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Brown brands Mugabe thief and says world must act over 'stolen' poll



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Published Date: 17 April 2008
ROBERT Mugabe, the Zimbabwe dictator, must not be allowed to steal his country's presidential election and hang on to power illegally, Gordon Brown warned the world last night.

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The Prime Minister, in his most outspoken comments on the chaos enveloping the African country, in effect accused Mr Mugabe of being prepared to break the law to stay in office.

The warning came as police and militants loyal to Mr Mugabe cracked down on opponents yesterday , with police arresting 36 people and doctors reporting scores of cases of presumed assault and torture.

Addressing the United Nations security council in New York, Mr Brown said no-one believed Mr Mugabe had triumphed in the election, which remains undeclared after almost three weeks.

He said: "No-one thinks, having seen the result at the polling stations, that President Mugabe has won this election. A stolen election would not be an election at all. The credibility of the democratic process depends on there being a legitimate government."

Mr Brown made the plight of Zimbabwe the key part of a short address to a security council debate on the African Union.

Earlier this week, Mr Mugabe, who has held power since 1980, dismissed Mr Brown as a "tiny dot in this world".

Police last night accused those arrested yesterday of trying to enforce violently a nationwide strike called by Zimbabwe's opposition to demand the results of presidential elections that Mr Mugabe is widely believed to have lost.

But Zimbabwe Doctors for Human Rights said it treated 174 cases of injuries consistent with assault and torture since the vote, including 17 yesterday. Most victims this week suffered multiple fractures.

Zimbabwe's opposition Movement for Democratic Change believes its leader, Morgan Tsvangirai, won the 29 March election. This is disputed by Mr Mugabe's Zanu-PF party.

In his speech, Mr Brown urged the international community to send a "single, clear message" that it wanted democracy in the southern African nation and was ready to help its people to build a better future.

He talked of the international community's "shame" for failing to intervene to halt the bloodshed in Rwanda in the early 1990s and said there was still a "gaping hole" in its ability to address illegal uprisings in Africa.

Britain is to train 12,000 African peacekeepers to boost the 28,000 troops available now.

Earlier, at the start of his three-day visit to the US, Mr Brown had upgraded the "special relationship" between Britain and America to a "very special relationship" and predicted it would get stronger whoever succeeded George Bush.

Mr Brown will today meet Republican presidential nominee John McCain, and Democratic rivals Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

He told Good Morning America: "The relationship between Britain and America is strong but it will be stronger. It is a very special relationship."

Chancellor admits Labour must find way to sharpen up its act

ALISTAIR Darling has admitted that the government needs to "sharpen up" its act if it is to regain its popularity.

The Chancellor has become the most senior minister so far to admit that a change in tactics is needed to counter backbench unrest and a Conservative revival in the polls.

His remarks were seized upon by the Tories as an "unprecedented attack on the Prime Minister" – though Mr Darling made no mention of Gordon Brown in the interview, which he gave yesterday at the end of a three-day trip to China.

Mr Darling said the government would survive the current period of unpopularity "because the economy is fundamentally strong".

He added: "But we have also got to make sure that in other areas we sharpen ourselves up, that we have a clear message of what we are about."

Speaking to the financial news agency Bloomberg in Chongqing, Mr Darling implied that Labour had to return to its roots and remember why it had fought for power in the first place.

He said: "This is a time where we should remember why we stand for government, the purpose of being in government, to build a fairer society and to create opportunity for people. We should never forget that.

"We have an awful lot more to do, and we will get through this patch."

Earlier this week Hazel Blears, the communities secretary, conceded that the government faced "difficult times".

Rhodri Morgan, the First Minister of Wales, and the former home secretary David Blunkett joined the chorus of disapproval over the removal of the 10p income tax band and concern mounted at proposals to extend the amount of time terror suspects can be held without charge from 28 to 42 days.

George Osborne, the Tory shadow chancellor, said: "What started as anonymous briefings from backbenchers has now burst into the open with a public attack on Gordon Brown from the second most important person in the government. If the government is fighting itself, how can it fight for Britain?"

Vince Cable, the Liberal Democrat treasury spokesman, said: "Many people will be staggered to hear that only now, six months into a financial crisis, the Chancellor is starting to admit there is a problem."

The full article contains 862 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 17 April 2008 10:58 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Labour Party , Zimbabwe
 
1

karinxxx,

17/04/2008 00:01:55
what mugabe stole the scotsman poll that was supposed to be published on 13th april.

the dirty dastard.
2

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 17/04/2008 00:29:00
Brown brands Mugabe thief and says world must act over 'stolen' poll


POT KETTLE BLACK
3

Mashimaro,

China 17/04/2008 00:33:42
"Stop!" sez Brown, "Or I'll say STOP again!"

