less crime, and it was the criminals who were afraid, NOT innocent people in their homes and on the streets.

Cheers from the Rockies
13

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 22/01/2008 04:42:10
Hello All,

I knew things had gotten bad, I mean Big Brother "Pravda" Scotsman was completely into a Soviet Style of Censorship, but not allowing a person to use the world 'spa..nking' is absolutely ridiculous!

What the crap ever happened to freedom of speech?

Have you Scots even got a Pair anymore, or have you abrogated them to the idiots in the media and in Holyrood and Westminster?

Cheers from the Rockies
14

tomi,

22/01/2008 05:50:10
"We fear our young people"!? Hardly surprising because their elders give them no reason to respect them!

Young people nowadays are no worse than their predecesors: BUT they see their elders as gutless, weak, cowards who run arround like chickens with their heads cut off, only complaining about how bad the youth are but unwilling and unable to do anything about it.

Todays youth are more spyed on, and rectricted in their freedoms than ever before: BUT their elders merely stand back and wring their hands in horror, hogtied be their worship of Political Correctness"!!

Today's youth beg for a structured society! Not a "wishy-washy" nebulism!

In the 20th centuary, youngsters flocked to Stalin's communism, Hitler's Youth Movement, and the Cultural Revolution of Chairman Mao.

Now that can be seen in their attraction to Radical Islam.

OR!! It could be to drink, drugs, gangs, violence, suicide.

GIVE THE YOUNG PEOPLE HOPE!!

They actually do respect rules and dicipline if they are reasonable and fair.

It might actually mean that someone really cares for them!!!

15

Pilrig.,

Livingston 22/01/2008 06:12:07
1 - and go back to burning witches ?
On the matter of the damaged headstanes , bill the parents, hit 'em where it hurts.
16

Cappo Del Monte,

22/01/2008 06:34:31
A lot to be said for strict discipline, ie the belt and the birch, bring back the good old days, infact Saudi law as well for theft
17

Guga II,

Rockall 22/01/2008 07:49:12
The main problem regarding the four children mention in this story is that if any member of the public had grabbed them to hold them for the police, they would have been charged with assault. To make matters worse, the children, if caught, would have ended up in front of a Children's Panel and been given nothing worse than a slap on the wrist.

Unless that useless numpty, Kenny MacASkill, can address this problem, such behaviour by children will continue unabated.

The only way to actually address the problem is to bring back the birch for children under 16, and the cat o' nine tails for those 16 and over. In addition, they need to build and use some borstals. As for the parents of such scum, they should be forced to pay the full cost of any damage done by their children. If they are hit in the pocket, they might actually try and control their own misbegotten scum.
18

x-ile,

Auckland 22/01/2008 07:51:14
I'm so glad that I no longer have to live in the UK, lived in Edinburgh all my life but now got residency here and I tell you one thing I really do not miss is the amount of sub human scum that now prowls the streets of everywhere in the UK, you can barely walk alone at night without fear of something happening, goodbye UK and good riddance to an over populated, crime ridden and rip-off country, I feel sorry for you all having to live in the UK, it's only when you leave do you realise how bad it is.
19

eric,

Lothian 22/01/2008 07:55:07
Most young folk are alright ,And most of them are scared to go out as well ,And when our kids are scared to walk the streets theres something very wrong.
20

Steve Evans,

Malta 22/01/2008 07:59:11
Time to take the word Great off Britain and reintroduce National Service.
21

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 22/01/2008 08:15:34
I agree with both Ross Fyffe and Guga II that it seems, as reported, that there is an alarming increase in crime - VIOLENT crime and property crime - and the ages of the verminous perpetrators are getting younger and younger.

If many of them had proper parenting and did not have mothers and fathers who were serial adulterers drunk and stoned most of the time and on the dole for most of their lives then maybe they would have a fighting (in a GENTLE way) chance to make something of themselves and actually CONTRIBUTE to Scottish lawfulness and enjoy a life unsullied by rapes, murders, muggings, binge drinking, brawling, rampant vandalism, and general out of control mayhem.