Hmm the UK and US are now "very special friends"... are they very best best best friends? Do they share their Barbie clothes? HOw much more special can they get? Already America can pick up any British subject in Britain and take them back to America to be tried.
4

The Spook in Leith,

Leith 17/04/2008 00:36:19
Well okay Broon but what about our stolen election that you were going to hold ? Also you are a minority goverment and not reflective of how the UK voted.

Labour received 35.3% of the popular vote, equating to approximately 22% of the electorate on a 61.3% turnout, up from 59.4% turnout in 2001. Increased turnout was mostly attributed to the extension and promotion of the postal voting system, which has however been criticised by many as being too insecure increasing the risk of Electoral fraud

Nevertheless, Labour's vote declined to 35.3%, the lowest share of the popular vote to form a government with a majority in the UK House of Commons in history.

The election was followed by further criticism of the UK electoral system. Calls for reform came particularly from Lib Dem supporters, citing that they received only just over 10% of the overall seats with 22.3% of the popular vote

I would like the United Nations to look into our unfair elections along with Zimbabwe's
5

,

17/04/2008 00:55:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

,

17/04/2008 01:24:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

Colin R,

17/04/2008 01:36:55
funny Brown didn't speak up when white farmers who fed the nation and exported surpluses were being murdered and thrown off their land from 15 years- he's paralysed by political correctness and a lack of decency- a true JOhnny come lately

He say's he will do everything-where's the task force, where's the UN resolutions, the peacekeepers, the offers of exile?

The fact is , like Jamaica, Zimbabwe was better off under imperial rule
8

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 17/04/2008 01:49:55
Brown brands Mugabe thief and says world must act over 'stolen' poll
--------------------------------------

On the world's political and military leaders stage .

Gordon Brown
is a key player and so are the following

Putin . Bush .Sarkozy .Merkel . Fukuda

Now what about this dude Salmond !!!
what does he do..
He is leader of the SNP squawk party .

The next great threat to the majority of Scots!!!.
Me thinks not dudes.

Happy Dreamers day

GC
9

james hunter,

metford nsw australia 17/04/2008 02:28:49
Good on Mr Brown. Better would be British troups removing the dog whoopsie from the carpet of the world.
Mbeki should be doing it but wont the un should but there wont be any zimbabwens left bu the time they get to it. the us are over strected. china wants the fruits of the world but wont tend the garden. aust canada new zealand are streched in other areas, who else has the will and the means? the japenesa the germans or the french, cant see it.
as one of scots decent i hate to say it but maybe the poms are good for it?? i realy hope so. every tyrant unchecked helps bread two new ones.
10

Phil C,

17/04/2008 02:31:30
#8 Galactic Lunatic

I for one would like to hear what Salmond has to say on this. I don't give a diddly squat for what 'Wee Dot' Brown might think. He is, after all, a thief and poll stealer par excellence!
11

henrymanchester,

UK 17/04/2008 03:42:04
I am not standing up for Mugabe but come on.

Gordon Brown is unelected as prime minister.

Maybe the guy should shut up.
12

Law abiding ,

Right here 17/04/2008 04:08:06
We need to speak out against the Mugabes of the world whether our own house is in order or not. If we wait until we ourselves are perfect, we are simply appeasing these guys. Right? Has that worked well in the past? Is anyone suggesting that we act as if nothing matters to or affects us just because it happens miles away?
13

Paul in Oz,

Helensburgh 17/04/2008 04:31:53
what really makes it pretty funny is that fact that people are bleeting on about gordon brown being unelected, I have two words for you:

JOHN MAJOR!

14

Jock Scot,

East Lothian 17/04/2008 04:32:33
What ever happened to African nationalist slogan of
“One Man, One Vote” should be changed to

“One Man, One Vote, Once.”

15

Mashimaro,

17/04/2008 04:38:46
#7 Funny how no one speaks up for the white farmers who are being murderd in South Africa. Funny that.
16

Mashimaro,

China 17/04/2008 04:43:57
#12 Nothing you've done has worked out "well" in the past, so best just leave be and let it sort itself out naturally. Very often you don't understand or have not been made aware of the consequences of your call to "do something". And those consequences can be a lot worse than "speaking out".
Tibet is a prime example.
17

TommyKaye,

UK 17/04/2008 05:09:46
IN THE LAND OF THE BLIND THE ONE EYED MAN IS KING


Gordon Brown Rules the UK because the people are basically stupid. We always accept everything that the is laid on us we moan but ae never active.

We have the government WE deserve.
18

Ubi,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 06:34:40
Labour's own tacky attempts to sway the local elections are fine and noble though.
19

Bob Christie,

17/04/2008 07:04:08
A bit rich from Brown. The Electoral Commission here is obviously being trained by the Zimbabwean Electoral Commission (qv Harriet Harridan story, and stories of Wendy passim).
20

El Sabio,

Sibbertoft 17/04/2008 07:17:40
This is what a friend in South Africa wrote to me yesterday. I do hope that it is not remved by the moderator. Her partner said...


Rob tells me that this afternoon he heard on Classic FM news that a boat full of arms and ammunition from China has been impounded in Durban harbour. Apparently the
cargo was en route to Zimbabwe. No prizes for guessing why Herr Mugabe's been delaying the election results. Here we go with another Ari Ben-Menashe-style set up.
21

El Sabio,

Sibbertoft 17/04/2008 07:19:26
The sad saga continues. Lives are threatened.

What I would like to know is who is bank rolling Mugabe.

Surely he must be receiving money from somewhere to pay off his acolytes, sycophants and toadies?
22

Agent 99,

17/04/2008 07:20:06
Ah yes, Brown. Didn't he declare not many hours ago that his entire waking focus was on the UK's economic situation?

Didn't take long to get sidetracked. Yet another example of a politician promptoted way beyond his level of competence.

Today's Herald also has an article of how the odious little quisling pledges to promote the "very special relationship" between the UK and the US. What is it with British politicians that as soon as they set foot on US soil they become crawling sycophants about all things american. If it's so good, broon, perhaps you can just stay there; you will not be missed.
23

El Sabio,

Sibbertoft 17/04/2008 07:21:08
#17

The UK would appear to be a land of mainly politically correct sheep.

24

malkster,

Scotland 17/04/2008 07:53:33
#4

So is your solution compulsory voting or simply not having a government? Talk about a stupid post.
25

Louis Catorze,

17/04/2008 07:59:56
As a member of the international community, I couldn't give a t0ss what happens to Africa.
26

paulr,

edinburgh 17/04/2008 08:12:15
Mr Brown had upgraded the "special relationship" between Britain and America to a "very special relationship"
TRANSLATION -- The whitehouse has changed the strings attached to Puppet Brown from lightweight nylon to heavyweight nylon.
27

eric,

17/04/2008 08:19:17
Anyone who says on Tv they Love American Tv is la liar!
28

danielrober,

17/04/2008 08:20:58
I admire Brown and at least he is talking about this problem when other EU leaders have put their heads in the sand. But be careful sir.

This situation reminds me of a pub fight. - You say stop the fight they don't, you shout stop the fight they don't and then you go to stop the fight. The fights over and you all have a drink. - Then next week these two pals say 'hey that's the guy that attacked us' and you get beaten into a pulp.

This democracy struggle is real, but there's a heck of a lot of people just having a kick for the sake of it. Their kicking for the money sir. Maybe our involvement is keeping this guy in power. Maybe this is our Cuba.
29

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 08:45:38
Mugabe should have brought in wee Dougie Alexander to help with the organisation of his election....
30

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 17/04/2008 08:50:32
Britain pays Mugabe millions each year, still. He also sells valuable minerals to China. The diplomatic bags channel these millions from Zim to Switzerland.

So there are three areas in which Brown could take action.

If Mugabe had won that election he would have claimed it long ago. The delay is proof he didn't.
31

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 17/04/2008 09:04:31
Breathtaking arrogance from someone who was a shoo-in to his present position as PM! Didn't even pretend to hold an election! Wouldn't give us the opportunity either, to make a UK decision and an EU decision. All blather froth and spin as usual. His appearance on American TV was a total embarrassment too. Time for the heave-ho.

Also seems incongruous that we continue to pour millions into failed African states when we know that the money just veers off into presidential coffers largely.
32

oder,

scotland 17/04/2008 09:27:01
Mugabe`s a thief? congratulations Mr Broon! only 30 years to late! pity Britain did not listen to the truth all those years ago! as is the case with the British these days "to little to late"
33

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 09:38:12
Shouldn't Brown be putting his affairs in order before criticising other countries?
34

Strict Ivan Jellicoe,

Renfrew 17/04/2008 09:47:05
It might save a lot of time, energy and grief all round if all future elections in Zimbabwe were suspended and all other African leaders got together to choose who should lead the country. After all, its them – and who receive massive aid from us - who have always propped up Mugabe
35

interstellarmince,

outer-space 17/04/2008 10:05:27
This is rich coming from vote-rigger extrodinaire...
36

Steve Evans,

Malta 17/04/2008 10:18:05
Does Gordon Brown realise that he should go as well!!
37

Guga II,

Rockall 17/04/2008 10:57:44
#3 Mushy Marrow (The Rabid Rabbit).