Unfortunately, many countries in the world are afflicted by this anti-social and dangerous crime wave and unless something is done the fabric of civilisation and civilised behaviour will be rent.
22

Peekay,

22/01/2008 08:19:01
Don't know what the vicar was complaining about. The four kids probably doubled his congregation. The rest of you, catch a grip! There is more evil in Westminster than there is in these kids.
23

Douglas,

Bathgate 22/01/2008 08:36:02
"Despite the apparent trends, experts warn against jumping to conclusions".
And therein lies the answer.

24

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 22/01/2008 08:44:34
Socrates (300BCE) moaned at length about 'modern' youth.

However, the parents of those Brechin (Brechin!) kids MUST be hauled up before the bench to explain themselves. I guarantee every malicious offender there has a dysfunctional family background.

Social workers! Ugh!
25

james 1st,

hamilton 22/01/2008 09:00:29
why not catch them and put them on national television getting caned , other children seeing the spectacle would be far less likely to repeat the damage. oh sorry i forgot the pc brigade would object
the other solution do nothing and watch the problem get worse
whats been done for the l;ast decade certainly has not worked
26

james 1st,

hamilton 22/01/2008 09:04:53
parents cant do anything because the state has taken away all their power, children now rule, adults dont count, the government says so
how does a parent punish a child who would commit a crime like this, the whole problem has been created by a lack of parental control caused by state interference
27

Adaeze,

Edinburgh 22/01/2008 09:08:14
What nobody seems to realise is that no-one just wakes up one morning and decides to commit murder / rape / some other horrendous act. It starts a long, long time before - maybe with just a thought of "I really hate that person". Until you deal with the root, i.e. the heart / attitude, everything else is just a sticking plaster.
28

Iain's,

22/01/2008 09:19:30
The solution is simple. Make their parents pay for the damage.

Our New Labour, Christmas bonus obsessed police are not interested in justice only in conviction rates.

We must make the punishment fit the crime. There is no justice in jailing children but there is lots in making their parents pay.
The kids should be set to work cleaning the graveyard too.
If the parents can't pay or are unemployed, they can get to work repairing the damage themselves.


29

JayJay,

Right here 22/01/2008 09:20:16
What more is there to say? A Home Secretary openly admitting she would not walk the streets alone??? I don't hink I have ever heard such defeatism from a serving politician in my lifetime.
I really do not know who Government think they might offend if they announced a harsh crackdown on anti-social behaviour? An effette liberal elite? The EU? A few social workers? Who cares about that? The way I see it, the vast majority of the country has seen this sort of behaviour close at hand. People are sick of criminals of all hues being presented as victims...whilst any effort to "take the law into your own hands" is severely punished by courts. Good grief, we even have police chiefs telling people to stand up to the yobs - he clearly lives in a parallel universe.
So go on then Jackie. Impose curfews, force them to repay the damage, press gang them into hard labour on our roads, remove benefits for the workshy, give them a form of military service. And above all else, start promoting the benefits of the nuclear family. Encourage people to work, get married, care for their kids - however politically incorrect such language has become. You'd honestly think that you were some sort of weirdo these days for being married, holding down a job and teaching your kids respect. How we found ourselves actively encouraging single parent families through the benefit system remains a huge mystery.
So politicians, put the sad eyes back in the box, and do something. You can take it from me that 99% of the population will be over-joyed.
30

danielrober,

22/01/2008 09:21:57
Everyone know's the best way to deal with this problem is too treat this type of crime as a civil offense.

You broke it, you bought it.

Fines work.
31

Dave from Barra ©,

Western Isles 22/01/2008 09:26:30
Guga et al is righ. We have had our power taken from us. It's almost as though it's a deliberate government policy so they can step in and step up thier own powers by way of DNA tracing, ID cards, CCTV and so on and so forth.