Believe it or not Mushy, but I actually agree with your comments in your post at #3.

However, you forget to mention that Mugabe is very friendly with your gangster government, and that same gangster government has not tried to make Mugabe behave like a decent human being; not that that surprises me, given that your gangster government wouldn't know what a decent human being was.

Mugabe is a thug and a murderer, but the Chinese gangster government are thugs, torturers and mass murderers. Your gangster government murders and tortures its own people for even criticising them, and for having different beliefs (e.g. the Falun Gong). They also pursue a policy of genocide against the nation of Tibet..

They would never tell Mugabe to STOP, as he is a mere amateur in comparison with your lot of thugs and murderers. Of course, they have not attempted to make the thugs and murderers in Burma or the Sudan behave themselves either, or told them to STOP.

I hope you noticed that the Australian are not going to have a bar of the PLA thugs when the torch of shame is taken through Canberra.

Have a nice mass execution day (though that is every day in China).
38

Flower of Scotland,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 11:23:07
Brown! Give back the six north eastern counties of Ireland,which your gang stole in 1921.
39

,

17/04/2008 11:32:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
40

pressure,

scotland 17/04/2008 11:33:23
To be fair... imagine being forced to live in a country run by a mad, populist, nationalist hatchet man with a obsessive grievance against an imperial power.
41

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

17/04/2008 11:48:52
Brown has had to tread rather carefully regards the whole Zimbabwe issue. By choosing to attack Mugabe at the UN he is trying to prevent Mugabe playing the white colonial oppressor card. It's not Britain vs Zimbabwe as Mugabe would like but the World vs Mugabe.

Moreover, he has forced that weasel Mbeki to back off from his so-called mediation - little more than attempt to prop up Mugabe.
42

yockel,

17/04/2008 12:16:40
Great come back Broon. Any thoughts on the economy or your chances of survival till the next general election?
43

Proximaking,

Dundee 17/04/2008 12:33:23
I can't see the difference between a failed state in Africa or a failed state nestling on the Thames. Both attract vast sums of British taxpayers money by fair and foul means and people are murdered in droves while the rich elite get richer. Can someone please tell me the difference between a Rhodesia run by a black monkey and London run by a white monkey for the last God knows how many years? ALL of these problems are caused by hidden and not so hidden subsidies and both Africa and London and hundreds of other wasteful councils, banks, quangos etc will only be sorted once every single subsidy is stopped. Let's face facts Brown has nationalised bankers losses with yesterday's announcement, he knows capitalism is dead in the water as does Bush, the Russians know communism is dead, all we have to do is convince the pure thug regimes around the world, China, Saudi Arabia, Israel, India, Indonesia, Burma, Ceylon, South Africa, Ecuador etc that their way is also over and that will be that. And the simple way to do that is to starve these regimes out, ...... and that plan it seems is well under way. As the grand national horse had it "Comply or Die" and Africa, China, India and all the other thugs are well on their way to dying rather than complying with the new world realities. llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
44

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

17/04/2008 12:41:33
#43 Those equating this country with Zimbabwe really take the Huntly & Palmers.

As far as I am aware Gordon Brown does not send out thugs to physically attack his polictial opponents.
45

Queen D,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 12:43:35
Still demanding the poll result or the proof in that e-mail.
46

Saoghal Beag,

17/04/2008 12:54:37
if only there was oil there, broon would have found WMD aimed at the uk and ready to be fired at a week's notice.

44 but he continues to fund an illegal war. Like the folk in Zimbabwe we are just waiting for the next electionwhen we will, however reluctantly he goes, see the back of him, unless wee dougie eck makes a better job at mucking up that election?
47

Steve McGregor,

Dundee 17/04/2008 13:02:37
Whatever Mugabe is today, we, the british made him so. The tiny evidence is, Didn't the "little tiny dot" stole election from Tony Blair? When Tony Blair campaigned, The tabloid wrote, "Vote Blair get Broon". As a result, Blair was asked by the voters to ensure whether he would serve full term if elected, and so he promised. The "little tiny dot" knew that he didn't stand a chance to be elected, so he waited for Tony to win it for him.
Little tiny brown dot, you are not the right person to condemn Mugabe about stealing elections.
48

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

17/04/2008 13:04:31
What illegal war would that be?

Unjust - maybe?

Unsound - yes I go along with that . . but illegal - no.
49

kimba,

17/04/2008 13:05:37
You all have the screaming hab-dabs over Gordon Brown,and as scottish independence is coming some time never,the alternative is David{cycle the wrong way down a one way street}cameron,oh wow,a great improvement. NOT.
50

kimba,

17/04/2008 13:07:49
..... as for mugabe, what goes around comes around,he'll get his big time.
51

John PM,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 13:10:12
I am still suspicious of the Great OZ (Broon). I would much prefer it if Scotland represented itself on the world stage. There is always a tinge of imperialism which attaches to everything BritGov says because of its past.

Britain and the US have a long history of propping up tyrants so whenever Britain or the US moans about human rights the world just thinks they are being hypocrites.
52

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit, Scotland 17/04/2008 13:13:24
If there is one person in the world who cannot lecture others about "stolen elections" it is our UNELECTED prime minister, Gordon Brown. For good measure he has also stolen the referendum on the EU that was explicitly promised in Labour's manifesto.
53

John PM,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 13:13:58
Re: Independence. Might be sooner than you think Kimba, when the Labour party gets humped in the English local elections maybe you will wake up.

Also, Iraq was illegal since it wasn't properly sanctioned by the Security council.

Is Cameron better than Brown, who knows or cares? But England might as well vote for the real Tories rather than the fake ones. The Tories are dead in Scotland and the important fight will be between the SNP and Labour at the next election.
54

kimba,

17/04/2008 13:18:40
51. Are you serious? The "Britgov" as you call it, is run more often than not by scots,any complains you may have should be addressed to your fellow countrymen.
55

kimba,

17/04/2008 13:25:22
53. You really aren't getting this are you, no matter if it's Brown or Cameron scottish independence is a non starter. England will vote on how it feels at the time,but as scotland is so anti tory only you will suffer if the tories {or should I say when the tories} win.
56

Steve McGregor,

Dundee 17/04/2008 13:43:38
Isn't David Cameron a scot I know!!!?
57

kimba,

17/04/2008 13:52:26
This is what Brown does for his homeland-SCOTS £57 BILLION GIFT

FROM BROWN !






Scotland's windfall
By Julia Hartley-Brewer

GORDON Brown has handed Scotland almost £60billion more public money than England over the past 10 years.

Every year since 1997, Scotland has received an extra £5.7billion to share among a population a tenth the size of England’s, research has revealed.

Last year public spending per head in Scotland was £8,623 per head, while England received just £7,121.

It amounts to £57billion more than Scotland would have received if it had been given the same funding per head as England – equivalent to an extra 18p on the basic rate of income tax for one year.

If the money was spent on England, it could pay for:

The entire annual budget for English schools and universities

Another 238 hospitals

An extra 1.5 million police officers

Two million extra prison places

Holding the Olympic Games six times over.

Instead, the money has subsidised benefits that are only available north of the border.

They include free education for Scottish students at Scottish universities, while English students attending the same universities pay up to £3,000 a year.

Older people receive free long-term care north of the border, while those in England are forced to sell their homes to pay for it.






And while prescription charges are being scrapped in Scotland, they will remain in England. Drugs for Alzheimer’s disease and blindness are judged too expensive in England but are available free in Scotland.

But while the Scots enjoy all these benefits, English taxpayers are losing out on billions of extra funding for the services they use.

Scots-born Mr Brown has been repeatedly accused of giving his home country preferential treatment over England.
As Chancellor, he admitted that Government spending plans meant expenditure per head in Scotland was higher than in the rest of the country.

The Barnett Form
58

kimba,

17/04/2008 13:54:55
56. His grandfather I believe,as for the leader of the opposition he was made in England.
59

Silence of the Yams,

17/04/2008 13:55:21
Trouble is if you send in troops you're just going to create a ZANU-PF insurgency, and give Mugabe credance amongst dumb African's like Thabo Mbeki.
60

Memyself&I,

17/04/2008 13:57:42
Mission accomplished by Broon.
Sth Africa have now called on Zim to publish the results of the poll.

Well done Mr Brown, you forced their hand.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7352404.stm


I'm pretty sure when Blair was voted back in that the voters knew he would not serve the whole term. Therefore, Brown was voted in.