They will introduce more laws and legislation which will, as usual, have the opposite effect, while in the mean time, the poor working sop gets the shoity end of the stick.

How about going back to Neighbourhood watches and parental vigilanty groups? Or are we all too interetsed in digital tv and crappy junk food i.e. hedonism (the first sign of a decaying society)? The liberal do-gooder are now prisoners in thier own homes. Stand up and take a bow.......
32

Boy Wonder,

22/01/2008 09:27:12
Bring back conscription ... but just for the chain-swinging, knife-carrying, drugged-up, drunken football-supporting louts, neds and chavs.

No need to spoil things for the well-behaved kiddies is there?
33

an interested party,

22/01/2008 09:32:23
no 1
if you dont stay here where pray tell do you get your information about the state of the country ?

from the hype driven sensationalist media perchance ?

it is oh so easy to condemn from afar, to snipe from the side lines (and this goes for the rest of you ex pats) concern yourself with your own affairs.

34

carrottop,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 09:33:32
We have got to the extent where my daughters primary school wont allow use of the carboard inside of toilet rolls in projects 'in case they are infected' so how do you expect these creeps who control our society to give the numpties brats a kick up the backside?
35

BK,

Cyberspace 22/01/2008 09:36:17
"
"The youths who came in took kneelers and threw them around," the Rev Scott Rennie, the minister at the cathedral, said."

What, kneelers in the Kirk? What next, incense?
36

Liz,

Edinburgh 22/01/2008 09:48:37
I think many of you are forgetting the "human rights" of the perpertrators of these alledged crimes.....

If these kids know nothing else, they know that there will be little if any consequence to their actions. The police are hamstrung and any members of the public confronting them will at best be done for assault.

37

Doreen,

The çyber Shebeen 22/01/2008 10:28:43
You can, if you wish, effect a citizens arrest...as long as you hand the offender over to the police immediately...of course you have to have sound basis for this arrest, based on lawful grounds..ie theft..assault...malicious mischief..but not a Breach of the Peace...a witness would be advised...but I would not hang about waiting for the cops to turn up....

It is hardly suprising...the increased drug abuse in our communities...its spawning generations of neglected children...seeing things that they should never see....what hope have they when they grow up?...I have seen toddlers playing amongst filth..needles..excrement....
38

JimC,

Kilmarnock 22/01/2008 10:29:30
There are two issues that make assumptions in this report, firstly they talk of reported crime figures, yet we know that much crime is never reported. As for youth crime being no different from the 60 70s what a load of bull, I was a teenager in the 70s and in no way did any of us behave in the way some of todays kids behave, drink and drugs were not an major issue in our communities, young 16 year old single tenants were unheard of, time to stop listening to the so called experts and listen to those who live in council estates and with the problems on a daily basis. Anyone read the “Firm Foundations – The Future of Housing in Scotland”. green paper, another case of assumption from the experts.
39

Galaman,

Galashiels 22/01/2008 10:45:45
It is all very well to blame the kids and their parents, but the liberal, do-gooder, PC lobby who have made it all but impossible to deter or punish them, must take their share of the blame also.
The reason for the growth in youth crime is simple- there are no deterrents any more.
40

an interested party,

22/01/2008 11:36:57
hmm IIRC we dont have the razor gangs of the 60's
41

Calum Crubag,

22/01/2008 13:00:04
Where does the blame lie? Parents firstly but are our politicians good role models? The churches and bible? Aye right!

As to Saudi Arabian justice - it's funny that those who say it's good don't live there. Would you trust our leaders with these powers? Are the Sauds good role models? No.