Mashimaro,China, you can spout your propeganda as much as you like, but 99% of people on here know that you and your "government", sorry, leaders are indeed the gangsters Guga speaks of. A truely disgraceful nation.
61

Steve McGregor,

Dundee 17/04/2008 14:15:37
The only right thing about Robert Mugabe is putting Gordon Brown at his place. Little tiny dot? ye cani get bett'a explanations than that of the man.

About Zimbabwe, I sometimes smell fish on us sticking our nose too close to Zimbabwe.
About inflation in Zimbabwe, for those of us who have gone to Turkey (for holidays, or whatever) in the past couple of years, are used to spend millions. I have once paid 21million turkish lilla in a Taxi from Istanbul Ataturk Airport to my hotel in Kadikoy. (About 9 miles apart). Why weren't us bothered by inflation in Tuekry?

About starvation and HIV Aids, in Zimbabwe, that also happens in Mozambique, Tanzania, Malawi, Angola and Numerous sub saharan Afican countries. The only difference between Zimbabwe and those countries I've mentioned above is, The later do not have white farmers. Lets face it, our Zimbabwean white farmers are the main reason of our spacial interest in Zimbabwe affairs. Africans know this. Thats why, even people like Thabo Mbeki who privately criticise Mugabe, they publicly support him. There is a lesson to be learnt here.
62

Flower of Scotland,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 14:18:01
#Blub...... You are an ar*ehole and an English lick.Get up off your knees you defeated peasant.
63

Flower of Scotland,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 14:20:51
#62 That post was directed at #39, the blub who obviously agrees with stealing a part of another country. PUT IT BACK THIEF!
64

kimba,

17/04/2008 14:22:51
62. You always know when you are on a winner,stupid scots like you start the insults.
65

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit, Scotland 17/04/2008 14:22:57
#57 kimba:

Gordon Brown well should give Scotland billions of extra cash than England gets. England has taken all the Scottish oil for decades. If Scotland had been allowed to keep its natural assets for itself, it would be as rich as Norway and England would be a festering poor sweat shop of a country.
66

Steve McGregor,

Dundee 17/04/2008 14:33:40
Fellas,mind your language. Too much of a verbal pollution in here. Its ma dayoff, please let me not run away
67

Geoff,

sa 17/04/2008 14:34:14
Kimba -I think wee David Camerons Pa was born in Scotland. Also in general chaps, Gordon Browns sins-real and imagined pale in comparison with the evil wrought by Mugabe.
68

Flower of Scotland,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 14:41:09
#64 Kimba. If you had taken the time to read post#39 then you would have been able to see where the insults started. However I take it from your post that you are English, and this would indeed explain your arrogance. Pity the ignorant!
69

kimba,

17/04/2008 14:41:31
65. But instead our sick die,our elderly have to sell their homes so they can afford care,our student are saddled with debt,the tide is turning and your oil is running out SNEER ALL YOU LIKE,BUT ENGLANDS 50 MILLION HAS HAD ENOUGH, the worm is about to turn,and god help the scottish raj when we do.
70

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit, Scotland 17/04/2008 14:52:14
Kimba says "[the English] worm is about to turn,and god help the scottish raj when we do.

Well, it's extremely unlikely and I'm not worried about 50 million obese English couch potatoes picking a fight with Scotland but if they do they would just as well remember where all the nuclear submarines and missiles have been based: yup, Scotland. That might have been another dumb English move as we have all the bombs!
71

kimba,

17/04/2008 15:09:07
68.What insults! In case you didn't know, your post at 38 was the stupidest post ever,the people of Northern Ireland want to stay in the UK.
72

The Spook in Leith,

Leith 17/04/2008 15:09:57
malkster,Scotland 17/04/2008 07:53:33
#4

So is your solution compulsory voting or simply not having a government? Talk about a stupid post.

Talking of of the word stupid!!Did i mention compulsory voting? NO I DID NOT!!!

Did i mention not having a government ? NO I DID NOT!!!

My point is we need a far fairer system for voting MP,s to Westminster, now what a stupid person you are..Numpty
73

kimba,

17/04/2008 15:14:50
70.Lol, you arrogant nitwit,ENGLAND HAS PLENTY OF NUKES,without the ones in scotland,as for the "obese" slur, wasnae scotland voted one of the most obese countries in europe!
74

Mike555,

17/04/2008 15:14:55
Can't stand Mugabe but then I can't stand a thieving, lying to$$er like anti socialist Brown either.

Both don't live in the same world as the rest of us and if either had to work for a living would be sacked within the week.

If only I had a gold plated pension like Brown has since he never ever had to pay into his while at the same time, he gets way with robbing the private pension pots of millions of decent people.

Will rejoice when both are toppled.

75

Queen D,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 15:26:05
Why do you feed the imbecilic elephant?
76

Law abiding ,

Enjoying the good life 17/04/2008 15:26:36
16 Mashimaro,China : First: No need to attack me personally, you have no idea what I have done about anything. Second: Denial of world events does not make them go away. Third:Is a resident of China really that objective about any news of the world, when even the internet is censored, let alone public discussion.
Finally: you mention Tibet? What example are you drawing from that place? That leaders should speak up and make this a world issue, or that everyone should shut-up and the the Chineese Military quietly solve the protest?
I suggest you think before you post, and do not tell me, or anyone, what they have or have not done when you know nothing about a person.
77

Flower of Scotland,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 15:36:17
# 71 It is obvious that you are competely thick. 87% of the people on the island of Ireland want an end to British interference in their country's affairs. In democratic terms ,what does 87% of a population mean to you? The name "northern ireland" was the name given the stolen part of Ireland by the the thieves who stole it in 1921. Ireland is one nation,consisting of 32 counties and 4 provinces and no ammount of English trickery will ever change that. Britain never had any right to be in Ireland and never will have any right to be in Ireland. If you do not believe my story why dont you consult the general election results for Ireland in 1918. There you will see a clear mandate from the Irish people for the setting up of a independent Irish Republic.However the British government of the day chose to ignore the wishes of the vast majority of the Irish people and went ahead with partition of the country.The sectarian orange statelet set up by them was a complete failure and the rest is history. On the subject of Irish politics and history I would class you as A DUNCE. So! please dont make a fool of yourself by any more ignorant contributions in relation to Irish affairs. Well I'm off to get the cup that cheers. Seeeeyaa
78

Flower of Scotland,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 15:42:19
#71 Kimba..... May I suggest that you also should go for the cup that cheers,as you appear to be sinking fast and making a complete fool of yourself. There is no fool like an English fool!
79

Saul Tyre,

Germany 17/04/2008 15:45:09
#77
The time honoured British strategy is to take over part of a foreign country, occupy that part with their own people and then claim they would be prepared to give it back if only the majority of the people OF THAT PART of the country voted for it. Gibraltar is a further example. It's called theft.

80

911 was an inside job,

17/04/2008 15:58:49
Pot, kettle...
81

Allan(handofgod137),

17/04/2008 16:03:18
#40, Don't need to, I already live in Scotland.
82

Saul Tyre,

Germany 17/04/2008 16:03:37
#73

"...wasnae scotland voted one of the most obese countries in europe!"

I can't for the life of me remember a ballot being held throughout Europe to let people VOTE on the country with the most fatties.
83

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 17/04/2008 16:25:30
Brown: "The Prime Minister, in his most outspoken comments on the chaos enveloping the African country, in effect accused Mr Mugabe of being prepared to break the law to stay in office."

What about breaking the law to start a war, Gordon?
84

kimba,

17/04/2008 16:28:21
82.This may jog your memory-
Printable version
Obesity statistics 'frightening'
Overweight family
Ms Brankin described the issue as "a health time bomb"
The Scottish Executive has pledged to step up its fight against childhood obesity following the publication of "truly frightening" statistics.

Figures show that one in five children in Scotland aged 12 is clinically obese.
85

Perched, Smiling,

on the verge of an new nation 17/04/2008 16:28:22
Quick Question folks -

It has taken our Labour overlords in Westminster a matter of weeks to condemn the 'rigged' election in Zimbabwe....

Why did it take nearly 6 weeks, and NO condemnation, when it came to mentioning the election in Florida back in 2001?

Just wondering....
86

Saul Tyre,

Germany 17/04/2008 16:36:01
#84
So there wasn't a vote then...
87

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 17/04/2008 16:51:15
Hello Flower. (Nos. 62, 68, 77 & 78) The name's Flub....James Flub! Not Blub, and I'm not English - I'm Scots (half Canadian actually).

Why are you introducing irrelevant and inaccurate Irish Republican bigotry onto a discussion post about African - British electoral Politics?

Your romanticised recollection of Irish history (I think I can guess where it was nurtured)is completely at odds with the reality. Northern Ireland was not stolen.

When what is now the republic decided to secede from the UK, and become again a vassal state of the RC Church (Ireland has never been independent) the incoming governance could not, or would not, guarantee the rights and liberties of a minority, concentrated in the north part of the island, therefore a settlement was AGREED to partition the country.

The subsequent decades of racist Irish aggression have forced Britain to retain that part of the island within the UK for the protection of its citizens. Peoples have the right to self determination you know, even British Protestants.