If we want 'free enterprise' media where shock value and sheer publicity-seeking hedonism rule coupled with a genreration of parents drugged up with various intoxicants (across the classes btw - look at the Royals and Blairs) then we have to be prepared to deal with the consequences. Coupled to a country that has lost it's culture then it's litle wonder some youth have no direction or sense of respect.
42

Jolly Jack Tar,

Edinburgh 22/01/2008 13:02:54
This is no worse than happens in Edinburghs cemetries sanctioned by the Council! Of course 'health and safety' is cited - but if they were properly maintained in the first place, it wouldn't be an issue.
43

Upandunder,

Still in Britain, sadly 22/01/2008 13:32:46
Armies of teenagers/young offenders up and down the UK get meaningless non-punishments like "community orders" for crimes ranging from theft, to vandalism to assault - and don't they know it.

Guardian-reading idiots who say tough sentences don't work are wrong. Get this: If a "community order" was all there was for not paying road tax, tv licences and council tax, not one demand would be paid in Britain!

The best punishment for neds is humiliation: Teenagers are obsessed with image and self-consciousness - so if a ned who hates goths is caught vandalising, he should be dressed as a goth or a woolly-sweatered geek and forced to walk his neighbourhood dressed like this for a few days. Believe me, this would work.

If my own teenage daughter (who hates neds) knew she'd be paraded in town wearing a baseball cap and Old Firm tracksuit she'd probably hang herself rather than smash a bus shelter and risk getting caught.
44

JayDeeTee,

22/01/2008 13:48:54
Politically correct brigade take note - you reap what you sow. That's why these islands are disappearing down the toilet pan and countries where youngsters have a little respect for their elders (which is most other countries, with the exception of the USA and......er....the UK)have a good future. In particular, look at the way youngsters in, say, India, China and Japan (and there are countless other countries)have the utmost respect for their elders. It makes being "British" an embarrassing admission but then, we have the loonies making the rules and these kids know their "rights". Laughable.
45

David Ban,

04620 Vera 22/01/2008 16:56:31
Society has got to get a grip with this underage monstrous behaviour . P.C is the Frankfurt School cultural Marxism originating in the 20th.century with the Italian Philosopher Antonio Gramsci with the aim of achieving a socialst state by subverting and infiltrating Western Civilisation's value and institutions.

These kids have to be disciplined and P.C.and their supporters eliminated.
46

Bob Fae Fife,

22/01/2008 17:10:41
Take the little B******s and knock the stuffing out them. There is no deterrent for badly behaved children in the UK anymore. I remember if I got the belt at the school my dad would give me one when i got home too. It did me no harm and made me think twice before doing anything wrong.
47

An Beal Bacht,

22/01/2008 19:39:08
Aye - we're a nation of narrow, Presbyterian, racists who are scared of children. That's because were a bunch of binge drinking, drug crazed ignoramuses, whose sexual health is catastrophic. Our countryside is contaminated and our cities are full of paedophiles. Our politicians are crooks, our doctors are terrorists, and we've got life expectancies bellow folks in war torn Baghdad. We're going to end up homeless due to the collapse of the economy, left sitting in the dark because our government refuses to build new nuclear power stations, and then we'll all drown because of floods caused by climate change.

Grand!
48

T M,

LA, USA 22/01/2008 19:40:07
#11
Really??? What part of Los Angeles are you refering to?
I certainly don't see any Alcohol fueled randon violence or property crimes in any middle class neighborhoods here....
49

alsirat,

Edinburgh 23/01/2008 07:55:00
Bringing up kids correctly is not as simple as it seems. I am a "schemie" from a West Yokshire pit village, but, wanting another life, became qualified and live in a comfortable suburb of Edinburgh. I read to my kids, got them involved with Church, took them camping, to Shakespear, rock concerts, Guides, talked to them, listened to them, and made sure they were loved individuals. They were happy and delightful girls, who became sullen and agressive adolescents. As young women they left home to seek a life of petty crime, drugs, squalour and abusive, drunken men. If the proof of the pudding is in the eating, then I have git it badly wrong, but I dont know how.

 

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Today's Vote

Do you think teenage tearaways should be sent off on adventure courses?
Yes, if it gives them the chance to rehabilitate.
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