The aggression and hatred even went as far as De Valera's Government opening Irish harbours to Nazi naval vessels during WW2, and a subsequent refusal to accept these same six counties into the new republic when offered by Churchill, in exchange for an agreement to stop this practice.

These vessels then, of course, went on to wreak havoc with the Atlantic convoys for the duration. Fascists really know how to make a point of principle, don't they?

So, leave your ridiculous fulminations for the appropriate forums, and as I said earlier, you're an asrehloe.

Pip, pip!
88

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit, Scotlnd 17/04/2008 16:51:32
#73 Kimba,

I'm not an arrogant nitwit and I hesitate to call you one but the facts are on my side. England has NO nuclear weapons based in any part of it. Everything has long since been decommissioned leaving only the Trident deterrent and all of that is based in Scotland. http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Uk/UKArsenalRecent.html
89

kimba,

17/04/2008 16:56:46
88. SORRY, but you are WRONG yet again- Lakenheath (England). Lakenheath is a US airforce base in England. It is used to store up to 110 tactical nuclear weapons
90

Saul Tyre,

Germany 17/04/2008 16:59:05
#87 FLUB wrote:

"...could not, or would not, guarantee the rights and liberties of a minority, concentrated in the north part of the island,..."

Now explain to us all how that minority got there (or, more to the point, who sent them and why).
91

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit, Scotland 17/04/2008 17:08:26
#88 Sorry but it is you who is wrong. Lakenheath does indeed house tatical nuclear weapons but they are the property of the US and under their total independent control.
92

Resolutions,

17/04/2008 17:21:02
With all the elections here that never were, and the questionable results, and the moving of goalposts and so on, I am at a loss to recall ONE election which actually took place, where we were still waiting for results to be declared, the best part of 3- yes that is THREE weeks- later!

Whatever the shortcomings and there are quite a few, have we been in the situation where inflation was in the millions, where our homes were burnt, where we were beaten up, where we had to search around for a loaf of bread and spend weeks wages on it, where there was no water in the tap(or well) and no cooking oil? If so I must've missed it.

We should be thankful that we have a fairly reasonable system here and support the folk of Zimbabwe in their plight. The longer it takes for 'results' to be declared, the less likely they are to be true.Even more so in that international monitors were not permitted there in the first place.If it was fair, why did they need to hide what was happening? It seems odd that so many folk on here, seem unable to comprehend that and bicker about relatively 'minor' things which it is up to us to rectify.

Surely we can add our voices/posts to demand that the results are published honestly and that the people's will is honoured? And condemn the violence, intimidation and what not which is going on.

And thank our lucky stars that it is not us, otherwise we would not be posting at all.
93

kimba,

17/04/2008 17:26:33
91. But you did not say that,you said " nowhere in England has nuclear weapons" and you were WRONG!
94

Media 1,

cape town 17/04/2008 17:33:55
I am astounded to read that some people are comparing Brown to Mugabe. I find such comments to be absolutely derisory and utterly childish.
Mugabe is a cold blooded killer!
95

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit, Scotland 17/04/2008 17:44:03
#93 There is a good job for you editing the Pedant's Corner in Private Eye magazine. Quite how you define a foreign nation's private nuclear arsenal as being of any use to the English is a bit beyond me. Also, if you'll allow me to be a touch pedantic myself, I'll note that the USAF has always refused to confirm or deny that nukes are based at Lakenheath so we'll probably never know who is technically right or wrong with this wee bit of hair splitting.
96

Resolutions,

17/04/2008 18:02:18
#93 Kimba #95 Mikko

Suggest you give it a rest - this has NOTHING to do with the debate here and shows you both - and a few more - as being downright childish and unable to see even the end of you own noses.

Enough is enough.
97

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 17/04/2008 18:09:09
Saul (#90) I fail to see the relevance of that request, but here goes...

Their ancestors migrated, though some were transported during the 14th/15th. century, in order to protect this island's social upheaval during the Protestant reformation when better, more libertarian societies were being developed in England and Scotland.

It was under direct threat from the RC monarchies throughout Europe and Ireland formed a 'back door' means by which those RC monarchies, in thrall to the Papacy, could potentially invade and reestablish their spiritual stranglehold on this country.

Does that therefore excuse racist aggression during the 20th. century toward their descendants?

Is it only certain types of people who are required to atone for eternity because of the perceived misdeeds of their ancestors being judged centuries later?

We really should set up another thread for this one, eh? Anyway Mrs. Flub has just come back from her sister's so I'll need to go now. Pip, pip.